Not wanting to be found
 

Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.

Its much easier to camp out in the park as a homeless person across the
street from the police station. They would never look there. Or, go buy
a car out of the paper with ligit bill of sale on Friday. In 36 hrs,
you could be at the Canada or Mexico border. Go camping. Now if your
just getting away from the wife, I understand. Sailing sounds good.
wrote:
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting
to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found
for
a long time.

I assume it's a small sailboat and doesn't carry a radar reflector.

About 15 minutes, if the time and point of depatrure are known. There would
be several radars and patrol planes tracking his every move to see if he
turned towards Cuba.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

wrote in message
ups.com...
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.

Gee, that boy of yours must be starting to REALLY tick you off G

On 13 Jan 2005 12:09:48 -0800, wrote:

Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.

On 13 Jan 2005 12:09:48 -0800, wrote:

Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.


You might try this site for a possible method:

http://webster.fhs-hagenberg.ac.at/s...ingoncloaking/

;-)

Jack

On 13 Jan 2005 12:09:48 -0800, wrote:

Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.

Fill the boat with cocaine. We seem to have a hard time finding that
stuff.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:31:15 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:

I assume it's a small sailboat and doesn't carry a radar reflector.

==================================================

I don't think that matters anymore with a decent modern radar unit.
My new 4 KW Furuno routinely picks up small sailboats that are 4 or 5
miles away. Parts of the Gulf are just littered with crab and shrimp
boats however and you'd blend in with them on the radar. With your
sails down you'd be difficult to spot by eye from more than 2 or 3
miles away.

Rosalie B. wrote:
wrote:

Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him.

This depends entirely on who is looking. If the CG wants to find
you,
they will track you from the beginning of the trip and the color of
the boat or whatever won't make any difference.

If the person can avoid being a person of interest to homeland
security or the CG so that neither of them has an interest in looking
for the person, then there's no need to take any special precautions
.
I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.

Probably the best thing to do would be to set off as if it was an
ordinary trip, say from Texas to Pensacola on the ICW, and file a
float plan with someone to that effect. Tell them if you don't turn
up in Pensacola in 2 weeks, to start to look. Then go the other
direction.

How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples

Why is the SAR looking for him?

until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found
for
a long time.

grandma Rosalie

Unfortunately, my life is not interesting enough for anybody to look
for me. The question is purely hypothetical as I am wondering if Low
Tech could win over High Tech. Concerning tracking by the CG, how
would the CG find him in the first place if all they knew was that he
had departed sometime in th elast 36 hours from a certain port? They
might use radar but I understand that many small sailboats show up
poorly on Radar. They might use visual search methods but that should
be easy to defeat. Specifically, how would the CG find him?
Concerning radar, I admit my ignorance of anything but theoretical
concepts as I have never used one. Would removal of metal lifelines
reduce the radar cross section? Removing the mast would be difficult
but I think it produces a minimal return anyway being rounded. Would
covering the engine with a "space blanket" (aluminized mylar) reduce
its radar cross section?

In the mid -80s, i worked for a defense contractor. We heard budget
cuts were coming and were instructed to be on the lookout for civilian
applications of our work. One guy whose specialty was figuring ways to
reduce radar cross sections of things moaned to me that no civilian
would be interested in his work. I told him that if he could figger a
way to really reduce the radar cross section of a DC-3, I was sure I
could find some Columbian "Entrpreneurs" who would pay a lot for it.
He gave me a blank look at first and then said "Thats not funny". I
thought it was.

Did someone sell Michael Jackson a sailboat?

wrote:
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.

Hahaha... what are you doing.. smuggling drugz..? They're the only people in that region of water
that don't really want to be found.

"Hypothetically" you'd have to take under consideration all types of radar (military ones pick out
small boats without much problem due to the different wavelengths of radar they use), SAR (Synthetic
Aperature Radar), infrared heat signature (hot engines flare brightly on sensor displays against the
cold black ocean).

Emission Control (EMCON) you'd have to ensure that you do not transmit anything by radio, turn off
your radar, cell phone, etc.

Since stealth technology is generally priced out of range for the average person, it helps by
removing the radar reflector. Greenpeace did this in the early 1980's and while keeping radio
silent, managed to sneak up and penetrate over 350 km into a restricted region in the south Pacific
that the French used to test nuclear bombs. They got close enough to the test site to see the bomb
suspended under the balloon. The moment they hoisted their reflector, their presence was detected
and the French navy reacted fast (and brutally).

I'm not sure how to use visual camoflauge.. perhaps to reduce visual detection by other ships would
be to paint the hull and sails a dull light gray. The "go-fasts" that regularly run that region are
painted black or dark green and operated at night for the most part. They use speed as their
primary way of avoiding interception.

Sail due east for a while then angle south. Unfortunately, OTHR (over the horizon radar) which can
accurately measure wave height and direction accurately works pretty well at detecting vessels of
around 10 metres in length and larger from over a thousand miles regardless of the hull material.
And there are at least two stations that provide blanket coverage of that particular region.

Hopefully a random search by regular drug interdiction patrol units in the south Gulf area won't
stumble upon the person. That is one of the most heavily surveilled areas of the USA and it
surprises me that people manage to get thru undetected. (actually many are detected but they are
unable to intercept). In the end, a certain amount of luck is required. And hopefully, no one will
call in a sighting when an "APB" goes out for such-and-such person and a sailboat matching some
description.

wrote
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him.

I can't believe anyone is even responding to this wacko.

"D.B. Cooper" wrote in message
news:Qf0Gd.82025$6l.53359@pd7tw2no...
Hahaha... what are you doing.. smuggling drugz..? They're the only people
in that region of water
that don't really want to be found.

"Hypothetically" you'd have to take under consideration all types of radar
(military ones pick out
small boats without much problem due to the different wavelengths of radar
they use), SAR (Synthetic
Aperature Radar), infrared heat signature (hot engines flare brightly on
sensor displays against the
cold black ocean).

Emission Control (EMCON) you'd have to ensure that you do not transmit
anything by radio, turn off
your radar, cell phone, etc.

Since stealth technology is generally priced out of range for the average
person, it helps by
removing the radar reflector. Greenpeace did this in the early 1980's and
while keeping radio
silent, managed to sneak up and penetrate over 350 km into a restricted
region in the south Pacific
that the French used to test nuclear bombs. They got close enough to the
test site to see the bomb
suspended under the balloon. The moment they hoisted their reflector,
their presence was detected
and the French navy reacted fast (and brutally).

I'm not sure how to use visual camoflauge.. perhaps to reduce visual
detection by other ships would
be to paint the hull and sails a dull light gray. The "go-fasts" that
regularly run that region are
painted black or dark green and operated at night for the most part. They
use speed as their
primary way of avoiding interception.

Sail due east for a while then angle south. Unfortunately, OTHR (over the
horizon radar) which can
accurately measure wave height and direction accurately works pretty well
at detecting vessels of
around 10 metres in length and larger from over a thousand miles
regardless of the hull material.
And there are at least two stations that provide blanket coverage of that
particular region.

Hopefully a random search by regular drug interdiction patrol units in the
south Gulf area won't
stumble upon the person. That is one of the most heavily surveilled areas
of the USA and it
surprises me that people manage to get thru undetected. (actually many
are detected but they are
unable to intercept). In the end, a certain amount of luck is required.
And hopefully, no one will
call in a sighting when an "APB" goes out for such-and-such person and a
sailboat matching some
description.

wrote
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him.

Doug Dotson wrote:
I can't believe anyone is even responding to this wacko.

"D.B. Cooper" wrote in message
news:Qf0Gd.82025$6l.53359@pd7tw2no...
Hahaha... what are you doing.. smuggling drugz..? They're the only
people
in that region of water
that don't really want to be found.

"Hypothetically" you'd have to take under consideration all types
of radar
(military ones pick out
small boats without much problem due to the different wavelengths
of radar
they use), SAR (Synthetic
Aperature Radar), infrared heat signature (hot engines flare
brightly on
sensor displays against the
cold black ocean).

Emission Control (EMCON) you'd have to ensure that you do not
transmit
anything by radio, turn off
your radar, cell phone, etc.

Since stealth technology is generally priced out of range for the
average
person, it helps by
removing the radar reflector. Greenpeace did this in the early
1980's and
while keeping radio
silent, managed to sneak up and penetrate over 350 km into a
restricted
region in the south Pacific
that the French used to test nuclear bombs. They got close enough
to the
test site to see the bomb
suspended under the balloon. The moment they hoisted their
reflector,
their presence was detected
and the French navy reacted fast (and brutally).

I'm not sure how to use visual camoflauge.. perhaps to reduce
visual
detection by other ships would
be to paint the hull and sails a dull light gray. The "go-fasts"
that
regularly run that region are
painted black or dark green and operated at night for the most
part. They
use speed as their
primary way of avoiding interception.

Sail due east for a while then angle south. Unfortunately, OTHR
(over the
horizon radar) which can
accurately measure wave height and direction accurately works
pretty well
at detecting vessels of
around 10 metres in length and larger from over a thousand miles
regardless of the hull material.
And there are at least two stations that provide blanket coverage
of that
particular region.

Hopefully a random search by regular drug interdiction patrol units
in the
south Gulf area won't
stumble upon the person. That is one of the most heavily
surveilled areas
of the USA and it
surprises me that people manage to get thru undetected. (actually
many
are detected but they are
unable to intercept). In the end, a certain amount of luck is
required.
And hopefully, no one will
call in a sighting when an "APB" goes out for such-and-such person
and a
sailboat matching some
description.

wrote
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36
hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast,
how
difficult would it be to find him.



THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez. Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions. Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much? I assume
the metal shrouds produce significant radar return so they are a
problem unless he somehow replaced them. We can assume that he either
doesnt run his engine or that he floods his cockpit partway to hide the
engine IR signature.
Go fast boats are probably easier to see than a small sailboat as their
power output is so high.

I guess that I am really just a high tech Luddite.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Dotson wrote:
I can't believe anyone is even responding to this wacko.

"D.B. Cooper" wrote in message
news:Qf0Gd.82025$6l.53359@pd7tw2no...
Hahaha... what are you doing.. smuggling drugz..? They're the only
people
in that region of water
that don't really want to be found.

"Hypothetically" you'd have to take under consideration all types
of radar
(military ones pick out
small boats without much problem due to the different wavelengths
of radar
they use), SAR (Synthetic
Aperature Radar), infrared heat signature (hot engines flare
brightly on
sensor displays against the
cold black ocean).

Emission Control (EMCON) you'd have to ensure that you do not
transmit
anything by radio, turn off
your radar, cell phone, etc.

Since stealth technology is generally priced out of range for the
average
person, it helps by
removing the radar reflector. Greenpeace did this in the early
1980's and
while keeping radio
silent, managed to sneak up and penetrate over 350 km into a
restricted
region in the south Pacific
that the French used to test nuclear bombs. They got close enough
to the
test site to see the bomb
suspended under the balloon. The moment they hoisted their
reflector,
their presence was detected
and the French navy reacted fast (and brutally).

I'm not sure how to use visual camoflauge.. perhaps to reduce
visual
detection by other ships would
be to paint the hull and sails a dull light gray. The "go-fasts"
that
regularly run that region are
painted black or dark green and operated at night for the most
part. They
use speed as their
primary way of avoiding interception.

Sail due east for a while then angle south. Unfortunately, OTHR
(over the
horizon radar) which can
accurately measure wave height and direction accurately works
pretty well
at detecting vessels of
around 10 metres in length and larger from over a thousand miles
regardless of the hull material.
And there are at least two stations that provide blanket coverage
of that
particular region.

Hopefully a random search by regular drug interdiction patrol units
in the
south Gulf area won't
stumble upon the person. That is one of the most heavily
surveilled areas
of the USA and it
surprises me that people manage to get thru undetected. (actually
many
are detected but they are
unable to intercept). In the end, a certain amount of luck is
required.
And hopefully, no one will
call in a sighting when an "APB" goes out for such-and-such person
and a
sailboat matching some
description.

wrote
Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36
hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast,
how
difficult would it be to find him.



THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

You'd better. I hope that the Homeland Security and the FBI see it that
way. I happen to know that they monitor alot of these newsgroups
including this one.

Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions.

Elegant solutions to not being found? To what end?

Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much?

Why? Most folks waht their boat to be visable. What is your point?

I assume
the metal shrouds produce significant radar return so they are a
problem unless he somehow replaced them.

Actually, shrouds and masts produce very poor returns. They tend to
disperse the radar signal. Hence the use of radar reflectors.

We can assume that he either
doesnt run his engine or that he floods his cockpit partway to hide the
engine IR signature.

Just fill the cockpit with the drugs.

Go fast boats are probably easier to see than a small sailboat as their
power output is so high.

I guess. So what are you trying to run away from?

dbohara,
This is funny, if you used the space blanket with the reflective side
out you'd light up like a bulb on the radar screen. I believe stealth
technology is based on absorbing the energy and then having acute angles
on the surface so the reflection that is left is diverted away. Floods
his cockpit? I don't think the engines would like this. The solution is
LEAD!!! Construct the whole boat of LEAD!!! :-)
Paul

wrote:
snipped
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez. Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions. Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much? I assume
the metal shrouds produce significant radar return so they are a
problem unless he somehow replaced them. We can assume that he either
doesnt run his engine or that he floods his cockpit partway to hide the
engine IR signature.
Go fast boats are probably easier to see than a small sailboat as their
power output is so high.

On 15 Jan 2005 08:57:46 -0800, wrote:

////
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez. Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions. Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much?

This answer is PURELY HYPOTHETIC.

Covering a hull with aluminum foil would increase its radar
cross-section from quite a lot to an awful lot.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Doug,
I'm sorry but I find this statement funny. I doubt the FBI has the
stomach to monitor this newsgroup. I wouldn't take long to figure out it
was a waste of their time.
Paul

Doug Dotson wrote:
snipped
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.


You'd better. I hope that the Homeland Security and the FBI see it that
way. I happen to know that they monitor alot of these newsgroups
including this one.
snipped

Apparently they either have an interest or too much time on their
hands. But then again, when has any government organization had any
adversion to wasting time :)



"Paul Schilter" wrote in message
...

Doug,
I'm sorry but I find this statement funny. I doubt the FBI has the stomach
to monitor this newsgroup. I wouldn't take long to figure out it was a
waste of their time.
Paul

Doug Dotson wrote:
snipped
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.


You'd better. I hope that the Homeland Security and the FBI see it that
way. I happen to know that they monitor alot of these newsgroups
including this one.
snipped

Why would the engines care about flooding the cockpit?

"Paul Schilter" wrote in message
...

dbohara,
This is funny, if you used the space blanket with the reflective side out
you'd light up like a bulb on the radar screen. I believe stealth
technology is based on absorbing the energy and then having acute angles
on the surface so the reflection that is left is diverted away. Floods his
cockpit? I don't think the engines would like this. The solution is
LEAD!!! Construct the whole boat of LEAD!!! :-)
Paul

wrote:
snipped
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez. Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions. Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much? I assume
the metal shrouds produce significant radar return so they are a
problem unless he somehow replaced them. We can assume that he either
doesnt run his engine or that he floods his cockpit partway to hide the
engine IR signature.
Go fast boats are probably easier to see than a small sailboat as their
power output is so high.

wrote:
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

I'm bored enough on a Saturday night to get into this one...:)

IMO, how easy it would or wouldn't be to just disappear depends on the
circumstances. If you're a fugitive being sought, it might not be that
easy...but if you're someone who just wants to escape his life, it
should be very easy. Just buy a boat without telling anyone...tell your
friends and family that you have to go to Chicago, St, Louis,
Paris--anywhere but out to sea--for a week...set sail instead...giving
you at least a week's head start in a direction no one would ever look
in...and even when they do think of checking on your boat--the one
everyone knows you own--it'll still be in her slip. You could be
anywhere in the world before anyone figured out how or when you left, or
which direction to look. By then you've grown a beard, dyed your hair,
lost 20 lbs...the only thing that might give away your location is any
record of the places in which you've had to show your passport. But if
you're REALLY determined to disappear, it's not that hard these days to
get a new passport under a new name. Unless you're a fugitive, no one
would ever have any reason to question its legitimacy.

The only real issue would be money...but anyone planning such a move
should be smart enough to quietly start transferring funds to an
offshore account in an untraceable manner (convert to cash, deposit only
that cash to offshore account) months or even years ahead of time.

IOW, anyone who really wants to disappear can do it with some planning.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

It is really quite simple and low-tech. You can guarantee you will not
be found only if you are not there!

Go out, sink the boat, come back in, and go anywhere but where they will
be searching for you.

Or, go out, turn around, and return to port well before the 36 hours.
Eventually the boat will be found, but that will only mean that at some
point in time you were somewhere in the world. Not very much to go on.

If you have trouble with this answer, I think you have some other
agenda. True, someone might want to disappear. But you've posed a
problem in which someone wants to disappear using an empty gum wrapper,
yesterday's newspaper, and a half-eaten bagel on a day when the
temperature is over 72 degrees! And then you want to discuss at length
the reflective properties of foil-backed gum wrappers?

If your question were strictly technical, the "disappearing" scenario
would be superfluous since you could just ask about visual and radar
detection of various hull signatures.
















Peggie Hall wrote in
:

wrote:
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

I'm bored enough on a Saturday night to get into this one...:)

IMO, how easy it would or wouldn't be to just disappear depends on the
circumstances. If you're a fugitive being sought, it might not be
that easy...but if you're someone who just wants to escape his life,
it should be very easy. Just buy a boat without telling anyone...tell
your friends and family that you have to go to Chicago, St, Louis,
Paris--anywhere but out to sea--for a week...set sail instead...giving
you at least a week's head start in a direction no one would ever look
in...and even when they do think of checking on your boat--the one
everyone knows you own--it'll still be in her slip. You could be
anywhere in the world before anyone figured out how or when you left,
or which direction to look. By then you've grown a beard, dyed your
hair, lost 20 lbs...the only thing that might give away your location
is any record of the places in which you've had to show your passport.
But if you're REALLY determined to disappear, it's not that hard these
days to get a new passport under a new name. Unless you're a fugitive,
no one would ever have any reason to question its legitimacy.

The only real issue would be money...but anyone planning such a move
should be smart enough to quietly start transferring funds to an
offshore account in an untraceable manner (convert to cash, deposit
only that cash to offshore account) months or even years ahead of
time.

IOW, anyone who really wants to disappear can do it with some
planning.




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WaIIy wrote:

Any cash withdrawal of $10,000 or more gets reported to the federal
government.

If I recall correctly, a few years ago there was some deal to report
"unusual activity" of anyone's account to the feds.

ahh...the land of the free!

Aha!!!!!!! Who were you in your other life? Jimmy Hoffa? ;)
G

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
wrote:
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

I'm bored enough on a Saturday night to get into this one...:)

IMO, how easy it would or wouldn't be to just disappear depends on the
circumstances. If you're a fugitive being sought, it might not be that
easy...but if you're someone who just wants to escape his life, it
should be very easy. Just buy a boat without telling anyone...tell your
friends and family that you have to go to Chicago, St, Louis,
Paris--anywhere but out to sea--for a week...set sail instead...giving
you at least a week's head start in a direction no one would ever look
in...and even when they do think of checking on your boat--the one
everyone knows you own--it'll still be in her slip. You could be
anywhere in the world before anyone figured out how or when you left, or
which direction to look. By then you've grown a beard, dyed your hair,
lost 20 lbs...the only thing that might give away your location is any
record of the places in which you've had to show your passport. But if
you're REALLY determined to disappear, it's not that hard these days to
get a new passport under a new name. Unless you're a fugitive, no one
would ever have any reason to question its legitimacy.

The only real issue would be money...but anyone planning such a move
should be smart enough to quietly start transferring funds to an
offshore account in an untraceable manner (convert to cash, deposit only
that cash to offshore account) months or even years ahead of time.

IOW, anyone who really wants to disappear can do it with some planning.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

Doug,
Yeah you do have a point there. :-)
Paul


Doug Dotson wrote:
Apparently they either have an interest or too much time on their
hands. But then again, when has any government organization had any
adversion to wasting time :)



"Paul Schilter" wrote in message
...

Doug,
I'm sorry but I find this statement funny. I doubt the FBI has the stomach
to monitor this newsgroup. I wouldn't take long to figure out it was a
waste of their time.
Paul

Doug Dotson wrote:
snipped

THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.


You'd better. I hope that the Homeland Security and the FBI see it that
way. I happen to know that they monitor alot of these newsgroups
including this one.

snipped

Doug,
Aren't most cockpits self bailing? So in order to flood the cockpit
wouldn't you have to flood the engine room? Which would amount to
sinking the boat. I speaking of a power boat.
Paul


Doug Dotson wrote:
Why would the engines care about flooding the cockpit?

"Paul Schilter" wrote in message
...

dbohara,
This is funny, if you used the space blanket with the reflective side out
you'd light up like a bulb on the radar screen. I believe stealth
technology is based on absorbing the energy and then having acute angles
on the surface so the reflection that is left is diverted away. Floods his
cockpit? I don't think the engines would like this. The solution is
LEAD!!! Construct the whole boat of LEAD!!! :-)
Paul

wrote:
snipped

THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez. Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions. Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much? I assume
the metal shrouds produce significant radar return so they are a
problem unless he somehow replaced them. We can assume that he either
doesnt run his engine or that he floods his cockpit partway to hide the
engine IR signature.
Go fast boats are probably easier to see than a small sailboat as their
power output is so high.

I though the OP was referring to a sailboat. One could
close the scuppers and flood the cockpit, but I don;t know what
it would accomplish. Water would slosh around and enter via cockpit lockers.
I don't know, this thread is silly anyway.

Doug
s/v CAllista

"Paul Schilter" wrote in message
...
Doug,
Aren't most cockpits self bailing? So in order to flood the cockpit
wouldn't you have to flood the engine room? Which would amount to sinking
the boat. I speaking of a power boat.
Paul


Doug Dotson wrote:
Why would the engines care about flooding the cockpit?

"Paul Schilter" wrote in message
...

dbohara,
This is funny, if you used the space blanket with the reflective side out
you'd light up like a bulb on the radar screen. I believe stealth
technology is based on absorbing the energy and then having acute angles
on the surface so the reflection that is left is diverted away. Floods
his cockpit? I don't think the engines would like this. The solution is
LEAD!!! Construct the whole boat of LEAD!!! :-)
Paul

wrote:
snipped

THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez. Really,
all this is about is my belief that some people are so reliant on high
tech stuff that they forget about elegant low tech solutions. Would
covering the entire boat with an aluminized "space blanket" with no
exposed edges or folds reduce the radar cross section much? I assume
the metal shrouds produce significant radar return so they are a
problem unless he somehow replaced them. We can assume that he either
doesnt run his engine or that he floods his cockpit partway to hide the
engine IR signature.
Go fast boats are probably easier to see than a small sailboat as their
power output is so high.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:49:06 -0500,
Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Dotson wrote:

I guess. So what are you trying to run away from?



The upcoming draft?

Nah, the Democrat's who proposed restarting the draft were defeated.


--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
We aim to please. Ourselves, mostly, but we do aim to please.
Anthony DeBoer

, it's not that hard these days to
get a new passport under a new name. Unless you're a fugitive, no one
would ever have any reason to question its legitimacy.

Actually it is getting much harder. Pressure is on for nations to use
barcoding and other electronic means of imprinting on passports for
recording, tabulating, and verifying entry and exit records. The phony
document that fools an inspectors eyes won't fool the computers that
examine it. Many countries are instituting policies of requiring visa's
for people coming from nations that will not have have such fraud
proofed passports. And then there's the coming biometric data
requirements...

OK, I confess, I am really trying to hide the nuke I built from
hundreds of old smoke detectors and parts from a '72 Camaro.
The Purpose of flooding the cockpit while running the engine is to put
a low temp high mass object 'tween you and any IR detector.
As far as the aluminized space blanket for Radar, generally, it is
edges and corners that produce the large radar return. 90 degree
angles particularly make good returns which is why a tiny radar
refelctor will give a much better return than most sailboats. A very
large sphere (the size of your boat) will give less return than a 10"
corner reflector. The purpose of the space blanket is to mask the
edges and corners from things like the engine, the toerail,
chainplates, etc. A space blanket with no sharp edges covering the
sailboat should give less return than your average sailboat. I once
took a course in radar theory but I know nothing of ANY practical
application.

Osama bin DB Cooper OHara

Peggie Hall wrote:
wrote:
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

I'm bored enough on a Saturday night to get into this one...:)

IMO, how easy it would or wouldn't be to just disappear depends on
the
circumstances. If you're a fugitive being sought, it might not be
that
easy...but if you're someone who just wants to escape his life, it
should be very easy. Just buy a boat without telling anyone...tell
your
friends and family that you have to go to Chicago, St, Louis,
Paris--anywhere but out to sea--for a week...set sail
instead...giving
you at least a week's head start in a direction no one would ever
look
in...and even when they do think of checking on your boat--the one
everyone knows you own--it'll still be in her slip. You could be
anywhere in the world before anyone figured out how or when you left,
or
which direction to look. By then you've grown a beard, dyed your
hair,
lost 20 lbs...the only thing that might give away your location is
any
record of the places in which you've had to show your passport. But
if
you're REALLY determined to disappear, it's not that hard these days
to
get a new passport under a new name. Unless you're a fugitive, no one

would ever have any reason to question its legitimacy.

The only real issue would be money...but anyone planning such a move
should be smart enough to quietly start transferring funds to an
offshore account in an untraceable manner (convert to cash, deposit
only
that cash to offshore account) months or even years ahead of time.

IOW, anyone who really wants to disappear can do it with some
planning.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems
and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:37:02 GMT, Jim wrote:

Did someone sell Michael Jackson a sailboat?

No, it was actually a bumboat.

R.

Peggie, this may be the first post I've ever seen from you that didn't
concern some sort of sea-going toilet...G

You actually hit upon the best solution: hide in plain sight. A touch
of plastic surgery, an industrial "accident" that obscures your
fingerprints, a few grand for the "pro" falsified documents, and then
hide in plain sight. The boat itself should be a Catalina 30...they
are common as muck as my British relatives say.

You ARE Captain Ron, sailing the "Marguritaville" to USVIs after a
messy divorce.

Good grief, talk about safety in numbers....

R.


On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 06:07:30 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

wrote:
THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

I'm bored enough on a Saturday night to get into this one...:)

IMO, how easy it would or wouldn't be to just disappear depends on the
circumstances. If you're a fugitive being sought, it might not be that
easy...but if you're someone who just wants to escape his life, it
should be very easy. Just buy a boat without telling anyone...tell your
friends and family that you have to go to Chicago, St, Louis,
Paris--anywhere but out to sea--for a week...set sail instead...giving
you at least a week's head start in a direction no one would ever look
in...and even when they do think of checking on your boat--the one
everyone knows you own--it'll still be in her slip. You could be
anywhere in the world before anyone figured out how or when you left, or
which direction to look. By then you've grown a beard, dyed your hair,
lost 20 lbs...the only thing that might give away your location is any
record of the places in which you've had to show your passport. But if
you're REALLY determined to disappear, it's not that hard these days to
get a new passport under a new name. Unless you're a fugitive, no one
would ever have any reason to question its legitimacy.

The only real issue would be money...but anyone planning such a move
should be smart enough to quietly start transferring funds to an
offshore account in an untraceable manner (convert to cash, deposit only
that cash to offshore account) months or even years ahead of time.

IOW, anyone who really wants to disappear can do it with some planning.

In article . com,
says...


Here is a hypothetical question:

If somebody on a sailboat did NOT want to be found and had a 36 hour
head start leaving someplace like say the N. Florida Gulf coast, how
difficult would it be to find him. I assume the sailor not wanting to
be found could take some measures such as painting his boat a grey
color to match the water or even paint his sails, not use lights at
night, etc. What else can you think of to minimize his chances of
being found.
How difficult would it be in this case for conventional SAR to find
him? Remember, every 36 hours, the necesary search area quadruples
until after a few days it covers the entire Gulf of Mexico and its
shoreline.
I think it might be possible for such a sailor to elude being found for
a long time.

Some years ago there was a cruise ship high jacked in the weastern
Atlantic. It took days before the authoritries could find it. Anyone
remember that one?

In article ,
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom says...


I can't believe anyone is even responding to this wacko.

Oh come on! It's an interesting exercise.

In article ,
dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom says...


THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. I have nothing to hide, jeez.

You'd better. I hope that the Homeland Security and the FBI see it that
way. I happen to know that they monitor alot of these newsgroups
including this one.

Oh. You are one of THOSE people.