Since I have had my 14 yr old son with me during most of my
"Interrupted Cruise" (whereby I cruise for a few days then go back to
work slowly getting my boat from NW FL to the Bahamas), I have been
trying to give him some educatin in that time. Of course he reads a
lot but its mostly thriller mystery novels of doubtful value so here
are a few things I have done.

I taught him about Lat. and Lon. and made him determine the positions
of various places on a globe, a flat map and local charts. Made him
plot our position based on GPS coords. Had him determine time to reach
a particular position, etc.

One question was:

A vessel is taking on water at a rate of 100 gal/hour faster than it
can be pumped out. The captain reports his position to the coast guard
as 28 deg. 32.5 min N. 83 deg. 47.6 min. W. The coast guard sends a
vessel with a pump capable of pumping at a rate of 500 gal/hour from
Tarpon Springs at a maximum speed of 20 kts. The sinking vesseels
capt. knows that he will sink after taking on 7000 lbs. of water.
Will the vessel sink before the coast guard arrives? SHOW YOUR WORK.

I also am having him read the first Hornblower novel as both
literature, geography and history. Of course, I re-read it myself and
then ask written questions.

I know these are trivial questions but although I think his public
school education has been fairly good, it never seems to directly
influence his daily life so I want some practical knowledge that will
also enable him to get good conceptual pictures of concepts.
I'd appreciate comments from educators.

On 10 Jan 2005 09:24:39 -0800, wrote:

A vessel is taking on water at a rate of 100 gal/hour faster than it
can be pumped out. The captain reports his position to the coast guard
as 28 deg. 32.5 min N. 83 deg. 47.6 min. W. The coast guard sends a
vessel with a pump capable of pumping at a rate of 500 gal/hour from
Tarpon Springs at a maximum speed of 20 kts. The sinking vesseels
capt. knows that he will sink after taking on 7000 lbs. of water.
Will the vessel sink before the coast guard arrives? SHOW YOUR WORK.

Several reactions:

How fast is the sinking vessel moving and in which direction?

Won't the threat of sinking provide enough motivation to get one more
bucket per minute of bailing out of the crew?

Why is the coast guard sending such a lame little pump?

How does the captain know that he will sink after taking on 7000 lbs?
(That would be a pretty small boat -- remember that one of the Fastnet
lessons was that most skippers grossly underestimate the amount of
water their boat can take on and still stay safely afloat, even in
extreme conditions.)

and finally:

Why did you make the problem look so much like a hokey exam question
rather than a practical problem? If your son already has some problems
with motivation and authority, then dressing up a real, practical
learning opportunity in academic robes will almost certainly turn him
off.

You have a real boat right there. Make it a real example. "If that
fitting failed, then what would we do if we couldn't patch it? Could
we make it to shore from here before the boat sank?" Then work through
the process of estimating the rate of leakage, rate of progress,
reserve bouyancy, etc.

If you want to make it difficult, then account for reduced rate of
progress and increased pump flow rate as the boat fills with water.

Ryk

I was just thinking that 100 GPH is nothing for a scared sailor with a
bucket. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Ryk" wrote in message
...
On 10 Jan 2005 09:24:39 -0800, wrote:

A vessel is taking on water at a rate of 100 gal/hour faster than it
can be pumped out. The captain reports his position to the coast guard
as 28 deg. 32.5 min N. 83 deg. 47.6 min. W. The coast guard sends a
vessel with a pump capable of pumping at a rate of 500 gal/hour from
Tarpon Springs at a maximum speed of 20 kts. The sinking vesseels
capt. knows that he will sink after taking on 7000 lbs. of water.
Will the vessel sink before the coast guard arrives? SHOW YOUR WORK.

Several reactions:

How fast is the sinking vessel moving and in which direction?

Won't the threat of sinking provide enough motivation to get one more
bucket per minute of bailing out of the crew?

Why is the coast guard sending such a lame little pump?

How does the captain know that he will sink after taking on 7000 lbs?
(That would be a pretty small boat -- remember that one of the Fastnet
lessons was that most skippers grossly underestimate the amount of
water their boat can take on and still stay safely afloat, even in
extreme conditions.)

and finally:

Why did you make the problem look so much like a hokey exam question
rather than a practical problem? If your son already has some problems
with motivation and authority, then dressing up a real, practical
learning opportunity in academic robes will almost certainly turn him
off.

You have a real boat right there. Make it a real example. "If that
fitting failed, then what would we do if we couldn't patch it? Could
we make it to shore from here before the boat sank?" Then work through
the process of estimating the rate of leakage, rate of progress,
reserve bouyancy, etc.

If you want to make it difficult, then account for reduced rate of
progress and increased pump flow rate as the boat fills with water.

Ryk

On 10 Jan 2005 09:24:39 -0800, wrote:

I also am having him read the first Hornblower novel as both
literature, geography and history. Of course, I re-read it myself and
then ask written questions.

You should give him the Patrick O'Brien novels. There's a movie tie-in
and one of the leads has to have nautical terms explained to him all
the time: you guys can find the modern sailboat equivalents of
tall-ship nomenclature.

I think also (if you think he's ready) that you let him not only plot
a course, but steer it, allowing for set, drift, etc. and using
pilotage skills from common sense (bubbles say one knot, knotmeter
says three), and from the charts, sailing directions, cruising guides,
etc. Turn off the GPS and let him get from anchor to anchor. Let him
order you around when it comes to sail handling. At 14, this will
probably amuse him greatly, and you can pick an appropriate route
(safe or obvious maybe?) and just monitor his decisions. Don't comment
AT ALL unless he's sailing into danger: save it for a recap after you
get there.

That will probably really get him involved, if he's going to get
involved beyond the "party on a boat" level.

R.

I'm curious, what are you using as "reward" for him putting forth the effort
to do this work? At an early stage some sort of reward is usually required
to inspire a person to make the effort, otherwise it tends to seem like the
quizes are punishment.
Later, as their skills build, pride in their skills will tend to take over.
You will know when that happens when he starts to ask for more problems (or
takes on more responsabilities by himself) and stops caring about getting
the reward.
Growing up, my dad made sure that I knew he was proud of me and my work, and
one of the worse punishments I earned was no more than my dad telling me how
much I disapointed him, this was not a common thing (or it would not have
meant much) and that made it all the more shamefull.
There is an old saying that goes "it only thakes one O-sh*t to wipe out 1000
atta-boys".
With kids make sure that;
1. they earn the "atta-boy" (or it won't mean anything)
2. you give them lots of chances to earn those "atta-boys" (give them them
the chance to earn your praise)
3. make sure most corrections are not given in an O-sh*t manner (don't
treat every mistake as a major problem) and
4. never ever treat a mistake as being "the end of the line", no matter how
bad it is, work with them (never ever take their mistake away from them and
solve it yourself) and make them take a part in the solution.
This is much like dealing with women...only much easier (yes, I'm single).
:-)

Eric

In answer to several questions:

It has been many years since I did any teaching so it will take a few
days for me to get up to speed on it.

I used 7700 lbs of water because that is the empty displacement of my
boat.
The captain of the sinking vessel knew what displacement meant and
about concepts of buoyancy.
I inadvertantly gave a problem that was too easy,
I have no knowledge of coast guard pump capacities but only intended
for him to show he knew how to do such a problem.
I have read both the Patrick Obrien and CS Forester novels multiple
times and consider Obrien too verbose and detail oriented for a 14 yr
old.
I have him do some steering, actually I make my kids do a lot of
steering in and out of port although the auto-pilot does most of in
transit.
I make him do coastal piloting by taking bearing on markers and
markings LOPs on the chart.
The "Reward" thing really hasn't been an issue. We are both sure he
could pass the end of 8th grade tests now but I told him I wanted him
to be more educated than that. I explained that most of us are of
average intelligence and the only way we can do better than seriously
intelligent people is to simply know how to do more things than them
and to be more determined.

today's lesson:

This involved compass variation and I got out a globe and showed him
how it occurs because the magnetic and geographic poles are far
separated. I also explained that the magnetic poles wander to make
annual variation increases.

First, I had him do some conversions of a position like 23 deg. 30 min
to degrees and fractions of a degree (23.5 degrees).
Then, I explained that on short trips, I never have to account for
compass variation because it is only about 2 degrees in our local
waters. Then, I gave him a chart from 1983 of the NE Gulf of Mexico
with its variation and annual increase marked. I then asked him how
much I would be in error today if I steered strictly by compass from
Cedar key to our next destination; Tarpon Springs (about 60 miles).
The correct answer is about 5 miles if you account for the variation in
1983 and add the annual variation increase. He was surprised at this
and thought he had done something wrong at first so i guess he learned
something.

Tomorrow, I will ask "Why do we use only the latitude scale on a chart
to measure nautical miles? Why cant we use the longitude scale?" He
ought to be looking at the globe for this one.

I will also ask, how many right angles can a triangle on a plane have?
How many right angles can a triangle on the surface of a sphere have?

On 11 Jan 2005 09:55:37 -0800, wrote:

I used 7700 lbs of water because that is the empty displacement of my
boat.
The captain of the sinking vessel knew what displacement meant and
about concepts of buoyancy.

I suspect that perhaps the captain didn't fully understand the
concepts of displacement and bouyancy. An empty hull will displace its
own weight in seawater. Its ability to take on water without sinking
depends on the hull volume, which is related to the registry tonnage
through a complicated collection of rules that probably vary from
authority to authority.

For example, my boat displaces about 12000 lbs and has a net registry
tonnage of 9.45 tons. It also has a waterline "footprint" of about 200
square feet, so adding 12000 lbs of water would raise the waterline by
rather less than a foot, and I have much more freeboard than that.

Ryk

Eric,
Some great thoughts there. It sounds like you had a fine dad. I hope I can
do as well with my own 15 year old....
--Alan Gomes

"Eric Currier" wrote in message
news:65KEd.1245$sF5.1226@okepread06...
I'm curious, what are you using as "reward" for him putting forth the
effort
to do this work? At an early stage some sort of reward is usually required
to inspire a person to make the effort, otherwise it tends to seem like
the
quizes are punishment.
Later, as their skills build, pride in their skills will tend to take
over.
You will know when that happens when he starts to ask for more problems
(or
takes on more responsabilities by himself) and stops caring about getting
the reward.
Growing up, my dad made sure that I knew he was proud of me and my work,
and
one of the worse punishments I earned was no more than my dad telling me
how
much I disapointed him, this was not a common thing (or it would not have
meant much) and that made it all the more shamefull.
There is an old saying that goes "it only thakes one O-sh*t to wipe out
1000
atta-boys".
With kids make sure that;
1. they earn the "atta-boy" (or it won't mean anything)
2. you give them lots of chances to earn those "atta-boys" (give them them
the chance to earn your praise)
3. make sure most corrections are not given in an O-sh*t manner (don't
treat every mistake as a major problem) and
4. never ever treat a mistake as being "the end of the line", no matter
how
bad it is, work with them (never ever take their mistake away from them
and
solve it yourself) and make them take a part in the solution.
This is much like dealing with women...only much easier (yes, I'm single).
:-)

Eric