Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

I am planning to use the boat for coastal cruising
in southern California and occasional trips to the
channel islands, and maybe down to the Gulf of Mexico.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following
issues, and any ideas, recommendations or experiences
that might help me with the selection:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

- What are typical problem areas with these boats
that I should pay special attention to?

- Is there anyone in this group who lives in the
Marina del Rey area and who knows boats and would
be willing to look at one or two with me, or to
share thoughts over a glass of beer and tell me
what to look for?

- Inboard / Outboard: Any thoughts on inboard vs.
outboard? The inboards are mostly Atomic gas engines.

- Bottom paint: On almost all boats on the market
the bottom paint is due. On some it is overdue for a
few years. Is this a problem, i.e. is that likely to
turn a boat into a blister farm?

- Is it a cause for concern if there are a few smaller
blisters present on the boat?

- Survey: When I find a boat that I think would be a
good candidate, should I get a survey for a boat in
this price range?
How much does a survey cost, and how do I find a
reliable surveyor?

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

- Costs: What costs should I typically expect for
maintenance and repairs over the year?

- Timing: Should I go for one of the boats offered
on the market now (not so many), or will there be
a larger selection in spring?

I appreciate your input on all these things, and especially
the ones I must have missed. As said, my first boat.
Thanks a lot,

Chris

This is the best site I found for searching:

http://www.boats.com/listing/cache/advanced_search.jsp

Contact the fellow below to survey the boat or recommend someone closer.
Surveyors can be a real crap shoot and I know him personally. You are
looking in a pretty low cost range for something in which you are going very
far from a harbor of refuge.

If you are going out on the ocean, try to avoid boats where the cabin door
sill is at the bottom of the cockpit. The cockpit can be a funnel for a
fatal amount of water if you take a big wave. A short deck aft of the cabin
is well worth stepping over.

Decks are usually the first thing to go on a glass boat. Walk on every part
first thing. If they feel spongy in spots, run. Blisters are primarily
cosmetic but should be attended to.

If the boat has a metal keel that is attached outside the glass, ask the
surveyor about the keel bolts. They may need to be x-rayed or one pulled.
If the keel comes off, you'll probably die.

Stephen J. Wedlock
Stephen J. Wedlock
1001 Bridgeway, PMB 137
Sausalito, CA 94965


Phone: 415 505-3494
Fax: 800 858-6071
NAMS Status: Associate


--

Roger Long

I have a Islander 29' at Marina Del Rey. No, it's not for sale, but
you're welcome to look at it to get ideas of what's available in your
size & price range [I paid $4,500 for mine]. And most importantly,
what to look for when you're buying a boat. all your questions,
I've "been there, done that". My e-mail is and
phone 818/ 790-2403

Cheers,
Trent
S/V Cimba





wrote:
Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

I am planning to use the boat for coastal cruising
in southern California and occasional trips to the
channel islands, and maybe down to the Gulf of Mexico.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following
issues, and any ideas, recommendations or experiences
that might help me with the selection:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

- What are typical problem areas with these boats
that I should pay special attention to?

- Is there anyone in this group who lives in the
Marina del Rey area and who knows boats and would
be willing to look at one or two with me, or to
share thoughts over a glass of beer and tell me
what to look for?

- Inboard / Outboard: Any thoughts on inboard vs.
outboard? The inboards are mostly Atomic gas engines.

- Bottom paint: On almost all boats on the market
the bottom paint is due. On some it is overdue for a
few years. Is this a problem, i.e. is that likely to
turn a boat into a blister farm?

- Is it a cause for concern if there are a few smaller
blisters present on the boat?

- Survey: When I find a boat that I think would be a
good candidate, should I get a survey for a boat in
this price range?
How much does a survey cost, and how do I find a
reliable surveyor?

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

- Costs: What costs should I typically expect for
maintenance and repairs over the year?

- Timing: Should I go for one of the boats offered
on the market now (not so many), or will there be
a larger selection in spring?

I appreciate your input on all these things, and especially
the ones I must have missed. As said, my first boat.
Thanks a lot,

Chris

On 8 Dec 2004 23:26:00 -0800, wrote:


Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

Keep in mind that buying a well equipped boat is usually way cheaper
than buying a poorly equipped boat and adding a whole lot of
equipment, not to mention a whole lot easier.

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

Price out the boat in sail-away trim, including everything you need to
add in order to be happy with the configuration. You could very easily
drop $3000 to $6000 into an old 27 footer for relatively minor
refitting.

Ryk

Get used the constant and horrible bobbing and swaying that will occur on
your 27'er in the ocean. It's romantic to think of dropping only a few thou
to go cruising, but a small boat in the Pacific is the most uncomfortable
thing you've ever been on, even close to shore. Forget cooking, forget
sleeping peacefully, forget anything but hanging on for dear life.



wrote in message
ups.com...

Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

I am planning to use the boat for coastal cruising
in southern California and occasional trips to the
channel islands, and maybe down to the Gulf of Mexico.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following
issues, and any ideas, recommendations or experiences
that might help me with the selection:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

- What are typical problem areas with these boats
that I should pay special attention to?

- Is there anyone in this group who lives in the
Marina del Rey area and who knows boats and would
be willing to look at one or two with me, or to
share thoughts over a glass of beer and tell me
what to look for?

- Inboard / Outboard: Any thoughts on inboard vs.
outboard? The inboards are mostly Atomic gas engines.

- Bottom paint: On almost all boats on the market
the bottom paint is due. On some it is overdue for a
few years. Is this a problem, i.e. is that likely to
turn a boat into a blister farm?

- Is it a cause for concern if there are a few smaller
blisters present on the boat?

- Survey: When I find a boat that I think would be a
good candidate, should I get a survey for a boat in
this price range?
How much does a survey cost, and how do I find a
reliable surveyor?

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

- Costs: What costs should I typically expect for
maintenance and repairs over the year?

- Timing: Should I go for one of the boats offered
on the market now (not so many), or will there be
a larger selection in spring?

I appreciate your input on all these things, and especially
the ones I must have missed. As said, my first boat.
Thanks a lot,

Chris

;-) .... good advice...i am all the way
in colorado, and i i got a bit "woozy" reading
those words of wit........thinking back on some
trips to catilina, from long beach on the cal 25's
and ericson 27's.......some of the time its like
a damm cork in a glass.....


"a small boat in the Pacific is the most
uncomfortable thing you've ever been on,
even close to shore. Forget cooking, forget
sleeping peacefully, forget anything but
hanging on for dear life"

On 8 Dec 2004 23:26:00 -0800, wrote:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

I have raced for five years on a Newport 27. Good boat, but it's a C&C
design. This means it's fast and seaworthy, but the balsa cored decks
are prone to rot unless remedial action is taken.

It is essentially a C&C 27 Mk I hull with different topsides and
around 1,800 lb. less weight, as in around 5,700 lbs. It can be a bit
tender, but it's fast, fast, fast for its size.

I would say it's a good little sailor, but it's strictly a couples
boat for weekending.

First, thanks a lot to everybody for the advice!

I am looking at two boats now, one with a
Volvo MD7A, the other with an Atomic 4.

Besides the different engines I would say that
they are in about equal condition.

I'd be interested to hear comments on the Volvo,
as I am leaning towards the Diesel.

Thanks, and happy holidays,

Chris

chris...from what i have heard, some of the volvo parts are expensive,
and one
can get "locked into" buying genuine volvo parts, driving up the repair
and
maint costs...some of the other, popular motors can use generic or off
brand
parts...keeping some of the costs down...havinh said that, i personally
hve
owned volvos for 20 years and wouldn't buy anything else.....i don't
mind spending
a bit more $ for a brand i know and trust....if (when) i buy my used
ericson
32-222, 36, or 38..(not sure what one yet)...it will be powered by
volvo penta...(sp?)..

btw...what 27 foot boat are you deciding on? did you see/sail and used
ericson 27's or 28's?
i see them on eBay every once and a while for pretty chepa prices...a
few in san diego,
marina del rey, etc...one think i liked about the ericsons were they
wera always a bit
"over built", a bit heavy, a bit more sturdy than other boats in their
class...the newports,
catalinas, cals, etc...

good luck ! a 27' is a nice size for so cali off shore cruisin'.....you
can do one or two
ensanada races...

On 18 Dec 2004 16:30:57 -0800, wrote:

First, thanks a lot to everybody for the advice!

I am looking at two boats now, one with a
Volvo MD7A, the other with an Atomic 4.

Besides the different engines I would say that
they are in about equal condition.

I'd be interested to hear comments on the Volvo,
as I am leaning towards the Diesel.

Volvos are reliable until they break, at which point they become as
expensive as anything manufactured by unionized Europeans.

Atomic 4s are still common (in fact, replacement blocks are being
cast), the fuel (gas) is most common, and they are easy to service.

There is a huge aftermarket for parts and upgrades and the owner base
is active and extensive...lots of free advice.

I never took shop nor owned a car or anything above a chainsaw and
moped when I bought an Atomic 4-equipped boat: now I have rebuilt two
successfully. Getting a rebuild is four grand, a diesel rebuild can be
twice that.

Caveats include raw-seawater cooling thinning out the block, the kind
of wear common to old gas engines (blowby, gaskets, fouled plugs,
gummy carb, etc.). One converted to closed fresh-water or coolant/heat
exchanger cooling is going to be in much better condition UNLESS it's
lived all its life in fresh water, like the Great Lakes.

But if you are reasonably mechanical, you will likely find an Atomic 4
easier and cheaper to service and better suited to daysailing (short
periods of running the engine followed by five days of being docked).

In general, gas engines will not suffer from short bursts of
occassional use. A diesel by its higher compression pressures will. A
diesel run frequently and sufficiently long to fully warm up will last
a lot longer than "cold start-run slow to get out of marina-off" that
is most people's sailing.

Finally, if it's a 27 footer, you might just consider a 9.9-15 hp
four-stroke on a transom motor mount if the inboard ever dies. Unless
you want to do extensive passagemaking, that's the simplest solution
of all, and without a shaft and prop, you will sail a little faster.

R.