Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

I am planning to use the boat for coastal cruising
in southern California and occasional trips to the
channel islands, and maybe down to the Gulf of Mexico.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following
issues, and any ideas, recommendations or experiences
that might help me with the selection:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

- What are typical problem areas with these boats
that I should pay special attention to?

- Is there anyone in this group who lives in the
Marina del Rey area and who knows boats and would
be willing to look at one or two with me, or to
share thoughts over a glass of beer and tell me
what to look for?

- Inboard / Outboard: Any thoughts on inboard vs.
outboard? The inboards are mostly Atomic gas engines.

- Bottom paint: On almost all boats on the market
the bottom paint is due. On some it is overdue for a
few years. Is this a problem, i.e. is that likely to
turn a boat into a blister farm?

- Is it a cause for concern if there are a few smaller
blisters present on the boat?

- Survey: When I find a boat that I think would be a
good candidate, should I get a survey for a boat in
this price range?
How much does a survey cost, and how do I find a
reliable surveyor?

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

- Costs: What costs should I typically expect for
maintenance and repairs over the year?

- Timing: Should I go for one of the boats offered
on the market now (not so many), or will there be
a larger selection in spring?

I appreciate your input on all these things, and especially
the ones I must have missed. As said, my first boat.
Thanks a lot,

Chris

This is the best site I found for searching:

http://www.boats.com/listing/cache/advanced_search.jsp

Contact the fellow below to survey the boat or recommend someone closer.
Surveyors can be a real crap shoot and I know him personally. You are
looking in a pretty low cost range for something in which you are going very
far from a harbor of refuge.

If you are going out on the ocean, try to avoid boats where the cabin door
sill is at the bottom of the cockpit. The cockpit can be a funnel for a
fatal amount of water if you take a big wave. A short deck aft of the cabin
is well worth stepping over.

Decks are usually the first thing to go on a glass boat. Walk on every part
first thing. If they feel spongy in spots, run. Blisters are primarily
cosmetic but should be attended to.

If the boat has a metal keel that is attached outside the glass, ask the
surveyor about the keel bolts. They may need to be x-rayed or one pulled.
If the keel comes off, you'll probably die.

Stephen J. Wedlock
Stephen J. Wedlock
1001 Bridgeway, PMB 137
Sausalito, CA 94965


Phone: 415 505-3494
Fax: 800 858-6071
NAMS Status: Associate


--

Roger Long

I have a Islander 29' at Marina Del Rey. No, it's not for sale, but
you're welcome to look at it to get ideas of what's available in your
size & price range [I paid $4,500 for mine]. And most importantly,
what to look for when you're buying a boat. all your questions,
I've "been there, done that". My e-mail is and
phone 818/ 790-2403

Cheers,
Trent
S/V Cimba





wrote:
Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

I am planning to use the boat for coastal cruising
in southern California and occasional trips to the
channel islands, and maybe down to the Gulf of Mexico.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following
issues, and any ideas, recommendations or experiences
that might help me with the selection:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

- What are typical problem areas with these boats
that I should pay special attention to?

- Is there anyone in this group who lives in the
Marina del Rey area and who knows boats and would
be willing to look at one or two with me, or to
share thoughts over a glass of beer and tell me
what to look for?

- Inboard / Outboard: Any thoughts on inboard vs.
outboard? The inboards are mostly Atomic gas engines.

- Bottom paint: On almost all boats on the market
the bottom paint is due. On some it is overdue for a
few years. Is this a problem, i.e. is that likely to
turn a boat into a blister farm?

- Is it a cause for concern if there are a few smaller
blisters present on the boat?

- Survey: When I find a boat that I think would be a
good candidate, should I get a survey for a boat in
this price range?
How much does a survey cost, and how do I find a
reliable surveyor?

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

- Costs: What costs should I typically expect for
maintenance and repairs over the year?

- Timing: Should I go for one of the boats offered
on the market now (not so many), or will there be
a larger selection in spring?

I appreciate your input on all these things, and especially
the ones I must have missed. As said, my first boat.
Thanks a lot,

Chris

On 8 Dec 2004 23:26:00 -0800, wrote:


Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

Keep in mind that buying a well equipped boat is usually way cheaper
than buying a poorly equipped boat and adding a whole lot of
equipment, not to mention a whole lot easier.

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

Price out the boat in sail-away trim, including everything you need to
add in order to be happy with the configuration. You could very easily
drop $3000 to $6000 into an old 27 footer for relatively minor
refitting.

Ryk

Oh, absolutely. The sounding will find problems earlier but is best done by
an experienced surveyor. If the deck are spongy when you hop on board to
take your first look though, you can save the cost of having that boat
surveyed.

--

Roger Long



"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:48:14 GMT, "Roger Long" said:

Decks are usually the first thing to go on a glass boat. Walk on every
part
first thing. If they feel spongy in spots, run.

I think a better procedure is to "sound" the deck by rapping with a
plastic
hammer or (what I found works) a plastic screwdriver handle. This will
pick
up the problem long before you can feel spongy spots. The process is
described in one Casey's books called something like Surveying the Old
Fiberglass Boat..

Get used the constant and horrible bobbing and swaying that will occur on
your 27'er in the ocean. It's romantic to think of dropping only a few thou
to go cruising, but a small boat in the Pacific is the most uncomfortable
thing you've ever been on, even close to shore. Forget cooking, forget
sleeping peacefully, forget anything but hanging on for dear life.



wrote in message
ups.com...

Greetings,

I am buying my first boat, and would appreciate
your recommendations, ideas, and experiences.

The boats I am looking at are 30 year old 27 footers
in the $3000.- to $6000,- range.

I am planning to use the boat for coastal cruising
in southern California and occasional trips to the
channel islands, and maybe down to the Gulf of Mexico.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following
issues, and any ideas, recommendations or experiences
that might help me with the selection:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

- What are typical problem areas with these boats
that I should pay special attention to?

- Is there anyone in this group who lives in the
Marina del Rey area and who knows boats and would
be willing to look at one or two with me, or to
share thoughts over a glass of beer and tell me
what to look for?

- Inboard / Outboard: Any thoughts on inboard vs.
outboard? The inboards are mostly Atomic gas engines.

- Bottom paint: On almost all boats on the market
the bottom paint is due. On some it is overdue for a
few years. Is this a problem, i.e. is that likely to
turn a boat into a blister farm?

- Is it a cause for concern if there are a few smaller
blisters present on the boat?

- Survey: When I find a boat that I think would be a
good candidate, should I get a survey for a boat in
this price range?
How much does a survey cost, and how do I find a
reliable surveyor?

- Price: Any rules of thumb on how to determine the
price, i.e. markup/deduction for things
like inboard good / running but rotten,
outboard good / rotten,
sails good / bad / extra,
bottom paint new /due,
standing rigging new/old,
holding tank yes/no,
VHF, depth sounder, autohelm etc. yes / no
etc., etc...?

- Costs: What costs should I typically expect for
maintenance and repairs over the year?

- Timing: Should I go for one of the boats offered
on the market now (not so many), or will there be
a larger selection in spring?

I appreciate your input on all these things, and especially
the ones I must have missed. As said, my first boat.
Thanks a lot,

Chris

Good point although the original poster sounds pretty new to boats.

If it passes the walk test, sound it yourself. If it passes that test, have
a surveyor go over it.

--

Roger Long



"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:05:43 GMT, "Roger Long" said:

Oh, absolutely. The sounding will find problems earlier but is best done
by
an experienced surveyor.

Not really. The difference in the sound of a solid part of the deck and
the
delaminated parts is pretty obvious even to an untrained ear. While it
should be part of the survey, you're gonna waste some money if you leave
it
for the survey.

On 8 Dec 2004 23:26:00 -0800, wrote:

- Make: I have been looking mostly at Catalinas,
Columbias, and some Newports, as these are
the boats most commonly offered around here.
Is any of these considerably better or worse than
the others?
Are there other Types I should seek or avoid?

I have raced for five years on a Newport 27. Good boat, but it's a C&C
design. This means it's fast and seaworthy, but the balsa cored decks
are prone to rot unless remedial action is taken.

It is essentially a C&C 27 Mk I hull with different topsides and
around 1,800 lb. less weight, as in around 5,700 lbs. It can be a bit
tender, but it's fast, fast, fast for its size.

I would say it's a good little sailor, but it's strictly a couples
boat for weekending.

;-) .... good advice...i am all the way
in colorado, and i i got a bit "woozy" reading
those words of wit........thinking back on some
trips to catilina, from long beach on the cal 25's
and ericson 27's.......some of the time its like
a damm cork in a glass.....


"a small boat in the Pacific is the most
uncomfortable thing you've ever been on,
even close to shore. Forget cooking, forget
sleeping peacefully, forget anything but
hanging on for dear life"

First, thanks a lot to everybody for the advice!

I am looking at two boats now, one with a
Volvo MD7A, the other with an Atomic 4.

Besides the different engines I would say that
they are in about equal condition.

I'd be interested to hear comments on the Volvo,
as I am leaning towards the Diesel.

Thanks, and happy holidays,

Chris