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jeffies, *you* have never seen that canal and never will, not even from the
highway. what's more, your wife would never let you attempt to pass through it
because you would have to take your mast down at one end and put it back up
(something she would never allow you to do without professional help) and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for you
to follow.

now, listen up jeffies. the height difference between the bays is slight the
current there never gets much above 4 knots either direction. That is less
current than either way in The Race (which has no locks and no gates across)
and less current either way than the East River (which has no locks and no
gates across) and about the current through the Verazano Narrows (which has no
locks and no gates across) and one hell of a lot less current than the Harlem
River (which has no locks and no gates across) and about the current of the
Cape Cod canal (which has no locks and no gates across) and just a bit more
current than Block Island Sound (which has no locks and no gates across).

Now, jeffies, just because some gate tender who may wish to argue for a pay
raise calls a lock a gate no more makes it a lock than some pretentious local
politician (looking for federal funds to maintain it?) calling a gate a lock.
The CG says it is not a lock and the C of Eng says it is not a lock. It is no
more a lock because it is shaped like a lock than a rubber doll is a woman
because it is shaped like a woman.

geesh, do you suppose that jeffies really does think an inflatable doll can
cook just because it is shaped like a woman? jeffies, how many orifaces does
an inflatable doll have? I have no experience with inflatable dolls and so
have to trust your experience on this.

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 11/26/2004 10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, attempting rational discussion with you is like attempting rational
discusssion with a dog pile.

You're right jaxie. You're pretty pathetic by comparison in either case.

so, jeffie, are those "locks" or "gates" across The Race, or the East River, or
the Harlem River, or the Verizano Narrows, or Block Island Sound, or the Cape
Cod canal?

Gee, they all have currents equal to or greater than the Shinnecock canal.

So what did you say the purpose of a lock is, jeffies?

jeffies is the only person on the planet who walks into a phone booth believing
he will come out Superman.

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/5/2004 12:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, attempting rational discussion with you is like attempting
rational
discusssion with a dog pile.

You're right jaxie. You're pretty pathetic by comparison in either case.

JAXAshby continues to prove he's a complete idiot:

jeffies, *you* have never seen that canal and never will, not even from the
highway.

You're right. I've never seen it. Neither have you.

what's more, your wife would never let you attempt to pass through it
because you would have to take your mast down at one end and put it back up
(something she would never allow you to do without professional help)

Do you mean like we did in the Erie Canal? Of course, we did have a
professional crane operator to put it back up - this is a serious sized
mast we have. However, the Oswego Marina has a manual crane that they
allow the amateurs to use.

and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for you
to follow.

Yes - very shallow. Not like the shallow water we had in Florida Bay.
But we know you're terrified of shallow water - you actually claimed it
was impossible to sail down the Chesapeake without local knowledge!

now, listen up jeffies. the height difference between the bays is slight the
current there never gets much above 4 knots either direction.

Why do all of the tide table show the height difference is often two
feet?

Here's a web site -
http://www.tides.com/cgi-bin/tcweb.exe

Even in the more modest tides right now, the difference between the
north side of the canal (Peconic Bay, Shinnecock Canal) and the south
side (Ponquogue Bridge) is about 1.5 feet at 6PM today. The printouts I
saved from 2 weeks ago show a 2 foot difference for most of the day.

And remember, I posted a link to an old report that said the tidal
difference was often 5 feet before the inlet was cut in 1938. The lock
was built some twenty years before that.

That is less
current than either way in The Race (which has no locks and no gates across)
and less current either way than the East River (which has no locks and no
gates across) and about the current through the Verazano Narrows (which has no
locks and no gates across) and one hell of a lot less current than the Harlem
River (which has no locks and no gates across) and about the current of the
Cape Cod canal (which has no locks and no gates across) and just a bit more
current than Block Island Sound (which has no locks and no gates across).

Do you have a point here or are you just trying to show your stupidity?
The decision to put in locks is a combination of factors. For
example, a 4 knot current in a channel a mile wide is a little different
from 4 knots in a cut 100 feet wide.

However, the only reason I mentioned Hell Gate was to point out that
there are numerous places the have a tidal difference of several feet
across a few miles. You seemed to think this is physically impossible.

Now, jeffies, just because some gate tender who may wish to argue for a pay
raise calls a lock a gate no more makes it a lock than some pretentious local
politician (looking for federal funds to maintain it?) calling a gate a lock.

How about the Coast Pilot? What "hidden agenda" do they have?

The CG says it is not a lock

No. They say its a lock. If you want to claim different, post a link.
Otherwise you just an idiot.

and the C of Eng says it is not a lock.

No. the C of Eng says its a lock. I even posted a reference where they
described its action. Again, you're just too much of a coward to admit
you were lying in the beginning.

It is no
more a lock because it is shaped like a lock than a rubber doll is a woman
because it is shaped like a woman.

Finally you brought up a topic where you have some knowledge. We'll
have to take your word about that.

Its a lock because it was built as a lock and continues to function as a
lock. The fact that it is only used to when the current runs north
(as I pointed out in my first post) is not relevant.

JAXAshby wrote:
so, jeffie, are those "locks" or "gates" across The Race, or the East River, or
the Harlem River, or the Verizano Narrows, or Block Island Sound, or the Cape
Cod canal?

Nope. No need for locks there, even though the tidal differences are
over 2 feet in these areas.

Gee, they all have currents equal to or greater than the Shinnecock canal.

What's your point? Each situation is different. And the locks were
added to the Shinnecock Canal before the Shinnecock Inlet was opened by
the Hurricane of '38.

So what did you say the purpose of a lock is, jeffies?

Here's a quote I'll repeat from a local magazine. If you have trouble
with the big words we can help you:

"This problem [erosion in the canal] was solved by building tide gates
and, in 1919, a lock in the canal. The one-way tide gates -- pushed open
by high tides running south from Peconic Bay and pushed closed by high
tides running from the opposite direction -- ensure that enough water
flushes out of Peconic Bay into Shinnecock Bay to carry all the sand and
silt that would otherwise accumulate and block the canal. The lock,
rebuilt about 30 years ago, allows boats to be floated up or down to
meet the differing water levels at either end."
http://www.newsday.com/community/gui...ory-navigation

jeffies, you are as stew ped as a sheet rock wall. have you -- physics major
you claim to be -- any idea that current is related to just how much difference
in water levels there are?

wanna tell again that an inflatable doll cooks because it has the shape of a
woman?

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/5/2004 5:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby continues to prove he's a complete idiot:

jeffies, *you* have never seen that canal and never will, not even from the
highway.

You're right. I've never seen it. Neither have you.

what's more, your wife would never let you attempt to pass through it
because you would have to take your mast down at one end and put it back up
(something she would never allow you to do without professional help)

Do you mean like we did in the Erie Canal? Of course, we did have a
professional crane operator to put it back up - this is a serious sized
mast we have. However, the Oswego Marina has a manual crane that they
allow the amateurs to use.

and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for
you
to follow.

Yes - very shallow. Not like the shallow water we had in Florida Bay.
But we know you're terrified of shallow water - you actually claimed it
was impossible to sail down the Chesapeake without local knowledge!

now, listen up jeffies. the height difference between the bays is slight
the
current there never gets much above 4 knots either direction.

Why do all of the tide table show the height difference is often two
feet?

Here's a web site -
http://www.tides.com/cgi-bin/tcweb.exe

Even in the more modest tides right now, the difference between the
north side of the canal (Peconic Bay, Shinnecock Canal) and the south
side (Ponquogue Bridge) is about 1.5 feet at 6PM today. The printouts I
saved from 2 weeks ago show a 2 foot difference for most of the day.

And remember, I posted a link to an old report that said the tidal
difference was often 5 feet before the inlet was cut in 1938. The lock
was built some twenty years before that.

That is less
current than either way in The Race (which has no locks and no gates
across)
and less current either way than the East River (which has no locks and no
gates across) and about the current through the Verazano Narrows (which has
no
locks and no gates across) and one hell of a lot less current than the
Harlem
River (which has no locks and no gates across) and about the current of the
Cape Cod canal (which has no locks and no gates across) and just a bit more
current than Block Island Sound (which has no locks and no gates across).

Do you have a point here or are you just trying to show your stupidity?
The decision to put in locks is a combination of factors. For
example, a 4 knot current in a channel a mile wide is a little different
from 4 knots in a cut 100 feet wide.

However, the only reason I mentioned Hell Gate was to point out that
there are numerous places the have a tidal difference of several feet
across a few miles. You seemed to think this is physically impossible.

Now, jeffies, just because some gate tender who may wish to argue for a pay
raise calls a lock a gate no more makes it a lock than some pretentious
local
politician (looking for federal funds to maintain it?) calling a gate a
lock.

How about the Coast Pilot? What "hidden agenda" do they have?

The CG says it is not a lock

No. They say its a lock. If you want to claim different, post a link.
Otherwise you just an idiot.

and the C of Eng says it is not a lock.

No. the C of Eng says its a lock. I even posted a reference where they
described its action. Again, you're just too much of a coward to admit
you were lying in the beginning.

It is no
more a lock because it is shaped like a lock than a rubber doll is a woman
because it is shaped like a woman.

Finally you brought up a topic where you have some knowledge. We'll
have to take your word about that.

Its a lock because it was built as a lock and continues to function as a
lock. The fact that it is only used to when the current runs north
(as I pointed out in my first post) is not relevant.

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, you are as stew ped as a sheet rock wall. have you -- physics major
you claim to be -- any idea that current is related to just how much difference
in water levels there are?

Why don't you explain it to us, jaxie? You keep making a vague allusion
to your difficulty in understanding tides. So what is it - are you
saying that its impossible to have a height difference of a few feet
over a few miles?

Why don't you take a Power Squadron course, and after they explain how
to use a tide table, look up the tides on either side of Hell Gate or
the Cape Cod Canal. And then lookup the Shinnecock Canal. You may not
understand it, but you might finally believe it.

wanna tell again that an inflatable doll cooks because it has the shape of a
woman?

That's your department, jaxie.