Parallax wrote:
I thought I'd have left on my cruise by now but am still finishing my
nesting dinghy so while that is happening, I am wondering about taking
a computer. Is a computer really desireable on a cruise?

To ask this question without saying how long the cruise is or where
you're going is a bit meaningless. IIRC your boat is not large - do you
have enough space that you can stash it in a dry locker and not worry if
you never use it?

I like to do
weird calculations with spreadsheets and work out bizaare optics for
fun and profit.

If you have a computer based hobby/business, then it would be useful.
If you're into digital photography, you'll want to be able to save and
edit pics - but you should know that already. If you like to use the
computer (without being connected)when land based, there is a good
chance you'll find a use for it while traveling.

Supposedly you can watch a movie on a computer
although I have never done so and am almost unable to watch movies but
a cruise on a sailboat has a lot of free time.

A dedicated player is a lot better, and cheaper.

...I would never trust my
navigation to computer charts so that isnt a reason.

The last time I went out for a year I had a computer fully set up for
nav, but found a handheld chartplotter more convenient. Nav gear is
most important in the worst conditions, so I didn't want to become
reliant on something I would only use in fair conditions. On the other
hand there are many who prefer to use a computer - this is an area where
everyone has to find their own comfort level.

The odd thing is I have several different chart systems loaded now - I
can bring up a chart of anywhere in the world in a few seconds, and I
use it on a daily basis. On the boat however, I'm more interested in
being able to do a running fix in my head while steering through a
squall, so I try to practice mow basic skills.

Is being in
touch via e-mail and news groups really desireable or even practical?

Most marinas will allow you to send emails, some have wifi, etc. And of
course there are always cafes, etc. If you stay in touch with friends
& family by email when land based, then you will want to do that while
cruising. If you like to use a phone, find the best cellular plan for
your trip. You can also send emails by cell phone.

I used the computer for email, updating a web site (so grandma could see
pictures) and for bill tracking. but I'd have to say that the one thing
I missed most about be "boat based" was the instant access to the web
for simple browsing.


At work, we have a plethora of new computers but all are too big and
run on 110 volts. My electrical capacity will be limited to when the
engine is running, whatever charge is in my 2 batteries, and whatever
my 10 watt solar panel makes. This argues for a laptop.

You can build a "box" that uses the same power as a laptop, but then you
need space for a monitor. Also, you can power a laptop off of a small
inverter - its worth having one on board if you have any AC aplliances
(tooth brush, power drill, etc.)

My last experience with a laptop had me trying to get it stolen in
airports but nobody ever took it. Even though it had a damned crappy
power supply, I kept it going far longer than I should have by
open-chassis surgery and soldering iron.

Sounds like you don't really get along with computers.


When it finally did die, I
gleefully extracted its hard drive and installed it in an adapter for
my current home computer so that every time I see it I imagine it as a
brain in a jar and I have gotten my revenge. I can almost imagine it
saying "Dave, I know we have had our problems but.....Daisy,
Daisy...."
So, what do y'all think?

You haven't given a reason why you need one. This is one of those
things where if you know you need it, you don't have to ask. I used to
take laptops with me, now I don't bother if I'm out for less than a
month. Memory chips for the camera are cheap and I can even crop and
print without a computer. I have a dvd player that's better than most
computers. And for a limited time, I'd rather rely on books for
research and intellectual stimulation.

If I were going out for longer, I'd bring a computer. Nowadays, there
are fair solutions for connectivity in some areas - I have a friend who
has stayed online for most of the East Coast using a cell phone - in the
next few years this may be more common.

One big mistake is thinking your lifestyle will change dramatically
while cruising. For instance, my wife decided that she would learn new
cooking styles while traveling. I have simpler tastes, and I got my
fill of "new tastes" while being a tourist in a new town every other
day; on the boat I preferred more basic comfort foods. We came back with
lockers full of the same exotic ingredients we left with. There were a
whole raft of new hobbies I might have acquired, such as fishing, but in
fact we tended to do more of what we did while land based.



Is there any practical way to do e-mail while underway?

You can email with a cell phone - it really depends on want you want to
do. I used Pocket Mail from a Palm Pilot over a cell phone, that was
good for short messages.

Should I just go back to using my slide rule for calculations?

Yes! That's the only proper way to do Celestial Navigation!

As a programmer for 30 years, I tended to write small programs to do
simple calculations - now I keep a calculator handy because that's what
I really need now. Maybe its time to dust off the slip stick.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:49:53 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

Most marinas will allow you to send emails, some have wifi, etc. And of
course there are always cafes, etc. If you stay in touch with friends
& family by email when land based, then you will want to do that while
cruising. If you like to use a phone, find the best cellular plan for
your trip. You can also send emails by cell phone.

I find that marinas with hookup for an old-fashioned dial-up modem are
less common. I will have to get a more modern machine with wifi and
ethernet connections before next season.

However, your last sentence caught my eye. I know when I first got a
cel phone, maybe six years ago, it could browse only web sites
translated by th eprovider, and couldn't be used for normal modem
acccess.

Is that different now, or are you talking about special ISP accounts
at the cellular company? I don't want to read email on a cellphone,
but if it will act as or with a modem for the laptop that would do me.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The destruction of the World Trade Center was
a faith-based initiative. -- George Carlin

In Rodney Myrvaagnes writes:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:49:53 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

Most marinas will allow you to send emails, some have wifi, etc. And of
course there are always cafes, etc. If you stay in touch with friends
& family by email when land based, then you will want to do that while
cruising. If you like to use a phone, find the best cellular plan for
your trip. You can also send emails by cell phone.

I find that marinas with hookup for an old-fashioned dial-up modem are
less common. I will have to get a more modern machine with wifi and
ethernet connections before next season.

However, your last sentence caught my eye. I know when I first got a
cel phone, maybe six years ago, it could browse only web sites
translated by th eprovider, and couldn't be used for normal modem
acccess.

Is that different now, or are you talking about special ISP accounts
at the cellular company? I don't want to read email on a cellphone,
but if it will act as or with a modem for the laptop that would do me.

If you are happy with e-mail and internerconnections that match a normal
(fast) dial-upp modem and it is enough to get the contact when close
enough to the land that your cell phone is working, then the way to go
is the GPRS-service. This is working with a card inserted in your
laptop, it includes the operators card and works like a w-lan, but the
speeds are only below some 40,000 bauds. You can check your favourite
weatherstation (if they have www-service, receive pictures of your
grandchildren in e-mail (not very big ones) and exchange ordinary
messages. I tried it last summer in the Baltic and worked well in
Estonia, Latvia and Sweden and Finland. I bet it will work in the whole
Europe, even in UK, as the company providing the servive for me was
Vodafone.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

PS: I believe that many members of the younger generation would not bee
too happy with the speed provided by the GPRS service, but I must tell
you, that I started with speeds of 110, and found the change to 300 a
wast improvement and every step 1200, 2400, etc have always impressed
me.

Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The destruction of the World Trade Center was
a faith-based initiative. -- George Carlin

Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:49:53 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:


Most marinas will allow you to send emails, some have wifi, etc. And of
course there are always cafes, etc. If you stay in touch with friends
& family by email when land based, then you will want to do that while
cruising. If you like to use a phone, find the best cellular plan for
your trip. You can also send emails by cell phone.


I find that marinas with hookup for an old-fashioned dial-up modem are
less common. I will have to get a more modern machine with wifi and
ethernet connections before next season.


Many marinas will let you use their second phone line (usually used for
credit cards) for brief email checks. Maybe now that they can charge
for wifi use they push that instead.



However, your last sentence caught my eye. I know when I first got a
cel phone, maybe six years ago, it could browse only web sites
translated by th eprovider, and couldn't be used for normal modem
acccess.

Is that different now, or are you talking about special ISP accounts
at the cellular company? I don't want to read email on a cellphone,
but if it will act as or with a modem for the laptop that would do me.


Actually, I was thinking of text messaging for short emails, and pocket
mail for somewhat larger messages. Neither are as nice as real email,
but they're enough to let people know you're alive.

Sprint has a system where the phone can be wired to a computer and it
serves as a modem. My friend claims it was rated at 140 kbaud, and
actually did about 110 kbaud. It is geared towards phone only use but
works with a computer. The plan my friend has is a $10 surcharge on top
of the $39 plan, however, I think they have "wised up" and now charge a
much larger premium for computers. However, for some the fees would be
worth it. I noticed the Sprint unlimited data business plan is $80 per
month. But ATT has "unlimited mmode" for $25 that might work with one
of those new phones with a keyboard. But ATT has been bought by
Cingular and their system is down now ...

Verizon has plans where a limited amount of online time can be combined
with phone minutes so that limited surfing can be economical.

One more thing - I've never done it but a number of people have said
they can connect at about 9600 baud using analog on a cell phone.

Jeff Morris wrote in message ...
Parallax wrote:
I thought I'd have left on my cruise by now but am still finishing my
nesting dinghy so while that is happening, I am wondering about taking
a computer. Is a computer really desireable on a cruise?

To ask this question without saying how long the cruise is or where
you're going is a bit meaningless. IIRC your boat is not large - do you
have enough space that you can stash it in a dry locker and not worry if
you never use it?

I like to do
weird calculations with spreadsheets and work out bizaare optics for
fun and profit.

If you have a computer based hobby/business, then it would be useful.
If you're into digital photography, you'll want to be able to save and
edit pics - but you should know that already. If you like to use the
computer (without being connected)when land based, there is a good
chance you'll find a use for it while traveling.

Supposedly you can watch a movie on a computer
although I have never done so and am almost unable to watch movies but
a cruise on a sailboat has a lot of free time.

A dedicated player is a lot better, and cheaper.

..I would never trust my
navigation to computer charts so that isnt a reason.

The last time I went out for a year I had a computer fully set up for
nav, but found a handheld chartplotter more convenient. Nav gear is
most important in the worst conditions, so I didn't want to become
reliant on something I would only use in fair conditions. On the other
hand there are many who prefer to use a computer - this is an area where
everyone has to find their own comfort level.

The odd thing is I have several different chart systems loaded now - I
can bring up a chart of anywhere in the world in a few seconds, and I
use it on a daily basis. On the boat however, I'm more interested in
being able to do a running fix in my head while steering through a
squall, so I try to practice mow basic skills.

Is being in
touch via e-mail and news groups really desireable or even practical?

Most marinas will allow you to send emails, some have wifi, etc. And of
course there are always cafes, etc. If you stay in touch with friends
& family by email when land based, then you will want to do that while
cruising. If you like to use a phone, find the best cellular plan for
your trip. You can also send emails by cell phone.

I used the computer for email, updating a web site (so grandma could see
pictures) and for bill tracking. but I'd have to say that the one thing
I missed most about be "boat based" was the instant access to the web
for simple browsing.


At work, we have a plethora of new computers but all are too big and
run on 110 volts. My electrical capacity will be limited to when the
engine is running, whatever charge is in my 2 batteries, and whatever
my 10 watt solar panel makes. This argues for a laptop.

You can build a "box" that uses the same power as a laptop, but then you
need space for a monitor. Also, you can power a laptop off of a small
inverter - its worth having one on board if you have any AC aplliances
(tooth brush, power drill, etc.)

My last experience with a laptop had me trying to get it stolen in
airports but nobody ever took it. Even though it had a damned crappy
power supply, I kept it going far longer than I should have by
open-chassis surgery and soldering iron.

Sounds like you don't really get along with computers.


When it finally did die, I
gleefully extracted its hard drive and installed it in an adapter for
my current home computer so that every time I see it I imagine it as a
brain in a jar and I have gotten my revenge. I can almost imagine it
saying "Dave, I know we have had our problems but.....Daisy,
Daisy...."
So, what do y'all think?

You haven't given a reason why you need one. This is one of those
things where if you know you need it, you don't have to ask. I used to
take laptops with me, now I don't bother if I'm out for less than a
month. Memory chips for the camera are cheap and I can even crop and
print without a computer. I have a dvd player that's better than most
computers. And for a limited time, I'd rather rely on books for
research and intellectual stimulation.

If I were going out for longer, I'd bring a computer. Nowadays, there
are fair solutions for connectivity in some areas - I have a friend who
has stayed online for most of the East Coast using a cell phone - in the
next few years this may be more common.

One big mistake is thinking your lifestyle will change dramatically
while cruising. For instance, my wife decided that she would learn new
cooking styles while traveling. I have simpler tastes, and I got my
fill of "new tastes" while being a tourist in a new town every other
day; on the boat I preferred more basic comfort foods. We came back with
lockers full of the same exotic ingredients we left with. There were a
whole raft of new hobbies I might have acquired, such as fishing, but in
fact we tended to do more of what we did while land based.



Is there any practical way to do e-mail while underway?

You can email with a cell phone - it really depends on want you want to
do. I used Pocket Mail from a Palm Pilot over a cell phone, that was
good for short messages.

Should I just go back to using my slide rule for calculations?

Yes! That's the only proper way to do Celestial Navigation!

As a programmer for 30 years, I tended to write small programs to do
simple calculations - now I keep a calculator handy because that's what
I really need now. Maybe its time to dust off the slip stick.


Basically am a math physics geek who dreams up weird optics for a
living whenever I am s'posed to be doing other things. A lot of this
is pencil and paper but ya know, spread sheets are nice. I got no
probs pokin round in the innards of a computer but have learned to
hate the seeming arbitrariness of software. I could still program in
Fortran if needed but Vis Basic is nice. I really wouldnt use it for
movies and would only send e-mail to family which is redundant with a
cell phone so the only reason for having it is for when I get bored
and wanna poke around at some problem.

Parallax wrote:

Basically am a math physics geek who dreams up weird optics for a
living whenever I am s'posed to be doing other things. A lot of this
is pencil and paper but ya know, spread sheets are nice. I got no
probs pokin round in the innards of a computer but have learned to
hate the seeming arbitrariness of software. I could still program in
Fortran if needed but Vis Basic is nice. I really wouldnt use it for
movies and would only send e-mail to family which is redundant with a
cell phone so the only reason for having it is for when I get bored
and wanna poke around at some problem.

So why are you wasting our time by asking if you should have one?
Either do it or don't, it really doesn't matter. You haven't given any
reason to have it other than maybe it would be nice if you dreamed up
something to use it for. So why are you asking us?

Jeff Morris wrote in message ...
Parallax wrote:

Basically am a math physics geek who dreams up weird optics for a
living whenever I am s'posed to be doing other things. A lot of this
is pencil and paper but ya know, spread sheets are nice. I got no
probs pokin round in the innards of a computer but have learned to
hate the seeming arbitrariness of software. I could still program in
Fortran if needed but Vis Basic is nice. I really wouldnt use it for
movies and would only send e-mail to family which is redundant with a
cell phone so the only reason for having it is for when I get bored
and wanna poke around at some problem.

So why are you wasting our time by asking if you should have one?
Either do it or don't, it really doesn't matter. You haven't given any
reason to have it other than maybe it would be nice if you dreamed up
something to use it for. So why are you asking us?

I suppose that I am wondering if it is really useful for anything
else. Posting all of this has just about made up my mind though, NO
computer. I realized all I really wanted it for was fun, not
communication.