HOW2 match winch torque with electric drill ?
 

I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

I saw an adaptor at Annapolis. It had a 5/8" hex shank on one end and a
winch star on the other. I am sure it would require a lot of torque. The
demo was being driven with a 24V low speed right angle drill. Similar to a
Hole Hawg but battery operated. It was red so I assume it was a Milwaukee.

The thing is, electric winches up to the mid 50s use a 3/4 HP motor geared
down to about 50 RPM. I don't know of a hand drill that can deliver that
much torque so you will have to do the last few turns the old fashioned
way..

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

A unit similar to what you describe is commercially available. I think its
"The Wincher". You can probably find the specs for the motor on the Net or
call them. I'm sure they would give you specs like motor HP, torque,
current draw, etc., if you make is sound like you might be interested in a
purchase (and maybe you are).

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and Milwaukee
1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

I use a very inexpensive 120 vac 1/2" drill motor from Harbor Freight for
going up my mast. It works like a charm. Only trick is coming up with the
bit that fits into the winch socket. Simple for any machine shop to make.

Tsailor


If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

The Milwaukee 3109-24 right angle 18 volt drill delivers 600 inch lbs
of torque at the low side rpm of 350. I use this drill with a winch
head bit on the low speed side of my barient 27's to hoist a 500 sf
full batten main. Works out to approx 30 rpm at the winch at full
speed. Works like a charm. I get 4 hoists to a charge. No drawbacks
and I can decouple the tool and use it for other tasks. Buy an extra
battery and charge it off your inverter. $350.00 all up.


On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:50 -0500, Courtney Thomas
wrote:

I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney

search winch bit on ebay. they sell them for $20.00


On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:55:16 GMT, "TSailor"
wrote:

I use a very inexpensive 120 vac 1/2" drill motor from Harbor Freight for
going up my mast. It works like a charm. Only trick is coming up with the
bit that fits into the winch socket. Simple for any machine shop to make.

Tsailor


If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message

I saw an adaptor at Annapolis. It had a 5/8" hex shank on one end and a
winch star on the other. I am sure it would require a lot of torque.
The
demo was being driven with a 24V low speed right angle drill. Similar to
a
Hole Hawg but battery operated. It was red so I assume it was a
Milwaukee.

The thing is, electric winches up to the mid 50s use a 3/4 HP motor geared
down to about 50 RPM. I don't know of a hand drill that can deliver that
much torque so you will have to do the last few turns the old fashioned
way..

I suspect those winch motors were turning the drum directly. The drill
motor would be using the winches gears.

A person can exert only about 50 lbs with a one handled winch handle. Maybe
a bit more if he grunts and is big. 50 lbs x 10" = 500 in.lbs

A Milwaulkee 18V cordless drill spec gives 600 in. lbs of torque. Maybe it
is enough.

You would probably want a short tether on the end of the drill to clip to
the deck and provide a reaction force (otherwise you would still have to
provide 50 lbs of force on the end of the drill to stop it spinning!) I do
recall the "Wincher" used such a strap but it was $2500 or so!

I suspect that this drill is just enough grunt for the job, but I wonder how
long the batteries would last tacking up a narrow channel? Perhaps the
corded one would be better suited?

--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
Marc,

What do you do, if anything, regarding the previously referred to
[potential] problem of....the drill's reaction force of ~50 lbs ?

Evan suggested a tether. Thoughts ?

Also, since a much less expensive AC drill can be had with similar
capabilities, why did you think the DC unit worth the difference,
especially since the batteries must be recharged anyway ?

I would definitely consider a length of cable shackled to a pad eye. When
my heavy duty drill grabs it is impossible to hold on. It could break your
arm.

The battery operated drill will be a little more mobile but mainly you don't
have a cable carrying 120VAC laying around the cockpit.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Marc,

What do you do, if anything, regarding the previously referred to
[potential] problem of....the drill's reaction force of ~50 lbs ?

Evan suggested a tether. Thoughts ?

Also, since a much less expensive AC drill can be had with similar
capabilities, why did you think the DC unit worth the difference,
especially since the batteries must be recharged anyway ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney



Marc wrote:

The Milwaukee 3109-24 right angle 18 volt drill delivers 600 inch lbs
of torque at the low side rpm of 350. I use this drill with a winch
head bit on the low speed side of my barient 27's to hoist a 500 sf
full batten main. Works out to approx 30 rpm at the winch at full
speed. Works like a charm. I get 4 hoists to a charge. No drawbacks
and I can decouple the tool and use it for other tasks. Buy an extra
battery and charge it off your inverter. $350.00 all up.


On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:50 -0500, Courtney Thomas
wrote:


I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney




--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

TSailor,

If you also use the drill with the sails, what's your boat's
displacement and how big's your main sail, please ?

If you don't use it with the sails, why not ? Is it inadequate to the task ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney



TSailor wrote:

I use a very inexpensive 120 vac 1/2" drill motor from Harbor Freight for
going up my mast. It works like a charm. Only trick is coming up with the
bit that fits into the winch socket. Simple for any machine shop to make.

Tsailor


If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?






--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

There is no "resistance problem" The Milwaukee is a right angle drill,
D handle drill, approx 18" long. It is easily held and kick back is
readily controlled.

Since I do not have a generator or full sized inverter on board, I
prefer the Cordless unit. A small Inverter handles the recharging.
Also, it is Cordless, a major convenience.

Respectfully, you are overthinking this matter. $350 all up is your
downside risk and you can sell it on ebay if you are not happy. Since
I introduced this setup to my marina, 3 other mid size boat sailors
have followed suit. A Freedom 36, a Nonsuch 36, a C & C 40 and a
Hunter 40 all use this system.




On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:33:38 -0500, Courtney Thomas
wrote:

Marc,

What do you do, if anything, regarding the previously referred to
[potential] problem of....the drill's reaction force of ~50 lbs ?

Evan suggested a tether. Thoughts ?

Also, since a much less expensive AC drill can be had with similar
capabilities, why did you think the DC unit worth the difference,
especially since the batteries must be recharged anyway ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney



Marc wrote:

The Milwaukee 3109-24 right angle 18 volt drill delivers 600 inch lbs
of torque at the low side rpm of 350. I use this drill with a winch
head bit on the low speed side of my barient 27's to hoist a 500 sf
full batten main. Works out to approx 30 rpm at the winch at full
speed. Works like a charm. I get 4 hoists to a charge. No drawbacks
and I can decouple the tool and use it for other tasks. Buy an extra
battery and charge it off your inverter. $350.00 all up.


On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:50 -0500, Courtney Thomas
wrote:


I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney

Yes, I damaged my wrist using a Milwuakee 1/2" hammer drill, when it
kicked back. That drill's rotational axis is parallel to your arm and
resisting the rotational force is a problem. The Milwaukee right
angle drill's rotational force is perpendicular to its body and
therefore much more controlable.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:00:23 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
Marc,

What do you do, if anything, regarding the previously referred to
[potential] problem of....the drill's reaction force of ~50 lbs ?

Evan suggested a tether. Thoughts ?

Also, since a much less expensive AC drill can be had with similar
capabilities, why did you think the DC unit worth the difference,
especially since the batteries must be recharged anyway ?

I would definitely consider a length of cable shackled to a pad eye. When
my heavy duty drill grabs it is impossible to hold on. It could break your
arm.

The battery operated drill will be a little more mobile but mainly you don't
have a cable carrying 120VAC laying around the cockpit.

No AC away from the dock, but $40 is a good price to avoid hand cranking
someone up the mast. It gets a lot of use on my dock.

TSailor

TSailor,

If you also use the drill with the sails, what's your boat's
displacement and how big's your main sail, please ?

If you don't use it with the sails, why not ? Is it inadequate to the task
?

Appreciatively,
Courtney



TSailor wrote:

I use a very inexpensive 120 vac 1/2" drill motor from Harbor Freight
for
going up my mast. It works like a charm. Only trick is coming up with
the
bit that fits into the winch socket. Simple for any machine shop to
make.

Tsailor


If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?






--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

If you are going to only use it for raising sails why bother? The sails are
not that large on any of the boats mentioned and if you jump them from the
deck they are most of the way up prior to needing the winch.

I can see where you would want a RA drill for hauling someone up the mast if
you have no help but then the 120 ac model is fine at dock. On our old boat
I surged my wife up the mast with two halyards and no winch handles when the
kids are around. When the kids were not around I used a winch handle. Our
current boat has electric winches but we still raise the main by hand for
the first 75-80 feet then manually winch from there. Habit.

"Marc" wrote in message
...
There is no "resistance problem" The Milwaukee is a right angle drill,
D handle drill, approx 18" long. It is easily held and kick back is
readily controlled.

Since I do not have a generator or full sized inverter on board, I
prefer the Cordless unit. A small Inverter handles the recharging.
Also, it is Cordless, a major convenience.

Respectfully, you are overthinking this matter. $350 all up is your
downside risk and you can sell it on ebay if you are not happy. Since
I introduced this setup to my marina, 3 other mid size boat sailors
have followed suit. A Freedom 36, a Nonsuch 36, a C & C 40 and a
Hunter 40 all use this system.




On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:33:38 -0500, Courtney Thomas
wrote:

Marc,

What do you do, if anything, regarding the previously referred to
[potential] problem of....the drill's reaction force of ~50 lbs ?

Evan suggested a tether. Thoughts ?

Also, since a much less expensive AC drill can be had with similar
capabilities, why did you think the DC unit worth the difference,
especially since the batteries must be recharged anyway ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney



Marc wrote:

The Milwaukee 3109-24 right angle 18 volt drill delivers 600 inch lbs
of torque at the low side rpm of 350. I use this drill with a winch
head bit on the low speed side of my barient 27's to hoist a 500 sf
full batten main. Works out to approx 30 rpm at the winch at full
speed. Works like a charm. I get 4 hoists to a charge. No drawbacks
and I can decouple the tool and use it for other tasks. Buy an extra
battery and charge it off your inverter. $350.00 all up.


On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:50 -0500, Courtney Thomas
wrote:


I would like to try powering my main winches [Barient 28s] by a
[preferably] portable drill/impact wrench/etc., as at least an emergency
option.

Has anyone successfully done this ?

If yes, how'd you determine what you needed ? I see that there are now
numerous new portable ones that range up to 24v.

If portable ones are insufficient, how 'bout such as DeWalt and
Milwaukee 1/2" corded models ?

What has been found unsatisfactory about such an application ?

Appreciatively,
Courtney