Bleeding The Fuel System...is there a better way?
 

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

I have a pair of 2GM20's which should be very similar to the 1GM. Bleeding never
takes more the a few minutes. If the lever on the fuel pump doesn't work, it means
the cam that normally drives it from inside the engine is not lined up. It you turn
the engine over a bit (rotate the pulley a few inches) it should then work a lot
better.


"Chris Butler" wrote in message
om...
I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

Install an electric fuel pump.

Mike
********************

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

Are you (can you) prefill the new filter with Diesel before reinstalling it?
Otherwise I agree to install an electric fuel pump if it's that much of a
chore.

--


Keith
__
"People who say you're just as old as you feel are all wrong,
fortunately." - Russell Baker
"Chris Butler" wrote in message
om...
I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

Try filling the cup on the racor before you re-install it. That is all I
have ever had to do for it. Same with the filter on the engine, but it still
takes some pumping. I know you will probably spill some diesel fuel, but if
you're careful you should be able to contain it.


"Chris Butler" wrote in message
om...
(Chris Butler) wrote in message
. com...
I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?




Thanks for the responses. My issue is that fuel will pump but it seems
to take forever. I have tried turning the engine to get a point where
the lever on the oil pump will provide greater range. I 'seem' to find
that....it still takes forever.

Thanks Chris

In article ,
(Chris Butler) wrote:

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

One quick question. Are you cracking the fuel lines downstream of
each element as you go to allow the air to get out? I suspect that you
are not, and what is happeneing is that you are compressing the air in
the fuel lines downstream of each pump. You have to let the air out so
that the fuel can flow in. It shouldn't take any time at all if you let
the air escape. Most bigger engines have Bleeder Valve right before the
injector pump, that allows the air to go directly to the Return Line
untill the fuel gets that far. If not you need to crack the fuel line
to let the air escape.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

If you don't care for the smell of diesel , use ATF (the red stuff)
to fill your filters and bowls. Dump what's left from a quart into
your fuel tank. Injectors love it.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_


"Jim Lea" wrote in message
...
Try filling the cup on the racor before you re-install it. That is
all I
have ever had to do for it. Same with the filter on the engine, but
it still
takes some pumping. I know you will probably spill some diesel fuel,
but if
you're careful you should be able to contain it.


"Chris Butler" wrote in message
om...
(Chris Butler) wrote in message
. com...
I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that
runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have
changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of
every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the
engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour).
Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy.
My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the
engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not
seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the
way?




Thanks for the responses. My issue is that fuel will pump but it
seems
to take forever. I have tried turning the engine to get a point
where
the lever on the oil pump will provide greater range. I 'seem' to
find
that....it still takes forever.

Thanks Chris

Chris, Install a electric fuel pump. You will never go back. Chuck

Install a 12v DC fuel pump at the outlet of the tank and BEFORE the
filter set. When you need to bleed just turn on the 12v pump and
sequentually bleed everything until you reach the guard filter on the
engine. Such 12v pumps are arranged with diaphragm valves and will add
NO extra differential pressure requirements to the fuel system when not
operating .... they just sit there until needed.
BTW - be sure to specify a 12v pump that has EPDM
(ethylenePropyleneDiamineMonomer) gaskets and O-ring which are
compatible with diesel fuel.


In article , Chris
Butler wrote:

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

While it may be true that adding an electric fuel pump is a good thing, I'm a bit
surprised that so many people are advising that rather than considering why the OP has
a problem to start with. I've replaced the primary and secondary filters on Yanmar
2GM's a dozen times and never had to bleed for more than a few minutes. The OP said
it takes two hours to prime; I usually change both filters, bleed, and have the engine
running again in well under an hour.

On a slightly different topic, the Westerbeke I had on my last boat was "self
bleeding" so I never had a problem with this. What makes a system "self bleeding"?
Does it have a special valve to release the air bubbles?

"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Install a 12v DC fuel pump at the outlet of the tank and BEFORE the
filter set. When you need to bleed just turn on the 12v pump and
sequentually bleed everything until you reach the guard filter on the
engine. Such 12v pumps are arranged with diaphragm valves and will add
NO extra differential pressure requirements to the fuel system when not
operating .... they just sit there until needed.
BTW - be sure to specify a 12v pump that has EPDM
(ethylenePropyleneDiamineMonomer) gaskets and O-ring which are
compatible with diesel fuel.


In article , Chris
Butler wrote:

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

Even easier, pressurize the fuel tank with a shop vac set up to blow.
W edid this earlier this summer and it worked like a charm. We did
not even need to close the fuel tank vent as little pressure was
needed to move the fuel.

Matt

Rich Hampel wrote in message ...
Install a 12v DC fuel pump at the outlet of the tank and BEFORE the
filter set. When you need to bleed just turn on the 12v pump and
sequentually bleed everything until you reach the guard filter on the
engine. Such 12v pumps are arranged with diaphragm valves and will add
NO extra differential pressure requirements to the fuel system when not
operating .... they just sit there until needed.
BTW - be sure to specify a 12v pump that has EPDM
(ethylenePropyleneDiamineMonomer) gaskets and O-ring which are
compatible with diesel fuel.


In article , Chris
Butler wrote:

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

In article ,
(Chris Butler) wrote:

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

I think your problem may be that you don't fill the bowl, or have the
wrong Racor. Ours unscrews on top, the filter drops in. I can switch
filters without bleeding. When I do the primary (on the engine), it
takes about 5 minutes to bleed.

Note that there's a third bleed on the high pressure pump (follow the
line after the primary filter). Wasn't mentioned in our owner's guide
and it sometimes is the problem.

If you still have a problem, I "built" primer when I misdiagnosed a
problem: Outboard fuel bulb, hose and male and female fittings to let me
put it in line when I need to move a lot of fuel. Fills the bowl
quickly, then I take it out of line.

I also change filters in the Spring, after running for a while -- to
catch that spring load of critters.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Chris Butler) wrote:

I just finished winterizing my 2002 1GM10 Yanmar Diesel (that runs on
a Menger 19' Cat boat) and think there must be a better way of
bleeding the fuel system. For the past three seasons I have changed
the water seperator and paper filter on the engine at the end of every
season. Then I begin the huge task of pumping the Raycor water
seperator for the next hour until fuel starts flowing into the engine.
After that I start pumping the lever on the oil pump (1 hour). Once I
get fuel into the lines the rest of the bleeding goes very easy. My
hand afterwards is sore and battered! I have tried cranking the engine
for short bursts with the compression lever up (this does not seem to
help). Is there anyway to prime or help this process along the way?

I think your problem may be that you don't fill the bowl, or have the
wrong Racor. Ours unscrews on top, the filter drops in. I can switch
filters without bleeding. When I do the primary (on the engine), it
takes about 5 minutes to bleed.

Note that there's a third bleed on the high pressure pump (follow the
line after the primary filter). Wasn't mentioned in our owner's guide
and it sometimes is the problem.

If you still have a problem, I "built" primer when I misdiagnosed a
problem: Outboard fuel bulb, hose and male and female fittings to let me
put it in line when I need to move a lot of fuel. Fills the bowl
quickly, then I take it out of line.

I also change filters in the Spring, after running for a while -- to
catch that spring load of critters.


On my old 1GM, I had the same prob till I filled the racor and made
sure all of the lines were full of fuel too. THEN, i got an electric
pump, it makes bleeding the system a breeze. However, it is good to
know you can do it the old way.
The electric pump installs in series with the regular pump between the
racor and the mechanical pump. It was fairly cheap from JC Whitney.

I don't really understand the original posters problem. After changing both of
my filters on my 2GM it takes me about 3 minutes to bleed the system.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"