I been doin a lot o thinking about sailin lately, especially as my
date to go cruisin gets closer, mostly wondering why I do this. I
came up with several reasons.


1. Just cuz its fun to sail.

2. Seeing new places that can only be seen by boat is fun.

3. Companionship

4. Thrill seeking

5. An obsession with problem solving (my personal fav)

6. Choose yer own reasons.

1. Now, I have long had a larger boat (28' and before that 23') but
only recently built two 12' Minicups. For just plain sailing fun, the
Minicups beat the big boat by a mile. Given a choice, I'll sail them
over the big boat. In the past 20 yrs of sailing, I have had maybe 20
times of good sailing fun on the big boat, not a good investment if
sailing fun is the only reason.

2. Most large boats kept in the water see the same places and cannot
easily go far afield without taking a lot of time. However, the dream
is to go very far afield and this is seldom done. I am not sure the
investment has been justified. I wonder if a trailerable boat would
be better. The Minicups have already taken me several places I could
never sail in my big boat so although they are small, they have been a
great success. They cannot go to the Bahamas but thya go other
places.

3. I have always enjoyed the people I have met while cruising and the
boat nuts I have met at other times. With the two MiniCups, my kids
have enjoyed them immenseley, especially my son who can sail with his
friends and girls he meets.

4. I havent had the Minicups out in enough wind to scare me to death
so cannot compare to the big boat yet. The big boat has been a thrill
sometimes (as distinct from pure fun).

5. Both big and little boats allow for lots of problem solving.
However, the big boat allows me to excercise my real favorite,
navigation (yes, I am nuts, I like Trig.)

All this makes me wonder, are small boats more fun than big boats?
Should my next Big boat be a smaller trailerable big boat? Is the old
saying about boats being used in an amount inversely proportional to
their size true? What do y'all think?

1. Just cuz its fun to sail.
For me: making a good long run in a steady force 4 or 5, averaging 8 or
more knots for a couple of hours. Just whizzing along the waves, even
though you can do that easier in a small hobie.
2. Seeing new places that can only be seen by boat is fun.
Main reason are islands. You never go there unless by boat. Other shores
are easier to reach by plane.
3. Companionship
And loneliness! Alone at night with all other crew sleeping, in a gentle
breeze with the stars above...
4. Thrill seeking
See 1. Unless thrill is sailing in the South China sea, hoping not to be
pirated :-)
5. An obsession with problem solving (my personal fav)
As little as possible, but can be demanding and rewarding.
6. Choose yer own reasons.
Animal life! Only albatross you'll ever encounter will probably be on a
boat. Same with dolphins, whale, etc.
And one mo I forget the huge cost of running a boat very easily once
I'm under sail and I can pretend sailing is for free! ;-) And in
opposition to powerboating, it probably is.

Victor

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:50:32 +0200, A-MAze
wrote:

1. Just cuz its fun to sail.
For me: making a good long run in a steady force 4 or 5, averaging 8 or
more knots for a couple of hours. Just whizzing along the waves, even
though you can do that easier in a small hobie.

Indeed, that is why we have kept a boat (J36) for the last 15 seasons
that lacks most of the cruising amenities one might expect in that
length. It somewhat recalls the 5-0-5 we started sailing in 40 years
ago, but doesn't capsize and throw us in the water. :-)

2. Seeing new places that can only be seen by boat is fun.
Main reason are islands. You never go there unless by boat. Other shores
are easier to reach by plane.

Many of our favorite anchorages on the Maine coast are only accessible
with one's own (or bareboat) boat. But there are other lovely
anchorages barred to us by draft. I think sometimes of a drop-keel
trailer sailer, but none of them sail like the J.

3. Companionship
And loneliness! Alone at night with all other crew sleeping, in a gentle
breeze with the stars above...

Both. crossing the Gulf under a clear sky, and actually seeing the sky
turning around Polaris.

4. Thrill seeking
See 1. Unless thrill is sailing in the South China sea, hoping not to be
pirated :-)
5. An obsession with problem solving (my personal fav)
As little as possible, but can be demanding and rewarding.
6. Choose yer own reasons.
Animal life! Only albatross you'll ever encounter will probably be on a
boat. Same with dolphins, whale, etc.



Quite so. Sailing the Gulf of Maine through 25 years we have seen
yellow-footed albatross, many whales and dolphins, an enormous Great
White Shark, and, perhaps oddest of all, a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
The latter at anchor near Roque Island.




Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"Religious wisdom is to wisdom as military music is to music."

Parallax wrote:
I been doin a lot o thinking about sailin lately, especially as my
date to go cruisin gets closer, mostly wondering why I do this. I
came up with several reasons.


1. Just cuz its fun to sail.

Yes. Big time.


2. Seeing new places that can only be seen by boat is fun.

Not sure about this... there are not many places that can "only" be seen
by boat, and there are much more cost-effective & comfortable ways to
travel.


3. Companionship

Most people have to drag along an unwilling spouse.


4. Thrill seeking

Many hours of placid enjoyment interspersed with moments of stark terror.


5. An obsession with problem solving (my personal fav)

Not for me.


6. Choose yer own reasons.

1. Now, I have long had a larger boat (28' and before that 23') but
only recently built two 12' Minicups. For just plain sailing fun, the
Minicups beat the big boat by a mile.

That's because you chose the wrong big boat. See current thread on "fast
cruising boats." If you think the Minicup is fun, what would you do with
a Finn or a Johnson 18?



2. Most large boats kept in the water see the same places and cannot
easily go far afield without taking a lot of time.

Very true.


.... I wonder if a trailerable boat would
be better. The Minicups have already taken me several places I could
never sail in my big boat so although they are small, they have been a
great success. They cannot go to the Bahamas but thya go other
places.

My wife and I cruised most of the East Coast between Cape Cod &
Savannah, a few spots on the Gulf Coast, and many of the notable inland
lakes, in a 19' trailerable. We had it for ten years and loved it. We
went much further afield, more often, than anybody we know with a big
in-water boat... including retired friends...


3. I have always enjoyed the people I have met while cruising and the
boat nuts I have met at other times. With the two MiniCups, my kids
have enjoyed them immenseley, especially my son who can sail with his
friends and girls he meets.

This is a very big plus. There are a few jerks who sail, but they're in
the minority.


4. I havent had the Minicups out in enough wind to scare me to death
so cannot compare to the big boat yet. The big boat has been a thrill
sometimes (as distinct from pure fun).

That's when the real fun starts.


5. Both big and little boats allow for lots of problem solving.
However, the big boat allows me to excercise my real favorite,
navigation (yes, I am nuts, I like Trig.)

Don't know if that's nuts, it's an unusual taste. I like to work things
out on paper just because that way I am independent and I *know* it's right.


All this makes me wonder, are small boats more fun than big boats?

Heck yeah. Small boats are (usually) more responsive and give more
feedback. Greater sensation of what the boat is doing. Also the risks
are much lower (usually).

Should my next Big boat be a smaller trailerable big boat? Is the old
saying about boats being used in an amount inversely proportional to
their size true?

Most often that's true because the owner is busy working to make
payments. Sometimes it's not true... when I was a kid, one of the
biggest yachts in our club was a Cal 40 owned by a retired codger who
sat on it all day... he did not like to singlehand but he & I would take
the boat out. We got to be quite good friends.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:57:59 -0400, DSK wrote:

3. Companionship

Most people have to drag along an unwilling spouse.




Not me, I am glad to say. Barbara was the one who suggested the J36,
and she still loves it, 15 years later.

She retires next April, and we will spend the next 5 or 6 months
aboard, bumbling east whenever the weather is agreeable; staying put
when it isn't.

No long voyages, but Gulf of Maine for sure and Cabot Strait if we get
that far.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"Religious wisdom is to wisdom as military music is to music."

Every few months on rec.climbing there is a thread about "Why do we climb?"
I even remember something similar on rec.woodworking.

Short answer for all is that we enjoy the challenge, and occasionally the
thrill of accomplishment.

(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
All this makes me wonder, are small boats more fun than big boats?
Should my next Big boat be a smaller trailerable big boat? Is the old
saying about boats being used in an amount inversely proportional to
their size true? What do y'all think?

I don't think its the size; I think, for a boat in a slip, it is the
distance from your doorstep to the boat. For a trailerable, its the
distance from home to the water you want to sail. You likely use the
12ft'ers like I use my kayak, I can drag it with me anywhere, put in
anywhere there is a bank wide enough to step on, and I can be underway
in about 15 minutes. My 18ft trailerable sailboat, on the other
hand, requires towing to a ramp, at least 30 minutes of setup time,
and another 30 minutes to launch, park the car, yada yada; so its not
trivial.

The biggest restriction I think hangs on the fact that while one is
attached to a shore job, making a 10 day sail is limited to paid
vacation days, and thats the reason I don't own a big (32ft+ is big to
me) boat. Once seperated from the shore job, you can leave whenever,
and as long as you've got some frugal bones in you, you can enjoy
sailing serious distances and not eat to much into your reserve funds.
(Long distance to me would be Galveston to the Keys.)

In article ,
(Parallax) wrote:

I been doin a lot o thinking about sailin lately, especially as my
date to go cruisin gets closer, mostly wondering why I do this. I
came up with several reasons.


1. Just cuz its fun to sail.

2. Seeing new places that can only be seen by boat is fun.

3. Companionship

4. Thrill seeking

5. An obsession with problem solving (my personal fav)

6. Choose yer own reasons.

1. Now, I have long had a larger boat (28' and before that 23') but
only recently built two 12' Minicups. For just plain sailing fun,
the Minicups beat the big boat by a mile. Given a choice, I'll sail
them over the big boat. In the past 20 yrs of sailing, I have had
maybe 20 times of good sailing fun on the big boat, not a good
investment if sailing fun is the only reason.

2. Most large boats kept in the water see the same places and cannot
easily go far afield without taking a lot of time. However, the
dream is to go very far afield and this is seldom done. I am not
sure the investment has been justified. I wonder if a trailerable
boat would be better. The Minicups have already taken me several
places I could never sail in my big boat so although they are small,
they have been a great success. They cannot go to the Bahamas but
thya go other places.

3. I have always enjoyed the people I have met while cruising and
the boat nuts I have met at other times. With the two MiniCups, my
kids have enjoyed them immenseley, especially my son who can sail
with his friends and girls he meets.

4. I havent had the Minicups out in enough wind to scare me to death
so cannot compare to the big boat yet. The big boat has been a
thrill sometimes (as distinct from pure fun).

5. Both big and little boats allow for lots of problem solving.
However, the big boat allows me to excercise my real favorite,
navigation (yes, I am nuts, I like Trig.)

All this makes me wonder, are small boats more fun than big boats?
Should my next Big boat be a smaller trailerable big boat? Is the
old saying about boats being used in an amount inversely proportional
to their size true? What do y'all think?

A Minicup was my first boat; even did overnights camped out under the
tented sail. FUN boat & taught me a lot about sailing. It IS great for
the kids and around the anchorage. They're capable of pretty solid
winds; but I broke the mast step in the second season. It got a little
old when we ran out of nearby places, but I'd love to have it behind Xan
some days.

Moved up to a 21' trailed boat. Allowed having a friend for overnights &
longer. Gave us more regular weekend jaunts, and more reason to drive
further for a long weekend or so. Since it still handled like a dink and
couldn't sink, we got some great sailing skills in conditions far
tougher than we should have been out in. Since it floated in 6", we got
into some mighty nice places. Again, ran out of places within easy range
and a week (solo or dual) was a real trial. After a while, stepping the
mast each time got old, so we moored it out, anyway. Could do the
Bahamas in it, but stablity, stowage and creature comforts are low. That
boat would be pretty equivalent to your 31' tri.

Our current boat is similar to your 28. A month of two-up a wonderful
dream. I normally single-hand even when Pat's aboard. The sailing isn't
as intense (most days) or immediate, but there's a certain satisfaction
to coaxing past another boat on a long set of beats, or actually
fetching the anchorage you've been steering at for hours. Getting out of
a situation is a *real* rush -- after the shakes go away.

Finding yourself in the same situation and it not being a problem ....
priceless.

I find our 28 about a perfect size: Large enough to be comfortable for
two (plus) and stable; small, tough and manouverable enough that I do
not hesitate to try to get places that I wouldn't try in larger --or
smaller-- boats.

We got around the "same places" problem by moving the boat every year or
two to untouched areas. We're now docked about 2 hours away from home,
and have our choice of a half dozen or so sweet anchorages any weekend.
If we can get out Friday night, that number at least doubles.

As it happens, we often get "there" before the multi-hulls. When it's
rough, we usually do. If they're cruising like us, we almost always beat
them because we are designed for the "extra" weight; they aren't.

And I can stand up to put my pants on. After a few days out, that really
does make a difference.

If we weren't in such a primo cruising area, I would consider trailing
Xan before the 31' Tri you're considering. Trailing either is about
equivalent, but Xan's more capable and comfortable.

-----

Separate item. I have been a cabinent maker for many years,
professionally and privately. Though I completed the MiniCup in about a
week, building a larger boat --particularly a tri-- is out of range. I
can buy a proven boat for less than the tri could be built for,
particularly if I considered my time at even minimum wage. [One of Xan's
sisters sold for $4500 a few months ago. The sister was in better shape
than Xan's pics.]

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Parallax) wrote:

I been doin a lot o thinking about sailin lately, especially as my
date to go cruisin gets closer, mostly wondering why I do this. I
came up with several reasons.


1. Just cuz its fun to sail.

2. Seeing new places that can only be seen by boat is fun.

3. Companionship

4. Thrill seeking

5. An obsession with problem solving (my personal fav)

6. Choose yer own reasons.

1. Now, I have long had a larger boat (28' and before that 23') but
only recently built two 12' Minicups. For just plain sailing fun,
the Minicups beat the big boat by a mile. Given a choice, I'll sail
them over the big boat. In the past 20 yrs of sailing, I have had
maybe 20 times of good sailing fun on the big boat, not a good
investment if sailing fun is the only reason.

2. Most large boats kept in the water see the same places and cannot
easily go far afield without taking a lot of time. However, the
dream is to go very far afield and this is seldom done. I am not
sure the investment has been justified. I wonder if a trailerable
boat would be better. The Minicups have already taken me several
places I could never sail in my big boat so although they are small,
they have been a great success. They cannot go to the Bahamas but
thya go other places.

3. I have always enjoyed the people I have met while cruising and
the boat nuts I have met at other times. With the two MiniCups, my
kids have enjoyed them immenseley, especially my son who can sail
with his friends and girls he meets.

4. I havent had the Minicups out in enough wind to scare me to death
so cannot compare to the big boat yet. The big boat has been a
thrill sometimes (as distinct from pure fun).

5. Both big and little boats allow for lots of problem solving.
However, the big boat allows me to excercise my real favorite,
navigation (yes, I am nuts, I like Trig.)

All this makes me wonder, are small boats more fun than big boats?
Should my next Big boat be a smaller trailerable big boat? Is the
old saying about boats being used in an amount inversely proportional
to their size true? What do y'all think?

A Minicup was my first boat; even did overnights camped out under the
tented sail. FUN boat & taught me a lot about sailing. It IS great for
the kids and around the anchorage. They're capable of pretty solid
winds; but I broke the mast step in the second season. It got a little
old when we ran out of nearby places, but I'd love to have it behind Xan
some days.

Moved up to a 21' trailed boat. Allowed having a friend for overnights &
longer. Gave us more regular weekend jaunts, and more reason to drive
further for a long weekend or so. Since it still handled like a dink and
couldn't sink, we got some great sailing skills in conditions far
tougher than we should have been out in. Since it floated in 6", we got
into some mighty nice places. Again, ran out of places within easy range
and a week (solo or dual) was a real trial. After a while, stepping the
mast each time got old, so we moored it out, anyway. Could do the
Bahamas in it, but stablity, stowage and creature comforts are low. That
boat would be pretty equivalent to your 31' tri.

Our current boat is similar to your 28. A month of two-up a wonderful
dream. I normally single-hand even when Pat's aboard. The sailing isn't
as intense (most days) or immediate, but there's a certain satisfaction
to coaxing past another boat on a long set of beats, or actually
fetching the anchorage you've been steering at for hours. Getting out of
a situation is a *real* rush -- after the shakes go away.

Finding yourself in the same situation and it not being a problem ....
priceless.

I find our 28 about a perfect size: Large enough to be comfortable for
two (plus) and stable; small, tough and manouverable enough that I do
not hesitate to try to get places that I wouldn't try in larger --or
smaller-- boats.

We got around the "same places" problem by moving the boat every year or
two to untouched areas. We're now docked about 2 hours away from home,
and have our choice of a half dozen or so sweet anchorages any weekend.
If we can get out Friday night, that number at least doubles.

As it happens, we often get "there" before the multi-hulls. When it's
rough, we usually do. If they're cruising like us, we almost always beat
them because we are designed for the "extra" weight; they aren't.

And I can stand up to put my pants on. After a few days out, that really
does make a difference.

If we weren't in such a primo cruising area, I would consider trailing
Xan before the 31' Tri you're considering. Trailing either is about
equivalent, but Xan's more capable and comfortable.

-----

Separate item. I have been a cabinent maker for many years,
professionally and privately. Though I completed the MiniCup in about a
week, building a larger boat --particularly a tri-- is out of range. I
can buy a proven boat for less than the tri could be built for,
particularly if I considered my time at even minimum wage. [One of Xan's
sisters sold for $4500 a few months ago. The sister was in better shape
than Xan's pics.]

The Minicups (I built two) are a lot of fun and got me adicted to
boatbuilding. Currently I am building the Two-Paw-9 nesting dinghy to
replace my old Nautilus-8.
The threads getting sorta long so I'll address build vs buy in
another.

Thanks

"Jere Lull" wrote
....

As it happens, we often get "there" before the multi-hulls. When it's
rough, we usually do. If they're cruising like us, we almost always beat
them because we are designed for the "extra" weight; they aren't.


This comment seems odd to me. One of the oft-cited virtues of multihulls is that they
"get there" long before monohulls. This is certainly true in our case. We generally
sail 20% faster than comparable monohulls, we power at about 7.5 knots, and can
motorsail at 9 knots. On top of that, the ride is usually so easy that it isn't too
much of a burden to go 8 to 10 hours, or longer.

It is certainly true that overloading a multihull will slow it down proportionally
more the monohull. While this is noticeable in a midsize cat (such as our PDQ36) it
isn't "fatal" as long as some care is taken. We traveled for a year "fully loaded"
and generally considered ourselves the fastest cruising boat around. (Of course, we
weren't challenging any racing boats to a round-the-buoys race in light air.)

However, when you go below 30 feet, the options in cats get rather limited. For cats,
the bridge deck clearance get very small, so overloading can cause problems in a chop.
For trimarans, they are normally designed for speed, and are so light that overloading
would dramatically affect trim. For example, a F27 only weighs 2600 pounds - that's
probably equal to what we carried (including fluids).

So Jere, I'd be very curious as to which multihulls you think you're faster than, and
under what conditions.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup at
the deli."