yup, jeffies, every last boat manufacturer purposely reduces the performance of
its products by purposely installed those cruddy, huge drag inducing fixed
blade props. Why? Because, of course, they want to sell the suckers who
bought their boats to buy even bigger boats.

yeah, right, jeffies.


From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 9/5/2004 11:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

I made no such claims for a Westsail, which after all, has a hull speed of 7
knots.

Although the original poster has a Westsail, most of us don't. You opened
this
discussions to all boats when you claimed (in your first post in this
thread):

You will definitely will see a decent speed improvement under sail with a
folding prop

no, you won't. folding props only hve value for racing boats

The truth is that the very article you (mis)quoted said that the predicted
speed
loss from a 3 blade prop was an average of 1/3 knot, over a wide range of
conditions, up to 0.8 knots at higher speed. Since appendage resistance goes
up
with the square of speed, this is clearly a larger issue for lighter boats
that
are often around hull speed with smaller rigs.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, 70# at 7.5 knots = 1.6 hp. are you saying that a Westsail 32
sailing
in winds heavy enough to make the boat go 7.5 can motor just as fast with a
16
hp engine?

yeah, that is what you are saying whether you know it or not.

From: "Jeff Morris"
Date: 9/4/2004 10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
10% of max boat speed = 1/3 knot??

The "1/3 of a knot" was an average over a wide range of conditions.
Actually,
at the 7.5 knots where it had 70 pounds of drag, the loss was .8 knots,
over
10%. I would think that many sailors would consider eliminating this
drag
would be significant. Obviously, you don't. Perhaps if you sailed more,
you
would.



That one heap slow mutha boat.

I'm reading from the Jan 1,1995 article "MIT Propeller Test - Part 2."
The
Michigan Wheel 3-blade had about 70 pounds drag at 8 knots. This is a
huge
amount of drag, costing maybe 10% of boat speed. The earlier article
(Oct
1,
'93) had the same numbers plus a discussion on how much speed this
would
cost.
They predicted 1/3 of a knot improvement, averaged over a wide variety
of
conditions, for a 25 foot boat when removing a 3 blade prop.

I'd agree with some of your conclusions, especially that a folding prop
is
perhaps not useful for the OP's Westsail. Since a 2-blade fixed can be
lined
up
in the aperture to minimize drag, there's little reason to sacrifice
reverse
capability with a folder. I can't imagine trying to "crash stop" a
Westsail
with a poor performing prop.

However, this is not true for a lot of boats. Many fin keel boats have
the
prop
too far from the keel to benefit from lining it up. Boats with
Saildrives
don't
have that option. Light weight boats that rely on low drag would be
affected
worse by a high drag prop. And catamarans, with two props would have
double
the
drag with fixed props.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeff, are you sure of that 25 to 35 pound figure at 7 knots? I
recall
170#
at
5 knots.

35# at 7 knots is only about 3/4 hp. not worth thinking about.

If you insist on calling the Autoprop "feathering" then you have to
admit
its
a
pretty poor one, having 5 to 10 times the drag of other feathering
props.
For
example, in the MIT/Practical Sailor test, at about 7 knots the
Autoprop
had
10
pounds of drag, while the 2 and 3 blade Maxprop feathering props had
about
1
and
2 pounds respectively. The folding props were so low they weren't
shown.
10
pounds of drag is pretty good, compared to the 25 to 35 pounds for
many
of
the
props in the test, but it isn't the same as feathering. The
Autoprop
has
some
interesting properties, like very good performance in reverse, if
you
rev
it
up.


"Jim Richardson" wrote in message
...
On 04 Sep 2004 13:08:18 GMT,
JAXAshby wrote:
Then why did you post a definition of feathering, which fit the
autoprop?

it does not fit. not even close. and if you had not blown
$2,200
on
a
prop
hoping against hope you could make your boat *sail* faster you
would
know
the
difference.

Did the dealer tell you you could pass Island Packets and
Westsail
32
if
you
bought an auto-prop?



I didn't buy one JAXAshby. I simply wanted to know what you meant
by
calling it a non-feathering prop. Alas, I should have known better
than
to expect rational discourse from you.

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
'Windows' really does make a fine swear word, representing all
that's
taboo and awful - just like '****', '****', etc."
-- Mark Hughes, sdm