Meindert, dougies will argue on and on and on and on and on and on hoping you
forget what you originally said. dougiees is one dumb squat pretending to be
human.

Meindert Sprang wrote:
Ok, I'm going to argue this one only once: by mathematical definition, a
squared function is NOT asymptotic. Because, as you can read in any
mathematics book, an asymptote reaches infinity on one axis for a
defined
value on the other axis, while a squared function can reach infinity on
both
axes.

Oh, OK. I see now...

Please explain further... the power/speed graph can reach infinity on
both axes? Does this mean that we can have negative horsepower? That
would make for excellent fuel efficiency!

Sigh! With both axes I mean X and Y axis. And in our case only in the first
quadrant, where X and Y are positive.

Meindert

dogues, knock it off. your postings have no value in the real world.

From: DSK
Date: 9/1/2004 2:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Please explain further... the power/speed graph can reach infinity on
both axes? Does this mean that we can have negative horsepower? That
would make for excellent fuel efficiency!


Meindert Sprang wrote:
Sigh! With both axes I mean X and Y axis. And in our case only in the first
quadrant, where X and Y are positive.

Dammit, another great idea shot down... I thought we could have a boat
where if you put the engine in gear while you were sailing, it would
actually *produce* fuel.

Anyway, the power/speed curve will "approach infinity" much much much
sooner along the power axis (usually Y) than the speed axis (usually X).
That's the whole point.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King

yeah, sure. anything you say.



Date: 9/1/2004 6:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:55:48 -0400, DSK wrote:

Please explain further... the power/speed graph can reach infinity on
both axes? Does this mean that we can have negative horsepower? That
would make for excellent fuel efficiency!


Meindert Sprang wrote:
Sigh! With both axes I mean X and Y axis. And in our case only in the
first
quadrant, where X and Y are positive.

Dammit, another great idea shot down... I thought we could have a boat
where if you put the engine in gear while you were sailing, it would
actually *produce* fuel.


Actually, it's a reality. There are now electric aux motors that can recharge
battery banks by putting the drive in gear while sailing. Just one more thing
about boats you don't know. I'm a little surprised about this one, because
I'm
sure it's been mentioned in the magazines where you get most of your
"knowlege"


BB

Brian, go back to your art history classes. your post is bogus beyond
ridicule.

From: Brian Whatcott
Date: 9/1/2004 7:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:32:59 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I am puzzled. What quantity approaches an asymptote and against what
independent variable?
Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC

Count me as lunatic fringe. I see planing boats every day.
What you describe is not an asymptotic relation.
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

I hold that the situation I describe, though fanciful, is aptly
called asymptotic. Telling me that my description is not asymptotic as
I describe it, is called an assertion "Ex Cathedra". How are your
ecclesiastical affiliations?
//
If on further consideration, you might allow that there is SOME upper
power and speed for a given hull, then perhaps you might even describe
the relation as asymptotic?
Brian Whatcott Altus OK

No. Unless you can show an asymptotic function (mathematical) that
describes the situation.
///
In any case it is only a metaphor.
Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

Let me rise to the challenge, and hopefully demetaphoricate this
mathematical concept a little more for you with a worked example, as
given at the following URL
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/asymtote4.htm

Take a look at the third worked example on this page, it carries a
numerator in the second power, and a denominator in the first power.

This is somewhat like a practical thrust versus speed relation for a
hull. You will notice there may be a vertical asymptote, a slant
asymptote or a horizontal asymptote (though not both the latter,
obviously)

Hope this helps? It may also be responsive to Meindert's view [below]:

Meindert Sprang wrote:
Ok, I'm going to argue this one only once: by mathematical definition, a
squared function is NOT asymptotic. Because, as you can read in any
mathematics book, an asymptote reaches infinity on one axis for a defined
value on the other axis, while a squared function can reach infinity on
both
axes.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 23:09:41 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:32:59 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:

I am puzzled. What quantity approaches an asymptote and against what
independent variable?
Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC

Count me as lunatic fringe. I see planing boats every day.
What you describe is not an asymptotic relation.
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

I hold that the situation I describe, though fanciful, is aptly
called asymptotic. Telling me that my description is not asymptotic as
I describe it, is called an assertion "Ex Cathedra". How are your
ecclesiastical affiliations?
//
If on further consideration, you might allow that there is SOME upper
power and speed for a given hull, then perhaps you might even describe
the relation as asymptotic?
Brian Whatcott Altus OK

No. Unless you can show an asymptotic function (mathematical) that
describes the situation.
///
In any case it is only a metaphor.
Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

Let me rise to the challenge, and hopefully demetaphoricate this
mathematical concept a little more for you with a worked example, as
given at the following URL
http://www.purplemath.com/modules/asymtote4.htm

Take a look at the third worked example on this page, it carries a
numerator in the second power, and a denominator in the first power.

This is somewhat like a practical thrust versus speed relation for a
hull. You will notice there may be a vertical asymptote, a slant
asymptote or a horizontal asymptote (though not both the latter,
obviously)

"May be?" If there is an asymptote there is no maybe about it. It is
in the function.

Hope this helps? It may also be responsive to Meindert's view [below]:

Meindert Sprang wrote:
Ok, I'm going to argue this one only once: by mathematical definition, a
squared function is NOT asymptotic. Because, as you can read in any
mathematics book, an asymptote reaches infinity on one axis for a defined
value on the other axis, while a squared function can reach infinity on both
axes.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a

"WooWooism lives" Anon grafitto on the base of the Cuttyhunk breakwater light

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 23:39:16 -0400, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
///
Count me as lunatic fringe.
///
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

OK

blarney bill, this thread has turned towards a discussion of what constitutes
an asymptote and its potential use in describing the speed of a boat through
water, while *you* are babbling on about electric motors for small sailboat.

bb? maybe you want to ask your doctor for some Ritlin?



Date: 9/2/2004 6:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 02 Sep 2004 02:32:36 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

yeah, sure. anything you say.


Google it like you do everything else, jackax. There has been enough written
about it, that even you could find it if you look. There are now even a few
production sailboats that can be ordered with an optional electric aux motor.

BB



Date: 9/1/2004 6:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:55:48 -0400, DSK wrote:

Please explain further... the power/speed graph can reach infinity on
both axes? Does this mean that we can have negative horsepower? That
would make for excellent fuel efficiency!


Meindert Sprang wrote:
Sigh! With both axes I mean X and Y axis. And in our case only in the
first
quadrant, where X and Y are positive.

Dammit, another great idea shot down... I thought we could have a boat
where if you put the engine in gear while you were sailing, it would
actually *produce* fuel.


Actually, it's a reality. There are now electric aux motors that can
recharge
battery banks by putting the drive in gear while sailing. Just one more
thing
about boats you don't know. I'm a little surprised about this one, because
I'm
sure it's been mentioned in the magazines where you get most of your
"knowlege"


BB

"May be?" If there is an asymptote there is no maybe about it. It is
in the function.

Rodney, don't confuse 'em with science. it gives 'em headaches.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:46:31 GMT, Dan Best wrote:

I've really resisted jumping into this one, but....



This weekend in Olympia, Washington State, is the Harbor Days
festival. During Harbor Days are the well-known tug boat races. As a
sailor, I understand bow waves, hull speeds, and displacement hulls.
It is a pretty good bet that the 70' tug will beat the 35' tug. I
think the longer tug could win with the engine just above an idle.

But it is really amazing to watch the bow wave dynamics in action.
A 30 foot tug with 600 horsepower can build a HUGE bow wave and still
not pass its hull speed. The waves generated in this race are far
greater than the waves from cargo ships that are 10 times as long and
1,000 times larger.

In article ,
says...
Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
Count me as lunatic fringe. I see planing boats every day.

Planing boats have the same limit, in other words as they go faster,
each incremental increase in speed takes an increasing increment in
power. Eventually the power/speed curve gets just as steep as
displacement hulls...


Until you get past Mach 1, at least! ;-) after that point,
there are some inflection points in the power/speed curve, IIRC.

In any case, ALL power/speed curves seem to be asymptotic
to c (speed of light).

How's that for a 'reductio ad absurdum' argument?



What you describe is not an asymptotic relation.

?

Looks like it to me. It's just much farther to the right on the graph ;)
And on a Very large graph!


Mark Borgerson