On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:47:52 -0400, rhys wrote:

Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

To my mind, getting separate displays or "multi-function marine"
display at six or seven inches across is silly when you can have the
same info on an LCD screen in a waterproof bag on an armature in the
companionway. When needed, fire it up and pull the screen into
view...when finished, push it back into relative weather protection.

I have heard of people using infrared controls and wireless mice to
"click" between GPS, charts, radar and the evening news on LCDs hooked
into small PCs and the appropriate sensing units...the point is that
ANY relatively current PC is much more powerful and adaptable than a
single task-oriented "marine" display, like a chart plotter.

Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

What you say has a good deal of merit, IMHO. Just to be fair and
balanced, I'll mention the two downsides I've observed. First,
daylight visibility of commonly available and reasonably priced
displays is poor. Second, when the chips are down and the seas are
high, screwing around with a mouse and standard keyboard to setup
waypoints is a bit problematical. I have some thoughts about that, but
I haven't had a chance to experiment. My current approach is to keep
the standalone instruments, using the PC as a repeater. That gives me
the best of both worlds. Please excuse the blatant commercialism in
my standard sig. At least it's on topic...
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

napisal(a):
As a result Ive posted a few messages on the "nuts and
bolts" for doing such a thing

From all of this discussion I have learned that I have two choices:
Use a cheap, fixable and adptable Desk top PC with an LCD monitor to
hold power usage down, and an inverter to supply the power, or
use a laptop.
The first choice uses more epower, the second choice loses on
varsatility and fixability.
For me Computers is a learn-as-you-go thing and therefore I am leaning
to the cheap PC route. Maybe I can use the LCD monitor also as TV for
watching movies and therfore would get a larger monitor thatn usually
comes with a laptop.

I have a solution - get a desktop PC AND a laptop. With a decent laptop
you can do almost everything while sailing. And on a mooring, you plug
110/220AC, take the desktop out and work with all the flexability you
need. It's not so much money that one can't spend, but it solves both
problems, if you really need the desktop.

Using desktop with batteries is a stupid thing on a small boat - it
consumes 100Watt easily, plus the LCD another 30-40Watt, since it's
bright and not designed to save power. And you cannot suspend it. Laptop
consumes 60-80W and has several levels of power saving.

And remember, that the inverter generates a quite fair power loss.
--
Samotnik
www.zagle.org.pl - rejsy morskie

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:00:54 -0500, something compelled
, to say:

So....sounds like it just best to use laptops on sail
boats and such cause they are cheaper, use low power
components, etc

That is all true. And you can take it ashore to connect it to
your broadband Internet connection to download software or upload
files to your website. Or you can just take it ashore so nobody
steals the damm thing.

From all of this discussion I have learned that I have two choices:
Use a cheap, fixable and adptable Desk top PC with an LCD monitor to
hold power usage down, and an inverter to supply the power, or
use a laptop.
The first choice uses more epower, the second choice loses on
varsatility and fixability.

Yep that's what Ive learned as well

Maybe I can use the LCD monitor also as TV for
watching movies and therfore would get a larger monitor thatn usually
comes with a laptop.

That's another reason I was curious abt using a desktop
on a boat/ sail boat. I was thinking that one could
put a TV card in it and use it as a TV as well as
general use PC


see link for such cards and devices

http://tinyurl.com/6vdbb

In the link above there also exists a USB TV card that
I suppose one could use with a laptop as well, correct?

Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

Exactly. And that was the impetus for my question....
i.e. whether a single "box" or PC can be used for
multiple functions on a sail boat or any boat

Again.... I know NOTHING abt boats.... but just curios

And i really "prefer" desktop PCs cause they are more
flexible than laptop PCs in that one can open the
desktop up and work on them, adding things, etc.


Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

Good point!

Or maybe just have a backup box on hand at all times

Using desktop with batteries is a stupid thing on a small boat - it
consumes 100Watt easily, plus the LCD another 30-40Watt, since it's
bright and not designed to save power. And you cannot suspend it. Laptop
consumes 60-80W and has several levels of power saving.

Good point

And like I said earlier maybe it best to use a laptop
anyway for above reasons.

Also the economies of scale give us good deals on
laptops

You might look into Mini-ITX. Its the size and power consumption of a laptop,
but with pci slots and replaceable disk drives, etc. Of course, not that much
bang for the buck, compared to off the shelf stuff.



wrote in message
...
Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

Exactly. And that was the impetus for my question....
i.e. whether a single "box" or PC can be used for
multiple functions on a sail boat or any boat

Again.... I know NOTHING abt boats.... but just curios

And i really "prefer" desktop PCs cause they are more
flexible than laptop PCs in that one can open the
desktop up and work on them, adding things, etc.


Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

Good point!

Or maybe just have a backup box on hand at all times

You might look into Mini-ITX. Its the size and power consumption of a laptop,
but with pci slots and replaceable disk drives, etc. Of course, not that much
bang for the buck, compared to off the shelf stuff.

Do you mean small form factor computers like this
Shuttle?

Like one in link?

http://us.shuttle.com/SB81P.asp

If yes..... this is the model I was wondering COULD be
used for boating applications.

Just to share about my setup.

I have a used Pentium II with 256 Mb of RAM (total cost 100 $). I run
Windows 2000 for stability with most services disabled (i'm a computer
professional) to save on performance. The hard disk is partitionned in C:
and D: and the physical disk is on a drawer which mean it can be easily
removed when i'm afraid of being stolen or for reconfiguration purpose.
The hard disk is a 20 Gb and hold all marine card and 5000 MP3 that i carry
aboard. (total cost of disk + drawer 100 $).

The screen is a 12 Volt native Proview 12 inches (total cost 250 $) and
visibility is very good but i'm not in direct sunlight, i'm inside the
boat.. The computer is feeded by a 300 watt inverted and amperage while
running is about 10 A. Truly said it is a lot of Amps, when someone think
that my freezer draws only 4 A when working....

A laptop (i got 2 but not on the boat) would draw only 3 A. The 7 A of
difference between the PC and the laptop is largely overcome by an energy
management strategy (hibernate the PC when not in use and having separate
starting/auxiliaries batteries) and by the fact that it is fairly cheap,
cannot be stolen because the PC is bolted under the floor of the boat, and
could be repaired/replaced anywhere.

Have this configuration for 3 years without any problem and now with WiFi in
most marina the pleasure is just beginning.

Cheers

André
Auxiliary Coast Guard "Le Nomade"

wrote in message
...
From all of this discussion I have learned that I have two choices:
Use a cheap, fixable and adptable Desk top PC with an LCD monitor to
hold power usage down, and an inverter to supply the power, or
use a laptop.
The first choice uses more epower, the second choice loses on
varsatility and fixability.

Yep that's what Ive learned as well

Maybe I can use the LCD monitor also as TV for
watching movies and therfore would get a larger monitor thatn usually
comes with a laptop.

That's another reason I was curious abt using a desktop
on a boat/ sail boat. I was thinking that one could
put a TV card in it and use it as a TV as well as
general use PC


see link for such cards and devices

http://tinyurl.com/6vdbb

In the link above there also exists a USB TV card that
I suppose one could use with a laptop as well, correct?

I think they are similar, but the mini-ITX is made by VIA. The motherboard is
very complete. I put together an ME-6000 system with a DVD player and a TV
card. Its powered off a "brick" although you could probably use boat DC power
if you weren't afraid of regulation issues. (I would simply use a small
inverter.)

I've been a bit disappointed - the case had a noisy fan and trying to slow the
fan allows the cpu to overheat. And some of the advertised features simply
don't work because VIA doesn't always supply promised drivers. But it is cute,
and low enough power to leave it on all the time. And like a desktop machine, I
can take it apart and swap out components.

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/



wrote in message
...
You might look into Mini-ITX. Its the size and power consumption of a
laptop,
but with pci slots and replaceable disk drives, etc. Of course, not that
much
bang for the buck, compared to off the shelf stuff.

Do you mean small form factor computers like this
Shuttle?

Like one in link?

http://us.shuttle.com/SB81P.asp

If yes..... this is the model I was wondering COULD be
used for boating applications.