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Shake and Break Part 10
Shake and Break Part 10 - June 1, 2015
Well, we left you at what we thought was the end of stuff breaking which needed resolution before we could move on. We plan, God laughs, so here we are, again, with what is now Part 10. Those of you who have been looking on for the last few years will recall that we have done what amounts to a major refit, starting with a 20-month stint in a boatyard, and the remainder, since January 26th, 2013, afloat. Once we had splashed following our boatyard work, we were assailed, without fail, with something which MUST be resolved before we could move on again. However, in literally every case, whether immediately after we anchored, or just before we expected to leave, there was a gamestopper - something which had to be addressed in order to move the boat to the next anchorage. Interspersed in all that were two weddings and a funeral, and 5 more grandchildren, with, currently, yet another cooking; those events might possibly be blamed for the cumulative 15 or so months that we've been traveling for that purpose. So, while it sounds, perhaps, whiney, it's really all good. As well, there were no scary moments in those gamestoppers; we are blessed to say that every one of them was resolved in a non-threatening atmosphere. Well, that is, if you ignore your pocketbook, as the cost has been that of a major refit rather than just taking care of the boat. Our latest "gotta do this before we can leave" (except that we have to come back to be able to leave, again) is that Lydia's almost-90-year-old mother recently fell and broke her right arm and wrist. While she's been a lifelong amazing healer, at her age, all bets are off. Then, there's the issue of dealing with all the minutiae of everyday life without the use of your right arm, and the complexity of money matters for which she's ill-equipped, at the moment. So, we're heading back to Vero Beach for a while or forever, depending on how it works out, as we can't leave, again, until those matters are resolved to the degree that she doesn't need us at an immediate availability. So, that's why the title. And, that's only the bad news. The good news is that all indications are that she will bounce back more quickly than anyone expects. However, having been through some shoulder surgeries myself, I understand how difficult it is to regain use of that joint once it's been opened, let alone damaged. So, we'll see. However, we're optimistic about being able to return for Stranded Naked, a huge boat party on the 4th of July - but, of course, circumstances will dictate. The very good news is that we've had a great time since we came across, earlier in the series. As I'm literally about to up-anchor and sail off on the first part of our trip back, I'll truncate my travels to say that we've been bouncing back and forth among various islands in the Abacos chain. Some of the transits have been a brief motor directly into the wind (an axiom in cruising is that the wind is always coming from where you want to go), and others, as the distances are very short, have been done with genoa only. One of those trips was to get to Man O' War, where we got a new zipper for our front roll-up window, and some minor (yet critical!) repairs to our genoa stitching. Sail stitching and bimini enclosure zippers are consumables in practical terms; they suffer from all the ultraviolet exposure they get, and eventually have to be replaced; doing it in the Bahamas is a bit more challenging than if we were next to shore, with a vehicle, but it's still all very good. Amazingly, the sailmaker we used was one of the very first folks we saw in Abaco years ago, as they happened to be anchored near the first island on which we and our two granddaughters stepped. Retired from cruising, but keeping his amazing wooden ketch, Jay runs a full-service sail loft out of the bottom level of his 3-story home on Dickey Cay, and soon had our work done at prices similar to what we've found in the US. The Bahamas has instituted, starting this year, a 7.5% VAT along with a wholesale (pardon the expression) revamping of their import duty schedule. The result has been that some prices are much the same as they were, but many have gone up dramatically. Examples include the local light beer (brewed in the Bahamas) being, now, in case quantities, as LOW as $3.24 a (12 oz.) CAN. Diesel and Gasoline are about a third to half higher than US marina prices, which generally are significantly higher than street-side gas station prices. So, it was a bit of a shock to find ourselves paying well over $5 per gallon of gas, and close to that in Diesel. A commonplace loaf of bread is $7, and the locally baked breads (delicious!) are $10/loaf, as compared to the widely available $3 loaves the last time we were here. We used to wonder how the average Bahamian made it; with this new cost structure, it's nearly incomprehensible. The Bahamians used to have no taxes, with all the revenue being customs-derived. There's still customs, with, apparently, many increases, but another 7.5% tacked on top. Still, fancy cars (and cars, at all) abound, or golf carts, on the smaller islands, and, in general, folks looked slightly more prosperous than the last time we were here. As (morning Cruisers' VHF) net anchor, I try to stop in and say hello to the various businesses we have advertising their offerings; all of them have said that this is the best year in a great long while. I certainly hope it continues; they deserve it, and we cruisers need them available when we find ourselves benefiting from their services. So, back to the shake-and-break, there have been added little stuff that I'll try to attend to when we're back in Vero Beach. We have found that I can work on the boat while Lydia works on her mother, so I'll address the most recent oopsie, a leak in our waterlift muffler. On most marine engines, the exhaust is cooled with raw water which is propelled from the exhaust stream by the volume of the exhaust. That water has first been through a heat exchanger which takes the nominal place of a radiator such as you'd have on a car. The reason for it going out with the exhaust is that it's only warm, not exhaust-pipe hot. There are some boats with a hot stack-type exhaust, but they're usually large commercial vessels. Making those exhausts safe for being around takes a bit of a different approach. Cooling the exhaust makes it possible to put your hand on the exhaust pipe as it leaves the engine, as it's merely warm. However, there's a great volume of water which goes with it. Common marine engines use a container into which the engine exhaust, along with the cooling water, is pushed. The intake line is just open into the top portion (ours comes in the side, some come in the top), while the exhaust line is a fiberglass tube which goes to within a few inches of the bottom of the container. Ours is a 12" diameter fiberglass tube about 15" tall. When the water rises to the level of the exhaust tube, it's spat out by the pressure of the exhaust. However, we've developed a leak in the bottom. I've already re-fiberglassed the intake tube and the entire top of this muffler, so it's no particular surprise to see the bottom now leaking. The very good news for us is that the volume of water involved is so much that it never runs dry, so we have no exhaust gasses escaping into the engine room. Repair will involve removing the muffler, a bit convoluted, but of no great moment, inspecting the bottom, and fiberglassing the fault area. Likely, I'll reglass the entire thing, as if one place was weak, likely there would be others which developed. Indeed, my redo on the top was the second time I did it. When I sanded it down, I kept discovering added places where a leak was happening, and decided to redo it all. As that DID put not only exhaust gasses, but a salt-water mist into the engine room, remedying that was a big deal at the time. The engine gasses left soot everywhere, and the salt spray did some serious damage to some electronics in the engine room, to boot. This problem only puts out water, the water preventing the exhaust gasses from making it out the bottom. A side effect to that leak is that the water in there of course, leaks out when the engine's not running. As such, instead of having a reservoir of water in the bottom of the muffler, it's dry. That's cause for a minor potential heart attack for any raw-water-engined boat's owner when he inspects the output of the exhaust. There SHOULD be a lot of water coming out, in spurts (unless it's wide open throttle, in which case it's pretty much constant) - but, initially, there's none. Normally, that would mean that the system isn't getting any cooling water. Clogged intake, clogged filter, or bad water pump impeller, assuming everything else looks OK, all of which have to be addressed if you don't want a serious overheat event, and, if it's one of the first two, a ruined otherwise-good impeller, initiating a rebuild of that portion of the seawater pump. Once I'd regained my breath and thought about it, I realized that I just hadn't put enough water in the system yet; raising my RPM above an idle did the trick. The water was coming through to the exhaust just fine. However, that leak in the muffler puts a great deal of water (but, hooray, no engine exhaust) into the bilge, which means the pumps come on a great deal more often (usually never) than normally. That's not a critical event, but a nuisance which can wait until I'm not trying to see a bunch of islands we sailed right past on our way in. On which subject, you can see our trip by going to tinyurl.com/FlyingPigSpotwalla. You don't need a leading www in the URL, which translates to a very cumbersome address (so you don't have to!) which shows the entirety of our travels since I started using the page. However, to see where we've been on this trip, go to the top left-ish of the page and click the drop-down arrow next to our name. Click on "adjustments" and select the period you wish to see. We left on this trip on May 30th... So far, it's been very light winds. However, there are ominous forecasts for next week in which our weather forecaster has suggested we seek shelter. He's normally extremely conservative, so we're not entirely concerned, but if you look at the path of our boat, you'll see that we're sort of out in the middle of nowhere. However, local weather forecasts from more than one site all have winds in the very manageable under-20 knot range. However, there is a 48 hour period where both sites expect over 2" of rain. We certainly hope so, as we'd love to fill our tanks, again, with that lovely sweet, soft, free rainwater. It turns out that we only had to switch tanks at the end of the day our first day out. As that tank was smaller by a third than our main tank, we've apparently been very frugal with our use, as it's rare that we get that long on the smaller tank. Another ongoing chore is "mowing the lawn." That's what cruisers call cleaning the grass off the bottom. Here in the Bahamas, that's as bad as it gets; when we are back in Vero Beach, even if it's only for a week or less, we'll have developed barnacles, grass and slime. All of these slow the boat down. So, on the 31st, before we left our anchorage, as the wind was nearly nonexistent, we went around the boat and both scraped and brushed off the waterline area. Scraping gets the big stuff, but the lower layers respond better to a very stiff brush. In addition, the way our bottom is painted, the paint is designed to slough off (ough?) as it's used, retarding growth in the meantime. Scraping doesn't really rejuvenate the surface, but scrubbing with a brush does, as witnessed by the small cloud of paint being rubbed off. That exposes a new surface, complete with its copper, which helps keep the growth at bay. If we sailed often enough, we'd not need to scrub, as the natural friction of the water would expose the new layer. We painted two different colors of bottom paint to give us an idea of how long would our bottom job would last. If we did a good job of how much went where, the first coat should wear off relatively evenly, and start exposing the next color down pretty much all over the hull. Currently we can see the faintest traces of black under our primary red color. That means we got more than (we're hardly finished yet!) 2 years from the first coat. We well might make it to 3 before it's really gone. So, we're hopeful that we'll see at least the 4 years we saw on the job we did in our first cruising segment, 8 years ago. As I write, June 1 is peeking over my shoulder, so I'll stop here. Will we get all that rain? Will we see terrible winds, and wish we were in a harbor (harbour in the Bahamas)? Will we have a benign crossing of the Gulf Stream, which strikes fear and trembling into the hearts of all sailing cruisers for the mayhem possible in the wrong kind of weather? Will we make it to Vero by June 10th in order to meet Lydia's mother on the way out of the rehab facility? Well, as always, you'll just have to wait. Until next time - Stay Tuned! L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land. - Dr. Samuel Johnson |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 20:50:00 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: Shake and Break Part 10 - June 1, 2015 Well, we left you at what we thought was the end of stuff breaking which needed resolution before we could move on. We plan, God laughs, so here we are, again, with what is now Part 10. Those of you who have been looking on for the last few years will recall that we have done what amounts to a major refit, starting with a 20-month stint in a boatyard, and the remainder, since January 26th, 2013, afloat. Once we had splashed following our boatyard work, we were assailed, without fail, with something which MUST be resolved before we could move on again. However, in literally every case, whether immediately after we anchored, or just before we expected to leave, there was a gamestopper - something which had to be addressed in order to move the boat to the next anchorage. Interspersed in all that were two weddings and a funeral, and 5 more grandchildren, with, currently, yet another cooking; those events might possibly be blamed for the cumulative 15 or so months that we've been traveling for that purpose. So, while it sounds, perhaps, whiney, it's really all good. As well, there were no scary moments in those gamestoppers; we are blessed to say that every one of them was resolved in a non-threatening atmosphere. Well, that is, if you ignore your pocketbook, as the cost has been that of a major refit rather than just taking care of the boat. Our latest "gotta do this before we can leave" (except that we have to come back to be able to leave, again) is that Lydia's almost-90-year-old mother recently fell and broke her right arm and wrist. While she's been a lifelong amazing healer, at her age, all bets are off. Then, there's the issue of dealing with all the minutiae of everyday life without the use of your right arm, and the complexity of money matters for which she's ill-equipped, at the moment. So, we're heading back to Vero Beach for a while or forever, depending on how it works out, as we can't leave, again, until those matters are resolved to the degree that she doesn't need us at an immediate availability. So, that's why the title. And, that's only the bad news. The good news is that all indications are that she will bounce back more quickly than anyone expects. However, having been through some shoulder surgeries myself, I understand how difficult it is to regain use of that joint once it's been opened, let alone damaged. So, we'll see. However, we're optimistic about being able to return for Stranded Naked, a huge boat party on the 4th of July - but, of course, circumstances will dictate. The very good news is that we've had a great time since we came across, earlier in the series. As I'm literally about to up-anchor and sail off on the first part of our trip back, I'll truncate my travels to say that we've been bouncing back and forth among various islands in the Abacos chain. Some of the transits have been a brief motor directly into the wind (an axiom in cruising is that the wind is always coming from where you want to go), and others, as the distances are very short, have been done with genoa only. One of those trips was to get to Man O' War, where we got a new zipper for our front roll-up window, and some minor (yet critical!) repairs to our genoa stitching. Sail stitching and bimini enclosure zippers are consumables in practical terms; they suffer from all the ultraviolet exposure they get, and eventually have to be replaced; doing it in the Bahamas is a bit more challenging than if we were next to shore, with a vehicle, but it's still all very good. Amazingly, the sailmaker we used was one of the very first folks we saw in Abaco years ago, as they happened to be anchored near the first island on which we and our two granddaughters stepped. Retired from cruising, but keeping his amazing wooden ketch, Jay runs a full-service sail loft out of the bottom level of his 3-story home on Dickey Cay, and soon had our work done at prices similar to what we've found in the US. The Bahamas has instituted, starting this year, a 7.5% VAT along with a wholesale (pardon the expression) revamping of their import duty schedule. The result has been that some prices are much the same as they were, but many have gone up dramatically. Examples include the local light beer (brewed in the Bahamas) being, now, in case quantities, as LOW as $3.24 a (12 oz.) CAN. Diesel and Gasoline are about a third to half higher than US marina prices, which generally are significantly higher than street-side gas station prices. So, it was a bit of a shock to find ourselves paying well over $5 per gallon of gas, and close to that in Diesel. A commonplace loaf of bread is $7, and the locally baked breads (delicious!) are $10/loaf, as compared to the widely available $3 loaves the last time we were here. We used to wonder how the average Bahamian made it; with this new cost structure, it's nearly incomprehensible. The Bahamians used to have no taxes, with all the revenue being customs-derived. There's still customs, with, apparently, many increases, but another 7.5% tacked on top. Still, fancy cars (and cars, at all) abound, or golf carts, on the smaller islands, and, in general, folks looked slightly more prosperous than the last time we were here. As (morning Cruisers' VHF) net anchor, I try to stop in and say hello to the various businesses we have advertising their offerings; all of them have said that this is the best year in a great long while. I certainly hope it continues; they deserve it, and we cruisers need them available when we find ourselves benefiting from their services. So, back to the shake-and-break, there have been added little stuff that I'll try to attend to when we're back in Vero Beach. We have found that I can work on the boat while Lydia works on her mother, so I'll address the most recent oopsie, a leak in our waterlift muffler. On most marine engines, the exhaust is cooled with raw water which is propelled from the exhaust stream by the volume of the exhaust. That water has first been through a heat exchanger which takes the nominal place of a radiator such as you'd have on a car. The reason for it going out with the exhaust is that it's only warm, not exhaust-pipe hot. There are some boats with a hot stack-type exhaust, but they're usually large commercial vessels. Making those exhausts safe for being around takes a bit of a different approach. Cooling the exhaust makes it possible to put your hand on the exhaust pipe as it leaves the engine, as it's merely warm. However, there's a great volume of water which goes with it. Common marine engines use a container into which the engine exhaust, along with the cooling water, is pushed. The intake line is just open into the top portion (ours comes in the side, some come in the top), while the exhaust line is a fiberglass tube which goes to within a few inches of the bottom of the container. Ours is a 12" diameter fiberglass tube about 15" tall. When the water rises to the level of the exhaust tube, it's spat out by the pressure of the exhaust. However, we've developed a leak in the bottom. I've already re-fiberglassed the intake tube and the entire top of this muffler, so it's no particular surprise to see the bottom now leaking. The very good news for us is that the volume of water involved is so much that it never runs dry, so we have no exhaust gasses escaping into the engine room. Repair will involve removing the muffler, a bit convoluted, but of no great moment, inspecting the bottom, and fiberglassing the fault area. Likely, I'll reglass the entire thing, as if one place was weak, likely there would be others which developed. Indeed, my redo on the top was the second time I did it. When I sanded it down, I kept discovering added places where a leak was happening, and decided to redo it all. As that DID put not only exhaust gasses, but a salt-water mist into the engine room, remedying that was a big deal at the time. The engine gasses left soot everywhere, and the salt spray did some serious damage to some electronics in the engine room, to boot. This problem only puts out water, the water preventing the exhaust gasses from making it out the bottom. A side effect to that leak is that the water in there of course, leaks out when the engine's not running. As such, instead of having a reservoir of water in the bottom of the muffler, it's dry. That's cause for a minor potential heart attack for any raw-water-engined boat's owner when he inspects the output of the exhaust. There SHOULD be a lot of water coming out, in spurts (unless it's wide open throttle, in which case it's pretty much constant) - but, initially, there's none. Normally, that would mean that the system isn't getting any cooling water. Clogged intake, clogged filter, or bad water pump impeller, assuming everything else looks OK, all of which have to be addressed if you don't want a serious overheat event, and, if it's one of the first two, a ruined otherwise-good impeller, initiating a rebuild of that portion of the seawater pump. Once I'd regained my breath and thought about it, I realized that I just hadn't put enough water in the system yet; raising my RPM above an idle did the trick. The water was coming through to the exhaust just fine. However, that leak in the muffler puts a great deal of water (but, hooray, no engine exhaust) into the bilge, which means the pumps come on a great deal more often (usually never) than normally. That's not a critical event, but a nuisance which can wait until I'm not trying to see a bunch of islands we sailed right past on our way in. One point. That muffler isn't really a necessity for the operation of the engine, in fact I have never owned a boat that had such a device. You simply make sure that the exhaust hose goes down after leaving the engine and if you are planning on making very long voyages without using the engine you can add a "drain valve" to the exhaust pipe coming out of the engine, just in case any water gets slopped up there. One philosophy that I found useful when "messing around in boats" is "the less stuff you have, the less problems you have" :-) On which subject, you can see our trip by going to tinyurl.com/FlyingPigSpotwalla. You don't need a leading www in the URL, which translates to a very cumbersome address (so you don't have to!) which shows the entirety of our travels since I started using the page. However, to see where we've been on this trip, go to the top left-ish of the page and click the drop-down arrow next to our name. Click on "adjustments" and select the period you wish to see. We left on this trip on May 30th... So far, it's been very light winds. However, there are ominous forecasts for next week in which our weather forecaster has suggested we seek shelter. He's normally extremely conservative, so we're not entirely concerned, but if you look at the path of our boat, you'll see that we're sort of out in the middle of nowhere. However, local weather forecasts from more than one site all have winds in the very manageable under-20 knot range. However, there is a 48 hour period where both sites expect over 2" of rain. We certainly hope so, as we'd love to fill our tanks, again, with that lovely sweet, soft, free rainwater. It turns out that we only had to switch tanks at the end of the day our first day out. As that tank was smaller by a third than our main tank, we've apparently been very frugal with our use, as it's rare that we get that long on the smaller tank. Another ongoing chore is "mowing the lawn." That's what cruisers call cleaning the grass off the bottom. Here in the Bahamas, that's as bad as it gets; when we are back in Vero Beach, even if it's only for a week or less, we'll have developed barnacles, grass and slime. All of these slow the boat down. So, on the 31st, before we left our anchorage, as the wind was nearly nonexistent, we went around the boat and both scraped and brushed off the waterline area. Scraping gets the big stuff, but the lower layers respond better to a very stiff brush. In addition, the way our bottom is painted, the paint is designed to slough off (ough?) as it's used, retarding growth in the meantime. Scraping doesn't really rejuvenate the surface, but scrubbing with a brush does, as witnessed by the small cloud of paint being rubbed off. That exposes a new surface, complete with its copper, which helps keep the growth at bay. If we sailed often enough, we'd not need to scrub, as the natural friction of the water would expose the new layer. We painted two different colors of bottom paint to give us an idea of how long would our bottom job would last. If we did a good job of how much went where, the first coat should wear off relatively evenly, and start exposing the next color down pretty much all over the hull. Currently we can see the faintest traces of black under our primary red color. That means we got more than (we're hardly finished yet!) 2 years from the first coat. We well might make it to 3 before it's really gone. So, we're hopeful that we'll see at least the 4 years we saw on the job we did in our first cruising segment, 8 years ago. As I write, June 1 is peeking over my shoulder, so I'll stop here. Will we get all that rain? Will we see terrible winds, and wish we were in a harbor (harbour in the Bahamas)? Will we have a benign crossing of the Gulf Stream, which strikes fear and trembling into the hearts of all sailing cruisers for the mayhem possible in the wrong kind of weather? Will we make it to Vero by June 10th in order to meet Lydia's mother on the way out of the rehab facility? Well, as always, you'll just have to wait. Until next time - Stay Tuned! L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land. - Dr. Samuel Johnson -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
wrote in message ...
One point. That muffler isn't really a necessity for the operation of the engine, in fact I have never owned a boat that had such a device. You simply make sure that the exhaust hose goes down after leaving the engine and if you are planning on making very long voyages without using the engine you can add a "drain valve" to the exhaust pipe coming out of the engine, just in case any water gets slopped up there. One philosophy that I found useful when "messing around in boats" is "the less stuff you have, the less problems you have" :-) \ Yes, I know. I even have a length of pipe (which I've used before, when the intake tube joint failed) to make the joint between the exhaust riser and the exit hose if I remove the muffler from the path. It's a simple, albeit a bit convoluted fix. In the unlikely event the bottom blows out before we get back, I'll bypass it. We're currently expecting very wet but manageable weather, and we might even have enough wind to sail back once we're done with our on-the-way-out explorations. Stay tuned for the next log, still under way (stuff happening). So far it's a lot of fun. L8R Skip, between the top of Nunjack/Manjack and Powell, on the way to Cooperstown to check out all the seeming new development there since our last Explorer Charts (you can see it in real time at the moment at the spotwalla link in the original) Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land. - Dr. Samuel Johnson |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/1/2015 6:50 PM, Flying Pig wrote:
it to Vero by June 10th in order to meet Lydia's mother on the way out of the rehab facility? Well, as always, you'll just have to wait. Until next time - Stay Tuned! I'm not sure if I admire your persistence in having to address these breakages (often the same ones) over and over or question your sanity. I found the joys of luxury not sufficiently wondrous to justify the constant cost and bother of maintenance on a complex boat. Mine wasn't even that bad. I spoke to a fellow having, IIRC, a 52' Little Harbor sail boat. He said he always had at least three systems out of commission or partly working at any given time. No human could get all his boat working per design. I have to question one thing. You say that the ablative bottom coating, when brushed, exposes new 'copper'. I thought that illegal. If you could use copper, I doubt you'd need the ablative aspect of the coating. Anyway, if you must be in one place, Velcro Beach (as we called it because we were reluctant to leave) is a darned nice place to be stuck in. -paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
"Paul Cassel" wrote in message ...
On 6/1/2015 6:50 PM, Flying Pig wrote: it to Vero by June 10th in order to meet Lydia's mother on the way out of the rehab facility? Well, as always, you'll just have to wait. Until next time - Stay Tuned! My apologies - Windows Live Mail doesn't do attribution marks... I'm not sure if I admire your persistence in having to address these breakages (often the same ones) over and over or question your sanity. I found the joys of luxury not sufficiently wondrous to justify the constant cost and bother of maintenance on a complex boat. \ Well, boats and their gear need maintenance. Much of what I've done is of that nature - but in a precipitous fashion, meaning there was a significant failure requiring resolution at the time. Had those shown up at less crucial times, it would just be on the maintenance list. Mine wasn't even that bad. I spoke to a fellow having, IIRC, a 52' Little Harbor sail boat. He said he always had at least three systems out of commission or partly working at any given time. No human could get all his boat working per design. \ Oy. That would have to be frustrating. Mine were all one-at-a-time'ers. I have to question one thing. You say that the ablative bottom coating, when brushed, exposes new 'copper'. I thought that illegal. If you could use copper, I doubt you'd need the ablative aspect of the coating. \ Semantics. A NEW LAYER of copper-rich paint. At least when we applied it, the law allowed using copper-content paint. YMMV but I've found that scrubbing seems to work better than scraping (well, maybe it's that my bottom is totally smooth, now, after the refit we did). Not only was there stuff which would not come off without aggressive spatula (paint destructive) work, but it brushed off readily, along with a faint cloud of red. The reveal line is white bottom paint; it sheds a great deal more visibly on scrubbing, perhaps because it doesn't need to/get cleaned often. Anyway, if you must be in one place, Velcro Beach (as we called it because we were reluctant to leave) is a darned nice place to be stuck in. -paul \ Yah, we know. Other than the summers on a boat not plugged in, which are the prime reason we chose to cruise at this time of year, where it's mid to high 90s both water and air temp, with little wind due to the sheltered location. Said shelter consists of a barrier island which, despite regular cropdusting of mossie control, produces a prodigious amount of biting insects of various stripes. So, we're very hopeful of getting out of VB quickly, before our reefer sucks up another few hundred amphours trying to deal with already hot air and water (both cooling methods, but, on top of that, the intake line has to be disassembled and cleaned at least weekly). Thanks for the note. L8R Skip --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land. - Dr. Samuel Johnson |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 20:50:00 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:
trim Our latest "gotta do this before we can leave" (except that we have to come back to be able to leave, again) is that Lydia's almost-90-year-old mother recently fell and broke her right arm and wrist. While she's been a lifelong amazing healer, at her age, all bets are off. Then, there's the issue of dealing with all the minutiae of everyday life without the use of your right arm, and the complexity of money matters for which she's ill-equipped, at the moment. So, we're heading back to Vero Beach for a while or forever, depending on how it works out, as we can't leave, again, until those matters are resolved to the degree that she doesn't need us at an immediate availability. trim Excuses, excuses! I see it all the time. People who glom onto any excuse to get back onto land. While I wish Lydia's mother well, it appears that, since she's 90, if it's not a broken arm, it will be something else perhaps for ten or more years. I know a couple from Texas who have been going through the same thing with her mother - for fifteen years. They would truly love to do some extended cruising and have a fine Wharram 35 catamaran that he built but the best they can do is a week or two at a time once or twice a year and that is costing them double because they have to line up and pay for 24/7 care for their 95-year-old mother who has cancer, stroke, is paralyzed and has Alzheimer's, etc. She is little more than a bedridden vegetable yet she rules both their lives for who knows how much longer. They are in their late sixties and what'll happen before they manage to do any extended cruising is one or both of THEM will be on the receiving end of some health problem which, itself, keeps them on or close to shore. So much for their cruising dream. My parents told me when I was 21 that I was on my own and to go live my life. Neither of them wanted or expected me to come back and be their nursemaid in their old age. They simply would not have tolerated it as a blow to their self-sufficiency and pride, if for nothing else. Would that more parents gave that kind of freedom to their children. But people are all different and some parents expect their children to sacrifice their lives to take care of them in their old age as sort of a payback for the parent taking care of the kid in its young age. Not a fair trade as the former is selfish while the latter is their own choice. Bottom line is you two are not likely to ever do any extended cruising again. But, that's life! You seem to mostly enjoy working on the boat and you can do that stuck ashore as well as or better than you can do it while trying to work some cruising in around lubberly obligations. -- Sir Gregory |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 06:49:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: Mine wasn't even that bad. I spoke to a fellow having, IIRC, a 52' Little Harbor sail boat. He said he always had at least three systems out of commission or partly working at any given time. No human could get all his boat working per design. === Complexity of systems tends to increase exponentially with the size of the boat, and that inevitably leads to increased maintenance requirements. The right way to increase complexity however is to build in some redundancy at the same time so that it's not necessary to have everything 100% operational at all times. The alternative is to go with the minimalist approach and forgo modern conveniences like refrigeration and air conditioning. |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 13:20:04 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 06:49:59 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: Mine wasn't even that bad. I spoke to a fellow having, IIRC, a 52' Little Harbor sail boat. He said he always had at least three systems out of commission or partly working at any given time. No human could get all his boat working per design. === Complexity of systems tends to increase exponentially with the size of the boat, and that inevitably leads to increased maintenance requirements. The right way to increase complexity however is to build in some redundancy at the same time so that it's not necessary to have everything 100% operational at all times. The alternative is to go with the minimalist approach and forgo modern conveniences like refrigeration and air conditioning. Indeed! Minimalist is better. If one must have air conditioning, it is my firm belief that one should stay home and run it off the grid. I draw the line at somebody's unnecessary luxuries impinging on the peace and quiet and fresh air of an anchorage. If you MUST have air conditioning then rent a slip and plug into the grid. I do think a simple Adler Barbour refrigerator is an exception as long as one is willing to forego refrigeration when the sun doesn't shine. I use mine from time to time to cool down some beers and that's about it. A simple luxury when ice is out of the equation. -- Sir Gregory |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 13:20:04 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 06:49:59 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: Mine wasn't even that bad. I spoke to a fellow having, IIRC, a 52' Little Harbor sail boat. He said he always had at least three systems out of commission or partly working at any given time. No human could get all his boat working per design. === Complexity of systems tends to increase exponentially with the size of the boat, and that inevitably leads to increased maintenance requirements. The right way to increase complexity however is to build in some redundancy at the same time so that it's not necessary to have everything 100% operational at all times. The alternative is to go with the minimalist approach and forgo modern conveniences like refrigeration and air conditioning. Many years ago my wife and I used to "cruise" the coast of Maine in a Muscongus Bay (often referred to as a Friendship) Sloop. We had a one burner kerosene stove, water out of a "jerry can", and a magnetic compass for navigation. I don't remember ever having a "break-down". -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 10:58:56 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote: On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 20:50:00 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: trim Our latest "gotta do this before we can leave" (except that we have to come back to be able to leave, again) is that Lydia's almost-90-year-old mother recently fell and broke her right arm and wrist. While she's been a lifelong amazing healer, at her age, all bets are off. Then, there's the issue of dealing with all the minutiae of everyday life without the use of your right arm, and the complexity of money matters for which she's ill-equipped, at the moment. So, we're heading back to Vero Beach for a while or forever, depending on how it works out, as we can't leave, again, until those matters are resolved to the degree that she doesn't need us at an immediate availability. trim Excuses, excuses! I see it all the time. People who glom onto any excuse to get back onto land. While I wish Lydia's mother well, it appears that, since she's 90, if it's not a broken arm, it will be something else perhaps for ten or more years. I know a couple from Texas who have been going through the same thing with her mother - for fifteen years. They would truly love to do some extended cruising and have a fine Wharram 35 catamaran that he built but the best they can do is a week or two at a time once or twice a year and that is costing them double because they have to line up and pay for 24/7 care for their 95-year-old mother who has cancer, stroke, is paralyzed and has Alzheimer's, etc. She is little more than a bedridden vegetable yet she rules both their lives for who knows how much longer. They are in their late sixties and what'll happen before they manage to do any extended cruising is one or both of THEM will be on the receiving end of some health problem which, itself, keeps them on or close to shore. So much for their cruising dream. My parents told me when I was 21 that I was on my own and to go live my life. Neither of them wanted or expected me to come back and be their nursemaid in their old age. They simply would not have tolerated it as a blow to their self-sufficiency and pride, if for nothing else. Would that more parents gave that kind of freedom to their children. But people are all different and some parents expect their children to sacrifice their lives to take care of them in their old age as sort of a payback for the parent taking care of the kid in its young age. Not a fair trade as the former is selfish while the latter is their own choice. Bottom line is you two are not likely to ever do any extended cruising again. But, that's life! You seem to mostly enjoy working on the boat and you can do that stuck ashore as well as or better than you can do it while trying to work some cruising in around lubberly obligations. Yup. and we also have the "aquatic trailer trash" who live on a permanently anchored boat. -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
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Shake and Break Part 10
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:29:32 +0700, wrote:
Yup. and we also have the "aquatic trailer trash" who live on a permanently anchored boat. Wrong! I was anchored out in the *back country* of Florida Bay just last week in order to get away from all the Memorial day loudmouthed, drunken fools. -- Sir Gregory |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/3/2015 11:20 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
Complexity of systems tends to increase exponentially with the size of the boat, and that inevitably leads to increased maintenance requirements. The right way to increase complexity however is to build in some redundancy at the same time so that it's not necessary to have everything 100% operational at all times. The alternative is to go with the minimalist approach and forgo modern conveniences like refrigeration and air conditioning. This thing went way beyond that. When I toured the boat, the electrically operated centerboard wasn't operational. Turned out marine growth in the box had jammed it half down. So he couldn't sail well nor could he use the boat with the engine per his desire to hang out in the Bahamas. I met him at Rybovich in Palm Beach. He wasn't thrilled with his new boat. I felt for the guy. I put in at Little Harbor in Newport so have some idea of what they charge. He had them build his dream boat and it never worked. Never. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 18:21:49 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:
On 6/3/2015 11:20 AM, Wayne.B wrote: Complexity of systems tends to increase exponentially with the size of the boat, and that inevitably leads to increased maintenance requirements. The right way to increase complexity however is to build in some redundancy at the same time so that it's not necessary to have everything 100% operational at all times. The alternative is to go with the minimalist approach and forgo modern conveniences like refrigeration and air conditioning. This thing went way beyond that. When I toured the boat, the electrically operated centerboard wasn't operational. Turned out marine growth in the box had jammed it half down. So he couldn't sail well nor could he use the boat with the engine per his desire to hang out in the Bahamas. I met him at Rybovich in Palm Beach. He wasn't thrilled with his new boat. I felt for the guy. I put in at Little Harbor in Newport so have some idea of what they charge. He had them build his dream boat and it never worked. Never. Dream boat = nightmare boat, especially when the eyes are bigger than the stomach and the dream is based upon magazine articles and/or other forms of mass ignorance. -- Sir Gregory |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:40:44 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:29:32 +0700, wrote: Yup. and we also have the "aquatic trailer trash" who live on a permanently anchored boat. Wrong! I was anchored out in the *back country* of Florida Bay just last week in order to get away from all the Memorial day loudmouthed, drunken fools. God Lord! Another epic voyage down the bay.... and back. Will you be publishing your log, as Skipper does? -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:37:18 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:27:39 +0700, wrote: Many years ago my wife and I used to "cruise" the coast of Maine in a Muscongus Bay (often referred to as a Friendship) Sloop. We had a one burner kerosene stove, water out of a "jerry can", and a magnetic compass for navigation. I don't remember ever having a "break-down". It is a crying shame you got so far away from your sensible roots, dude! Yup, I see your lips moving but the sound seems to be off. You, with your outboard powered dinghy, your electric toilet, your refrigerator,, and all your other modern, can't do without, facilities, are telling me about cruising with minimum equipment :-) -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 13:31:28 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote: I do think a simple Adler Barbour refrigerator is an exception as long as one is willing to forego refrigeration when the sun doesn't shine. I use mine from time to time to cool down some beers and that's about it. A simple luxury when ice is out of the equation. === Be careful - technology is a slippery slope! :-) |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 18:24:08 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/3/2015 5:27 PM, wrote: === Complexity of systems tends to increase exponentially with the size of the boat, and that inevitably leads to increased maintenance requirements. The right way to increase complexity however is to build in some redundancy at the same time so that it's not necessary to have everything 100% operational at all times. The alternative is to go with the minimalist approach and forgo modern conveniences like refrigeration and air conditioning. Many years ago my wife and I used to "cruise" the coast of Maine in a Muscongus Bay (often referred to as a Friendship) Sloop. We had a one burner kerosene stove, water out of a "jerry can", and a magnetic compass for navigation. I don't remember ever having a "break-down". We had a similar. We did have a propane stove / oven but kerosene lanterns, a coal / charcoal stove and that was about it for tech. We did have misery with the Volvo diesel aux but that was not frustrating as, I suppose having basic system break. We did have only a short while for cold due to an icebox but we managed on beans, eggs and dry foods mostly. Wasn't a bad life. -paul I was in Singapore and on the hard doing the bottom when I met a guy who had ordered a "Cornish Shrimper" from England. It arrived in Singapore in a 20 ft. shipping container. The yard got it in the water and rigged it and the guy - very obviously - learned to sail in the bay and a few days later he and his wife sailed off for Thailand. I saw that they had some sort of one burner cooking stove, a tarpaulin to make a tent over the boom at night and that was about all. His charts consisted of some road maps but no compass or GPS. I never saw the guy again but a year or so later I saw his boat in a marina in Thailand and asked the Marina Manager about him. He had sailed all the way, no outboard, from Singapore to Thailand, along shore all the way. When they got low on food they stopped and went to the local market and bought more. The manager said he had asked the guy how he got across the gulf - most people would sail N.E. from Southern Thailand across the gulf to the mouth of the Chao Paya river - and the guy said nope he didn't try that. From looking at a chart it appeared to be about a 1,000 mile voyage, in an open sail boat. The Marina Manager said that the boat was for sale and the guy had said that he was glad he had made the trip but didn't think he wanted to do it again :-) I guess you'd have to call that minimal sailing :-) -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/4/2015 5:24 AM, wrote:
I was in Singapore and on the hard doing the bottom when I met a guy who had ordered a "Cornish Shrimper" from England. It arrived in Singapore in a 20 ft. shipping container. The yard got it in the water and rigged it and the guy - very obviously - learned to sail in the bay and a few days later he and his wife sailed off for Thailand. I saw that they had some sort of one burner cooking stove, a tarpaulin to make a tent over the boom at night and that was about all. His charts consisted of some road maps but no compass or GPS. I never saw the guy again but a year or so later I saw his boat in a marina in Thailand and asked the Marina Manager about him. He had sailed all the way, no outboard, from Singapore to Thailand, along shore all the way. When they got low on food they stopped and went to the local market and bought more. The manager said he had asked the guy how he got across the gulf - most people would sail N.E. from Southern Thailand across the gulf to the mouth of the Chao Paya river - and the guy said nope he didn't try that. From looking at a chart it appeared to be about a 1,000 mile voyage, in an open sail boat. The Marina Manager said that the boat was for sale and the guy had said that he was glad he had made the trip but didn't think he wanted to do it again :-) I guess you'd have to call that minimal sailing :-) -- I'll say. One of my ambitions that I'll likely never realize is running the ICW in a very small shoal draft boat with maybe a cuddy cabin. It may be like that shrimper but add the hard cabin rather than the tarp boom. I'd also like a very shallow draft like the Mac 26. I can see the icebox, porta pottie and one burner camping stove. I did a few parts of the ICW in the big boat but with an almost 6' draft, I had to stick to the main channel and even then worry about tides as a few places weren't at clearance depth any more. As I went, I kept being intrigued by what I was passing but could not approach. -paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/3/2015 6:35 PM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
I felt for the guy. I put in at Little Harbor in Newport so have some idea of what they charge. He had them build his dream boat and it never worked. Never. Dream boat = nightmare boat, especially when the eyes are bigger than the stomach and the dream is based upon magazine articles and/or other forms of mass ignorance. It was a nightmare but I understood that at the price he paid LH for a keel up custom boat he had reasonable expectation of good engineering, good production and therefore a good result. I crewed on an 85' sailing yacht which was enormously complex but engineered / designed for easy access to all systems. So when things went awry, which wasn't that common, they were easily, quickly and cheaply addressed. That's proper design. -paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:57:14 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: One of my ambitions that I'll likely never realize is running the ICW in a very small shoal draft boat with maybe a cuddy cabin. It may be like that shrimper but add the hard cabin rather than the tarp boom. I'd also like a very shallow draft like the Mac 26. I can see the icebox, porta pottie and one burner camping stove. I did a few parts of the ICW in the big boat but with an almost 6' draft, I had to stick to the main channel and even then worry about tides as a few places weren't at clearance depth any more. As I went, I kept being intrigued by what I was passing but could not approach. -paul === We are now up to 5 round trip transits of the ICW in our GB49 so I can relate to that. What you need is a dinghy which is capable of getting up on plane and covering some ground in an hour or two. We've done a lot of poking around in the back creeks and small towns that way and it is a lot of fun. Riggging out the dinghy with a small depth sounder/fish finder is also a useful addition. |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 17:54:25 +0700, wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:40:44 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:29:32 +0700, wrote: Yup. and we also have the "aquatic trailer trash" who live on a permanently anchored boat. Wrong! I was anchored out in the *back country* of Florida Bay just last week in order to get away from all the Memorial day loudmouthed, drunken fools. God Lord! Another epic voyage down the bay.... and back. Will you be publishing your log, as Skipper does? === The early explorers of Florida Bay had an interesting sense of humor. There is a shoal named First National Bank, and a small island named Dildo Key. |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/4/2015 6:39 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:57:14 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: We are now up to 5 round trip transits of the ICW in our GB49 so I can relate to that. What you need is a dinghy which is capable of getting up on plane and covering some ground in an hour or two. We've done a lot of poking around in the back creeks and small towns that way and it is a lot of fun. Riggging out the dinghy with a small depth sounder/fish finder is also a useful addition. The thing is we're boatless now so it's not a matter of adding a dink to the big boat but of acquiring something. Also I"m married to someone who gets sea sick but lived and sailed for 7 years but in a tri so she'd not be comfortable in a mono and I am very skeptical of the multis (beam issues). I think our big boat open ocean voyaging days are over. We'll see how things shake out in the next few years, but as I posted, this is likely more a musing not to be realized than a project to be done. -paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:57:14 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/4/2015 5:24 AM, wrote: I was in Singapore and on the hard doing the bottom when I met a guy who had ordered a "Cornish Shrimper" from England. It arrived in Singapore in a 20 ft. shipping container. The yard got it in the water and rigged it and the guy - very obviously - learned to sail in the bay and a few days later he and his wife sailed off for Thailand. I saw that they had some sort of one burner cooking stove, a tarpaulin to make a tent over the boom at night and that was about all. His charts consisted of some road maps but no compass or GPS. I never saw the guy again but a year or so later I saw his boat in a marina in Thailand and asked the Marina Manager about him. He had sailed all the way, no outboard, from Singapore to Thailand, along shore all the way. When they got low on food they stopped and went to the local market and bought more. The manager said he had asked the guy how he got across the gulf - most people would sail N.E. from Southern Thailand across the gulf to the mouth of the Chao Paya river - and the guy said nope he didn't try that. From looking at a chart it appeared to be about a 1,000 mile voyage, in an open sail boat. The Marina Manager said that the boat was for sale and the guy had said that he was glad he had made the trip but didn't think he wanted to do it again :-) I guess you'd have to call that minimal sailing :-) -- I'll say. One of my ambitions that I'll likely never realize is running the ICW in a very small shoal draft boat with maybe a cuddy cabin. It may be like that shrimper but add the hard cabin rather than the tarp boom. I'd also like a very shallow draft like the Mac 26. I can see the icebox, porta pottie and one burner camping stove. I did a few parts of the ICW in the big boat but with an almost 6' draft, I had to stick to the main channel and even then worry about tides as a few places weren't at clearance depth any more. As I went, I kept being intrigued by what I was passing but could not approach. -paul There is a lot to be said for a boat that can float in shallow water :-) A lot of the small islands on the west coast of Thailand aren't very well charted. They are in the right place on the chart but the water depth might have been surveyed 50 or 60 years ago and coral grows :-) We were on the way back to Phuket, from Malaysia, and decided to stop for the night. The N.E. monsoons were in full spate so we eased up on the S.W. side of a small island and went aground on the coral. We had run in between to big coral growths and were essentially in a "cradle" and couldn't get out. The story ended well as when the tide went out the water was shallow enough that I could sort of chart the water and a small, local fishing boat had come by and hauled the anchor out toward open water and promised to come back at high tide. Twelve hours later we floated off and winched ourselves out into deep water and the fishing boat came back and led us to a better anchoring spot. The moral of the story is "you probably can't go where the fishing boats go :-) -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 07:31:22 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/4/2015 6:39 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:57:14 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: We are now up to 5 round trip transits of the ICW in our GB49 so I can relate to that. What you need is a dinghy which is capable of getting up on plane and covering some ground in an hour or two. We've done a lot of poking around in the back creeks and small towns that way and it is a lot of fun. Riggging out the dinghy with a small depth sounder/fish finder is also a useful addition. The thing is we're boatless now so it's not a matter of adding a dink to the big boat but of acquiring something. Also I"m married to someone who gets sea sick but lived and sailed for 7 years but in a tri so she'd not be comfortable in a mono and I am very skeptical of the multis (beam issues). I think our big boat open ocean voyaging days are over. My wife is like that - she once got sea sick while anchored in the Singapore Straits :-) We found that some medicine called Stugeron, (derivative of piperazine) which I don't think is marketed under that name in the U.S. If she started taking that the night before we sailed she was all right for the trip. We'll see how things shake out in the next few years, but as I posted, this is likely more a musing not to be realized than a project to be done. -paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:00:10 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/3/2015 6:35 PM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote: I felt for the guy. I put in at Little Harbor in Newport so have some idea of what they charge. He had them build his dream boat and it never worked. Never. Dream boat = nightmare boat, especially when the eyes are bigger than the stomach and the dream is based upon magazine articles and/or other forms of mass ignorance. It was a nightmare but I understood that at the price he paid LH for a keel up custom boat he had reasonable expectation of good engineering, good production and therefore a good result. I crewed on an 85' sailing yacht which was enormously complex but engineered / designed for easy access to all systems. So when things went awry, which wasn't that common, they were easily, quickly and cheaply addressed. That's proper design. -paul A friend of a friend was designing a "dream boat" which would be completely computer controlled. We finally convinced him that it was a poor idea and then the oil business went to hell and he didn't have a job any more so the project ended :-) Re big sail boats. I was aboard a two masted Maine schooner that was built in the early 1900's. Apparently it had been in the lumber trade originally hauling sawed lumber from Maine to Boston. The original crew size was said to be five men. -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/4/2015 5:59 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:57:14 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: There is a lot to be said for a boat that can float in shallow water :-) A lot of the small islands on the west coast of Thailand aren't very well charted. They are in the right place on the chart but the water depth might have been surveyed 50 or 60 years ago and coral grows :-) We were on the way back to Phuket, from Malaysia, and decided to stop for the night. The N.E. monsoons were in full spate so we eased up on the S.W. side of a small island and went aground on the coral. We had run in between to big coral growths and were essentially in a "cradle" and couldn't get out. The story ended well as when the tide went out the water was shallow enough that I could sort of chart the water and a small, local fishing boat had come by and hauled the anchor out toward open water and promised to come back at high tide. Twelve hours later we floated off and winched ourselves out into deep water and the fishing boat came back and led us to a better anchoring spot. The moral of the story is "you probably can't go where the fishing boats go :-) -- I've run aground but only in mud or sand. Coral sounds scary. I do want to be able to gunk hole it a bit and am willing to, at least for the time, give up voyaging ability. Then too, we're currently living in the desert so the whole idea is a 'tomorrow maybe' thing for when and if we can either relocate or add a second presence on a coast. Our sailing now, if we were to do it, would be restricted to lakes we could walk around if determined to do so. Not my idea of water recreation. As to the sea sick drug, I couldn't see that as something that she could use and I know, that as an organic vegan, she'd not accept a drug solution even if taking it daily was safe and effective. I know a fellow who bought a smaller cat he uses mostly round the FL Keys but he said he'd take it on a short open ocean trip like to the Bahamas if he were weather confident. They seem to scud along fast enough that even short term forecasts are all one needs because the roughly 140 km trip only takes a few hours. Quite a bit of difference from sloughing along at 5 kts. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/4/2015 6:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:00:10 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: A friend of a friend was designing a "dream boat" which would be completely computer controlled. We finally convinced him that it was a poor idea and then the oil business went to hell and he didn't have a job any more so the project ended :-) Re big sail boats. I was aboard a two masted Maine schooner that was built in the early 1900's. Apparently it had been in the lumber trade originally hauling sawed lumber from Maine to Boston. The original crew size was said to be five men. -- Those old timers must have really worked. The old fishing schooners were, by some standards, short handed and they sailed during abominable weather. I also sailed those waters at that time of year and cannot fathom how these guys, lacking modern garment materials, lived through the experiences. Yet they did including long line handling in dories. Then again, I suppose these folks had heat below decks from coal stoves which I didn't. My first boat had a coal stove which was better than nothing but when I was sailing in the New England area it was a different boat with no mobile heat. It did have a terrific reverse cycle heat pump but shore power only. Still, these guys had no power other than muscle and winch yet handled gaff rig schooners with canvas sails, sisal lines and so forth. I'm in awe. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:10:09 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/4/2015 5:59 PM, wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:57:14 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: There is a lot to be said for a boat that can float in shallow water :-) A lot of the small islands on the west coast of Thailand aren't very well charted. They are in the right place on the chart but the water depth might have been surveyed 50 or 60 years ago and coral grows :-) We were on the way back to Phuket, from Malaysia, and decided to stop for the night. The N.E. monsoons were in full spate so we eased up on the S.W. side of a small island and went aground on the coral. We had run in between to big coral growths and were essentially in a "cradle" and couldn't get out. The story ended well as when the tide went out the water was shallow enough that I could sort of chart the water and a small, local fishing boat had come by and hauled the anchor out toward open water and promised to come back at high tide. Twelve hours later we floated off and winched ourselves out into deep water and the fishing boat came back and led us to a better anchoring spot. The moral of the story is "you probably can't go where the fishing boats go :-) -- I've run aground but only in mud or sand. Coral sounds scary. I do want to be able to gunk hole it a bit and am willing to, at least for the time, give up voyaging ability. Then too, we're currently living in the desert so the whole idea is a 'tomorrow maybe' thing for when and if we can either relocate or add a second presence on a coast. Our sailing now, if we were to do it, would be restricted to lakes we could walk around if determined to do so. Not my idea of water recreation. As to the sea sick drug, I couldn't see that as something that she could use and I know, that as an organic vegan, she'd not accept a drug solution even if taking it daily was safe and effective. Your wife might try eating ginger. It has a reputation for preventing motion sickness. An English friend once suggested it to my wife and (we live in Thailand) a Thai friend also suggested the same so it may have an "international" reputation which might indicate that it really does work. I know a fellow who bought a smaller cat he uses mostly round the FL Keys but he said he'd take it on a short open ocean trip like to the Bahamas if he were weather confident. They seem to scud along fast enough that even short term forecasts are all one needs because the roughly 140 km trip only takes a few hours. Quite a bit of difference from sloughing along at 5 kts. I met a bloke named Aron Meder, a Hungarian who sailed around the world in a 6 meter (19-1/2") boat, while he was in Phuket. Web Sites at: http://www.meder.hu/meder_en.htm Yutube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h167pT8u_Cg He reckoned that the main disadvantage of making long voyages in a small boat was that they were slow and necessitated carrying more supplies than a larger faster boat and there wasn't much room to carry supplies. While we didn't specifically discuss bad weather but he didn't seem to see it as a major concern. -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/4/2015 6:20 PM, wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:00:10 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: A friend of a friend was designing a "dream boat" which would be completely computer controlled. We finally convinced him that it was a poor idea and then the oil business went to hell and he didn't have a job any more so the project ended :-) Re big sail boats. I was aboard a two masted Maine schooner that was built in the early 1900's. Apparently it had been in the lumber trade originally hauling sawed lumber from Maine to Boston. The original crew size was said to be five men. -- Those old timers must have really worked. The old fishing schooners were, by some standards, short handed and they sailed during abominable weather. I also sailed those waters at that time of year and cannot fathom how these guys, lacking modern garment materials, lived through the experiences. Yet they did including long line handling in dories. Lumber schooners and fishing schooners were different breeds of cats. The lumber ships were built for fairly short trips back and forth from, say Penobscot Bay, Maine, to, probably, Boston, while the fishing schooner was built to fish the Grand Banks. But the "gimmick" with early 20th century lumber schooners with their tiny crews was that they had a gasoline "donkey motor" approximately mid ship and the heavy line handing was done using a power capstan :-) Then again, I suppose these folks had heat below decks from coal stoves which I didn't. My first boat had a coal stove which was better than nothing but when I was sailing in the New England area it was a different boat with no mobile heat. It did have a terrific reverse cycle heat pump but shore power only. I'm sure that they did. Certainly a Nova Scotia built 40 ft. wooden trawler that a friend acquired from an insurance agency had a coal stove in the forward crew quarters. In fact that is how he got it. The coal stove caught the bow compartment on fire and he put the fire out and towed the boat into a creek just before a "Nor'easter". Still, these guys had no power other than muscle and winch yet handled gaff rig schooners with canvas sails, sisal lines and so forth. I'm in awe. I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets get at it". -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
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Shake and Break Part 10
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 19:53:37 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 06:58:30 +0700, wrote: On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: Still, these guys had no power other than muscle and winch yet handled gaff rig schooners with canvas sails, sisal lines and so forth. I'm in awe. I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets get at it". When you're young you pretty well do "what is expected of you." Most sailing ship crews hardly had a man over 30. Sure. Heck, an "old man" was maybe 60 :-) -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/5/2015 5:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets get at it". -- I did and I"ve also taken a look at these model ships. I am having a difficult time thinking of how they managed to survive these trips. IIRC, White Jacket was a story about a frigate trip. To furl or reef a sail, you crawled up the mast to the appropriate yard, hustled out there holding the yard with your arms with feet on a line below the yard. Then, when all in position, you pulled up a canvas sail which was wet. Maybe I got that wrong, but that's how I saw it. The guides (?) on the boat had no idea of its ops but rather wanted to sell this or that tourist memorabilia. I've been aloft in modest weather and can't imagine being up there in heavy AND handling sails that way. The nice thing about having been aloft in modest weather is now amusement park rides not only fail to scare me, they relax me. -paul --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 09:17:35 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/5/2015 5:58 PM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets get at it". -- I did and I"ve also taken a look at these model ships. I am having a difficult time thinking of how they managed to survive these trips. IIRC, White Jacket was a story about a frigate trip. To furl or reef a sail, you crawled up the mast to the appropriate yard, hustled out there holding the yard with your arms with feet on a line below the yard. Then, when all in position, you pulled up a canvas sail which was wet. That is exactly how it was done, except of course it wasn't just you up there, it was shoulder to shoulder across the spar. A Clipper ship might have a crew of 200, largely to handle the sails. The crew of a Frigate would have been larger. See http://tinyurl.com/n9q8o8s which includes some actual photos of reefing square sails. Maybe I got that wrong, but that's how I saw it. The guides (?) on the boat had no idea of its ops but rather wanted to sell this or that tourist memorabilia. I've been aloft in modest weather and can't imagine being up there in heavy AND handling sails that way. The nice thing about having been aloft in modest weather is now amusement park rides not only fail to scare me, they relax me. -paul -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/7/2015 5:26 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 09:17:35 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: That is exactly how it was done, except of course it wasn't just you up there, it was shoulder to shoulder across the spar. A Clipper ship might have a crew of 200, largely to handle the sails. The crew of a Frigate would have been larger. See http://tinyurl.com/n9q8o8s which includes some actual photos of reefing square sails. Thanks for the link. If it were just me up there, the sail would be furled just about the time I got Davey Jones' cooperation. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:59:49 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/7/2015 5:26 PM, wrote: On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 09:17:35 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: That is exactly how it was done, except of course it wasn't just you up there, it was shoulder to shoulder across the spar. A Clipper ship might have a crew of 200, largely to handle the sails. The crew of a Frigate would have been larger. See http://tinyurl.com/n9q8o8s which includes some actual photos of reefing square sails. Thanks for the link. If it were just me up there, the sail would be furled just about the time I got Davey Jones' cooperation. I think that we all imagine "how I would do it" when thinking about how something was done. But actually, "back in the day", there was often only one way to do a lot of things and I doubt that anyone gave the matter much thought. If you wanted to be a farmer you had top plow the field and if you plowed the field you had to have a horse, and so on. If you wanted to be a sailor than the sail had to be reefed and if you reefed the sail than you had to climb the mast.... -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
On 6/8/2015 4:57 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:59:49 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: I think that we all imagine "how I would do it" when thinking about how something was done. But actually, "back in the day", there was often only one way to do a lot of things and I doubt that anyone gave the matter much thought. If you wanted to be a farmer you had top plow the field and if you plowed the field you had to have a horse, and so on. If you wanted to be a sailor than the sail had to be reefed and if you reefed the sail than you had to climb the mast.... -- My wording was poor. I should have said 'How could I do that' rather than 'would' meaning I"d not search for a new method but rather a way I could bring myself, to, in a gale, assume that position and do that work. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Shake and Break Part 10
On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 06:08:21 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote: On 6/8/2015 4:57 PM, wrote: On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:59:49 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote: I think that we all imagine "how I would do it" when thinking about how something was done. But actually, "back in the day", there was often only one way to do a lot of things and I doubt that anyone gave the matter much thought. If you wanted to be a farmer you had top plow the field and if you plowed the field you had to have a horse, and so on. If you wanted to be a sailor than the sail had to be reefed and if you reefed the sail than you had to climb the mast.... -- My wording was poor. I should have said 'How could I do that' rather than 'would' meaning I"d not search for a new method but rather a way I could bring myself, to, in a gale, assume that position and do that work. It depends on what the alternative is. If the alternative is the Royal Navy punishment of 100 lashes (which frequently resulted in death) then Hidie-Ho and up the mast we go. -- Cheers, Bruce |
Shake and Break Part 10
My wife is like that - she once got sea sick while anchored in the Singapore Straits :-) We found that some medicine called Stugeron, (derivative of piperazine) which I don't think is marketed under that name in the U.S. If she started taking that the night before we sailed she was all right for the trip. -- Cheers, Bruce Stugeron is widely available over the counter everyplace other than the US, where it can't warrant the FDA trials. It was originally a maternity morning sickness pill, but motion sickness seems to be its primary use. Easily available in UK-related countries such as the Bahamas, Ireland, etc.. Lydia takes a few days to get her sea legs and uses it for that; after a few days, she's fine. Interesting thread drift here! L8R Skip, ashore at the moment Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land. - Dr. Samuel Johnson |
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