On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 6/4/2015 6:20 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:00:10 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


A friend of a friend was designing a "dream boat" which would be
completely computer controlled. We finally convinced him that it was a
poor idea and then the oil business went to hell and he didn't have a
job any more so the project ended :-)

Re big sail boats. I was aboard a two masted Maine schooner that was
built in the early 1900's. Apparently it had been in the lumber trade
originally hauling sawed lumber from Maine to Boston. The original
crew size was said to be five men.
--

Those old timers must have really worked. The old fishing schooners
were, by some standards, short handed and they sailed during abominable
weather. I also sailed those waters at that time of year and cannot
fathom how these guys, lacking modern garment materials, lived through
the experiences. Yet they did including long line handling in dories.


Lumber schooners and fishing schooners were different breeds of cats.
The lumber ships were built for fairly short trips back and forth
from, say Penobscot Bay, Maine, to, probably, Boston, while the
fishing schooner was built to fish the Grand Banks.

But the "gimmick" with early 20th century lumber schooners with their
tiny crews was that they had a gasoline "donkey motor" approximately
mid ship and the heavy line handing was done using a power capstan :-)

Then again, I suppose these folks had heat below decks from coal stoves
which I didn't. My first boat had a coal stove which was better than
nothing but when I was sailing in the New England area it was a
different boat with no mobile heat. It did have a terrific reverse cycle
heat pump but shore power only.

I'm sure that they did. Certainly a Nova Scotia built 40 ft. wooden
trawler that a friend acquired from an insurance agency had a coal
stove in the forward crew quarters. In fact that is how he got it. The
coal stove caught the bow compartment on fire and he put the fire out
and towed the boat into a creek just before a "Nor'easter".

Still, these guys had no power other than muscle and winch yet handled
gaff rig schooners with canvas sails, sisal lines and so forth. I'm in awe.


I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went
ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an
account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so
much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the
crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets
get at it".
--
Cheers,

Bruce

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 06:58:30 +0700, wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


Still, these guys had no power other than muscle and winch yet handled
gaff rig schooners with canvas sails, sisal lines and so forth. I'm in awe.


I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went
ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an
account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so
much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the
crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets
get at it".

When you're young you pretty well do "what is expected of you."
Most sailing ship crews hardly had a man over 30.

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 19:53:37 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 06:58:30 +0700, wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


Still, these guys had no power other than muscle and winch yet handled
gaff rig schooners with canvas sails, sisal lines and so forth. I'm in awe.


I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went
ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an
account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so
much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the
crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets
get at it".

When you're young you pretty well do "what is expected of you."
Most sailing ship crews hardly had a man over 30.

Sure. Heck, an "old man" was maybe 60 :-)
--
Cheers,

Bruce

On 6/5/2015 5:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went
ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an
account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so
much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the
crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets
get at it".
--

I did and I"ve also taken a look at these model ships. I am having a
difficult time thinking of how they managed to survive these trips.
IIRC, White Jacket was a story about a frigate trip.

To furl or reef a sail, you crawled up the mast to the appropriate yard,
hustled out there holding the yard with your arms with feet on a line
below the yard. Then, when all in position, you pulled up a canvas sail
which was wet.

Maybe I got that wrong, but that's how I saw it. The guides (?) on the
boat had no idea of its ops but rather wanted to sell this or that
tourist memorabilia.

I've been aloft in modest weather and can't imagine being up there in
heavy AND handling sails that way.

The nice thing about having been aloft in modest weather is now
amusement park rides not only fail to scare me, they relax me.

-paul


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On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 09:17:35 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 6/5/2015 5:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 06:15:59 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


I suspect it was a matter of "that is the way it is" so they just went
ahead and did it. Read the book "White Jacket", my Melville, for an
account of a voyage from San Francisco to New York (I believe) not so
much for the brutality but for the matter of fact attitude of the
crew. "Oh, the wind is blowing, we got to reduce sail. Well boys, lets
get at it".
--

I did and I"ve also taken a look at these model ships. I am having a
difficult time thinking of how they managed to survive these trips.
IIRC, White Jacket was a story about a frigate trip.

To furl or reef a sail, you crawled up the mast to the appropriate yard,
hustled out there holding the yard with your arms with feet on a line
below the yard. Then, when all in position, you pulled up a canvas sail
which was wet.


That is exactly how it was done, except of course it wasn't just you
up there, it was shoulder to shoulder across the spar. A Clipper ship
might have a crew of 200, largely to handle the sails. The crew of a
Frigate would have been larger.

See http://tinyurl.com/n9q8o8s which includes some actual photos of
reefing square sails.

Maybe I got that wrong, but that's how I saw it. The guides (?) on the
boat had no idea of its ops but rather wanted to sell this or that
tourist memorabilia.

I've been aloft in modest weather and can't imagine being up there in
heavy AND handling sails that way.

The nice thing about having been aloft in modest weather is now
amusement park rides not only fail to scare me, they relax me.

-paul

--
Cheers,

Bruce

On 6/7/2015 5:26 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 09:17:35 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


That is exactly how it was done, except of course it wasn't just you
up there, it was shoulder to shoulder across the spar. A Clipper ship
might have a crew of 200, largely to handle the sails. The crew of a
Frigate would have been larger.

See http://tinyurl.com/n9q8o8s which includes some actual photos of
reefing square sails.


Thanks for the link. If it were just me up there, the sail would be
furled just about the time I got Davey Jones' cooperation.


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On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:59:49 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 6/7/2015 5:26 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 09:17:35 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:


That is exactly how it was done, except of course it wasn't just you
up there, it was shoulder to shoulder across the spar. A Clipper ship
might have a crew of 200, largely to handle the sails. The crew of a
Frigate would have been larger.

See http://tinyurl.com/n9q8o8s which includes some actual photos of
reefing square sails.


Thanks for the link. If it were just me up there, the sail would be
furled just about the time I got Davey Jones' cooperation.


I think that we all imagine "how I would do it" when thinking about
how something was done. But actually, "back in the day", there was
often only one way to do a lot of things and I doubt that anyone gave
the matter much thought. If you wanted to be a farmer you had top plow
the field and if you plowed the field you had to have a horse, and so
on.

If you wanted to be a sailor than the sail had to be reefed and if
you reefed the sail than you had to climb the mast....
--
Cheers,

Bruce

On 6/8/2015 4:57 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:59:49 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

I think that we all imagine "how I would do it" when thinking about
how something was done. But actually, "back in the day", there was
often only one way to do a lot of things and I doubt that anyone gave
the matter much thought. If you wanted to be a farmer you had top plow
the field and if you plowed the field you had to have a horse, and so
on.

If you wanted to be a sailor than the sail had to be reefed and if
you reefed the sail than you had to climb the mast....
--

My wording was poor. I should have said 'How could I do that' rather
than 'would' meaning I"d not search for a new method but rather a way I
could bring myself, to, in a gale, assume that position and do that work.


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On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 06:08:21 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 6/8/2015 4:57 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:59:49 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

I think that we all imagine "how I would do it" when thinking about
how something was done. But actually, "back in the day", there was
often only one way to do a lot of things and I doubt that anyone gave
the matter much thought. If you wanted to be a farmer you had top plow
the field and if you plowed the field you had to have a horse, and so
on.

If you wanted to be a sailor than the sail had to be reefed and if
you reefed the sail than you had to climb the mast....
--

My wording was poor. I should have said 'How could I do that' rather
than 'would' meaning I"d not search for a new method but rather a way I
could bring myself, to, in a gale, assume that position and do that work.


It depends on what the alternative is. If the alternative is the Royal
Navy punishment of 100 lashes (which frequently resulted in death)
then Hidie-Ho and up the mast we go.
--
Cheers,

Bruce

My wife is like that - she once got sea sick while anchored in the
Singapore Straits :-) We found that some medicine called Stugeron,
(derivative of piperazine) which I don't think is marketed under that
name in the U.S. If she started taking that the night before we sailed
she was all right for the trip.

--
Cheers,

Bruce


Stugeron is widely available over the counter everyplace other than the US,
where it can't warrant the FDA trials.

It was originally a maternity morning sickness pill, but motion sickness
seems to be its primary use.

Easily available in UK-related countries such as the Bahamas, Ireland, etc..

Lydia takes a few days to get her sea legs and uses it for that; after a few
days, she's fine.

Interesting thread drift here!

L8R

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