On Monday, January 20, 2014 9:29:12 AM UTC-5, slide wrote:
On 1/19/2014 10:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:



===



Clearly there were some issues with the boat but I believe they made a

very foolish choice to go offshore from New Jersey, in the middle of

winter, into the teeth of several North Atlantic gales. It would have

been far more prudent to go down the east coast via Chesapeake Bay

and the ICW at least as far as North Carolina. From NC you assess

the weather and wait for a window when you can cross to Bermuda with

reasonable safety. However in a boat that size, in the middle of

winter, it is far safer to go all the way to Florida via the ICW and

then head down through the Bahamas on the so called "Thornless Path"

to the Caribbean. Having made the winter trip through the Bahamas

several times in a 50 footer, even that route is something less than a

walk in the park.





I can't agree with you because I did exactly this once myself. My

information was that the ICW was difficult to navigate and not cleared

at my almost 6' draft until south of Hampton, VA and even then it can

get dicey. While i have no personal experience in the ICW north of VA, I

can believe that a huge cat like this would be most difficult to deal

with inland. OTOH, heavy weather of 40kts isn't so extreme as that one

would expect it'd disable the boat as it did. I mean, reading the

narrative quickly as I did, it seemed to me that the boat fell apart

very much like a pro captain I met once described an O'Day doing the

same thing under him in lesser conditions.



To be fair, though, the O'Day wasn't ever represented as an offshore

vessel while presumably the cat was. I hit 40 kt conditions and while I

didn't enjoy the ride, nothing broke.

Sorry but your information about the ICW is wrong, 6' should be no problem. 7'+ is doable if you play the tides. And a cat that size should have no problems running the ICW with a competent person at the helm.

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 12:19:45 -0800 (PST), "Capt.Bill"
wrote:

On Monday, January 20, 2014 9:29:12 AM UTC-5, slide wrote:
On 1/19/2014 10:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:



===



Clearly there were some issues with the boat but I believe they made a

very foolish choice to go offshore from New Jersey, in the middle of

winter, into the teeth of several North Atlantic gales. It would have

been far more prudent to go down the east coast via Chesapeake Bay

and the ICW at least as far as North Carolina. From NC you assess

the weather and wait for a window when you can cross to Bermuda with

reasonable safety. However in a boat that size, in the middle of

winter, it is far safer to go all the way to Florida via the ICW and

then head down through the Bahamas on the so called "Thornless Path"

to the Caribbean. Having made the winter trip through the Bahamas

several times in a 50 footer, even that route is something less than a

walk in the park.





I can't agree with you because I did exactly this once myself. My

information was that the ICW was difficult to navigate and not cleared

at my almost 6' draft until south of Hampton, VA and even then it can

get dicey. While i have no personal experience in the ICW north of VA, I

can believe that a huge cat like this would be most difficult to deal

with inland. OTOH, heavy weather of 40kts isn't so extreme as that one

would expect it'd disable the boat as it did. I mean, reading the

narrative quickly as I did, it seemed to me that the boat fell apart

very much like a pro captain I met once described an O'Day doing the

same thing under him in lesser conditions.



To be fair, though, the O'Day wasn't ever represented as an offshore

vessel while presumably the cat was. I hit 40 kt conditions and while I

didn't enjoy the ride, nothing broke.

Sorry but your information about the ICW is wrong, 6' should be no problem. 7'+ is doable if you play the tides. And a cat that size should have no problems running the ICW with a competent person at the helm.


===

Yes. You have to go outside down the New Jersey coast but that is a
one day run for most people, and it's easy to wait at Atlantic
Highlands for a suitable weather window. After that everything is
deep water to Norfolk, VA. South of Norfolk there are large tug
boats and motor yachts that navigate all the way to Moorehead City, NC
which is the traditional jumping off spot for Bermuda.

On 1/20/2014 3:23 PM, Wayne.B wrote:

===

Yes. You have to go outside down the New Jersey coast but that is a
one day run for most people, and it's easy to wait at Atlantic
Highlands for a suitable weather window. After that everything is
deep water to Norfolk, VA. South of Norfolk there are large tug
boats and motor yachts that navigate all the way to Moorehead City, NC
which is the traditional jumping off spot for Bermuda.


I've done it south of Hampton.

I guess I strayed off my point that I made the same decision as these
guys did when faced with the same conditions at the same time of year. I
too hit some of these 'noreaster things and while the going wasn't
pleasant, I, single handing a 42' Tayana with no auto pilot, managed and
didn't consider myself a hero for having done so.

IMO, the difference was that my boat didn't disassemble in moderately
heavy weather as this one did. Had I faced the structural issues these
guys did, I may not have survived. The key isn't the weather or decision
but the integrity of the vessel.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:25:16 -0700, slide wrote:

The key isn't the weather or decision
but the integrity of the vessel.

===

You're right about that but I'd argue against testing the integrity of
the boat if you don't need to. Even well built boats have an
increased probability of trouble in storm force conditions. The ocean
has a way of finding the weak spots.

Another well known issue is that the boats tend to be stronger than
the people. I've been on two different boats where owners broke ribs
after being tossed across the cabin down below.

On 1/21/2014 10:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:25:16 -0700, slide wrote:

The key isn't the weather or decision
but the integrity of the vessel.

===

You're right about that but I'd argue against testing the integrity of
the boat if you don't need to. Even well built boats have an
increased probability of trouble in storm force conditions. The ocean
has a way of finding the weak spots.

Another well known issue is that the boats tend to be stronger than
the people. I've been on two different boats where owners broke ribs
after being tossed across the cabin down below.

Good point there. I have a chipped front tooth from one of my trips
across the cabin.