From the horse' mouth, including followup by our own Ed Kelly...

First, a mouth-shooter:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Cruisers_Network_Online] US, Canadian boaters left in
limbo in Mexico
From:
Date: Fri, January 10, 2014 10:35 am
To:

Lots of sensationalism and information gaps in this report. None of the
affected vessels in Pacific Mexico reported being "stormed" by "heavily
armed military." It is a simple paperwork problem, magnified by some
bureaucratic errors, that boils down to people misunderstanding their
paperwork upon entry to Mexico; and either they or the Mexican Customs
officials putting the wrong number in the box that asks for "Official
Number." (Mexico wants a boat's hull ID number (HIN) in this box). The
majority of affected vessels either never had a HIN (too old; home-built;
etc.), or they had expired Temporary Import Permits (TIPs) that they had
failed to renew. In the case of the catamaran Profligate, they had a TIP
form that was valid 20 years ago but is not now the proper TIP to have.

The change in federal officials at the higher decision making level is
what escalated the paperwork problem to the point of temporarily
impounding some vessels who couldn't produce good paper; but according to
multiple posts in Yahoo's Southbound Group, most of the impounded vessels
were able to straighten out their paperwork and get released from impound
in a few days.

So while FauxNews is running a story now about the Mexican Army "storming"
US & Canadian boats, it ain't true. Mexico remains one of the easiest and
most flexible countries to check into & out of. The TIP for your boat is
good fo 10 years, and if you want to be truly careful with getting one,
you can get it completed online before you even leave the US for Mexico:
apply for their TIP at www.banjercito.com.mx,

Marianne Smith and Gary Barnett

s/v Gallant Fox

North Lake Worth/West Palm Beach FL

Then an actual victim:

As one of the boats that has been impounded, I take exception to =some=
of what you say. First 2 well armed military men did in fact accompany
each team of "inspectors" down each dock. Second, a TIP is good until
the day it expires. A 20-year TIP is good for 20 years and they had time
left on theirs. However, the 20-year TIPs are no longer available and
the current issue is for 10 years. Ours still has nearly 3 years left.
Third, there is likely no misunderstanding on the part of the cruisers.
Any misunderstanding is on the part of the Mexican government officials
at some level. If in Ensenada, it is at the check in where they put down
the wrong info or give wrong answers to cruiser's questions about their
forms and first time cruisers believe the officials know what they are
doing. If there is no HIN and they substitute whatever is there as
identification without any concern to the consequences and saying it is
not a problem they are encouraging a problem at a later time. Now.

Here is what happened for us:
I saw them coming down the docks and saw they were looking at paperwork.
Before they got to the boat I went to get our papers. They did ==not==
stop at the boat but continued on past. I figured they were doing some
kind of a spot check and we did not have any problem. When they came
back past, they again did not stop. At ==no== time did they yell the
boat name ==nor== did they knock on the hull ==or== indicate in any way
they wanted to check anything in regards to us. At no time did they make
their presence known to me. I know this because I was there onboard our
boat and could see and hear. Since they did ===not=== "inspect" our
boat, it came as a bit of a shock to end up on their list.

Another week or so later, another team came down to "inspect". Two
members of this team did in fact come onboard. One member checked our
physical TIP against the HIN and took a picture of the HIN with his
smart phone. He read it off to another member of the team onboard who
checked us off the (his copy) list and then read it off to yet another
team member on the dock. The first team member said everything was okay
and the Harbormaster who accompanied them said it was okay. We thought
everything had been cleared up.

As of this date, we are still on the list. NO ONE is being alowed to
leave or if they do there is at least a threat of some consequences that
might not be too nice since the port captain is NOT (as we have been
told) issuing departure paperwork for those on the list. How long will
this last? We haven't a clue. It could be cleared up today, this week,
next week, or in the next few months. However, bottom line is ====WE
WERE =NOT= INSPECTED DURING THAT INITIAL INSPECTION AND WE ARE ON THE
LIST. WE WERE INSPECTED ON THE 2ND INSPECTION AND ALL WAS IN ORDER AND
WE ARE STILL ON THE LIST.====

Has the AP story been a bit overblown? Yes. Still haven't seen the
"Fauxnews" story but presume it is more of the same. But, if you haven't
been here in our shoes at this time, don't presume to know that it is
all the cruiser's fault or that it will all blow over, etc. We're still
here and still on the list and we check frequently marina arbormaster
and marina attorney to see what the status is. If you have DIRECT,
FACTUAL information, please by all means post that IF it is new.
Opinions, well, please keep them to yourself. There are enough of those
to go around and then some.

Rick

S/V La Vita
1987 Hans Christian 33T

http://www.la-vita.us/blog/

Currently: Lying La Cruz de Huanacaxtle, Nayarit, Mexico

And, Ed:

Anne and List,

I have known Richard Spindler for quite a while now and think Anne did not
read his account.


His boat is there and involved. Plus he is in contact with many whose boats
were wrongfully seized by folks who did not know much about boats or how to
read HINs or details that were there. In many cases if you were not on your
boat you were listed as in violation and no one knows how to get the boat
back.


Some of the raids were conducted during the middle of the night with machine
gun armed agents coming aboard without warning... those folks were lucky. If
you were off your boat you were worse off.


According to a lot of reports, if you were not on your boat you are subject
to it being listed as impounded and there is no way to get your boat back
off the impounded list. Please read the Latitude 38 report of Richard, who
supports the country and has been traveling in it for 20 years.


Anne, did they impound a lot of legally registered cars because the owners
were not in them while legally parked as well? What are you referring to?


The link to the facts are at



http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/...8#.Us29BKEo6RI



Ed, on Angel Louise, lying London St Katharine Docks

And, another followup from Rick:

Alicia,

Thank you for your response. Thank you for your offer of assistance. As
things stand as of this minute, as we understand them, calling someone
on Monday MAY NOT be necessary. However, if you think it will help speed
things along or could in some way keep it from happening in the future,
perhaps it would not hurt to do so. You sound like you have some
personal connections and that could possibly help.

Now for what we hope is the GOOD news. We have today heard from a
reliable source that some boats have been released or are being released
from the impound. Apparently they MAY be being released marina by
marina. So, if my source is correct and things continue as expected,
this will all be over in the very near future.

The entire matter has indeed been escolated so high that it is a matter
that is now being spoken of country to country instead of within the
government from official to official. Hopefully this will not have any
lasting effect on Nautical Tourism or any other kind of tourism.
However, that is not likely since there are those that only remember the
bad parts and not the good. The good is that it is being resolved
relatively quickly and there has been minimal interruption in plans and
budget issues. The bad has been the unknown due to lack of communication
to those directly involved (us), all the speculation by those online and
not directly involved, The way it has apparently been blown out of
perspective (hopefully) by the news organizations, the way the officials
accomplished the initial "inspection", and the fact that it happened at
all.

We, personally, do our best to separate the actions of government
officials from those of the people of Mexico as we do the government of
any country from the citizens of those countries. Citizenry are all
essentially the same and want the same things. Governments, despite
their different points of view, are at least somewhat the same in their
need for and striving for power. New governments and old governments
seem to be some of the worst. I think it is a fact of life the world
over. Unfortunately we sometimes find ourselves in the middle between
the "knows" and the "know nothings". Such as it appears to be now. And
so therefore, we do NOT think less of the Mexican people because of
this. Our feelings about the new government on the other hand are still
waiting to be solidified. Still neutral even after all of this. And, as
new permanent residents of Mexico, it is important to us.

Rick

S/V La Vita
1987 Hans Christian 33T

http://www.la-vita.us/blog/

Currently: Lying La Cruz de Huanacaxtle, Nayarit, Mexico



L8R



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"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
Big story, big fiasco, 338 boats so far.

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2014-01-08#.Us96MLRBGl9