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On 17/10/12 19:35, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Good GRIEF! What a silly attitude. A 35-foot sailboat can be
pushed out of a slip by hand for gosh sake. If wind and current
is against you, have you ever heard of warping it out? Duh!

Or you can start the engine. Some people prefer one thing, some the
other. So what?

Imagine if your lazy attitude was in place 200-250 years ago
in the age of sail where very large vessels plied the seas and
the ports without the hint of an engine on board.

I trust you view fore-and-aft rigs with equal disdain.

Ian

"The Real Doctor" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/12 20:49, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Any law that says it's illegal to go through a
bridge (I assume you mean a bridge that opens) under sail power is an
unconstitutional law and needs to be challenged.

Really? Which clause of whose constitution, precisely?

Ian

"Section 2 of Article III of the United States Constitution gives
original jurisdiction in admiralty matters to the federal courts.
The federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over most admiralty
and maritime claims pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1333. Under this
statute, federal district courts are granted original jurisdiction
over admiralty actions "saving to suitors," a right to file suit for
most of these actions in state court."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._admiralty_law

In other words, any US state or municipality that attempts to
control navigation rights over and above those limits placed upon
it by the federal courts is acting unilaterally and at odds with
federal jurisdiction. All it would take to overturn ANY local law
restricting sailing under bridges would be a case filed in
federal court.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Just a small interjection here...

I once saw an on-line video of an instructor sailing a dinghy (that would be
a small racing sailboat) BACKWARDS through a maze (pilings in a row,
zig-zagging between them)...

You can do amazing things if you're one with your ship...

Agreed! There might just be hope for you as a sailor yet, Skippy!

It's a sad state of affairs when confirmed motor heads attempt
to tell those of us who know how to handle our boats under sail
alone that it can't be done or that it's somehow rude, anti-social
or dangerous to do it. Balderdash!

Wilbur Hubbard

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:18:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Disagree that sails just don't break down unexpectedly. Add in all the
rigging and there are failures. Regular inspection and maintenance
makes a big difference, but sail/rigging failures do happen. Perhaps
no more or no less than a maintained diesel?

Agreed. I've my sails rip much more often then having the engine
fail.

You just admitted:

1) you don't bother looking at, much less maintaining, your sails,

How did I admit that? My sails are meticulously maintained. I dry
them after sailing and fold them carefully.

2) you are either too lazy or too ignorant to bend on or reef so
as to have the correct sail for the wind and sea conditions,

I reef when the wind is 15 knots or over.

3) as sails don't last forever they must be replaced prior to
being in such a sad state that they expire on the job, you
are ignoring reality and acting irresponsibly.

You are totally blowing smoke out your ass. My mainsail costs $3300
dollars. I keep it in excellent condition. When a rip happens we
patch it with sail tape and when getting back to the dock we take it
to our sailmaker and we always follow his advice. If he says we need
a need a new sail we will get one.

I hope this helps.

You are an asshole and you don't know what you are talking about.

Vote for Romney. Repeal the nightmares.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:59:18 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

"The Real Doctor" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/12 20:49, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Any law that says it's illegal to go through a
bridge (I assume you mean a bridge that opens) under sail power is an
unconstitutional law and needs to be challenged.

Really? Which clause of whose constitution, precisely?

Ian

"Section 2 of Article III of the United States Constitution gives
original jurisdiction in admiralty matters to the federal courts.
The federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over most admiralty
and maritime claims pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1333. Under this
statute, federal district courts are granted original jurisdiction
over admiralty actions "saving to suitors," a right to file suit for
most of these actions in state court."

I don't see sailboats or motors mentioned there.

Vote for Romney. Repeal the nightmares.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:18:42 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 07:15:48 -0500, Rick Morel
wrote this crap:

Disagree that sails just don't break down unexpectedly. Add in all the
rigging and there are failures. Regular inspection and maintenance
makes a big difference, but sail/rigging failures do happen. Perhaps
no more or no less than a maintained diesel?

Agreed. I've my sails rip much more often then having the engine
fail.

You just admitted:

1) you don't bother looking at, much less maintaining, your sails,

2) you are either too lazy or too ignorant to bend on or reef so
as to have the correct sail for the wind and sea conditions,

3) as sails don't last forever they must be replaced prior to
being in such a sad state that they expire on the job, you
are ignoring reality and acting irresponsibly.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

And thus speaks Willie-boy, the ultimate Armchair Sailor. Such a
knowledgeable chap.... and all from reading magazines he steals from
the news stand.

--
Cheers,
Bruce

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:28:16 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
åke wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:35:35 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

I've got a 35 foot sailboat. How do you propose getting in and out of
the dock without a motor?

Good GRIEF! What a silly attitude. A 35-foot sailboat can be
pushed out of a slip by hand for gosh sake. If wind and current
is against you, have you ever heard of warping it out? Duh!

Not a problem if you have a full crew. Suppose it's just you and a
friend?

Warping can be accomplished single handed. It requires using an anchor or
anchors and rowing the dinghy.

Besides, I have to back out of the dock, then turn, then stop, then
turn again, then go forward then turn again. Nearly impossible
without the motor. The wind is usually behind me when I back out.

Then get a more suitable slip or dock. Duh! Or, better yet, get a mooring.
Your motor boat mentality is on display.

Imagine if your lazy attitude was in place 200-250 years ago
in the age of sail where very large vessels plied the seas and
the ports without the hint of an engine on board. Did freight
and passengers not get delivered before the age of steam
boats?

Those boats usually had a large crew, not to mention a lot of people
who worked on the docks. Today you always have tugboats steering the
ships into the docks.

Small boats have a small crew and large boats have a large crew. Small should
not equate to inept.

Not to mention picking up a mooring ball.

OMG. I pick up my mooring float all the time with a boat hook
totally under sail. It's a matter of sailing up on it on a beat then
pinching up, then heading directly into the wind letting the
sails luff while the vessel fore reaches up to and comes to
a halt at the float. It's a matter of knowning how one's vessel
handles under sail. It's a matter of knowing how far she fore
reaches prior to coming to a standstill.

Sure, I can grab the mooring ball with a boat hook, but how do I tie a
line onto it? There's four feet of freeboard, dumbass. Even laying
on your belly your arms ain't long enough to attach a line to it. I
tie a line to the bow cleat, and bring it back to the stern. I have
someone stand on the swim platform while I back up to the ball and
it's relatively easy to tie onto it. You can't do that under sail,
especially in high winds and four foot waves.

Psssst. http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/the_handy_duck_mooring_hook/

It looks like you don't sail much if you've never seen one of those or
a hand-rigged version of it.

I can see me now, pulling into a busy harbor with very little wind on
a holiday weekend. It can be done, but it's a huge inconvenience to
all the other boats going in and out.

You should be able to sail your 35-footer in light winds. If you
can't then you should be practicing. I sail into harbors more
often than not. About the only time I don't sail into harbors is
if there is a narrow fairway into them and a headwind that
makes it difficult or impossible to beat into the harbor.

The marina I go into has a narrow entrance. On a holiday weekend
there are hundreds of boats going in and out each hour. On a big
holiday, such a memorial day they have sheriffs directing traffic. To
be sailing under those conditions would inconvenience a hundred boats
trying to get in and out. BTW, this is Western Lake Erie. If you
check a chart you will see that the average depth is five feet. When
leaving the marina I have to go through a jetty for about two hundred
yards, because that's where it is dredged. Then go another hundred
yards to get to deep water to start sailing. To be sailing there is to
court running aground. And I've seen lot's of sailboats run aground
right in front of the marina.

Then get a better marina. Good grief! Why pay good money for an untenable
situation?

Coming in at night, you have to line up the range lights, then look
for the red and green lights at the end of the jetty and steer between
them. If you try doing that under sail you risk running aground. The
entrance is directly West and the wind is usually from the West. There
is no room for tacking. If you have a cat or a tri, it's impossible
without a motor. Even for a large sailboat like mine, it's still
impossible.

I repeat, then get a better marina.

A real sailor works wind, current and traffic conditions with
aplomb. No fuss, no muss. Actually, my boat handles BETTER
under sail than under motor power. The power is more
balanced instead of being all at the prop which is aft. Can you
heave-to under motor power, for example?

Not a problem. I have a 28 horse Yanmar diesel. A real sailor also
has courtesy to other boaters. There is a mixture of power boaters
and sail boaters using the same lake and same marina.

And thus speaks Willie-boy who can't afford a marina berth and
expounds out of envy of his betters.
--
Cheers,
Bruce

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:04:01 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Just a small interjection here...

I once saw an on-line video of an instructor sailing a dinghy (that would be
a small racing sailboat) BACKWARDS through a maze (pilings in a row,
zig-zagging between them)...

You can do amazing things if you're one with your ship...

Agreed! There might just be hope for you as a sailor yet, Skippy!

It's a sad state of affairs when confirmed motor heads attempt
to tell those of us who know how to handle our boats under sail
alone that it can't be done or that it's somehow rude, anti-social
or dangerous to do it. Balderdash!

Wilbur Hubbard

"We who know how to handle our boats"? Willie-boy, the renowned
Armchair Sailor? Who gained his vast knowledge from reading magazines?

You have to be joking.
--
Cheers,
Bruce

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:59:18 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

"The Real Doctor" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/12 20:49, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Any law that says it's illegal to go through a
bridge (I assume you mean a bridge that opens) under sail power is an
unconstitutional law and needs to be challenged.

Really? Which clause of whose constitution, precisely?

"Section 2 of Article III of the United States Constitution gives
original jurisdiction in admiralty matters to the federal courts.
The federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over most admiralty
and maritime claims pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1333. Under this
statute, federal district courts are granted original jurisdiction
over admiralty actions "saving to suitors," a right to file suit for
most of these actions in state court."

I don't see sailboats or motors mentioned there.

Too ****ing bad!!!

Wilbur Hubbard