On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:04:48 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, Bruce,



About 12 total feet of 2" pipe has been reduced from a rough gray, with
some
manufacturing marks and dings removed, to a flawless 400-grit, ready for
polish. The 3.5" pipe which will replace the rotted structure on the
roller
system is to a 220 grit; two more to go. The plates on the end of this
pipe, when installed, are ready for polish.


I'm amazed at what you are saying. "Most Stainless Guys" use a 4 inch
angle grinder with a selection of "flap" wheels in various grits and
then a series of felt buffing wheels with at least two abrasives
(rouge being the coarest). The real serious people use dedicated hand
held polishers. 12 ft of rail is hardly a day's work :-)

I have done some flap-wheel prep on mill-finish work, and that particular
set of SS (became the brackets to our stern platform) STILL has the
scratches.

Then you were either: (1) Using the wrong technique, or (2) using the
wrong wheels. I use flap wheels on a 6 inch bench grinder as a first
step in a polishing program. I got this idea from the local chrome
plating shop.

Otherwise, the sequence of what I was doing is as you describe -
80/120/220/320/400 grit with an air 6" DA, then (the guy who's doing the
welding was kind enough to let me do the polishing to that point) the shop's
10" wheel and rouge/finer takes over from there.

Just how bad is your stainless? I would use 80 grit as a first step
from rough metal, or as a fine grinding wheel, for example to radius a
corner weld.

Despite what you say, avoiding flats and dishes on a round item,
particularly one without a large radius, is hard enough with a wide wheel,
let alone a small one. The stuff I'd done with flap wheel was flat, MUCH
easier to get it all - but it still left scratches after some very
aggressive polishing after the flapwheels.


Regardless, that is how this amazing craftsman (I've seen his work - once
bitten, twice shy, from prior SS work, particularly my arch - so have
confidence in the outcome) does it. I could (and likely would) do worse
than to do something else. Keeping the pipe and sander moving (no flats) is
the biggest challenge; the rest is grunt work.


I assume that if you are working with teak that you know that
breathing the sanding dust is not good for you. At least the people
here all believe it.

Yah, I know. Darth Vader mask and goggles.


Teak, by the way, in a country, where it once was plentiful, is now
extremely expensive. I can't even begin to guess what it would cost in
a foreign country :-)

My bitch about all this is that the material was a relatively small part of
the costs. I asked how much more in materials it would be for teak and the
difference was under 10%. The dance began when I sourced some locally at a
surplus joint (where he got the trim for the forward head), which sells it
by the pound. One of his "selling" points was that teak would be very
heavy, vs. the stuff he used which, admittedly, is lightweight - but, so's
Balsa (I used to be a modeler)! He claimed what they had wasn't teak - yet,
he used what they had to do the trim - and that he couldn't get any from any
other supplier.

"Teak" is supposed to be one species of tropical hardwood but it seems
to vary a rather large amount in both density and color from place to
place. But as a general statement it is not either a very hard or
heavy wood - it is actually a species of tropical birch, at least not
in comparison to other tropical hardwoods. You can indent teak with
your thumbnail, for example. If you have been around it you can even
identify it by smell.

But for boat use it's major strong point is that it is a very oily
wood and lasts well if exposed, as in a deck, nor do bugs eat it. For
interior trim it has no particular virtue - unless you have termites
on board :-)

Regardless, we're faced with the near certainty of having to do it over. As
I'd never worked with it, I had no idea how soft this stuff was, so allowed
myself to be bullied into accepting it. As it was, in the end, the
workmanship was so abominable (which, just in finish alone, was why Lydia
has spent so much time on the table), notably the "cabinetry" (making all
line up, and keeping flush stuff flush) that I'm half-glad that it wasn't
teak, or it would have been ruined.

He may do great furniture and cabinetry, but he sure doesn't do marine stuff
worth a flip, including using standard steel screws (or, at least, they
stick to my marginally magnetized screwdriver - WTF was he thinking?!?). The
only actual stainless stuff on this table is hardware I provided (rebated
from the price he quoted, as agreed).

Tomorrow, the Raymarine guy who actually keeps his promise (two prior have
not, one multiple times, the other merely refusing to even answer the
phone
when I call to ask when he'll be here - he left to get a cable to test our
new triducer, after a few minutes aboard to assess the work, and never
came
back) to show up will be here to install the new triducer for the
fishfinder. Today I pulled the old one's wires through to the bow, with
accompanying strings for leads for the new single cable, removed the
Y-valve, and generally made ready for installation.

Further to the reliability/responsibility of this vendor, this AM, a couple
of hours before our agreed start time , I got an email from him saying he'd
be a bit late, as he had a sea trial he had to do before he got here - but
that he WAS going to be here, just a bit later than originally agreed. The
prior two would have, in the first case, said nothing whatever, and, in the
three prior appointments, never showed up at all, and in the second, just
disappeared and then screened my calls as confirmed by another yard buddy
getting picked up on the same number immediately after one of my calls.
"I'm sorry, we're totally buried - I can't do your work. You'll have to
find someone else." would have been an appropriate dodge if, for some
reason, he just didn't want the job. WTF is wrong with contractors? Are
they so buried with work that they don't have to think about the reputation
they generate by such behavior?

/rant :{))

L8R

Skip

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi, Bruce, and other readers worldwide (I wonder how many there actually are
besides the anonymous knee-jerk Neal-bashers, "Wilbur", Cavelamb, you and a
couple of others - even "Bob" hasn't fired a shot in a while, and Roger's
off cruising - a quickie "here I am" response would shed some light on the
question...),

I'm amazed at what you are saying. "Most Stainless Guys" use a 4 inch
angle grinder with a selection of "flap" wheels in various grits and
then a series of felt buffing wheels with at least two abrasives
(rouge being the coarest). The real serious people use dedicated hand
held polishers. 12 ft of rail is hardly a day's work :-)

I have done some flap-wheel prep on mill-finish work, and that particular
set of SS (became the brackets to our stern platform) STILL has the
scratches.

Then you were either: (1) Using the wrong technique, or (2) using the
wrong wheels. I use flap wheels on a 6 inch bench grinder as a first
step in a polishing program. I got this idea from the local chrome
plating shop.

Doing what I had on a bench grinder (other than the cloth steps, which,
indeed, is what he used for the final brilliant level, albeit with a 10"
post-mounted one, open, allowing more access) and flap wheels (wait! - are
you speaking of radial flaps, or horizontal flaps? I've never seen radial
flaps for a grinder) would have been very challenging.


Otherwise, the sequence of what I was doing is as you describe -
80/120/220/320/400 grit with an air 6" DA, then (the guy who's doing the
welding was kind enough to let me do the polishing to that point) the
shop's
10" wheel and rouge/finer takes over from there.

Just how bad is your stainless? I would use 80 grit as a first step
from rough metal, or as a fine grinding wheel, for example to radius a
corner weld.

The stuff was mill finish - an even gray (if you discount the dings and the
relatively straight lines in some cases). I have lots of pix of the
process, but have not yet processed them or put them up on my gallery, but
that WILL happen, under a "new material" section of the anchor system repair
in the 2011 refit gallery.

The stuff on the boat wasn't bad at all - but it wasn't very accessible,
making polishing (well, still sanding, not yet to the cloth stage) a bit
challenging. I think I'm at the 220 stage there, but as I've been busy
doing other things at the moment, don't remember what grade is still stuck
to my Makita :{))


Despite what you say, avoiding flats and dishes on a round item,
particularly one without a large radius, is hard enough with a wide wheel,
let alone a small one. The stuff I'd done with flap wheel was flat, MUCH
easier to get it all - but it still left scratches after some very
aggressive polishing after the flapwheels.

Here, I'm referring to 4.5" disks with layered sanding surfaces. If I'd had
(never seen them, other than for drill-mount...) radial flaps, it probably
would have made a difference...



"Teak" is supposed to be one species of tropical hardwood but it seems
to vary a rather large amount in both density and color from place to
place. But as a general statement it is not either a very hard or
heavy wood - it is actually a species of tropical birch, at least not
in comparison to other tropical hardwoods. You can indent teak with
your thumbnail, for example. If you have been around it you can even
identify it by smell.

Indeed. When I'm scavenging, I cut a little with my knife and give it a
sniff before I take it.


But for boat use it's major strong point is that it is a very oily
wood and lasts well if exposed, as in a deck, nor do bugs eat it. For
interior trim it has no particular virtue - unless you have termites
on board :-)

:{)) None yet! But it sure is pretty when it's varnished!

L8R

Skip, on to trying to figure out why my fishfinder will power up, but not
again unless I remove the power lead after shutting it down, and tackling
the refrigeration


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand."
(Richard Bach, in "Illusions of a Reluctant Messiah"

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:39:48 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, Bruce, and other readers worldwide (I wonder how many there actually are
besides the anonymous knee-jerk Neal-bashers, "Wilbur", Cavelamb, you and a
couple of others - even "Bob" hasn't fired a shot in a while, and Roger's
off cruising - a quickie "here I am" response would shed some light on the
question...),


Yo.
Keep 'em coming.

--Vic

On 29/07/2011 8:52 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:39:48 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, Bruce, and other readers worldwide (I wonder how many there actually are
besides the anonymous knee-jerk Neal-bashers, "Wilbur", Cavelamb, you and a
couple of others - even "Bob" hasn't fired a shot in a while, and Roger's
off cruising - a quickie "here I am" response would shed some light on the
question...),


Yo.
Keep 'em coming.

--Vic

Reading with interest.
Hoges on the Chesapeake
Getting our 42 MkII ready to head down your way in November.

On 7/29/2011 5:39 AM, Flying Pig wrote:
Hi, Bruce, and other readers worldwide (I wonder how many there actually are
besides the anonymous knee-jerk Neal-bashers, "Wilbur", Cavelamb, you and a
couple of others - even "Bob" hasn't fired a shot in a while, and Roger's
off cruising - a quickie "here I am" response would shed some light on the
question...),

I'm amazed at what you are saying. "Most Stainless Guys" use a 4 inch
angle grinder with a selection of "flap" wheels in various grits and
then a series of felt buffing wheels with at least two abrasives
(rouge being the coarest). The real serious people use dedicated hand
held polishers. 12 ft of rail is hardly a day's work :-)

I have done some flap-wheel prep on mill-finish work, and that particular
set of SS (became the brackets to our stern platform) STILL has the
scratches.

Then you were either: (1) Using the wrong technique, or (2) using the
wrong wheels. I use flap wheels on a 6 inch bench grinder as a first
step in a polishing program. I got this idea from the local chrome
plating shop.

Doing what I had on a bench grinder (other than the cloth steps, which,
indeed, is what he used for the final brilliant level, albeit with a 10"
post-mounted one, open, allowing more access) and flap wheels (wait! - are
you speaking of radial flaps, or horizontal flaps? I've never seen radial
flaps for a grinder) would have been very challenging.


Otherwise, the sequence of what I was doing is as you describe -
80/120/220/320/400 grit with an air 6" DA, then (the guy who's doing the
welding was kind enough to let me do the polishing to that point) the
shop's
10" wheel and rouge/finer takes over from there.

Just how bad is your stainless? I would use 80 grit as a first step
from rough metal, or as a fine grinding wheel, for example to radius a
corner weld.

The stuff was mill finish - an even gray (if you discount the dings and the
relatively straight lines in some cases). I have lots of pix of the
process, but have not yet processed them or put them up on my gallery, but
that WILL happen, under a "new material" section of the anchor system repair
in the 2011 refit gallery.

The stuff on the boat wasn't bad at all - but it wasn't very accessible,
making polishing (well, still sanding, not yet to the cloth stage) a bit
challenging. I think I'm at the 220 stage there, but as I've been busy
doing other things at the moment, don't remember what grade is still stuck
to my Makita :{))


Despite what you say, avoiding flats and dishes on a round item,
particularly one without a large radius, is hard enough with a wide wheel,
let alone a small one. The stuff I'd done with flap wheel was flat, MUCH
easier to get it all - but it still left scratches after some very
aggressive polishing after the flapwheels.

Here, I'm referring to 4.5" disks with layered sanding surfaces. If I'd had
(never seen them, other than for drill-mount...) radial flaps, it probably
would have made a difference...



"Teak" is supposed to be one species of tropical hardwood but it seems
to vary a rather large amount in both density and color from place to
place. But as a general statement it is not either a very hard or
heavy wood - it is actually a species of tropical birch, at least not
in comparison to other tropical hardwoods. You can indent teak with
your thumbnail, for example. If you have been around it you can even
identify it by smell.

Indeed. When I'm scavenging, I cut a little with my knife and give it a
sniff before I take it.


But for boat use it's major strong point is that it is a very oily
wood and lasts well if exposed, as in a deck, nor do bugs eat it. For
interior trim it has no particular virtue - unless you have termites
on board :-)

:{)) None yet! But it sure is pretty when it's varnished!

L8R

Skip, on to trying to figure out why my fishfinder will power up, but not
again unless I remove the power lead after shutting it down, and tackling
the refrigeration



Here I am. Still reading Skip!

Stephen

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:39:48 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, Bruce, and other readers worldwide (I wonder how many there actually are
besides the anonymous knee-jerk Neal-bashers, "Wilbur", Cavelamb, you and a
couple of others - even "Bob" hasn't fired a shot in a while, and Roger's
off cruising - a quickie "here I am" response would shed some light on the
question...),

I'm amazed at what you are saying. "Most Stainless Guys" use a 4 inch
angle grinder with a selection of "flap" wheels in various grits and
then a series of felt buffing wheels with at least two abrasives
(rouge being the coarest). The real serious people use dedicated hand
held polishers. 12 ft of rail is hardly a day's work :-)

I have done some flap-wheel prep on mill-finish work, and that particular
set of SS (became the brackets to our stern platform) STILL has the
scratches.

Then you were either: (1) Using the wrong technique, or (2) using the
wrong wheels. I use flap wheels on a 6 inch bench grinder as a first
step in a polishing program. I got this idea from the local chrome
plating shop.

Doing what I had on a bench grinder (other than the cloth steps, which,
indeed, is what he used for the final brilliant level, albeit with a 10"
post-mounted one, open, allowing more access) and flap wheels (wait! - are
you speaking of radial flaps, or horizontal flaps? I've never seen radial
flaps for a grinder) would have been very challenging.


I probably wasn't making myself clear (I frequently don't :-) I was
pointing out that I used a "flap wheel" as a first step in polishing
stainless - or other metals, in response to your post that flap wheel
work leaves scratches.


Otherwise, the sequence of what I was doing is as you describe -
80/120/220/320/400 grit with an air 6" DA, then (the guy who's doing the
welding was kind enough to let me do the polishing to that point) the
shop's
10" wheel and rouge/finer takes over from there.

Just how bad is your stainless? I would use 80 grit as a first step
from rough metal, or as a fine grinding wheel, for example to radius a
corner weld.

The stuff was mill finish - an even gray (if you discount the dings and the
relatively straight lines in some cases). I have lots of pix of the
process, but have not yet processed them or put them up on my gallery, but
that WILL happen, under a "new material" section of the anchor system repair
in the 2011 refit gallery.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. On one hand you talk
about what appears to be stainless tubing - rails, arches, etc., which
I would have assumed would have been built of polished stainless
tubing and only the joins needing polishing. On the other hand you
talk about "mill finish" which I would assume would be a reference to
something manufactured from flat rolled plate..... although I've never
seen anything intended for a boat that wasn't a polished finish.

The stuff on the boat wasn't bad at all - but it wasn't very accessible,
making polishing (well, still sanding, not yet to the cloth stage) a bit
challenging. I think I'm at the 220 stage there, but as I've been busy
doing other things at the moment, don't remember what grade is still stuck
to my Makita :{))


Despite what you say, avoiding flats and dishes on a round item,
particularly one without a large radius, is hard enough with a wide wheel,
let alone a small one. The stuff I'd done with flap wheel was flat, MUCH
easier to get it all - but it still left scratches after some very
aggressive polishing after the flapwheels.

Here, I'm referring to 4.5" disks with layered sanding surfaces. If I'd had
(never seen them, other than for drill-mount...) radial flaps, it probably
would have made a difference...

Yes, that is a common type of "flap disk" and depending on how many
layers there and how closely they are inter-leaved they have
significant differences in stiffness and thus gouge making ability.
there are also some that are made with strips of abrasive cloth
mounted at a 90 degree to the shaft of the mounting hole that are much
softer and less likely to make "strange marks".


"Teak" is supposed to be one species of tropical hardwood but it seems
to vary a rather large amount in both density and color from place to
place. But as a general statement it is not either a very hard or
heavy wood - it is actually a species of tropical birch, at least not
in comparison to other tropical hardwoods. You can indent teak with
your thumbnail, for example. If you have been around it you can even
identify it by smell.

Indeed. When I'm scavenging, I cut a little with my knife and give it a
sniff before I take it.


But for boat use it's major strong point is that it is a very oily
wood and lasts well if exposed, as in a deck, nor do bugs eat it. For
interior trim it has no particular virtue - unless you have termites
on board :-)

:{)) None yet! But it sure is pretty when it's varnished!

L8R

Skip, on to trying to figure out why my fishfinder will power up, but not
again unless I remove the power lead after shutting it down, and tackling
the refrigeration
Cheers,

Bruce

On Jul 29, 5:39*am, "Flying Pig" wrote:
Hi, Bruce, and other readers worldwide (I wonder how many there actually are
besides the anonymous knee-jerk Neal-bashers, "Wilbur", Cavelamb, you and a
couple of others - even "Bob" hasn't fired a shot in a while, and Roger's
off cruising - a quickie "here I am" response would shed some light on the
question...),


HOpe youre having fun Skip....... two comments.

one, 60 grt on stainless??? Im assuming your grinding welds and not
attempting to polish rust.. wtf?!?! Damn you must have some serious
corrsion ie ****ty grade SS.

two, there are a ton of other woods out there you can get here in the
usa that will work/last as good as teak. try Pacific Yew Wood or maybe
Black Locust. In the PNW they are lopping 100 year old trees down
because the Black Locus boring Beattle is munching them. Loads of logs
availible for the taking.

Old growth doug fir is excelelnt. Ya worried about warping??? have a
doormaker make a custom solid lam door with a quarter inch veener
black walnut.... jsut because its a boat dont mean its anything
fancier than a land mansion......

hell the house I have now has 130 year old doug fir ballon framing
held togehter with square nails..... zero rot. the grain is as tight
as the pages on an unabridged dictionary.... 1000 year old trees make
good boat building wood. Yes you can still get it easily at a fair
price. just gota know where to look.

SKip P L E A S E ....... ! The Pig aint nothin fancy.... its a ****ing
boat!

I hope this finds you well its been sometimes since I had a chance to
say helloo. See you on the water

Bob

Hi, Bob,

"Bob" wrote in message
...

HOpe youre having fun Skip....... two comments.

one, 60 grt on stainless??? Im assuming your grinding welds and not
attempting to polish rust.. wtf?!?! Damn you must have some serious
corrsion ie ****ty grade SS.

********
Sorry, I miswrote. Start with 80, and work down (well, up). No rust - cut
all that off -just leftovers from barely brushed mill finish which is now
brilliant
*********

two, there are a ton of other woods out there you can get here in the
usa that will work/last as good as teak. try Pacific Yew Wood or maybe
Black Locust. In the PNW they are lopping 100 year old trees down
because the Black Locus boring Beattle is munching them. Loads of logs
availible for the taking.

*********
Hm. How would I get it here on the east coast?
*********

Old growth doug fir is excelelnt. Ya worried about warping??? have a
doormaker make a custom solid lam door with a quarter inch veener
black walnut.... jsut because its a boat dont mean its anything
fancier than a land mansion......

hell the house I have now has 130 year old doug fir ballon framing
held togehter with square nails..... zero rot. the grain is as tight
as the pages on an unabridged dictionary.... 1000 year old trees make
good boat building wood. Yes you can still get it easily at a fair
price. just gota know where to look.

************
Heh. The house I grew up in will be 100 years old in a couple of years.
The 2x were just that, full dimension, and made from yellow pine.

In 62, when there was some remodeling, the contractors broke blade after
blade trying to cut the stuff. Aged yellow pine is about like iron.

So, I'm not surprised. Getting that aged (or original growth) wood is a bit
challenging...
*************

SKip P L E A S E ....... ! The Pig aint nothin fancy.... its a ****ing
boat!

**********
The Flying Pig is talented, but not THAT talented!
**********

I hope this finds you well its been sometimes since I had a chance to
say helloo. See you on the water

Bob

********
Yes, we are well, if hot. Seen in the moved thread, the refrigeration is
going well, as is the taping for the new boot stripe and reveal line (used a
laser to keep it straight, a vast improvement over our eyeball of 4 years
ago).

See you on the water if you ever get to this side of the world!

L8R

Skip


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."