http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76H3QG20110718


Almost as bad as losing a boat in a Gulf of Mexico cold front . . .


Wilbur Hubbard

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:34:53 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76H3QG20110718


Almost as bad as losing a boat in a Gulf of Mexico cold front . . .


Wilbur Hubbard


You mock dead sailors?

You are worthless.



I've been saying for years that sailing is a dangerous business and those
who sail should not take it lightly.

Yet, all too man continue to take it lightly. Few who die sailing are
sailors, anyway. Those who survive are the sailors, IMO.

It is my learned opinion that anybody who capsizes a ballasted 35-foot
sailboat on Lake Michigan has taken it lightly. They apparently thought
racing which is a frivolous activity at best, was more important than
cautious safety and concern for life and limb. They died because of their
failure to take it seriously.

Although I feel it is their right to not take it seriously, it is NOT their
right to expect anybody to take THEM seriously. That they died because of
their taking it lightly does not concern me and it should not concern you
other than as a lesson teaching the fact that if you don't pay attention you
will end up paying the piper.

Seems to me this proves what I've been saying along. Sailing is a serious
business and people ignore that fact at the peril of their very lives.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:58:06 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Sailing is a serious
business and people ignore that fact at the peril of their very lives.

That's certainly a true statement but racers are notorious for cutting
corners with respect to safety in my opinion. I raced for many years
but tried very hard to ensure that we were properly equipped and in a
suitable boat. Unfortunately the trend is towards lighter boats with
greater sail area. That unquestionably creates a faster boat that is
more fun to sail in average conditions but the ability to self recover
from a capsize is seriously compromised.

The boat that capsized is a Kiwi 35, an ultra light design that relies
on hiking wings for stability. It has been controversial for many
years and this time people got caught off base. The race organizers
are partly responsible for allowing the boat in the race. Offshore
events like Newport-Bermuda have much stricter standards and would
never have permitted it.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2004/images/fun%20in%20the%20sun.jpg

http://sailboatdata.com/imagehelper.asp?FILE_id=3879

"Wayne B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:58:06 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Sailing is a serious
business and people ignore that fact at the peril of their very lives.

That's certainly a true statement but racers are notorious for cutting
corners with respect to safety in my opinion. I raced for many years
but tried very hard to ensure that we were properly equipped and in a
suitable boat. Unfortunately the trend is towards lighter boats with
greater sail area. That unquestionably creates a faster boat that is
more fun to sail in average conditions but the ability to self recover
from a capsize is seriously compromised.

The boat that capsized is a Kiwi 35, an ultra light design that relies
on hiking wings for stability. It has been controversial for many
years and this time people got caught off base. The race organizers
are partly responsible for allowing the boat in the race. Offshore
events like Newport-Bermuda have much stricter standards and would
never have permitted it.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2004/images/fun%20in%20the%20sun.jpg

http://sailboatdata.com/imagehelper.asp?FILE_id=3879




Yes, oftentimes racers seem to be more concerned with winning than with
safety. They take too many chances and use equipment that is too flimsy all
in the name of weight savings. Most accidents occur because conditions
become too severe for them or the boat to survive but they attempted to
carry on in spite.

It is folly to place finish line ahead of of life line.

Had they thrown in the towel sooner rather than later and changed their
focus to safety ahead of winning they probably would have lived to race
another day. But, let me reiterate. I think it is their right to place
winning above their lives. But, given that, it does not make that right any
less of a folly.


Wilbur Hubbard

With all due respect, Wilbur, until you've sailed in Lake Michigan, which is
pretty shallow in most places (making long-period waves difficult), you have
no idea of how challenging it CAN be.

I'm a bit perplexed about the loss of life, however, as at least some of the
crew managed to get a locator on the end of the keel, and a MOB pole stuck
in the rudder post hole...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...&type=1&ref=nf

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

And, further to my last, the last para in your cited article has some clues:

"Lake Michigan generates some of the steepest waves of any body of water
anywhere, because of its geography and depth, according to sailing experts."

L8R

Skip


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:28:56 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

I'm a bit perplexed about the loss of life

I'm not. Lake Michigan is darned cold, even this time of year.
Couple that with rough, windy conditions, plus a capsized boat and I'd
say they were lucky to save six of them. All it takes is one
snootful of water when you're cold and exhausted.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:19:44 -0400, WaIIy wrote:

The current temp is around 70, so not too bad.

Not too bad for wading in at the beach and paddling around for a few
minutes in calm, controlled conditions. When you're literally
fighting for your life in rough windy conditions after a surprise
immersion, that's an entirely different thing. Have you ever taken a
knock down in a sail boat? Things happen pretty quickly and you get
bumped around quite a bit.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 09:56:27 -0400, WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:33:13 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

And, further to my last, the last para in your cited article has some clues:

"Lake Michigan generates some of the steepest waves of any body of water
anywhere, because of its geography and depth, according to sailing experts."

L8R

Skip

Michigan and particularly Erie don't know what a long period wave is.

It get's brutal. Wilbur is clueless about the Great Lakes.


I edit your post :-) "Wilbur is clueless", the rest is redundant.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)