Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:13:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
...

The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we
could
do a new bottom coat.

Between the blister repairs we did in our original,

We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will
keep
water
away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to
blisters,
later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was
applied
over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory
means
of
applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very
long
time
ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our
initial
refit


Dear skip
please describe your bottom history.
im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister
job... and how your bottom looks now?


You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition
yourself
if you've spent time in various boatyards.

"Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as
Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of
roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters
rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the
largish
repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several
times.
Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the
"Pig"
lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he
would
never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also
in
evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18
all
told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL
need
replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic
action.
Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this
stage.

For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that
doesn't
usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there
under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new
blisters.
The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to
store
the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are
brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the
summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only
then
is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard
Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!)

Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a
subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of
advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at
the drugstore.
Cheers,


Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of
the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it
thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment.
Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can
carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain
ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water
as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is
impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability.
But,
if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer
on
the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a
membrane
will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats
have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly
and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment.
Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier
coat
a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you
want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out.
Now,
run along, you're ignorance bothers me.

Wilbur Hubbard



As I said, you need to read a better class of magazines.

Unfortunately osmosis is not the simple "dry it out" problem as some
people seem to think. Rather then a laminate saturated with water the
problem is caused by absorbed water which combined with chemicals
resident in the laminate form additional complex chemicals. Puncture
any osmosis blister and you can smell the vinegar like odor of the
chemical mix. The old idea of drying the hull failed as the resident
chemicals do not evaporate.

The quickest remedy is to wash the hull with fresh water which
dissolves the chemicals and removes them from the laminate. More
exactly a series of washdowns and drying (to remove the wash water) is
usually desirable as it removes the maximum amount of the chemicals
causing the osmosis.

Of course this is a very simple explanation of the problem and the
cure however remembering who the explanation is intended for I have
tried to keep things on a level that the reader may have some hope of
understanding.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



You people are IDIOTS. You WON'T get water inside the laminate where the
osmotic fluid resides to dilute it and was it out by washing down the
outside of the hull with fresh water repeatedly any more than you'll get
water into your intestines by taking a shower. The hull is not permeable
unless there's a pressure gradient which is how an osmotic membrane works.
If your STUPID theory worked, then every time it rained you would see water
seeping into the gelcoat of your deck and you would see osmotic fluid
leeching out afterwards. Just why the **** do you morons think the osmotic
fluid that creates the blisters doesn't also blister the topsides and deck
if your totally retarded washdown theory was actually true?

How people can read some dumb article that makes no physical sense and then
believe it wholeheartedly without at least thinking about it logically
doesn't bode well for the state of intellect of todays so-called sailor.

Wilbur Hubbard

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
 

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:33:16 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:13:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
...

The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we
could
do a new bottom coat.

Between the blister repairs we did in our original,

We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will
keep
water
away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to
blisters,
later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was
applied
over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory
means
of
applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very
long
time
ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our
initial
refit


Dear skip
please describe your bottom history.
im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister
job... and how your bottom looks now?


You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition
yourself
if you've spent time in various boatyards.

"Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as
Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of
roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters
rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the
largish
repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several
times.
Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the
"Pig"
lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he
would
never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also
in
evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18
all
told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL
need
replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic
action.
Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this
stage.

For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that
doesn't
usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there
under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new
blisters.
The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to
store
the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are
brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the
summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only
then
is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard
Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!)

Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a
subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of
advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at
the drugstore.
Cheers,


Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of
the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it
thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment.
Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can
carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain
ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water
as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is
impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability.
But,
if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer
on
the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a
membrane
will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats
have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly
and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment.
Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier
coat
a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you
want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out.
Now,
run along, you're ignorance bothers me.

Wilbur Hubbard



As I said, you need to read a better class of magazines.

Unfortunately osmosis is not the simple "dry it out" problem as some
people seem to think. Rather then a laminate saturated with water the
problem is caused by absorbed water which combined with chemicals
resident in the laminate form additional complex chemicals. Puncture
any osmosis blister and you can smell the vinegar like odor of the
chemical mix. The old idea of drying the hull failed as the resident
chemicals do not evaporate.

The quickest remedy is to wash the hull with fresh water which
dissolves the chemicals and removes them from the laminate. More
exactly a series of washdowns and drying (to remove the wash water) is
usually desirable as it removes the maximum amount of the chemicals
causing the osmosis.

Of course this is a very simple explanation of the problem and the
cure however remembering who the explanation is intended for I have
tried to keep things on a level that the reader may have some hope of
understanding.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



You people are IDIOTS. You WON'T get water inside the laminate where the
osmotic fluid resides to dilute it and was it out by washing down the
outside of the hull with fresh water repeatedly any more than you'll get
water into your intestines by taking a shower. The hull is not permeable
unless there's a pressure gradient which is how an osmotic membrane works.
If your STUPID theory worked, then every time it rained you would see water
seeping into the gelcoat of your deck and you would see osmotic fluid
leeching out afterwards. Just why the **** do you morons think the osmotic
fluid that creates the blisters doesn't also blister the topsides and deck
if your totally retarded washdown theory was actually true?

How people can read some dumb article that makes no physical sense and then
believe it wholeheartedly without at least thinking about it logically
doesn't bode well for the state of intellect of todays so-called sailor.

Wilbur Hubbard


Willie-boy, you remind me of the mother who, watching a parade, cried
out, "Look, Look everyone is out of step except my Willie".

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
 

How people can read some dumb article that makes no physical sense and then
believe it wholeheartedly without at least thinking about it logically
doesn't bode well for the state of intellect of todays so-called sailor.

Wilbur Hubbard


Y Dear Willbur:
On this one I believe that your information is outdated and
unfortuanlty your anger and arrogance has blinded you to the remote
possibility that there may be a "new-ish" re-think regarding bliser
origin and blister controll.

I agree with you my friend, hozing a hull will not cure or prevent
hull blisters. Unfortuanly your anger prevents you from an attempt to
understand Skipps tyoical rediculously long posts that lack tecnical
detail. IN this case you have to look for the key words that skip
uses. But then again Skip has done what he typicall did in he past:
half understood a concept, filled in the blanks with bull ****, nad
then proclaimed himself a demure and humble know-it-all. Actually now
that i think about it there is very little difernce between you and
skip.... oh there is one: skip is visiting places in his boat and you
are ______.

Do some more reading about the controll of hull blisers. The yard guys
in your area (the south??) may be just a bunch of variations on the
8th grade drop out coonass n dont have a clue.

bob

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
 

That is SO interesting.

I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets.

If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will.

And if not, well, sorry Bob...

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
 

CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting.

I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets.

If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will.

And if not, well, sorry Bob...


Ok, I have it on good authority that Bob is real, so the Sorry Bob
clause comes into play...



--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
 

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting.

I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets.

If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will.

And if not, well, sorry Bob...


Ok, I have it on good authority that Bob is real, so the Sorry Bob
clause comes into play...



We have loads of delusional people here who think every other nym that shows
up is a sock puppet and these very same knuckleheads attempt to tell the
thinking folks that the way to dry out an osmosis-blistered hull is to
repeatedly spray it with water while it sits on the hard.

Would you spray the outside of your house to rid it of termites? LOL! How
ludicrous can it get when people read so-called latest developments in
osmotic blister prevention and repair and believe the most absurd of methods
to rid a hull of its tendency to blister (soggy wet laminate due to
osmosis). Because something is 'new' why do these fools think it better? Is
it because they watch too much TV and can no longer think but can only
parrot? They lack reason and logic. They refuse to see the absurdity
involved in a belief that somehow, someway spraying water on the outside of
the bottom can penetrate the laminate and flush out the osmotic fluid that
pushes out the blisters.

Yes, that's the answer. Lack of any sort of higher intellectual honesty,
reason and logic.

Wilbur Hubbard

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
 

On Apr 18, 10:22*pm, CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting.

I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets.

If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will.

And if not, well, sorry Bob...



Hello CaveLamb:

Yes, I am a real person and only post here using this addy. I think
you may have been talking with Skip. I had a few good email exchanges
a few years ago. I mainly use this board to act like an ass. i find it
rather theraputic :) In a previous job i had to be incredibly
diplomatic and chose each word carfully. Here I can just say, "wilbur
you are a ****ing idiot!" and then think to myself, darn that felt
good :)

I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post
good reading.

This blister rant is rather timely for me. im going to haul out and
let my boat sit for a year hopfull all the gunk will ooze to the
surface so I can HOZE it off ;)

(wilbur are you reading this?)

Until later CaveLamb,
Bob

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
 

Bob wrote:
On Apr 18, 10:22 pm, CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting.

I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets.

If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will.

And if not, well, sorry Bob...



Hello CaveLamb:

Yes, I am a real person and only post here using this addy. I think
you may have been talking with Skip. I had a few good email exchanges
a few years ago. I mainly use this board to act like an ass. i find it
rather theraputic :) In a previous job i had to be incredibly
diplomatic and chose each word carfully. Here I can just say, "wilbur
you are a ****ing idiot!" and then think to myself, darn that felt
good :)


I can grok that. So many times I've wanted to do exactly that,
but I doubt it would help him get him back on his meds.

Yeah, that's what Skip said. :) Recall "Up in Smoke"?


I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post
good reading.


Not offended, Bob, really. I was just playing...

But I'll admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the variety of socks that do come
out of Wilbur's drawers... :)



This blister rant is rather timely for me. im going to haul out and
let my boat sit for a year hopfull all the gunk will ooze to the
surface so I can HOZE it off ;)


I'm pulling my boat this summer for a bottom job. I've no indications
of any hull blistering (crossing lots of body parts here), but I've seen
several Capri rudders with a bad case of acne.

I'm not ready to have the boat out of commission during the sailing season.



(wilbur are you reading this?)

Until later CaveLamb,
Bob

Later, Bob!


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
 

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
On Apr 18, 10:22 pm, CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting.

I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets.

If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will.

And if not, well, sorry Bob...



Hello CaveLamb:

Yes, I am a real person and only post here using this addy. I think
you may have been talking with Skip. I had a few good email exchanges
a few years ago. I mainly use this board to act like an ass. i find it
rather theraputic :) In a previous job i had to be incredibly
diplomatic and chose each word carfully. Here I can just say, "wilbur
you are a ****ing idiot!" and then think to myself, darn that felt
good :)


I can grok that. So many times I've wanted to do exactly that,
but I doubt it would help him get him back on his meds.

Yeah, that's what Skip said. :) Recall "Up in Smoke"?


I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post
good reading.


Not offended, Bob, really. I was just playing...

But I'll admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the variety of socks that do
come
out of Wilbur's drawers... :)



This blister rant is rather timely for me. im going to haul out and
let my boat sit for a year hopfull all the gunk will ooze to the
surface so I can HOZE it off ;)


I'm pulling my boat this summer for a bottom job. I've no indications
of any hull blistering (crossing lots of body parts here), but I've seen
several Capri rudders with a bad case of acne.

I'm not ready to have the boat out of commission during the sailing
season.



(wilbur are you reading this?)

Until later CaveLamb,
Bob

Later, Bob!


(what do you call a swimmer who has no arms and no legs? Bob! ROFLOL.)

Oh, and um . . . get a room, you two. LOL!

Wilbur Hubbard

Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
 

Howdy Richard:

I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post
good reading.

Not offended, Bob, really. *I was just playing...

Oh good !

But I'll admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the variety of socks that do come
out of Wilbur's drawers... :)

Agreed. I loved that Jenibur sock. Rather creative but still wrote
like WIlburs idea of a girl. A lot got lost in translation


I'm not ready to have the boat out of commission during the sailing season.