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Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
slightly batty (well, "dinghy") When we left you last, we'd just completed a booming trip from the Ragged Islands of the Bahamas to Fort Pierce, FL, averaging 8 knots over a 480-mile nonstop voyage. Now that we're settled in to the Riverside Marina boatyard life, things are happening at the usual pace of such an environment, which is to say, slowly, but surely. No sooner did we hit the ground (well, were carefully placed on boards under the keel and supported by several special jacks under the hull) than someone from my earliest days in our boat searching walks up and introduces himself. The guy who was so enraptured of Endeavour 43s that he was convinced it was the only boat I should consider has had his boat, bought before we even started our search, STILL in the yard. I'll save you the myriad unhappinesses with that model boat, but he's still working on it, over 8 years later. Granted, it's a work of art, and once he gets his new knees, he'll probably, finally, ship out. Ever helpful, he also immediately offered the use of his specialty tool (well, specialty to the average cruiser), a vacuum high powered sander, for doing our bottom job, as well as offering a variety of other helps.. Hard on his heels were three other cruisers, spaced out over a day or so, who - apparently my reputation precedes me - wanted to talk to me about our internet setup. True to form, we were online from the moment we entered the channel on our entrance to the area, albeit on various connections as we moved from in front of the USCG facility to the yard. Our supplier, www.islandtimepc.com, is out sailing as I write, but there are now three orders (that I know about, anyway!) for the same system we have waiting for his return in a few days. We also have a half-dozen other cruisers sharing our signal from our local (inside the boat) router, all of whom have come over to see us as the site name for our router suggests they do :{)) It's one of the ways we meet other cruisers, and, as those of you who have been with us for a while know, sometimes, when we move local anchorages, we have a "following" who keep near us to stay connected. We're not moving from this spot for quite a while :{)) We have a three-page list of boatyard projects which is not only slowly being whittled away but, as usual, has had additions made to it as we go... Our first project was to obtain an inexpensive car, accomplished, courtesy of Craigslist, in a couple of days. Cheaper, even if we threw it away, than renting, it will wind up going to one of my children's family, they having lost their second car a few months ago. We need that due to the long-distance traveling we're going to be doing while we're ashore, and, not insignificantly, our reprovisioning. The last reprovision we did was in August 2009; we ran out of a few things, and have surplus of a few others, but, in general, that turned out to be a pretty accurate list. That will put our water line back closer to the surface - we've been moving higher, a millimeter at a time, as we worked through our provisions. We'll likely add close to a ton of provisions, which will bring us back down to the new waterline we did in our original refit, and restore our 7' draft. So, while I would REALLY have liked to have gotten another Fiero (I used to be a Fiero nut), as it's unequalled for comfort and style for long distance travel, as it has a trunk about the size of couple of a large suitcases and is a two-seater, it would be very inappropriate to our tasks. So, we got a one-owner 2000 Mercury Marquis, with its limousine seats and cavernous trunk :{)) The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, 3-year-long refit, the hull repairs we did after our wreck on our maiden voyage, and our interest in not having to do this job any time soon after we launched the first time, we had between 6 and 10 coats of ablative (it's designed to slough off under use, exposing new paint all the time) paint to remove. Of course, the nature of that paint is to come off, naturally, so what drove us to this project was that there were places which were bare, and major areas which were down to the first, color-change (allows us to see when the outer layer is gone, but still protect against the critters which want to attach to our hull) coat. The fact that we got 4 years out of our initial work suggested we'd done it pretty well - many folks do their bottoms every year, and most are happy to achieve a 2-year cycle! None the less, much of it was still very thick. The specialty sander, offered to us by the above friend, was not making much of a dent. So, I dug out my tool I'd used in our wreck rehab and commenced grinding away. More later... Another major project was to replace the covers to our aft berth mattresses. Portia has done a number on the lightweight terry material, and, if you've been with us a long while, you'll recall that we had to redo our bow cabin's covers after an inadvertent disposal of the same stuff as is on the stern presently. We did the needed research into various suppliers of that skillset, settling on Brant, of Canvas Works, a very talented fellow who has done some very serious work with governmental boats, as well as the more typical small-boat work. We'd originally thought to use the material we replaced the bow cushions' covers with, but found a similar product in his catalog. It seems a thinner material than that in the bow, which I expect is a bonus, as we, now sleeping in the bow due to the work happening in the stern, find the cover there too stiff, depreciating the benefit of the Tempur-Pedic clones we'd designed for that cabin... However, in the course of discussions on our work in general while he was designing the changes we wanted to make in the salon seating, Brant mentioned that he also knew a fiberglass wizard. In his work on smaller boats, usually brought to his shop, this fiberglass wizard, who'd cut his teeth on Zimmer modifications to Ford Mustangs many years ago, also did work on the hulls. Brant thought he'd be very reasonable if we wanted him to take off our bottom paint. As our list is prodigious, and we want to be back in the Bahamas in late June (after the 5-7 total weeks of family time which would take us away from the boat), having someone else take on that chore would allow me to be doing other things. True to expectations, the price quoted was very reasonable, and John, who's also an ASE certified technician, and whose card reads "Expert auto body and fiberglass restoration services," set to work. I'd told him what to expect, and pointed out the various small repair areas I'd already uncovered, but it was still a surprise to him to see how much black (outer coat), blue ("reveal" coat) and red (original boat's reveal coat) paint there was to take off. However, his work in the automotive business created a perfectionist at what he does, and, while there is still much to come off, his art in removal is stunning. Eventually we'll have pictures of all of this, linked to a picasa album, and, also eventually, uploaded to the gallery in my sig line, but it suffices to say that the bottom will be very well prepped for the very minor repairs (some new, very small, blister areas, and a few corrections to some repairs done after our wreck, now 4 years ago) we've discovered. We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit so that will happen before we apply our critter-killer/vegetation-discouraging paint. Topsides, we also decided to redo our salon cushions and fabric, long a thorn in our sides, as the cushions were worn out (original, which makes them 30+ years old) and we weren't fond of the pattern on the upholstery (which was extremely high quality material and workmanship, but just not our style). Design changes we'd been thinking about for years will be incorporated, making seating vastly more comfortable, in addition to the new foam which would help in and of itself. The fabrics for both the aft cabin bedding and the salon seating are red-based, so between the bottom paint and the fabrics, we pretty much have the color scheme in the title covered :{)) The shine part is that, in our last refit, in '09, we'd heard about a varnish substitute which seemed literally too good to be true. Tuf-Shield was promoted to us by a guy who'd used it on his boat in Maine. Always exposed, the severe weather, from freezing - along with the snow and ice - to broiling in the 19-hour summer daylight there (he claimed) hadn't caused any deterioration in his finish in 10 years!! Some research revealed that the original owner of the company had died a few years earlier, but the company was once again producing the product. Viral marketing hasn't yet taken hold, and they currently have only two US distributors, but this product was selected by Bill Gates for his family compound on a lake in WA, a massive project; it's a reasonable assumption that cost was not an issue, but performance definitely was. Hmmm. Perhaps this was worth pursuing, even though it seemed more expensive than other alternatives more commonly used by sailors. Particularly, refinishing of teak is an onerous job, second only to bottom work. Those who contract it out pay VERY dearly for it due to the insane labor hours needed for a quality job, so if we could mitigate that portion of keeping our teak looking great, we were all for it. Thus encouraged, we contacted the company, which sent us a sample package of their base coat and both gloss and satin top coats, along with the special reducer used in the base. It's taken us nearly 2 years to get to where we are able to apply it, but Lydia's giving it the acid test, refinishing some extremely weathered areas we'd let go natural. Of course, it will be some years before the proof is apparent, but all we read about the nature of the product suggests it will perform as advertised. If we find it to be effective (that is, we don't have to do anything at all to it for a couple of years, and additional coats are as easy as shown in the application instructions), likely we'll carry a stock, as distributors. The tropics are a great proving ground for marine finishes... The other shine is that we're considering repainting our topsides. In boat terms, that's the part above the water, but not the part on the top of the boat, that being "deck and house"... We'd had stunning initial successes in restoring shine to the presumed-15-year-old-paint with Poli Glow, but the realities of reapplication from the water or deck made it such that we didn't keep up with it. As a result, our topsides are not at their best. However, re-enter the fiberglass wizard... As he keeps at the grind below, we've been talking about how to attack the part above. At this writing, it's a wrestling match between gel coat and AwlGrip, the "standard" in boat paints. Gel coat is more forgiving, being able to patch or touch up in the event of a scuff, or worse, but will require more labor to keep shiny after a few years. Awl Grip requires less later work, being an epoxy paint, but its hardness means that it is easy to chip, and dings can't be repaired - at least not cosmetically perfectly. Both our fiberglass wizard and the yard are quoting on that job. As that was one of the things we thought we'd do - assuming we got there; cruising is not subject to very hard dates! - in Cartagena in Columbia, a place we've heard is VERY inexpensive in very talented labor, including two major refits of a sister ship, if it's not "reasonable" (reasonable being a very relative term in the boating world!), we'll wait on that. The yard is also quoting on a modification of our arch. That, if we do it here, will be a real nuisance to accomplish, as it will have to come off, along with all the electrical attachments (wind generator, solar panels and 4 different antennas), which will have to be rethreaded and reattached, along with the new connections required when I cut the wires under the deck (better than taking out all the wiring back to the batteries!) when it's finished. However, this arch has been a thorn in my side since the day I installed it. Despite my having specified materials orders of magnitude larger than the usual arch, it's been wobbly since the day it was installed. Worse, there's a weld failure on one of the reinforcing tubes, at the top on the port side. Addtionally, due to the fabricator making a mistake he wasn't willing to rectify during construction, our solar panels are at a permanent angle, inefficient for a fixed location (some arches' design allow for tilting the panels, but the need for the swing room makes for a much smaller area which can be covered in solar panels, leading to less output other than in times you continue to adjust for the sun's angle, something we'd not wanted to bother with). I'd designed it with davits incorporated, to keep the dinghy out of our line of sight, which made for a very tall arch. So, our proposed modification would shorten it so that piece with the broken weld was no longer there. In addition, another, inner, reinforcing structure would supplement the outer one I'd designed. Along the way, we'd straighten out the solar panels' misalignment. A bit fiddly in fabrication to make the now-shortened outer reinforcing frame match up, as well as to come to the right point on the new top pieces so they'd match up with the existing leg-remainders, but it could be done. And, as we'd never found the dinghy to be anywhere near our line of sight, shortening the arch would also allow for more stiffness just by virtue of the smaller lever arm resulting. There are LOTS of small jobs, but the other major one was to resolve our two dinghies' failures. Porta-Bote came through immediately, prorating our 10 year warranty; the new bote (intentional "misspelling" due to the actual name of the product!) arrived much more promptly than we'd expected. Walker Bay continues to be a black hole of frustration, as their customer service department moves glacially, despite it being based in Mexico. None the less, they assure me that we'll have that one resolved before we set out again, as well. If we don't have a follow-up to my most recent request for a progress report in the next few days, I'll try the trick our Kiwi buddies who have since swallowed the hook (the term for cruisers who move ashore and sell their boat) used, which is to call the headquarters and ask for the CEO's email address. According to him, they REALLY don't want to see this go to a board meeting, and, since we've been working with various folks there, starting with the VP of Marketing and working our way into the Customer Service/Warranty departments, for close to a year, including the "Alice's Restaurant"-like multiple color glossies, my guess is that this might - possibly! - speed up the process :{)) There are 16 projects currently in progress (started, but not finished due to waiting time or other eventually-to-be-resolved impediments to closure), another 30 or so smaller ones not yet started, and about a dozen major ones already crossed off the list. (Lydia gets huge satisfaction when she can draw a line through one of the projects, large or small, as it means the list gets shorter!) As seen in our last, the reason we hurried here - aside from the ideal weather window at the time - was to attempt to achieve our list completion before leaving for the wedding three weeks from today. That probably won't happen, but we're very hopeful that we'll have it all finished before Lydia gets the call to go play Grandma sometime a few weeks after we've returned from the wedding. Ever hopeful, this will do for now, in hopes that it's not quite as long as the typical diatribe from me :{)) So, until next time, Stay Tuned! L8R Skip, back in the boatyard Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going slightly batty (well, "dinghy") When we left you last, we'd just completed a booming trip from the Ragged Islands of the Bahamas to Fort Pierce, FL, averaging 8 knots over a 480-mile nonstop voyage. Now that we're settled in to the Riverside Marina boatyard life, things are happening at the usual pace of such an environment, which is to say, slowly, but surely. No sooner did we hit the ground (well, were carefully placed on boards under the keel and supported by several special jacks under the hull) than someone from my earliest days in our boat searching walks up and introduces himself. The guy who was so enraptured of Endeavour 43s that he was convinced it was the only boat I should consider has had his boat, bought before we even started our search, STILL in the yard. I'll save you the myriad unhappinesses with that model boat, but he's still working on it, over 8 years later. Granted, it's a work of art, and once he gets his new knees, he'll probably, finally, ship out. Ever helpful, he also immediately offered the use of his specialty tool (well, specialty to the average cruiser), a vacuum high powered sander, for doing our bottom job, as well as offering a variety of other helps.. Hard on his heels were three other cruisers, spaced out over a day or so, who - apparently my reputation precedes me - wanted to talk to me about our internet setup. True to form, we were online from the moment we entered the channel on our entrance to the area, albeit on various connections as we moved from in front of the USCG facility to the yard. Our supplier, www.islandtimepc.com, is out sailing as I write, but there are now three orders (that I know about, anyway!) for the same system we have waiting for his return in a few days. We also have a half-dozen other cruisers sharing our signal from our local (inside the boat) router, all of whom have come over to see us as the site name for our router suggests they do :{)) It's one of the ways we meet other cruisers, and, as those of you who have been with us for a while know, sometimes, when we move local anchorages, we have a "following" who keep near us to stay connected. We're not moving from this spot for quite a while :{)) We have a three-page list of boatyard projects which is not only slowly being whittled away but, as usual, has had additions made to it as we go... Our first project was to obtain an inexpensive car, accomplished, courtesy of Craigslist, in a couple of days. Cheaper, even if we threw it away, than renting, it will wind up going to one of my children's family, they having lost their second car a few months ago. We need that due to the long-distance traveling we're going to be doing while we're ashore, and, not insignificantly, our reprovisioning. The last reprovision we did was in August 2009; we ran out of a few things, and have surplus of a few others, but, in general, that turned out to be a pretty accurate list. That will put our water line back closer to the surface - we've been moving higher, a millimeter at a time, as we worked through our provisions. We'll likely add close to a ton of provisions, which will bring us back down to the new waterline we did in our original refit, and restore our 7' draft. So, while I would REALLY have liked to have gotten another Fiero (I used to be a Fiero nut), as it's unequalled for comfort and style for long distance travel, as it has a trunk about the size of couple of a large suitcases and is a two-seater, it would be very inappropriate to our tasks. So, we got a one-owner 2000 Mercury Marquis, with its limousine seats and cavernous trunk :{)) The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, 3-year-long refit, the hull repairs we did after our wreck on our maiden voyage, and our interest in not having to do this job any time soon after we launched the first time, we had between 6 and 10 coats of ablative (it's designed to slough off under use, exposing new paint all the time) paint to remove. Of course, the nature of that paint is to come off, naturally, so what drove us to this project was that there were places which were bare, and major areas which were down to the first, color-change (allows us to see when the outer layer is gone, but still protect against the critters which want to attach to our hull) coat. The fact that we got 4 years out of our initial work suggested we'd done it pretty well - many folks do their bottoms every year, and most are happy to achieve a 2-year cycle! None the less, much of it was still very thick. The specialty sander, offered to us by the above friend, was not making much of a dent. So, I dug out my tool I'd used in our wreck rehab and commenced grinding away. More later... Another major project was to replace the covers to our aft berth mattresses. Portia has done a number on the lightweight terry material, and, if you've been with us a long while, you'll recall that we had to redo our bow cabin's covers after an inadvertent disposal of the same stuff as is on the stern presently. We did the needed research into various suppliers of that skillset, settling on Brant, of Canvas Works, a very talented fellow who has done some very serious work with governmental boats, as well as the more typical small-boat work. We'd originally thought to use the material we replaced the bow cushions' covers with, but found a similar product in his catalog. It seems a thinner material than that in the bow, which I expect is a bonus, as we, now sleeping in the bow due to the work happening in the stern, find the cover there too stiff, depreciating the benefit of the Tempur-Pedic clones we'd designed for that cabin... However, in the course of discussions on our work in general while he was designing the changes we wanted to make in the salon seating, Brant mentioned that he also knew a fiberglass wizard. In his work on smaller boats, usually brought to his shop, this fiberglass wizard, who'd cut his teeth on Zimmer modifications to Ford Mustangs many years ago, also did work on the hulls. Brant thought he'd be very reasonable if we wanted him to take off our bottom paint. As our list is prodigious, and we want to be back in the Bahamas in late June (after the 5-7 total weeks of family time which would take us away from the boat), having someone else take on that chore would allow me to be doing other things. True to expectations, the price quoted was very reasonable, and John, who's also an ASE certified technician, and whose card reads "Expert auto body and fiberglass restoration services," set to work. I'd told him what to expect, and pointed out the various small repair areas I'd already uncovered, but it was still a surprise to him to see how much black (outer coat), blue ("reveal" coat) and red (original boat's reveal coat) paint there was to take off. However, his work in the automotive business created a perfectionist at what he does, and, while there is still much to come off, his art in removal is stunning. Eventually we'll have pictures of all of this, linked to a picasa album, and, also eventually, uploaded to the gallery in my sig line, but it suffices to say that the bottom will be very well prepped for the very minor repairs (some new, very small, blister areas, and a few corrections to some repairs done after our wreck, now 4 years ago) we've discovered. We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit so that will happen before we apply our critter-killer/vegetation-discouraging paint. Topsides, we also decided to redo our salon cushions and fabric, long a thorn in our sides, as the cushions were worn out (original, which makes them 30+ years old) and we weren't fond of the pattern on the upholstery (which was extremely high quality material and workmanship, but just not our style). Design changes we'd been thinking about for years will be incorporated, making seating vastly more comfortable, in addition to the new foam which would help in and of itself. The fabrics for both the aft cabin bedding and the salon seating are red-based, so between the bottom paint and the fabrics, we pretty much have the color scheme in the title covered :{)) The shine part is that, in our last refit, in '09, we'd heard about a varnish substitute which seemed literally too good to be true. Tuf-Shield was promoted to us by a guy who'd used it on his boat in Maine. Always exposed, the severe weather, from freezing - along with the snow and ice - to broiling in the 19-hour summer daylight there (he claimed) hadn't caused any deterioration in his finish in 10 years!! Some research revealed that the original owner of the company had died a few years earlier, but the company was once again producing the product. Viral marketing hasn't yet taken hold, and they currently have only two US distributors, but this product was selected by Bill Gates for his family compound on a lake in WA, a massive project; it's a reasonable assumption that cost was not an issue, but performance definitely was. Hmmm. Perhaps this was worth pursuing, even though it seemed more expensive than other alternatives more commonly used by sailors. Particularly, refinishing of teak is an onerous job, second only to bottom work. Those who contract it out pay VERY dearly for it due to the insane labor hours needed for a quality job, so if we could mitigate that portion of keeping our teak looking great, we were all for it. Thus encouraged, we contacted the company, which sent us a sample package of their base coat and both gloss and satin top coats, along with the special reducer used in the base. It's taken us nearly 2 years to get to where we are able to apply it, but Lydia's giving it the acid test, refinishing some extremely weathered areas we'd let go natural. Of course, it will be some years before the proof is apparent, but all we read about the nature of the product suggests it will perform as advertised. If we find it to be effective (that is, we don't have to do anything at all to it for a couple of years, and additional coats are as easy as shown in the application instructions), likely we'll carry a stock, as distributors. The tropics are a great proving ground for marine finishes... The other shine is that we're considering repainting our topsides. In boat terms, that's the part above the water, but not the part on the top of the boat, that being "deck and house"... We'd had stunning initial successes in restoring shine to the presumed-15-year-old-paint with Poli Glow, but the realities of reapplication from the water or deck made it such that we didn't keep up with it. As a result, our topsides are not at their best. However, re-enter the fiberglass wizard... As he keeps at the grind below, we've been talking about how to attack the part above. At this writing, it's a wrestling match between gel coat and AwlGrip, the "standard" in boat paints. Gel coat is more forgiving, being able to patch or touch up in the event of a scuff, or worse, but will require more labor to keep shiny after a few years. Awl Grip requires less later work, being an epoxy paint, but its hardness means that it is easy to chip, and dings can't be repaired - at least not cosmetically perfectly. Both our fiberglass wizard and the yard are quoting on that job. As that was one of the things we thought we'd do - assuming we got there; cruising is not subject to very hard dates! - in Cartagena in Columbia, a place we've heard is VERY inexpensive in very talented labor, including two major refits of a sister ship, if it's not "reasonable" (reasonable being a very relative term in the boating world!), we'll wait on that. The yard is also quoting on a modification of our arch. That, if we do it here, will be a real nuisance to accomplish, as it will have to come off, along with all the electrical attachments (wind generator, solar panels and 4 different antennas), which will have to be rethreaded and reattached, along with the new connections required when I cut the wires under the deck (better than taking out all the wiring back to the batteries!) when it's finished. However, this arch has been a thorn in my side since the day I installed it. Despite my having specified materials orders of magnitude larger than the usual arch, it's been wobbly since the day it was installed. Worse, there's a weld failure on one of the reinforcing tubes, at the top on the port side. Addtionally, due to the fabricator making a mistake he wasn't willing to rectify during construction, our solar panels are at a permanent angle, inefficient for a fixed location (some arches' design allow for tilting the panels, but the need for the swing room makes for a much smaller area which can be covered in solar panels, leading to less output other than in times you continue to adjust for the sun's angle, something we'd not wanted to bother with). I'd designed it with davits incorporated, to keep the dinghy out of our line of sight, which made for a very tall arch. So, our proposed modification would shorten it so that piece with the broken weld was no longer there. In addition, another, inner, reinforcing structure would supplement the outer one I'd designed. Along the way, we'd straighten out the solar panels' misalignment. A bit fiddly in fabrication to make the now-shortened outer reinforcing frame match up, as well as to come to the right point on the new top pieces so they'd match up with the existing leg-remainders, but it could be done. And, as we'd never found the dinghy to be anywhere near our line of sight, shortening the arch would also allow for more stiffness just by virtue of the smaller lever arm resulting. There are LOTS of small jobs, but the other major one was to resolve our two dinghies' failures. Porta-Bote came through immediately, prorating our 10 year warranty; the new bote (intentional "misspelling" due to the actual name of the product!) arrived much more promptly than we'd expected. Walker Bay continues to be a black hole of frustration, as their customer service department moves glacially, despite it being based in Mexico. None the less, they assure me that we'll have that one resolved before we set out again, as well. If we don't have a follow-up to my most recent request for a progress report in the next few days, I'll try the trick our Kiwi buddies who have since swallowed the hook (the term for cruisers who move ashore and sell their boat) used, which is to call the headquarters and ask for the CEO's email address. According to him, they REALLY don't want to see this go to a board meeting, and, since we've been working with various folks there, starting with the VP of Marketing and working our way into the Customer Service/Warranty departments, for close to a year, including the "Alice's Restaurant"-like multiple color glossies, my guess is that this might - possibly! - speed up the process :{)) There are 16 projects currently in progress (started, but not finished due to waiting time or other eventually-to-be-resolved impediments to closure), another 30 or so smaller ones not yet started, and about a dozen major ones already crossed off the list. (Lydia gets huge satisfaction when she can draw a line through one of the projects, large or small, as it means the list gets shorter!) As seen in our last, the reason we hurried here - aside from the ideal weather window at the time - was to attempt to achieve our list completion before leaving for the wedding three weeks from today. That probably won't happen, but we're very hopeful that we'll have it all finished before Lydia gets the call to go play Grandma sometime a few weeks after we've returned from the wedding. Ever hopeful, this will do for now, in hopes that it's not quite as long as the typical diatribe from me :{)) So, until next time, Stay Tuned! Thanks for the update but . . . Skippy, you could spent ten years and a million dollars fixing up that floating home boat of yours and my "Cut the Mustard" would still sail circles around the "Flying Pig." LOL! Wilbur Hubbard |
Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
Hi, Wilbur,
My entire log left behind clipped... Thanks for the update but . . . Skippy, you could spent ten years and a million dollars fixing up that floating home boat of yours and my "Cut the Mustard" would still sail circles around the "Flying Pig." LOL! Wilbur Hubbard Yeah, yeah, You keep promising but never fulfill. We're just up the road... Meanwhile, the rudder is centered and repacked; next comes the indicator... The starboard side has a bunch of bulls-eyes on them where I've been going around with my little tapper, marking the TINY hollows ("blisters" - it's hard to credit these tiny things with that sobriquet), and then, so we'll know where to check for either a spot of fiberglass, or only fiberglass filler, when we fully level the hull. The port side hasn't yet been started due to a variety of factors. The galley has a new stainless steel center fixture, and a new salt lavatory. The KISS generator is direct wired. The forward head is stripped and recaulked, along with revarnished everything we took up to caulk. And, so it goes, as the list shortens... L8R Skip and crew -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage. Stamp out Sesquipedalianism |
Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 19:27:36 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: Meanwhile, the rudder is centered and repacked; next comes the indicator... The starboard side has a bunch of bulls-eyes on them where I've been going around with my little tapper, marking the TINY hollows ("blisters" - it's hard to credit these tiny things with that sobriquet), and then, so we'll know where to check for either a spot of fiberglass, or only fiberglass filler, when we fully level the hull. The port side hasn't yet been started due to a variety of factors. The galley has a new stainless steel center fixture, and a new salt lavatory. The KISS generator is direct wired. The forward head is stripped and recaulked, along with revarnished everything we took up to caulk. And, so it goes, as the list shortens... Sounds good. We're working our own list, getting ready to go north for the summer. Where are you guys heading next? |
Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... Sounds good. We're working our own list, getting ready to go north for the summer. Where are you guys heading next? Hi, Wayne, Our next destination, assuming we make it out of the yard before then, is the Abacos for hurricane season. Work continues apace; the half-drum of new chain is in the locker, welding on the bow cage is scheduled, the forward head is ready for reapplication of teak and a new toilet (holy toilet food, they're expensive!), the tiny spots on the starboard are proving to be JUST under the surface, and ready for compounding while the port side is being sanded, the new grill ready for installation in place of the old one, given to the bottom-grinder, and a half-dozen others nearing completion... After hurricane season, CURRENT expectation (all things subject to change) has us moving down toward the EC, being sure to enjoy some of the places we've jumped over our last two times in the central Bahamas. We have several cruising buddies who are under way on that adventure at the moment, as well as another who preceded them by several months, so have some very immediate info about what to look forward to, even if it isn't any further than PR this year/next winter. L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Taking a shine to the Boatyard Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011 20:00:28 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: After hurricane season, CURRENT expectation (all things subject to change) has us moving down toward the EC, being sure to enjoy some of the places we've jumped over our last two times in the central Bahamas. We have several cruising buddies who are under way on that adventure at the moment, as well as another who preceded them by several months, so have some very immediate info about what to look forward to, even if it isn't any further than PR this year/next winter. Getting to PR is really the most challenging part of cruising the Caribbean. The US and BVIs are just another short hop from PR, St Martin another day or two after that, St Barts and Antigua another couple of short hops to the south. Once you turn the corner at St Martins and head south, everything is pretty much of a beam reach. You'll love it although there are some challenges to be dealt with. |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. *We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? Bob |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Bob" wrote in message
... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) So, if we stored you in Canada for a couple of years, all those festering pustules on your body would go away and Jessica would visit? :) |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Harryk" wrote in message
... Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) So, if we stored you in Canada for a couple of years, all those festering pustules on your body would go away and Jessica would visit? :) There would be no festering pustules on my body if you'd quit trying to hump it, HarryK, you little faggot. LOL! Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
wrote in message ... Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) So, if we stored you in Canada for a couple of years, all those festering pustules on your body would go away and Jessica would visit? :) There would be no festering pustules on my body if you'd quit trying to hump it, HarryK, you little faggot. LOL! Wilbur Hubbard Sorry, but I have standards. You don't meet them. :) |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Harryk" wrote in message
... Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message ... Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) So, if we stored you in Canada for a couple of years, all those festering pustules on your body would go away and Jessica would visit? :) There would be no festering pustules on my body if you'd quit trying to hump it, HarryK, you little faggot. LOL! Wilbur Hubbard Sorry, but I have standards. You don't meet them. :) And, I'm sorry I don't have four legs, dude! Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Bob" wrote in message
... Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? Bob Hi, Bob, and circumstantially, Wilbur, The bottom history is that before we owned the boat, and perhaps before our seller did, it was peeled. I know nothing of the attempts, if any, to dry it out. However, I can tell you for sure that there was massive blistering which we addressed, at a surface level, during our refit before our launch 4 years ago. However, especially as to Wilbur, we've learned a lot as a product of a surveyor on a neighboring boat proposing something entirely counterintuitive - wash the boat with water, of all things, once it's opened up. I'll leave the research which proves why that's right to those interested, but it suffices to say that Wilbur's correct in the appearance. Most of the small repairs during our initial refit we did are stellar. A major repair, around the rudder curve in the skeg, is bone dry compared to the rest of the hull, which ranges from "OK" to "OUCH!" The solution (pardon the expression - those doing the research will see why the pun) will be to aggressively wet the raw boat, then after it dries out, pressure wash out that which has come to the surface. Rinse, repeat a couple of times a week until you're satisfied with the results, and barrier coat - to, in my case, about 20 mils at a minimum, or as much as 30, despite the "conventional wisdom" that 14-20 is sufficient. The barrier coat applied over the prior peel job hadn't done the wash/rinse/dry, I'm confident, and most of the blisters we cured were under it. Further, from taking it off, I'm also confident that the level of buildup of the prior was nowhere near the level of the gelcoat which was removed before application. Aside from the delamination (restored after salvage) in the turn of the starboard bilge, the hull was and is (repair is fine) in great shape. I'll have pix of the bottom, eventually, in a public site; for now, we aren't even looking at the pix of the work we've been taking due to wanting to get out of the yard as quickly as possible. However, there are tiny pinhole spots showing, and, as I said, there are some metered spots/areas with a relatively high level. The tiny stuff visible that I've worked on so far have been very easy to bottom out, but some of them are weeping after the inital scrubbing (I'm using a round stone in a drill, they're so small). It will be interesting to see how this wash/rinse affects those areas. I'll not finish that step until we've done the wash/rinse bits, as they may cure out themselves, leaving only a tiny surface - dry - blister to remove and fill. Thanks for asking. We're rounding 3rd in our getting out of Dodge to go to a wedding and a family reunion on Sunday, for a week. I'll be offline for that time, as I'm not taking my computer, where this NG lives, with me... L8R, y'all Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bob" wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at the drugstore. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
... On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at the drugstore. Cheers, Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment. Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability. But, if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer on the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a membrane will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment. Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier coat a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out. Now, run along, you're ignorance bothers me. Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com... Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment. Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability. But, if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer on the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a membrane will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment. Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier coat a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out. Now, run along, you're ignorance bothers me. Wilbur Hubbard Nice try, Wilbur. Do some research to see why you're wrong. I'll not be a pedant to tell you why, but you are. Humidity doesn't help - but you can wait a lifetime, and it won't be dry until you do what's needed to remove what's causing the problem, the answer to that being readily available in many sources if you'll just look. L8R Skip, not going to bother with the moisture meter again until I start with the extraction process, but agreeing with you that it has to be gotten out to make the barrier coat worth having... -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate........ Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. Wilbur Hubbard- Hide quoted text - Youre close my esteamed friend. the point skip so demurely suggested is the fluid that weeps to the surface as the hull "drys" must be washed off with soap n water. Unless that fluid is removed the "drying" process stops. Or so says a few people. bob |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Bob" wrote in message
... Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate........ Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. Wilbur Hubbard- Hide quoted text - Youre close my esteamed friend. the point skip so demurely suggested is the fluid that weeps to the surface as the hull "drys" must be washed off with soap n water. Unless that fluid is removed the "drying" process stops. Or so says a few people. Skippy is an idiot when it comes to anything that logical thinking must address. He hasn't a clue what osmosis means respecting a membrane. The fluid that pushes out the blisters increases in volume because of osmosis. Part of that fluid consists of water. That fluid is hydrophilic. If the water is removed the fluid becomes a sticky solid. Only when water is allowed to get to it does it become thin and 'watery' even though the color is usually quite dark. Evaporate all the water from this dark fluid and it becomes like tar. Then put on a barrier coat on BOTH sides of the membrane - hull and the tar-like residue will not be able to increase in volume and become thinner and it's ability via osmosis to raise blisters is thwarted. Spray ground out blisters all you want with water and it doesn't do one thing to evaporate the water from the other osmotic fluid in the layup in unblistered areas. How some people can be so myopic and unimaginative is beyond understanding. Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:13:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at the drugstore. Cheers, Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment. Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability. But, if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer on the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a membrane will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment. Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier coat a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out. Now, run along, you're ignorance bothers me. Wilbur Hubbard As I said, you need to read a better class of magazines. Unfortunately osmosis is not the simple "dry it out" problem as some people seem to think. Rather then a laminate saturated with water the problem is caused by absorbed water which combined with chemicals resident in the laminate form additional complex chemicals. Puncture any osmosis blister and you can smell the vinegar like odor of the chemical mix. The old idea of drying the hull failed as the resident chemicals do not evaporate. The quickest remedy is to wash the hull with fresh water which dissolves the chemicals and removes them from the laminate. More exactly a series of washdowns and drying (to remove the wash water) is usually desirable as it removes the maximum amount of the chemicals causing the osmosis. Of course this is a very simple explanation of the problem and the cure however remembering who the explanation is intended for I have tried to keep things on a level that the reader may have some hope of understanding. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com... Skippy is an idiot when it comes to anything that logical thinking must address. Wilbur Hubbard Ahh, Wilbur... Never one to admit a mistake, are you? He hasn't a clue what osmosis means respecting a membrane. The fluid that pushes out the blisters increases in volume because of osmosis. Part of that fluid consists of water. That fluid is hydrophilic. If the water is removed the fluid becomes a sticky solid. Only when water is allowed to get to it does it become thin and 'watery' even though the color is usually quite dark. I believe I have a firm grasp on the concept of what is happening in blister formation. Evaporate all the water from this dark fluid and it becomes like tar. Then put on a barrier coat on BOTH sides of the membrane - hull and the tar-like residue will not be able to increase in volume and become thinner and it's ability via osmosis to raise blisters is thwarted. What you, in your refusal to release the grasp you have on your position, overlook, is that if you don't get the stuff attracting the water OUT, it will still be there, hidden below the surface - thus the high reading on the moisture meter. Spray ground out blisters all you want with water and it doesn't do one thing to evaporate the water from the other osmotic fluid in the layup in unblistered areas. How some people can be so myopic and unimaginative is beyond understanding. I'm not going to be spraying blisters which have been ground out - I'm going to be spraying the entire hull. So, LET the water get to it, to get it in solution, and to the surface, where there's no obstruction (membrane to push against), and then wash it off. Rinse, repeat, until you're satisfied. I promised not to be a pedant, before, but do yourself a favor and look up Pascoe Surveyors, for just one take on the subject. There's pictures to go along with the proofs provided there. I'm going to be out of the loop for a week starting tomorrow. A much more detailed rebuttal would be my normal response, but your lignum vitae skull doesn't warrant it :{)) L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
... On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:13:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at the drugstore. Cheers, Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment. Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability. But, if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer on the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a membrane will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment. Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier coat a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out. Now, run along, you're ignorance bothers me. Wilbur Hubbard As I said, you need to read a better class of magazines. Unfortunately osmosis is not the simple "dry it out" problem as some people seem to think. Rather then a laminate saturated with water the problem is caused by absorbed water which combined with chemicals resident in the laminate form additional complex chemicals. Puncture any osmosis blister and you can smell the vinegar like odor of the chemical mix. The old idea of drying the hull failed as the resident chemicals do not evaporate. The quickest remedy is to wash the hull with fresh water which dissolves the chemicals and removes them from the laminate. More exactly a series of washdowns and drying (to remove the wash water) is usually desirable as it removes the maximum amount of the chemicals causing the osmosis. Of course this is a very simple explanation of the problem and the cure however remembering who the explanation is intended for I have tried to keep things on a level that the reader may have some hope of understanding. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) You people are IDIOTS. You WON'T get water inside the laminate where the osmotic fluid resides to dilute it and was it out by washing down the outside of the hull with fresh water repeatedly any more than you'll get water into your intestines by taking a shower. The hull is not permeable unless there's a pressure gradient which is how an osmotic membrane works. If your STUPID theory worked, then every time it rained you would see water seeping into the gelcoat of your deck and you would see osmotic fluid leeching out afterwards. Just why the **** do you morons think the osmotic fluid that creates the blisters doesn't also blister the topsides and deck if your totally retarded washdown theory was actually true? How people can read some dumb article that makes no physical sense and then believe it wholeheartedly without at least thinking about it logically doesn't bode well for the state of intellect of todays so-called sailor. Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 13:33:16 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:13:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:34:05 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message ... The next major project was to clean off the bottom of the boat so we could do a new bottom coat. Between the blister repairs we did in our original, We'll also be doing a new barrier coat - special paint which will keep water away from the fiberglass, which can aborb moisture, leading to blisters, later. We've taken most if not all of the barrier coat which was applied over a "peel job" (removing all the original gel coat, the factory means of applying a barrier to the fiberglass during manufacture) at a very long time ago in a prior owner's history, during our blister repairs in our initial refit Dear skip please describe your bottom history. im very interested in you "peel job" and "barrier coat" and blister job... and how your bottom looks now? You should be able to imagine the hapless "Flying Pig's" condition yourself if you've spent time in various boatyards. "Flying Pig's" bottom, after having been stripped (peeled) of paint as Skippy indicated he was doing, would look like a patchwork of roundish-outlined epoxy blister repairs with some new smaller blisters rearing their ugly heads in between. Also readily visible are the largish repairs using polyester resin and matt where he's run aground several times. Most notable would be on the port side rounding of the bilge where the "Pig" lie on her side pounding on a rocky shelf in the Florida Keys that he would never have grounded on if he were paying attention to navigation. Also in evidence would be way too many tired through hulls (probably about 12-18 all told) for various unnecessary systems which through hulls probably ALL need replacing at this stage due to electrolysis, oxidation and galvanic action. Some of them are probably little more than soft lumps of patina at this stage. For a blistering boat bottom, a barrier coat is but a band aid that doesn't usually work so well as moisture already in the layup will remain there under the barrier coat where it will still fester and pop up new blisters. The only effective way to get rid of the moisture in the layup is to store the boat on the hard in Canada where humidity is low and winters are brutally cold. About two years of dry storage using heat lamps in the summertime will dry out the soggy lay-up sufficiently so then and only then is an epoxy barrier coat of greater worth than dubious. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard Master of "Cut the Mustard" (no blisters-ever!) Err Willie-boy, you seem remarkably ill advised..... perhaps a subscription to one of the better boating magazines would be of advantage. Rather then just trying to read the free magazines down at the drugstore. Cheers, Um, Bruce, I am NOT ill-advised. The ONLY way to get the saturation out of the laminate which causes the blisters in the first place is to dry it thoroughly. The fastest way to dry it is a very low humidity environment. Everybody knows that the colder it is the lower the humidity the air can carry. Skippy's idea of spraying the bottom with fresh water is just plain ludicrous and ignorant. You've got to view the hull that sits in the water as a membrane. Anybody knows a membrane won't work as a membrane if it is impermeable. This is the idea behind the barrier coat - impermeability. But, if all you do is trap moisture in the laminate under an impermeable layer on the water side you still get a soggy laminate from the inside as a membrane will work from inside out just the same as from outside in. Very few boats have a dry bilge. So, the only solution is to DRY the laminate thoroughly and this can take up to two years in a low humidity, cold environment. Checking the laminate with a moisture meter is the test. Never barrier coat a laminate that isn't in compliance with a healthy dry laminate and if you want to be thorough barrier coat the dry laminate both inside and out. Now, run along, you're ignorance bothers me. Wilbur Hubbard As I said, you need to read a better class of magazines. Unfortunately osmosis is not the simple "dry it out" problem as some people seem to think. Rather then a laminate saturated with water the problem is caused by absorbed water which combined with chemicals resident in the laminate form additional complex chemicals. Puncture any osmosis blister and you can smell the vinegar like odor of the chemical mix. The old idea of drying the hull failed as the resident chemicals do not evaporate. The quickest remedy is to wash the hull with fresh water which dissolves the chemicals and removes them from the laminate. More exactly a series of washdowns and drying (to remove the wash water) is usually desirable as it removes the maximum amount of the chemicals causing the osmosis. Of course this is a very simple explanation of the problem and the cure however remembering who the explanation is intended for I have tried to keep things on a level that the reader may have some hope of understanding. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) You people are IDIOTS. You WON'T get water inside the laminate where the osmotic fluid resides to dilute it and was it out by washing down the outside of the hull with fresh water repeatedly any more than you'll get water into your intestines by taking a shower. The hull is not permeable unless there's a pressure gradient which is how an osmotic membrane works. If your STUPID theory worked, then every time it rained you would see water seeping into the gelcoat of your deck and you would see osmotic fluid leeching out afterwards. Just why the **** do you morons think the osmotic fluid that creates the blisters doesn't also blister the topsides and deck if your totally retarded washdown theory was actually true? How people can read some dumb article that makes no physical sense and then believe it wholeheartedly without at least thinking about it logically doesn't bode well for the state of intellect of todays so-called sailor. Wilbur Hubbard Willie-boy, you remind me of the mother who, watching a parade, cried out, "Look, Look everyone is out of step except my Willie". Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
How people can read some dumb article that makes no physical sense and then believe it wholeheartedly without at least thinking about it logically doesn't bode well for the state of intellect of todays so-called sailor. Wilbur Hubbard Y Dear Willbur: On this one I believe that your information is outdated and unfortuanlty your anger and arrogance has blinded you to the remote possibility that there may be a "new-ish" re-think regarding bliser origin and blister controll. I agree with you my friend, hozing a hull will not cure or prevent hull blisters. Unfortuanly your anger prevents you from an attempt to understand Skipps tyoical rediculously long posts that lack tecnical detail. IN this case you have to look for the key words that skip uses. But then again Skip has done what he typicall did in he past: half understood a concept, filled in the blanks with bull ****, nad then proclaimed himself a demure and humble know-it-all. Actually now that i think about it there is very little difernce between you and skip.... oh there is one: skip is visiting places in his boat and you are ______. Do some more reading about the controll of hull blisers. The yard guys in your area (the south??) may be just a bunch of variations on the 8th grade drop out coonass n dont have a clue. bob |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
That is SO interesting.
I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets. If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will. And if not, well, sorry Bob... |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting. I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets. If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will. And if not, well, sorry Bob... Ok, I have it on good authority that Bob is real, so the Sorry Bob clause comes into play... -- Richard Lamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26 |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m... CaveLamb wrote: That is SO interesting. I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets. If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will. And if not, well, sorry Bob... Ok, I have it on good authority that Bob is real, so the Sorry Bob clause comes into play... We have loads of delusional people here who think every other nym that shows up is a sock puppet and these very same knuckleheads attempt to tell the thinking folks that the way to dry out an osmosis-blistered hull is to repeatedly spray it with water while it sits on the hard. Would you spray the outside of your house to rid it of termites? LOL! How ludicrous can it get when people read so-called latest developments in osmotic blister prevention and repair and believe the most absurd of methods to rid a hull of its tendency to blister (soggy wet laminate due to osmosis). Because something is 'new' why do these fools think it better? Is it because they watch too much TV and can no longer think but can only parrot? They lack reason and logic. They refuse to see the absurdity involved in a belief that somehow, someway spraying water on the outside of the bottom can penetrate the laminate and flush out the osmotic fluid that pushes out the blisters. Yes, that's the answer. Lack of any sort of higher intellectual honesty, reason and logic. Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
On Apr 18, 10:22*pm, CaveLamb wrote:
That is SO interesting. I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets. If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will. And if not, well, sorry Bob... Hello CaveLamb: Yes, I am a real person and only post here using this addy. I think you may have been talking with Skip. I had a few good email exchanges a few years ago. I mainly use this board to act like an ass. i find it rather theraputic :) In a previous job i had to be incredibly diplomatic and chose each word carfully. Here I can just say, "wilbur you are a ****ing idiot!" and then think to myself, darn that felt good :) I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post good reading. This blister rant is rather timely for me. im going to haul out and let my boat sit for a year hopfull all the gunk will ooze to the surface so I can HOZE it off ;) (wilbur are you reading this?) Until later CaveLamb, Bob |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
Bob wrote:
On Apr 18, 10:22 pm, CaveLamb wrote: That is SO interesting. I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets. If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will. And if not, well, sorry Bob... Hello CaveLamb: Yes, I am a real person and only post here using this addy. I think you may have been talking with Skip. I had a few good email exchanges a few years ago. I mainly use this board to act like an ass. i find it rather theraputic :) In a previous job i had to be incredibly diplomatic and chose each word carfully. Here I can just say, "wilbur you are a ****ing idiot!" and then think to myself, darn that felt good :) I can grok that. So many times I've wanted to do exactly that, but I doubt it would help him get him back on his meds. Yeah, that's what Skip said. :) Recall "Up in Smoke"? I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post good reading. Not offended, Bob, really. I was just playing... But I'll admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the variety of socks that do come out of Wilbur's drawers... :) This blister rant is rather timely for me. im going to haul out and let my boat sit for a year hopfull all the gunk will ooze to the surface so I can HOZE it off ;) I'm pulling my boat this summer for a bottom job. I've no indications of any hull blistering (crossing lots of body parts here), but I've seen several Capri rudders with a bad case of acne. I'm not ready to have the boat out of commission during the sailing season. (wilbur are you reading this?) Until later CaveLamb, Bob Later, Bob! -- Richard Lamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26 |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOM NOW SKIP?
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
... Bob wrote: On Apr 18, 10:22 pm, CaveLamb wrote: That is SO interesting. I've always assumed Bob was another of Wilbur's sock puppets. If so, it's a charming way to admit when you are wrong, Will. And if not, well, sorry Bob... Hello CaveLamb: Yes, I am a real person and only post here using this addy. I think you may have been talking with Skip. I had a few good email exchanges a few years ago. I mainly use this board to act like an ass. i find it rather theraputic :) In a previous job i had to be incredibly diplomatic and chose each word carfully. Here I can just say, "wilbur you are a ****ing idiot!" and then think to myself, darn that felt good :) I can grok that. So many times I've wanted to do exactly that, but I doubt it would help him get him back on his meds. Yeah, that's what Skip said. :) Recall "Up in Smoke"? I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post good reading. Not offended, Bob, really. I was just playing... But I'll admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the variety of socks that do come out of Wilbur's drawers... :) This blister rant is rather timely for me. im going to haul out and let my boat sit for a year hopfull all the gunk will ooze to the surface so I can HOZE it off ;) I'm pulling my boat this summer for a bottom job. I've no indications of any hull blistering (crossing lots of body parts here), but I've seen several Capri rudders with a bad case of acne. I'm not ready to have the boat out of commission during the sailing season. (wilbur are you reading this?) Until later CaveLamb, Bob Later, Bob! (what do you call a swimmer who has no arms and no legs? Bob! ROFLOL.) Oh, and um . . . get a room, you two. LOL! Wilbur Hubbard |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
Howdy Richard:
I apologize if I offended you in the past. I typically find your post good reading. Not offended, Bob, really. *I was just playing... Oh good ! But I'll admit to being a bit overwhelmed by the variety of socks that do come out of Wilbur's drawers... :) Agreed. I loved that Jenibur sock. Rather creative but still wrote like WIlburs idea of a girl. A lot got lost in translation I'm not ready to have the boat out of commission during the sailing season. |
Blues (and blacks and reds, too!) while going... HOWS YOUR BOTTOMNOW SKIP?
check email, Bob...
Richard |
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