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mixing gas and oil questions
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can
they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted |
mixing gas and oil questions
ted@theted. wrote in message
... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted It's always wise to follow manufacturers recommendations. Deviating from them could be trouble. Wilbur Hubbard |
mixing gas and oil questions
Ted,
Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I know this is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure occurs. Steve ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
... Ted, Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I know this is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure occurs. Steve Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation. The question came up with my newer engine which is designed to run on 100-1 mix. They told me it will run just fine on the same stuff as my older engine, a 50-1 mix. They also cautioned me that the least "too-little" mix , such as missing by a bit when filling from a not-empty supply and having to guess at the right amount, could turn it into an anchor. Failure to use enough deprives the engine of its lubrication, and things seize up. Further, my manuals for both engines show to use double the oil in severe use conditions. I.e., in the newer one, 50-1, in the older one, 25-1. More oil, at least as inferred from the manuals, assures that won't happen, even if you overdo it. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me that 16% more than specified as ADEQUATE should not be a problem. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
mixing gas and oil questions
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING Interesting. *The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation....... Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly. In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla bla evenrude bla..." Further, my manuals for both engines show ........ Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem. Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please dont use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious effects on my comprehension. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit the jetty. Robert RExroth (Dell Tech Support-SLC, UT) ADA |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Bob" wrote in message
... WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation....... Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly. In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla bla evenrude bla..." Further, my manuals for both engines show ........ Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem. Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please dont use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious effects on my comprehension. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip :: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion :: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please :: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit the :: jetty. I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to cylinder/piston surfaces. It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the temperature of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage from heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works (piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust port will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut that one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the time. Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you listed. Wilbur Hubbard (worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years) |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Oct 25, 12:02*pm, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's self with a oil pump to the carbs. But I mix the same ratio for all my small engines without any problems. |
mixing gas and oil questions
Lots of trimming
Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip There are 2 parameters to consider these are the flash point - the min temp at which it will ignite with a spark or flame etc. This is typically -45F for petrol (gasoline) and +143F for diesel. Hence as a boat fuel, diesel is a lot 'safer' than gasoline. However there is also the autoignition temperature - this is the min temp where the fuel will simply ignite without a spark or flame. For Petrol this is 495F and for diesel 410F a fair bit cooler. So too much oil could lower the auto ignition temp to a point where pre-ignition happens - not good for your engine. However I have no idea how much you need to add to cause this kind of problem. |
mixing gas and oil questions
ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I follow the manual recommendations. i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic measuring device. It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas. |
mixing gas and oil questions
You can do a test yourself. Place a drop of gasoline down the barrel of a daisy BB gun and fire it....no effect. Use a drop of oil
and you will hear the detonation when the lube oil detonates. Further, try running a diesel engine on high octane gasoline and see what doesn't happen. You may be able to move to 50:1 from 100:1.....maybe, but modern two stroke engines use a lot more compression than the older ones and when using too much oil in the mix, you will melt a piston. Steve "Flying Pig" wrote in message ... "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Ted, Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I know this is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure occurs. Steve Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation. The question came up with my newer engine which is designed to run on 100-1 mix. They told me it will run just fine on the same stuff as my older engine, a 50-1 mix. They also cautioned me that the least "too-little" mix , such as missing by a bit when filling from a not-empty supply and having to guess at the right amount, could turn it into an anchor. Failure to use enough deprives the engine of its lubrication, and things seize up. Further, my manuals for both engines show to use double the oil in severe use conditions. I.e., in the newer one, 50-1, in the older one, 25-1. More oil, at least as inferred from the manuals, assures that won't happen, even if you overdo it. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me that 16% more than specified as ADEQUATE should not be a problem. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
mixing gas and oil questions
Engine repair shops love customers like you....you keep them in business.
Steve "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ... On Oct 25, 12:02 pm, ted@theted. wrote: i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's self with a oil pump to the carbs. But I mix the same ratio for all my small engines without any problems. |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Ron" wrote in message
... On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:23:46 -0400, I am Tosk wrote: In article 29b625b4-9ffe-4736-b512-dff137d6aa81 , says... haven't figured out what it was, but I shipped it: Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion concept understanding. Yeah, I gathered he isn't a internal combustion engineer so what's your point? I worked on cars for a long time and really never thought about ping as it relates to two stroke fuel/oil mix, I just mix it right;) and with the octane we run, ping is not really an issue.. As to why the high mixture and why it would cause ping, I have some ideas, but really, I don't think it's all that important as long as I have a measuring cup... That being said in my lawn equipment and boats I run regular fuel with Spectro32:1 which is designed to run at that mixture in most two stroke engines.. It's universal. No it isn't! Water cooled outboards run at much lower temps than air cooled lawn equipment. The requirements for the oil are quite different. And 32:1 will cause an engine that is designed for 50:1 to run lean. Not good! It's apparent you don't understand what the ration you used means. 32:1 means 32 parts gasoline to one part oil 50:1 means 50 parts gasoline to one part oil Therefore, you are wrong to say 32:1 will burn leaner than 50:1. Fifty to one burns leaner by virtue of the fact that there is more gasoline to burn and less oil. A richer oil/gasoline ratio (more oil to gas as in 32:1) will cause a two-stroke engine to run richer - not leaner. Oil also burns (most of it) but oil burns less easily and more slowly (under the compression ratios present in gasoline engines) because it's less combustible than gasoline. It takes a high compression, diesel engine to burn oil efficiently. It ain't gonna happen efficiently in a gasoline engine because of the low compression ratios Wilbur Hubbard |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote: On Oct 25, 12:02*pm, ted@theted. wrote: i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's self with a oil pump to the carbs. the guy who was working on it suggested that i have the pump mix system removed for a couple of reasons. one was because it was smoking badly meaning it was mixing too much oil, and the other was because somewhere in that system it was leaking oil into the hull. he said it could just as easily mix too little as mix too much and that would ruin the engine, so i figured after getting lucky and having a second chance it was best to have the messy threat removed so it won't ever be an issue again. But I mix the same ratio for all my small engines without any problems. what ratio? |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in message ... Ted, Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. I know this is counter intuitive, hence the number of times this failure occurs. Steve Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation. The question came up with my newer engine which is designed to run on 100-1 mix. They told me it will run just fine on the same stuff as my older engine, a 50-1 mix. They also cautioned me that the least "too-little" mix , such as missing by a bit when filling from a not-empty supply and having to guess at the right amount, could turn it into an anchor. Failure to use enough deprives the engine of its lubrication, and things seize up. when the evinrude was re-built the mechanic told me to mix 50-1 instead of the regular 25-1 until it got broken in. when i asked if it would hurt to keep mixing it that way all the time he said no. Further, my manuals for both engines show to use double the oil in severe use conditions. I.e., in the newer one, 50-1, in the older one, 25-1. More oil, at least as inferred from the manuals, assures that won't happen, even if you overdo it. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me that 16% more than specified as ADEQUATE should not be a problem. that mechanic and the jetski mechanic both said too much is okay but too little will ruin the engine because what you're doing is running it low on oil, which certainly makes sense. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? for real. i've been running the evinrude about 50-1 for about a year and it hasn't blown up or even overheated. one person told me that mixing too much oil makes it have a problem with wanting to quit when you're trying to start it...it will fire up for a few seconds and then die which it is doing. but he may have just said that because he knew i was mixing it heavy on oil. he told me that at a time when we were having the problem. it usually only does it once or twice though, and then runs fine. |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:09 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote: Ted, Adding lube oil to gasoline lowers the flash point of the fuel increasing the chance of detonation. Oil in the fuel is necessary for these type of engines, but NEVER use more than the manufacturer's recommendation. Failure to follow this simple direction could melt the pistons, the heads and effectively ruin the engine and I have seen this hundreds of times. as yet i find it hard to believe that you've seen it happen at all, much less hundreds of times. how much more oil are you talking about? I know this is counter intuitive, to say the least. hence the number of times this failure occurs. can you provide any reason to believe that happens a lot, other than your own unlikely sounding claim? i've never heard of it happening at all, and if it were as common as you say it is it seems it's one of those things mechanics would warn people about. ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted |
mixing gas and oil questions
ted@theted. wrote in message
... On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote: On Oct 25, 12:02 pm, ted@theted. wrote: i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's self with a oil pump to the carbs. the guy who was working on it suggested that i have the pump mix system removed for a couple of reasons. one was because it was smoking badly meaning it was mixing too much oil, and the other was because somewhere in that system it was leaking oil into the hull. he said it could just as easily mix too little as mix too much and that would ruin the engine, so i figured after getting lucky and having a second chance it was best to have the messy threat removed so it won't ever be an issue again. But I mix the same ratio for all my small engines without any problems. what ratio? Idiot! Moron. Fool. There could well be other oil feed lines than the ones to the carbs that you see. That might be where the oil leak is coming from. If this were the case and the oil feed was going to lubricate the crankshaft main bearings, for example, and there were oil seals in place to separate the bearings from the crankcase to better facilitate secondary compression and transfer of the fuel/oil mix, the main bearings, having no source of lubrication, (the fuel/oil mixture couldn't get to the bearings because of the seals) would quickly overheat and fail. your mechanic is not to be trusted. He's stupid, ignorant or both. Wilbur Hubbard |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Oct 25, 2:35*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in l-september.org... In article 29b625b4-9ffe-4736-b512-dff137d6aa81 @l8g2000yql.googlegroups.com, says... haven't figured out what it was, but I shipped it: Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? * L8R * Skip Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion concept understanding. Yeah, I gathered he isn't a internal combustion engineer so what's your point? I worked on cars for a long time and really never thought about ping as it relates to two stroke fuel/oil mix, I just mix it right;) and with the octane we run, ping is not really an issue.. As to why the high mixture and why it would cause ping, I have some ideas, but really, I don't think it's all that important as long as I have a measuring cup.... That being said in my lawn equipment and boats I run regular fuel with Spectro32:1 which is designed to run at that mixture in most two stroke engines.. It's universal. Will those here more knowledgable please inlighten SKip. Why, all he really needs is an answer to his question, he isn't asking for a course;)? This is a discussion group, isn't it? So why not discuss? The OP might learn something. Wilbur Hubbard Why does that man call you a sexual predator? |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Oct 25, 11:02*am, ted@theted. wrote:
i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted Mix according to the engine manufacture's recommendations and use a good quality 2-cycle oil that is rated for 'water cooled' engines. They are designed for the heat factors which are different from weed eaters and chainsaws. |
mixing gas and oil questions
My 2-cents.
First, a 50-1 mix is about 2% oil; a 25-1 mix about 4%. Yes, twice as much oil but still very little of it. Unlike Steve, I've seen many (not his hundreds) of 2-cycle engines seize up from too little oil, but never from too much. Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2 qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke system! BTW, the ultralight engine manufacturers recommended 25-1 for the first 25 hours for break in. Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built and flew a gyrocopter. It used a WW II era 90HP, 4 cylinder engine. The manufacgturer's recommended mix was 25 parts 130 Octane leaded aviation gas to 1 part 40 wt. aviation (mineral) oil. The 70's did away with the two aviation grades so the choice was 100 LL ( 100 Octane low lead ) or premium auto gas. Most everyone also used 2-cycle oil and mixed it 50-1 because it's mainly the oil used that determines the ratio. The 50-1 mix became the standard shortly after the so-called "50-1 oil" came out and became readily available, I think in the 50's. A few folks with gryos and ultralights tried the very expensive "100-1 oil" and shortly faced engine rebuilds. BTW, the gyro engine was high compression. I've been racking my brain trying to remember, but am coming up blank. Anyway, that's why the 130 Octane gas. Rick |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Rick Morel" wrote in message ... My 2-cents. snip............. .. Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2 qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke system! snip........... Rick Got that beat. My 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus uses 10:1 ratio. If there's a strong tail wind, I almost choke to death, so I constantly gybe to keep the blue exhaust smoke on one side or the other. BTW I don't use that engine much anymore. |
mixing gas and oil questions
On 10/25/10 8:41 PM, YukonBound wrote:
"Rick Morel" wrote in message ... My 2-cents. snip............. . Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2 qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke system! snip........... Rick Got that beat. My 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus uses 10:1 ratio. If there's a strong tail wind, I almost choke to death, so I constantly gybe to keep the blue exhaust smoke on one side or the other. BTW I don't use that engine much anymore. In 1954, I recall my dad letting me have a 7.5 hp Evinrude Fleetwin on a 12' Skimmar brand skiff. The boat actually planed. Half pint of oil to a gallon of gas. |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:23 -0500, Rick Morel
wrote: Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built and flew a gyrocopter. It used a WW II era 90HP, 4 cylinder engine. The manufacgturer's recommended mix was 25 parts 130 Octane leaded aviation gas to 1 part 40 wt. aviation (mineral) oil. Interesting! Do you happen to know Ken Brock? He was one of the gyrocopter pioneers and flew one across country for the publicity. He and I appeared together on a television show called "To Tell The Truth" back in the early 70s. I was one of his "imposters" and Ken of course was the real thing. |
mixing gas and oil questions
Wilbur,
You have it almost correct, but what actually happens is that in the hottest point in the combustion chamber, the fuel/oil mix diesels starting a flame front, but before that flame propagates across the piston surface, the spark sets off another flame front. When the two fronts collide there is a very high temperature explosion that causes the aluminum to actually melt. This can be heard as a knock, but it is very difficult to hear in an outboard engine. At low throttle, this can be tolerated for a few seconds, but at high throttle, it is almost instantaneously terminal, as much of the head and piston blows out the exhaust port as molten aluminum. The entire point of this thread is to point out that lube oil will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel charge. Catastrophic damage, on the other hand is a product of chamber temperature, fuel/air ratio, as well as the fuel mix tolerance to auto ignition. If the engine is of the low performance variety, fuel/oil mix tolerance will be greater, but in a high performance configuration much more attention must be given to the fuel mix. Historically, the migration from the recommendation of 25:1 to 50:1 occurred with the change from plain bearings to roller/needle bearings. Oil injectors allow even more reduction, because lubrication can be assured at low throttle settings where lube starvation always occurs with premix fuel. This lube starvation was the primary driver for fat fuel/oil mixes. Steve "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Bob" wrote in message ... WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation....... Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly. In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla bla evenrude bla..." Further, my manuals for both engines show ........ Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem. Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please dont use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious effects on my comprehension. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip :: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion :: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please :: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit the :: jetty. I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to cylinder/piston surfaces. It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the temperature of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage from heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works (piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust port will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut that one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the time. Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you listed. Wilbur Hubbard (worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years) |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:30:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:23 -0500, Rick Morel wrote: Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built and flew a gyrocopter.... Interesting! Do you happen to know Ken Brock? He was one of the gyrocopter pioneers and flew one across country for the publicity. He and I appeared together on a television show called "To Tell The Truth" back in the early 70s. I was one of his "imposters" and Ken of course was the real thing. No, but I did meet him. A great guy. About all the gyrocopters used his horizontal stabilizer and control system. Rick |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... ted@theted. wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote: On Oct 25, 12:02 pm, ted@theted. wrote: i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I only have smaller 2 strokes and one jetski. The jetski mixes it's self with a oil pump to the carbs. the guy who was working on it suggested that i have the pump mix system removed for a couple of reasons. one was because it was smoking badly meaning it was mixing too much oil, and the other was because somewhere in that system it was leaking oil into the hull. he said it could just as easily mix too little as mix too much and that would ruin the engine, so i figured after getting lucky and having a second chance it was best to have the messy threat removed so it won't ever be an issue again. But I mix the same ratio for all my small engines without any problems. what ratio? Idiot! Moron. Fool. There could well be other oil feed lines than the ones to the carbs that you see. That might be where the oil leak is coming from. If this were the case and the oil feed was going to lubricate the crankshaft main bearings, for example, and there were oil seals in place to separate the bearings from the crankcase to better facilitate secondary compression and transfer of the fuel/oil mix, the main bearings, having no source of lubrication, (the fuel/oil mixture couldn't get to the bearings because of the seals) would quickly overheat and fail. your mechanic is not to be trusted. He's stupid, ignorant or both. Wilbur Hubbard Sounds like Wilber is off his meds again. Just let him ramble. |
mixing gas and oil questions
"YukonBound" wrote in message ... ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I follow the manual recommendations. i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic measuring device. It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas. You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don? |
mixing gas and oil questions
"YukonBound" wrote in message ... "Rick Morel" wrote in message ... My 2-cents. snip............. . Heck, I remember one guy that used 12.5-1 (2 qts. in 6 gallons) in his ultralight. Looked like he had a smoke system! snip........... Rick Got that beat. My 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus uses 10:1 ratio. If there's a strong tail wind, I almost choke to death, so I constantly gybe to keep the blue exhaust smoke on one side or the other. BTW I don't use that engine much anymore. Helps to keep the mosquitoes away I'll bet? |
mixing gas and oil questions
"MMC" wrote in message g.com... "YukonBound" wrote in message ... ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I follow the manual recommendations. i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic measuring device. It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas. You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don? Why not... strap a couple of pontoons on the side and engage the marine drive.............................. |
mixing gas and oil questions
On 10/26/10 10:19 AM, YukonBound wrote:
"MMC" wrote in message g.com... "YukonBound" wrote in message ... ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I follow the manual recommendations. i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic measuring device. It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas. You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don? Why not... strap a couple of pontoons on the side and engage the marine drive.............................. A VespaSki, to be seen in the next Bond move. Don Bond driving, Scarlett Johannsen in the passenger seat. |
mixing gas and oil questions
Wilber and all,
The stoichiometric A/F ratio for gasoline and diesel is almost the same by mass. 14.7: vs. 14.5:1. However, the auto ignition temperature for diesel is lower than gasoline and lube oil auto ignition temperature is lower than diesel, hence the potential risk of detonation. Also, the released heat by combustion in BTU/gram is almost the same across all hydrocarbon fuels. Look, I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself on this subject. I thought I would just slip this oil thing into the group because it isn't common knowledge. Guess what....it isn't common knowledge. For all you doubters look it up yourself, Wiki is your friend. Steve "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Ron" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:23:46 -0400, I am Tosk wrote: In article 29b625b4-9ffe-4736-b512-dff137d6aa81 , says... haven't figured out what it was, but I shipped it: Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion concept understanding. Yeah, I gathered he isn't a internal combustion engineer so what's your point? I worked on cars for a long time and really never thought about ping as it relates to two stroke fuel/oil mix, I just mix it right;) and with the octane we run, ping is not really an issue.. As to why the high mixture and why it would cause ping, I have some ideas, but really, I don't think it's all that important as long as I have a measuring cup... That being said in my lawn equipment and boats I run regular fuel with Spectro32:1 which is designed to run at that mixture in most two stroke engines.. It's universal. No it isn't! Water cooled outboards run at much lower temps than air cooled lawn equipment. The requirements for the oil are quite different. And 32:1 will cause an engine that is designed for 50:1 to run lean. Not good! It's apparent you don't understand what the ration you used means. 32:1 means 32 parts gasoline to one part oil 50:1 means 50 parts gasoline to one part oil Therefore, you are wrong to say 32:1 will burn leaner than 50:1. Fifty to one burns leaner by virtue of the fact that there is more gasoline to burn and less oil. A richer oil/gasoline ratio (more oil to gas as in 32:1) will cause a two-stroke engine to run richer - not leaner. Oil also burns (most of it) but oil burns less easily and more slowly (under the compression ratios present in gasoline engines) because it's less combustible than gasoline. It takes a high compression, diesel engine to burn oil efficiently. It ain't gonna happen efficiently in a gasoline engine because of the low compression ratios Wilbur Hubbard |
mixing gas and oil questions
"I am Tosk" wrote in message
... In article , says... Wilbur, You have it almost correct, but what actually happens is that in the hottest point in the combustion chamber, the fuel/oil mix diesels starting a flame front, but before that flame propagates across the piston surface, the spark sets off another flame front. When the two fronts collide there is a very high temperature explosion that causes the aluminum to actually melt. This can be heard as a knock, but it is very difficult to hear in an outboard engine. At low throttle, this can be tolerated for a few seconds, but at high throttle, it is almost instantaneously terminal, as much of the head and piston blows out the exhaust port as molten aluminum. The entire point of this thread is to point out that lube oil will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel charge. Catastrophic damage, on the other hand is a product of chamber temperature, fuel/air ratio, as well as the fuel mix tolerance to auto ignition. If the engine is of the low performance variety, fuel/oil mix tolerance will be greater, but in a high performance configuration much more attention must be given to the fuel mix. Historically, the migration from the recommendation of 25:1 to 50:1 occurred with the change from plain bearings to roller/needle bearings. Oil injectors allow even more reduction, because lubrication can be assured at low throttle settings where lube starvation always occurs with premix fuel. This lube starvation was the primary driver for fat fuel/oil mixes. Steve "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Bob" wrote in message ... WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation....... Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly. In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla bla evenrude bla..." Further, my manuals for both engines show ........ Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem. Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please dont use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious effects on my comprehension. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip :: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion :: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please :: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit the :: jetty. I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to cylinder/piston surfaces. It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the temperature of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage from heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works (piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust port will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut that one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the time. Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you listed. Wilbur Hubbard (worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years) What motorcycle company? This year my daughter is on an '09 RMZ 250 that was Tony Lorousso's Nationals bike last year... Bettencourts, Pro Circuit, Factory Connection... Lowered with a Pro Circuit link, PC Pipe, and a couple of extra toys;) Last year she took third place for the season in the womens 125/250 class, working her ass off on a KX100 all season. If you still have friends over there, we could sure use some help racing next season;) Got a lot of room on the side of the "white trailer"! -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! Yes, it was U.S. Suzuki Motor Corp. I think they've renamed it since. I used to race motocross myself on the old TM 125 and TM 400 and then on a Maico 400. Held AMA national number 42 at one time. But, this was years and years ago back when Hans Maisch, Heikki Mikkola and the great Joel Robert were in their prime and I've lost contact with any and all.They're probably all retired by now anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%ABl_Robert Your daughter sounds good. I wish you all well. -- Gregory Hall |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Ron" wrote in message
... On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:20:30 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in message ... In article , says... Wilbur, You have it almost correct, but what actually happens is that in the hottest point in the combustion chamber, the fuel/oil mix diesels starting a flame front, but before that flame propagates across the piston surface, the spark sets off another flame front. When the two fronts collide there is a very high temperature explosion that causes the aluminum to actually melt. This can be heard as a knock, but it is very difficult to hear in an outboard engine. At low throttle, this can be tolerated for a few seconds, but at high throttle, it is almost instantaneously terminal, as much of the head and piston blows out the exhaust port as molten aluminum. The entire point of this thread is to point out that lube oil will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel charge. Catastrophic damage, on the other hand is a product of chamber temperature, fuel/air ratio, as well as the fuel mix tolerance to auto ignition. If the engine is of the low performance variety, fuel/oil mix tolerance will be greater, but in a high performance configuration much more attention must be given to the fuel mix. Historically, the migration from the recommendation of 25:1 to 50:1 occurred with the change from plain bearings to roller/needle bearings. Oil injectors allow even more reduction, because lubrication can be assured at low throttle settings where lube starvation always occurs with premix fuel. This lube starvation was the primary driver for fat fuel/oil mixes. Steve "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Bob" wrote in message ... WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation....... Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly. In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla bla evenrude bla..." Further, my manuals for both engines show ........ Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem. Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please dont use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious effects on my comprehension. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip :: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion :: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please :: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit the :: jetty. I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to cylinder/piston surfaces. It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the temperature of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage from heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works (piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust port will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut that one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the time. Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you listed. Wilbur Hubbard (worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years) What motorcycle company? This year my daughter is on an '09 RMZ 250 that was Tony Lorousso's Nationals bike last year... Bettencourts, Pro Circuit, Factory Connection... Lowered with a Pro Circuit link, PC Pipe, and a couple of extra toys;) Last year she took third place for the season in the womens 125/250 class, working her ass off on a KX100 all season. If you still have friends over there, we could sure use some help racing next season;) Got a lot of room on the side of the "white trailer"! -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! Yes, it was U.S. Suzuki Motor Corp. I think they've renamed it since. I used to race motocross myself on the old TM 125 and TM 400 and then on a Maico 400. Held AMA national number 42 at one time. But, this was years and years ago back when Hans Maisch, Heikki Mikkola and the great Joel Robert were in their prime and I've lost contact with any and all.They're probably all retired by now anyway. Bwhahahahaha! Priceless! What's priceles? Everybody with half a brain knows that Wilbur and Greg are one and the same. Just different names for different NSPs. The Wilbur account seems to be temporarily on the blink today. -- Gregory Hall aka Wilbur Hubbard |
mixing gas and oil questions
Rick Morel wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:30:42 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:48:23 -0500, Rick Morel wrote: Not water cooled, but a real world example. About 20 years ago I built and flew a gyrocopter.... Interesting! Do you happen to know Ken Brock? He was one of the gyrocopter pioneers and flew one across country for the publicity. He and I appeared together on a television show called "To Tell The Truth" back in the early 70s. I was one of his "imposters" and Ken of course was the real thing. No, but I did meet him. A great guy. About all the gyrocopters used his horizontal stabilizer and control system. Rick I thought he flew a Bensen. But it turned out his mods were sufficient to make it a new design. copy: The Ken Brock story as it relates to sport gyroplanes begins around 1970 with a Bensen gyrocopter he had built and subsequently modified. These modifications led directly to a design that Igor Bensen told Brock was a new design and could no longer be considered a Bensen Gyrocopter. The popularity and innovations of Brock’s design lead to the formation of Ken Brock Manufacturing with the intent to market and sell Ken Brock gyroplanes. Brock was one of the first to use the term gyroplane, a term the FAA would later use to define the aircraft type in general. Ken Brock gyroplanes would carry model designations of KB; other models include the KB2 and KB3. The design, as mentioned before, was based off the Bensen Gyro-Copter and from this basic design Ken created an aircraft that would be easier to handle, and fly. While it was not much of a real stabilizer the KB gyroplanes were among the first to add it. Initially installed as a rock guard to protect the propeller on Bensen and other designs. Ken's gyroplanes were among one of the first to start the debate and research of the addition of horizontal stabilzers and would lead to future gyroplane designs incorporating such devices. Brock and Brock Manufacturing would always make safety a top priority with any gyroplane it designed and through the history of the company many changes and modifications would follow the design such as in better rotor designs and manufacturing processes to build them. -- Richard Lamb email me: web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Ron" wrote in message
... On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:27:26 -0400, I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... "I am Tosk" wrote in message ... In article , says... Wilbur, You have it almost correct, but what actually happens is that in the hottest point in the combustion chamber, the fuel/oil mix diesels starting a flame front, but before that flame propagates across the piston surface, the spark sets off another flame front. When the two fronts collide there is a very high temperature explosion that causes the aluminum to actually melt. This can be heard as a knock, but it is very difficult to hear in an outboard engine. At low throttle, this can be tolerated for a few seconds, but at high throttle, it is almost instantaneously terminal, as much of the head and piston blows out the exhaust port as molten aluminum. The entire point of this thread is to point out that lube oil will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel charge. Catastrophic damage, on the other hand is a product of chamber temperature, fuel/air ratio, as well as the fuel mix tolerance to auto ignition. If the engine is of the low performance variety, fuel/oil mix tolerance will be greater, but in a high performance configuration much more attention must be given to the fuel mix. Historically, the migration from the recommendation of 25:1 to 50:1 occurred with the change from plain bearings to roller/needle bearings. Oil injectors allow even more reduction, because lubrication can be assured at low throttle settings where lube starvation always occurs with premix fuel. This lube starvation was the primary driver for fat fuel/oil mixes. Steve "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Bob" wrote in message ... WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer, gave me the exact opposite recommendation....... Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly. In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla bla evenrude bla..." Further, my manuals for both engines show ........ Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader. I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious effects, but my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem. Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please dont use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious effects on my comprehension. Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash than gasoline. How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile? L8R Skip :: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and combustion :: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please :: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit the :: jetty. I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to cylinder/piston surfaces. It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the temperature of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage from heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works (piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust port will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut that one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the time. Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you listed. Wilbur Hubbard (worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years) What motorcycle company? This year my daughter is on an '09 RMZ 250 that was Tony Lorousso's Nationals bike last year... Bettencourts, Pro Circuit, Factory Connection... Lowered with a Pro Circuit link, PC Pipe, and a couple of extra toys;) Last year she took third place for the season in the womens 125/250 class, working her ass off on a KX100 all season. If you still have friends over there, we could sure use some help racing next season;) Got a lot of room on the side of the "white trailer"! -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! Yes, it was U.S. Suzuki Motor Corp. I think they've renamed it since. I used to race motocross myself on the old TM 125 and TM 400 and then on a Maico 400. Held AMA national number 42 at one time. But, this was years and years ago back when Hans Maisch, Heikki Mikkola and the great Joel Robert were in their prime and I've lost contact with any and all.They're probably all retired by now anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%ABl_Robert Your daughter sounds good. I wish you all well. Thanks, she's livin' the dream... Wilbur/Gregory/Neal is dreaming as well. Dreaming that you're a PUTZ? Oh wait a minute. That's no dream; that's reality. lol -- Gregory Hall |
mixing gas and oil questions
Interesting that my comments should have had the group ranting and raving.
Nice, however, to see WH/GH ack their duality, finally, after all the "he's my roommate" and the like denials. Meanwhile, inquiring minds still want to know... Why do outboard manufacturers insist that you run double the oil during breakin, and under severe operating conditions, if it's likely to blow out the pistons as liquid aluminum? Never mind whether or not a certified mechanic can be trusted or whether or not I selectively read. At least one poster has verified doubling the oil during breakin so it stands to reason that it MIGHT be possible that the manual actually says the same about severe operating conditions... L8R Skip, chasing his starting issues, still, report to follow -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:54:44 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: Never mind whether or not a certified mechanic can be trusted or whether or not I selectively read. At least one poster has verified doubling the oil during breakin so it stands to reason that it MIGHT be possible that the manual actually says the same about severe operating conditions... I don't think so. That's when you're likely to experience pre-ignition/detonation due to the lowered self ignition temperature of the fuel mix. |
mixing gas and oil questions
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:09:13 -0400, Harry®
wrote: Are you guys here just to disturb the serenity of rec.boats? They are refugees from "alt.sailing.asa" who escaped through a wormhole in the fabric of the space-time continuum. Hopefully someone will beam them back up. |
mixing gas and oil questions
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:54:44 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Never mind whether or not a certified mechanic can be trusted or whether or not I selectively read. At least one poster has verified doubling the oil during breakin so it stands to reason that it MIGHT be possible that the manual actually says the same about severe operating conditions... I don't think so. That's when you're likely to experience pre-ignition/detonation due to the lowered self ignition temperature of the fuel mix. Duh! Increasing the oil to fuel ratio does not lower the self-ignition temperature. It raises it. We are not talking diesel engines here. We are talking two-stroke gasoline engines with their relatively low compression ratios. Try running a two-stroke (two-cycle) engine on pure two-stroke oil and they won't self ignite to combustion EVER! Even a spark plug won't make the thing fire. Try running them on half and half gas and oil and they might just barely run given a source of ignition like a spark plug before it fouls with oil in about a minute but they won't self-ignite EVER. Try running them on nothing but gasoline and they will have a much higher likelihood of self-ignition (aka detonation, knock or ping) for about a minute before the piston seizes to the cylinder wall. I hate like hell to say it but SKIPPY IS CORRECT. Increasing the oil to fuel ratio will not damage the engine from detonation, etc. Wilbur Hubbard |
mixing gas and oil questions
"YukonBound" wrote in message ... "MMC" wrote in message g.com... "YukonBound" wrote in message ... ted@theted. wrote in message ... i have a jetski and a boat with an evinrude 115 hp outboard. can they both use the same gas/oil mix? someone told me it should be a pint to six gallons but i would rather mix a pint with 5 gallons because it's easier and to be on the safe side if that's ok. is a pint to 5 gallons ok for both the jetski and the evinrude? thanks! ted I follow the manual recommendations. i also dropped into the Vespa scooter store and bought the little plastic measuring device. It's great for a 50:1 mix. Saves guess work when out on the high seas. You take a Vespa out on the high seas Don? Why not... strap a couple of pontoons on the side and engage the marine drive.............................. Haha! Probably gets great milage. |
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