From Page 8 of the OMC manual for the 15HP, a 1992j model:

To protect your new outboard motor during the intiial hours of operation,
and to seat internal engine components, you MUST (emphasis theirs) add extra
oil during the break-in period.

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 12 gallons must be *25-1* (emphasis
theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1*
(emphasis theirs).


My 6HP manual in hand is just before they went to 100-1 oil. Note that
this, a 2005 manual, as the dealer didn't have a current one, is for the
normally 50-1 mix engine. My 6 is actually a couple of years later, and the
recommended use is for half of that shown above. As mine was a trade-in, it
didn't happen to have its original manual, explaining why I'm looking at an
older one.

It says, on page 15:

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 10 hours must be *25-1* (emphasis theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1*
(emphasis theirs).

HOWEVER...

"During high performance opertion you must use a *25-1* fuel/oil ratio in
your fuel tank."

Now, I agree, OMC is a poor source of information about what to use in their
engines for them to warranty them.

But until some more authoratative source presents, I'm going with the
manual.l NOTHING in it suggests, and, quite the contrary, demands its use,
for high performance, that doubling the oil is harmful to the engine.

Indeed, high performance seems to me to be more stressful, and, as such, if
the assertions that too much oil will melt the aluminum, that the
recommendation would be for LESS oil, not doubling it...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Skip,
I think we both speak English. I recommended up front to follow the manufacturer's recommendation, they built the motor. However,
lube oil mixed with gasoline will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel and it is a contributing risk factor for detonation.
You obviously don't believe me, so I invited you to do the research yourself.....you didn't. Instead, you quoted a user manual and
you are still talking trash from a point of no knowledge. What is wrong with this picture?
Steve

"Flying Pig" wrote in message ...
From Page 8 of the OMC manual for the 15HP, a 1992j model:

To protect your new outboard motor during the intiial hours of operation, and to seat internal engine components, you MUST
(emphasis theirs) add extra oil during the break-in period.

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 12 gallons must be *25-1* (emphasis theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1* (emphasis theirs).


My 6HP manual in hand is just before they went to 100-1 oil. Note that this, a 2005 manual, as the dealer didn't have a current
one, is for the normally 50-1 mix engine. My 6 is actually a couple of years later, and the recommended use is for half of that
shown above. As mine was a trade-in, it didn't happen to have its original manual, explaining why I'm looking at an older one.

It says, on page 15:

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 10 hours must be *25-1* (emphasis theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be *50-1* (emphasis theirs).

HOWEVER...

"During high performance opertion you must use a *25-1* fuel/oil ratio in your fuel tank."

Now, I agree, OMC is a poor source of information about what to use in their engines for them to warranty them.

But until some more authoratative source presents, I'm going with the manual.l NOTHING in it suggests, and, quite the contrary,
demands its use, for high performance, that doubling the oil is harmful to the engine.

Indeed, high performance seems to me to be more stressful, and, as such, if the assertions that too much oil will melt the
aluminum, that the recommendation would be for LESS oil, not doubling it...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Skip,
I think we both speak English. I recommended up front to follow the
manufacturer's recommendation, they built the motor. However, lube oil
mixed with gasoline will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel and
it is a contributing risk factor for detonation. You obviously don't
believe me, so I invited you to do the research yourself.....you didn't.
Instead, you quoted a user manual and you are still talking trash from a
point of no knowledge. What is wrong with this picture?
Steve

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
From Page 8 of the OMC manual for the 15HP, a 1992j model:

To protect your new outboard motor during the intiial hours of
operation, and to seat internal engine components, you MUST (emphasis
theirs) add extra oil during the break-in period.

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 12 gallons must be *25-1* (emphasis
theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be
*50-1* (emphasis theirs).


My 6HP manual in hand is just before they went to 100-1 oil. Note
that this, a 2005 manual, as the dealer didn't have a current one, is
for the normally 50-1 mix engine. My 6 is actually a couple of years
later, and the recommended use is for half of that shown above. As
mine was a trade-in, it didn't happen to have its original manual,
explaining why I'm looking at an older one.

It says, on page 15:

The fuel/oil ratio for the first 10 hours must be *25-1* (emphasis
theirs).

The fuel oil ratio during normal operation, after break-in, must be
*50-1* (emphasis theirs).

HOWEVER...

"During high performance opertion you must use a *25-1* fuel/oil ratio
in your fuel tank."

Now, I agree, OMC is a poor source of information about what to use in
their engines for them to warranty them.

But until some more authoratative source presents, I'm going with the
manual.l NOTHING in it suggests, and, quite the contrary, demands its
use, for high performance, that doubling the oil is harmful to the
engine.

Indeed, high performance seems to me to be more stressful, and, as
such, if the assertions that too much oil will melt the aluminum, that
the recommendation would be for LESS oil, not doubling it...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely
nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing
about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."



Engines with automatic oil injection systems supply extra oil for
hard use such as hole shots for water skiing. The only problems I've
seen with too much oil is gummed up plugs.
g

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Skip,
I think we both speak English. I recommended up front to follow the
manufacturer's recommendation, they built the motor. However, lube oil
mixed with gasoline will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel and it
is a contributing risk factor for detonation. You obviously don't believe
me, so I invited you to do the research yourself.....you didn't. Instead,
you quoted a user manual and you are still talking trash from a point of
no knowledge. What is wrong with this picture?
Steve


Hi, Steve,

I'm not talking trash - I'm citing owner's manuals. If what the
manufacturer puts out as a requirement for warranty on the engine comes
across as trash, I'm sorry, but I can't be held responsible :{))

In any event, I don't do high performance, so doubling isn't needed from
that perspective. OTOH, in my 100-1 engine, avoiding starvation is of
greater concern, and a many-decades old service company has suggested that
I'm better safe than sorry - so I use the same mix in both units.

And, 18 years later, the 15 is still going strong, though nothing I know of
its history, nor my personal use in the last three years, suggests doubling
the oil other than on breakin...

L8R

Skip.

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

" Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." wrote in message
...
"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:20:30 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Wilbur,
You have it almost correct, but what actually happens is that in the
hottest point in the combustion chamber, the fuel/oil mix
diesels starting a flame front, but before that flame propagates
across
the piston surface, the spark sets off another flame
front. When the two fronts collide there is a very high temperature
explosion that causes the aluminum to actually melt. This can
be heard as a knock, but it is very difficult to hear in an outboard
engine. At low throttle, this can be tolerated for a few
seconds, but at high throttle, it is almost instantaneously terminal,
as
much of the head and piston blows out the exhaust port as
molten aluminum. The entire point of this thread is to point out that
lube oil will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel
charge. Catastrophic damage, on the other hand is a product of chamber
temperature, fuel/air ratio, as well as the fuel mix
tolerance to auto ignition. If the engine is of the low performance
variety, fuel/oil mix tolerance will be greater, but in a high
performance configuration much more attention must be given to the
fuel
mix.

Historically, the migration from the recommendation of 25:1 to 50:1
occurred with the change from plain bearings to roller/needle
bearings. Oil injectors allow even more reduction, because lubrication
can be assured at low throttle settings where lube
starvation always occurs with premix fuel. This lube starvation was
the
primary driver for fat fuel/oil mixes.
Steve

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Bob" wrote in message
...
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING

Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer,
gave me
the exact opposite recommendation.......

Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly.
In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla
bla
evenrude bla..."

Further, my manuals for both engines show ........

Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader.

I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious
effects, but
my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem.

Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please
dont
use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious
effects
on my comprehension.

Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash
than
gasoline.

How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile?
L8R
Skip

:: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and
combustion
:: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please
:: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit
the
:: jetty.


I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a
given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock
ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front
propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to
cylinder/piston surfaces.

It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the
temperature
of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if
the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage
from
heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works
(piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust port
will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted
and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to
travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the
exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut
that
one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine
would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the
time.

Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you
listed.

Wilbur Hubbard
(worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical
advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years)





What motorcycle company? This year my daughter is on an '09 RMZ 250
that
was Tony Lorousso's Nationals bike last year... Bettencourts, Pro
Circuit, Factory Connection... Lowered with a Pro Circuit link, PC
Pipe,
and a couple of extra toys

Last year she took third place for the season in the womens 125/250
class, working her ass off on a KX100 all season.

If you still have friends over there, we could sure use some help
racing
next season Got a lot of room on the side of the "white trailer"!


--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!



Yes, it was U.S. Suzuki Motor Corp. I think they've renamed it since. I
used
to race motocross myself on the old TM 125 and TM 400 and then on a Maico
400. Held AMA national number 42 at one time. But, this was years and
years
ago back when Hans Maisch, Heikki Mikkola and the great Joel Robert were
in
their prime and I've lost contact with any and all.They're probably all
retired by now anyway.


Bwhahahahaha! Priceless!




What's priceles? Everybody with half a brain knows that Wilbur and Greg
are one and the same.

And Anonymous, Anne Omine, Lady Pilot, etc, etc, etc.
As you said, everybody knows.

"MMC" wrote in message
ng.com...


" Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." wrote in message
...
"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:20:30 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Wilbur,
You have it almost correct, but what actually happens is that in the
hottest point in the combustion chamber, the fuel/oil mix
diesels starting a flame front, but before that flame propagates
across
the piston surface, the spark sets off another flame
front. When the two fronts collide there is a very high temperature
explosion that causes the aluminum to actually melt. This can
be heard as a knock, but it is very difficult to hear in an outboard
engine. At low throttle, this can be tolerated for a few
seconds, but at high throttle, it is almost instantaneously terminal,
as
much of the head and piston blows out the exhaust port as
molten aluminum. The entire point of this thread is to point out that
lube oil will lower the auto ignition point of the fuel
charge. Catastrophic damage, on the other hand is a product of
chamber
temperature, fuel/air ratio, as well as the fuel mix
tolerance to auto ignition. If the engine is of the low performance
variety, fuel/oil mix tolerance will be greater, but in a high
performance configuration much more attention must be given to the
fuel
mix.

Historically, the migration from the recommendation of 25:1 to 50:1
occurred with the change from plain bearings to roller/needle
bearings. Oil injectors allow even more reduction, because
lubrication
can be assured at low throttle settings where lube
starvation always occurs with premix fuel. This lube starvation was
the
primary driver for fat fuel/oil mixes.
Steve

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Bob" wrote in message
...
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING

Interesting. The Outboard Shop, the local evinrude/johnson dealer,
gave me
the exact opposite recommendation.......

Fact: people forget 50% of what they hear immediatly.
In other words SKip you probablly heard, "bla bla bla recomend bla
bla
evenrude bla..."

Further, my manuals for both engines show ........

Gaaaaa you have to comprehend also my selective reader.

I grant you that quadrupling the oil may have some deletorious
effects, but
my common sense tells me........ should not be a problem.

Hey sikp have you been using your BrontoThesaurus again ? Please
dont
use such big words as deletorius. They sont have a Salubrious
effects
on my comprehension.

Also, I've never seen oil being more subject to explosion/flash
than
gasoline.

How does adding oil to fuel make it more volatile?
L8R
Skip

:: Your comment and question shows a basic lack of fuel and
combustion
:: concept understanding. Will those here more knowledgable please
:: inlighten SKip. Im off to watch the 30 foot 17 second swells hit
the
:: jetty.


I think Mr. Grundlach may be correct for once. Adding more oil to a
given amount of gasoline actually acts as an anti-knock
ingredient. It lowers the rate of speed at which the flame front
propagates from source of ignition (spark plug) to
cylinder/piston surfaces.

It increases the duration of the burn and thus lowers the
temperature
of the burn. Add too much oil and the motor will run as if
the choke were on. I don't know of any cases where piston damage
from
heat will result. The worst that will happen is the works
(piston rings piston crown) might become gummed up, the exhaust
port
will become carboned up and exhaust gass passage restricted
and exhaust port opening retarded because the piston will have to
travel down several millimeters more before it reaches the
exhaust port opening. I have seen exhaust ports so carboned shut
that
one could barely poke a finger through it. The engine
would not rev up and it performed like the choke was on all the
time.

Too much oil is, indeed, a bad idea but not for the reasons you
listed.

Wilbur Hubbard
(worked as a two-stroke mechanic for seven years and as a technical
advisor for a Japanese motorcycle company for seven years)





What motorcycle company? This year my daughter is on an '09 RMZ 250
that
was Tony Lorousso's Nationals bike last year... Bettencourts, Pro
Circuit, Factory Connection... Lowered with a Pro Circuit link, PC
Pipe,
and a couple of extra toys

Last year she took third place for the season in the womens 125/250
class, working her ass off on a KX100 all season.

If you still have friends over there, we could sure use some help
racing
next season Got a lot of room on the side of the "white trailer"!


--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!



Yes, it was U.S. Suzuki Motor Corp. I think they've renamed it since. I
used
to race motocross myself on the old TM 125 and TM 400 and then on a
Maico
400. Held AMA national number 42 at one time. But, this was years and
years
ago back when Hans Maisch, Heikki Mikkola and the great Joel Robert were
in
their prime and I've lost contact with any and all.They're probably all
retired by now anyway.


Bwhahahahaha! Priceless!




What's priceles? Everybody with half a brain knows that Wilbur and Greg
are one and the same.

And Anonymous, Anne Omine, Lady Pilot, etc, etc, etc.
As you said, everybody knows.



Anonymous, Anne Onime, George Orwell etc., are stock remailer nyms. Anybody
can post anonymously and receive one of those nyms. Lady Pilot is not Wilbur
Hubbard or Gregory Hall. She's another alt.net subscriber.


Wilbur Hubbard