man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

Ya got to watch this one...........

Fat ass on a cockpit easy boy dies. Looks like excessive BMI and
failure to maintaine deck fasteners. My guess is crevis corrosion at
head of SS machine screw.... nah, they used ss wood screws and they
just pooped out.


http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Man-...104711794.html

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On 10/13/2010 1:46 AM, Bob wrote:
Ya got to watch this one...........

Fat ass on a cockpit easy boy dies. Looks like excessive BMI and
failure to maintaine deck fasteners. My guess is crevis corrosion at
head of SS machine screw.... nah, they used ss wood screws and they
just pooped out.


http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Man-...104711794.html

Forget the fat ass insult - you have no evidence for that. If you have
never had a pedestal seat break away, then it's just one more event in
your future.
What you SHOULD be on his case for, is this:
his kids were ALL wearing life-jackets, but he wasn't.
He wasn't a strong swimmer, and the Columbia river is cold, cold, cold
at this time.

Brian W

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Ya got to watch this one...........

Fat ass on a cockpit easy boy dies. Looks like excessive BMI and
failure to maintaine deck fasteners. My guess is crevis corrosion at
head of SS machine screw.... nah, they used ss wood screws and they
just pooped out.


http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Man-...104711794.html

Guy goes over the side with his kids watching and you want to make fun and
call names? You continue to be one of the biggest horses asses on the NGs.
Congrats and back to the **** bin with you.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

Guy goes over the side with his kids watching and you want to make fun and
call names? You continue to be one of the biggest horses asses on the NGs.
Congrats and back to the **** bin with you.

Yes, it is an absolute tragedy and my heart goes to those children who
will most likely bear for the rest of their life some guilt why they
did or did not do somthing correctly to save their father. Absolutly
terrible.

But............ I condem the father for failing on every level both as
a parent and as a vessel operator. He placed his children in a
situation to bare that guilt all their life. For him I say, what an
asshole for causing so much grief and heartake just be cause he wasnt
a caring enough father to address so many defeciencies that lead to
his death. To the dad I say, SAME ON YOU!

Poor maintance on a device that has no purpose on a sailboat.
Alowing a ****ing lazyboy on a sailboat in the first place.
Did not provide a safe role model for children. I imagine the mother
bitched him out , saying: if you want to act like a fool and not wear
a PFD I dont care BUT if my children are going on that damn boat you
better make sure they all wear their PFDs.
Finally, as a parent he has the responsibilty to protect himself. By
acting foolishly he placed his family in jeprody just as well as if he
had unprotected sex with some hooker at the Troutdale truck stop. As a
parent, I always ask myself, what would my children(s) feel or do if
somthing happended to me? Obviously that Dad didnt know enough to
protect his family by protecting himself.

When children, or anyone for that matter, are on a vessel the operator
must serve as the de facto safety model. All will look to the operator
(her/him) for guidance on how to behave safely.

His biggest failings were Arogance and Ignorance two sins a vessel
operator can not afford.

ob

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:46:47 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

Ya got to watch this one...........

Fat ass on a cockpit easy boy dies. Looks like excessive BMI and
failure to maintaine deck fasteners. My guess is crevis corrosion at
head of SS machine screw.... nah, they used ss wood screws and they
just pooped out.


http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Man-...104711794.html


Did you read the article that you quote?

The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.


The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.


Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:



Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.


The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.


Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

Well bravo, you stand a watch" and you stand up all the time. I assume
that is a standard naval watch - 4 hours. Now try it for a day and a
night as some cruising people do.

But the whole argument is ridicules - a competent person ensures that
he can see what needs to be seen and if one can do that sitting down
then it is certainly sufficient, whether sitting, lying or standing.

The argument that because you need to walk about to see the waters
surrounding your vessel is necessary and therefore every helmsman must
walk around is ridicules. The helmsman of a VLCC can walk around the
bridge all he wants and still can't see the water ahead of the vessel
and a bloke in a small yacht may be able to see it all lying on his
back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Oct 14, 4:18*am, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:







Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.

The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.

Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

Well bravo, you stand a watch" and you stand up all the time. I assume
that is a standard naval watch - 4 hours. Now try it for a day and a
night as some cruising people do.

But the whole argument is ridicules - a competent person ensures that
he can see what needs to be seen and if one can do that sitting down
then it is certainly sufficient, whether sitting, lying or standing.

*The argument that because you need to walk about to see the waters
surrounding your vessel is necessary and therefore every helmsman must
walk around is ridicules. The helmsman of a VLCC can walk around the
bridge all he wants and still can't see the water ahead of the vessel
and a bloke in a small yacht may be able to see it all lying on his
back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



Hello Bruce:

After reading your posts for a few years I believe you are a
reasonable, measured, and bright person. I believe that overboard
death could have easily been avoided simply by eliminating any one of
the several deficiencies that contributed to his death.

Do you agree his death was preventable?
If so, other than wearing a PFD what else would be necessary to avoid
death?

BOb
(on vacation)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:33:36 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Oct 14, 4:18*am, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:







Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.

The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.

Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

Well bravo, you stand a watch" and you stand up all the time. I assume
that is a standard naval watch - 4 hours. Now try it for a day and a
night as some cruising people do.

But the whole argument is ridicules - a competent person ensures that
he can see what needs to be seen and if one can do that sitting down
then it is certainly sufficient, whether sitting, lying or standing.

*The argument that because you need to walk about to see the waters
surrounding your vessel is necessary and therefore every helmsman must
walk around is ridicules. The helmsman of a VLCC can walk around the
bridge all he wants and still can't see the water ahead of the vessel
and a bloke in a small yacht may be able to see it all lying on his
back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



Hello Bruce:

After reading your posts for a few years I believe you are a
reasonable, measured, and bright person. I believe that overboard
death could have easily been avoided simply by eliminating any one of
the several deficiencies that contributed to his death.

Do you agree his death was preventable?
If so, other than wearing a PFD what else would be necessary to avoid
death?

BOb
(on vacation)

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

Sailing in the Hobart Race is, for example, far more dangerous then in
the Thailand King's Cup but they may well have more entries in the
Hobart Race; sailing round the horn is far more dangerous then going
through the canal but people still do it. "My Old Man and the Sea" is
a book about a father and son who planned and prepared for several
years to "round the horn", even built a special boat for it.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

Sailing in the Hobart Race is, for example, far more dangerous then in
the Thailand King's Cup but they may well have more entries in the
Hobart Race; sailing round the horn is far more dangerous then going
through the canal but people still do it. "My Old Man and the Sea" is
a book about a father and son who planned and prepared for several
years to "round the horn", even built a special boat for it.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I loved that book, Bruce.
Hell of a story.
even with the 10,000 mile cat...


--

Richard Lamb

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

BOb
(on vacation)

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,
Bruce

Can not be safe 100% of the time…….. ???????????

Other people believe differently. Several boat companies in the GOM,
drug, and other industries believe 100% of all injuries are
preventable. Its part of there HSE program. Im still not sure about
that but Im beginning to believe that there is no such thing as an
"accident" and there fore probably, yes all are preventable. I just
don’t believe in fate or a predestined future. As in, we are all
gonna dies anyway so why fret with safe equipment choice and
maintence.

Im also the person a few years ago that argued strongly that there are
no such things as “sneaker-rogue waves” Why, because they are
reasonably predictable because we know what generates those anomalous
waves. For example, there is an increased likelihood of a
significantly huge wave based on conditions X-Y&F.

Are they feared killer sneaker waves because some dolt doesn’t know
why they form?

Or are they simply really big waves one can EXPECT AND PREPARE FOR
given weather systems, current, water depth, and history of occurrence
by location….?
Is ignorance a reason to justify loss of life and accept death by
chair as our fate?

I say the guy was just another stupid **** who was more interested in
looking cool on his sail boat. He had unsafe equipment (chair) that
had no business on a boat that SMALL. I also condemned the guy for
using equipment that was not properly maintained.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

In article , Bob wrote:

[snip]

Can not be safe 100% of the time??.. ???????????

No, you cannot. Unless you never get out of bed, and yet, at the same
time, ensure that someone maintains your house so that the chimney
doesn't fall on you through the roof the next time the wind blows.


Other people believe differently. Several boat companies in the GOM,
drug, and other industries believe 100% of all injuries are
preventable.

These are the people who are encouraging the "I got hurt, it must be
someone's fault, who can I blame/sue?" attitude, and they are wrong.


Im still not sure about
that but Im beginning to believe that there is no such thing as an
"accident" and there fore probably, yes all are preventable.

Maybe all are preventable, but to what lengths do you want to go to
protect yourself? Do you stop sailing incase some half-submerged
container holes your boat and sinks you? Do you stop walking in the
woods in case a branch falls on your head? Do you stop walking along the
cliffs because they are constantly eroding and may collapse without
warning?

Sure, we could blame the shipping company that lost the container, that
could easily have been carelessness, but your hitting it was an accident
that you couldn't avoid because you couldn't see it, perhaps you should
never have left the dock. Maybe all the trees should be cut down so that
there are no branches to fall on people. Maybe someone should be
employed to check all trees on a daily basis for the likelihood of
falling branches, or forests should be made forbidden places just for
our safety. With regard to the cliffs, well, they're obviously *way* too
dangerous and the public should be made to stay at least 100 yards away
at all times. Utterly ridiculous.


I just
don?t believe in fate or a predestined future.

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident. That half submerged container could have
been missed by inches, and you would still not have known about it. It's
not fate or pre-destiny, it is the coinciding of two facts, the ones you
know about and the ones that you don't stand a chance of knowing about.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:46:34 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident.

There's some truth to that but it's a poor starting point for safety
awareness and prevention.

Accidents are enormously expensive and damaging for everyone concerned
so it pays to do take all reasonable precautions to prevent them.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 09:42:31 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:46:34 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident.

There's some truth to that but it's a poor starting point for safety
awareness and prevention.

Accidents are enormously expensive and damaging for everyone concerned
so it pays to do take all reasonable precautions to prevent them.

When I was in the Air Force they had an aggressive safety program
(probably still do :-) with all the inspections, meetings, lectures,
and so on. and, it did eliminate most of the really stupid accidents.
But with all that there were still accidents. In fact the Safety
Manual, that all supervisors were required to know, and tested on
monthly, stated that according to the National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce


So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

I say bull **** on that. If i get struck by lightning while standing
on the pitcher's mound is that an act of God or should I have been
able to recognize lightning and seek a safer spot? How about flash
flood and yu get swept away while camping in a stream bed? How about
eating ****, never exersizing, and smoking all your life and then at
45 yo ur doctor says u have high blood preasure. Is that an act of
god?

its easy to say god did it. That makes you a totally not responsible
for anything. When two vessesl collide is one vessel always found at
fault and the other 100% free of fault?

Acts of god are a dolts way of saying, I dont want to sholder any
responsibilty. I want to be blameless. Im a childish republican who
thinks igorance is just cause for injury, death, and loss of property

bob

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce


So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

It is just a term, used in many legal documents, that indicates that
the event was inexplicable. It is an "an act of God", for example, if
a sudden storm arises and blows your barn down.

I say bull **** on that. If i get struck by lightning while standing
on the pitcher's mound is that an act of God or should I have been
able to recognize lightning and seek a safer spot? How about flash
flood and yu get swept away while camping in a stream bed? How about
eating ****, never exersizing, and smoking all your life and then at

You are driving down the road and a deer jumps out in front of you and
you wreck your car avoiding it?

45 yo ur doctor says u have high blood preasure. Is that an act of
god?

its easy to say god did it. That makes you a totally not responsible
for anything. When two vessesl collide is one vessel always found at
fault and the other 100% free of fault?

Acts of god are a dolts way of saying, I dont want to sholder any
responsibilty. I want to be blameless. Im a childish republican who
thinks igorance is just cause for injury, death, and loss of property

bob

Rather then ask a lot of irrational questions you might try googleing
the term. The Wiki has a pretty detailed explanation.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Oct 17, 5:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce

So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

It is just a term, used in many legal documents, that indicates that
the event was inexplicable. It is an "an act of God", for example, if
a sudden storm arises and blows your barn down.

Yes, I understand the definition. However Ive started to question that
archaic phrase.

If s storm arises and blows my barn I say bad on the farmer for not
maintaing a structurally sound barn. Did every other barn in that area
do the same? Probabbly not


You are driving down the road and a deer jumps out in front of you and
you wreck your car avoiding it?

Absolutly, I lived in a region of PNW where deer were as think as rats
and birds. They beded down in my side yard. I lived 4 blocks from down
in a city with population of 15000. I drove the interstate for 18
years and EVER hit a deer, saw lots, had several near misses, and knew
many other who hit deer. Why did I avoid hitting an Act of Deer God ?
I predected deer occurance and took required steps to avoid hitting
them. Nothing super natural just plane conservative and knowledgable
practices.


Rather then ask a lot of irrational questions you might try googleing
the term. The Wiki has a pretty detailed explanation.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I understand the concept I just dont belive that people have the
luxury of laming stupidy on GOD.
bob

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:45:35 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Oct 17, 5:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce

So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

It is just a term, used in many legal documents, that indicates that
the event was inexplicable. It is an "an act of God", for example, if
a sudden storm arises and blows your barn down.

Yes, I understand the definition. However Ive started to question that
archaic phrase.

If s storm arises and blows my barn I say bad on the farmer for not
maintaing a structurally sound barn. Did every other barn in that area
do the same? Probabbly not

I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?



You are driving down the road and a deer jumps out in front of you and
you wreck your car avoiding it?

Absolutly, I lived in a region of PNW where deer were as think as rats
and birds. They beded down in my side yard. I lived 4 blocks from down
in a city with population of 15000. I drove the interstate for 18
years and EVER hit a deer, saw lots, had several near misses, and knew
many other who hit deer. Why did I avoid hitting an Act of Deer God ?
I predected deer occurance and took required steps to avoid hitting
them. Nothing super natural just plane conservative and knowledgable
practices.


Rather then ask a lot of irrational questions you might try googleing
the term. The Wiki has a pretty detailed explanation.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I understand the concept I just dont belive that people have the
luxury of laming stupidy on GOD.
bob
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?

I think you're wasting your time, Bruce. It seems Bob wants someone to
be responsible for everything; Haitian earthquakes, Icelandic volcanos,
Indian ocean tsunamis, it's *all* got to be someone's fault, Bob can't
accept that sometimes **** happens.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:08:23 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?

I think you're wasting your time, Bruce. It seems Bob wants someone to
be responsible for everything; Haitian earthquakes, Icelandic volcanos,
Indian ocean tsunamis, it's *all* got to be someone's fault, Bob can't
accept that sometimes **** happens.

Justin.


Yes, I realize that he is somewhat of a zealot but I just can't resist
poking holes in balloons.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

I think you're wasting your time, Bruce. It seems Bob wants someone to
be responsible for everything; Haitian earthquakes, Icelandic volcanos,
Indian ocean tsunamis, it's *all* got to be someone's fault, Bob can't
accept that sometimes **** happens.

* *Justin.

**** does happen all the time but sometimes one fellow simply walks
away thiniking, Humm just another Tuesday. While others runn around
wailing like a another welfare republican hoping to get saved by some
one cause God did it.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?


Sounds like he put all his eggs in one basket. To bad he " bet the
farm" on one roll of the dice. What was his plan B in case the ****
hit the fan...... as it did in his case?

Another chapter could have been, a fire burnt it all down and the
price of timber went sky high but there was no marketable timber left.
There are several possible takes on that one.

Personally, my relitives left Houlton Maine in the late 1850s and
headed to the Oregon Territory to log and then farm the land. They
seemed to do just fine... humm maybe the PNW was a better deal than
Maine ;) Its all about knowledge and judgment. Observe, predict, take
corrective actions. Learn..... and the world becomes simple.

Ya ever wonder why some people always have all the bad luck... you
know like driving a perfictly good boat on a reer, constant motor
problmes, and a never ending list of system hassels Oh and people
problems?
Bob

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 00:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:


I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?


Sounds like he put all his eggs in one basket. To bad he " bet the
farm" on one roll of the dice. What was his plan B in case the ****
hit the fan...... as it did in his case?


Another chapter could have been, a fire burnt it all down and the
price of timber went sky high but there was no marketable timber left.
There are several possible takes on that one.

Personally, my relitives left Houlton Maine in the late 1850s and
headed to the Oregon Territory to log and then farm the land. They
seemed to do just fine... humm maybe the PNW was a better deal than
Maine ;) Its all about knowledge and judgment. Observe, predict, take
corrective actions. Learn..... and the world becomes simple.

Ya ever wonder why some people always have all the bad luck... you
know like driving a perfictly good boat on a reer, constant motor
problmes, and a never ending list of system hassels Oh and people
problems?
Bob


So, your contribution to the discussion about of Acts of God is "don't
put your eggs in one basket" and "my folks moved to Oregon"?

A meaningful response, indeed.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

So, your contribution to the discussion about of Acts of God is "don't
put your eggs in one basket" and "my folks moved to Oregon"?

A meaningful response, indeed.

Cheers,
Bruce

Yup that sums it up. Always have a plan B.... but even more important
Bruce: keep and open mind and always improve yourself.When a person
isnt learning true stuff (best practices based on research/facts) they
are gona keep messing up. Those folks are easy to spot by their
language:
Gaawd damn its a damn shame that happened Bubba.
ya but not much ya can do bout that Bear. **** happens ya kno.
Yup, ya cant go through life trying to be safe and protect ur self
from every thing all the time. hell yald never get nuthin dun Bubba.

Im a bleliver.... 99.99% of injuries and boat crashes/loss are
predictable and preventable.... Hell just look at ole JoE formerly of
the Red Clown and SKip and Lydia. Those two losses were easily
predicted.... and i think they were right here by this wonderful peer
review process we have on RBC.

Time to go get the chickens up.........

bob.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

In article , Bob wrote:

I think you're wasting your time, Bruce. It seems Bob wants someone to
be responsible for everything; Haitian earthquakes, Icelandic volcanos,
Indian ocean tsunamis, it's *all* got to be someone's fault, Bob can't
accept that sometimes **** happens.

* *Justin.

**** does happen all the time but sometimes one fellow simply walks
away thiniking, Humm just another Tuesday. While others runn around
wailing like a another welfare republican hoping to get saved by some
one cause God did it.

.... or runs around greed obsessed looking whose ass he can sue.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

In article , Bob wrote:

So, your contribution to the discussion about of Acts of God is "don't
put your eggs in one basket" and "my folks moved to Oregon"?

A meaningful response, indeed.

Cheers,
Bruce

Yup that sums it up. Always have a plan B.... but even more important
Bruce: keep and open mind and always improve yourself.When a person
isnt learning true stuff (best practices based on research/facts) they
are gona keep messing up. Those folks are easy to spot by their
language:
Gaawd damn its a damn shame that happened Bubba.
ya but not much ya can do bout that Bear. **** happens ya kno.
Yup, ya cant go through life trying to be safe and protect ur self
from every thing all the time. hell yald never get nuthin dun Bubba.

Im a bleliver.... 99.99% of injuries and boat crashes/loss are
predictable and preventable.... Hell just look at ole JoE formerly of
the Red Clown and SKip and Lydia. Those two losses were easily
predicted.... and i think they were right here by this wonderful peer
review process we have on RBC.

Time to go get the chickens up.........

bob.

Then how do you explain those idiots who manage to do OK? There are
people you bump into in life who you just wonder how they manage to put
one foot in front of the other yet they seem to do just fine, they don't
plan and research yet they always do OK. And what about those who plan
and plan, and spend years researching, do all possible to eliminate
possible failure and yet things go catastrophically bad, as an example
take Apollo 13?

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:54:26 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

And what about those who plan
and plan, and spend years researching, do all possible to eliminate
possible failure and yet things go catastrophically bad, as an example
take Apollo 13?

1. Some are just plain lucky (an accident waiting for a place to
happen).

2. Some do a lot of planning but don't fully understand the risks and
issues, and what should be done to mitigate them (mostly a lack of
real world experience).

3. Some, like Appollo 13, were calculated risks that went bad (no one
ever said that the early days of space travel were going to be totally
safe).

4. Some are cock sure arrogant and think it can't happen to them (see
item number 1).

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Oct 20, 12:54*pm, Justin C wrote:
In article , Bob wrote:

So, your contribution to the discussion about of Acts of God is "don't
put your eggs in one basket" and "my folks moved to Oregon"?

A meaningful response, indeed.

Cheers,
Bruce

Yup that sums it up. Always have a plan B.... but even more important
Bruce: keep and open mind and always improve yourself.When a person
isnt learning true stuff (best practices based on research/facts) they
are gona keep messing up. Those folks are easy to spot by their
language:
Gaawd damn its a damn shame that happened Bubba.
ya but not much ya can do bout that Bear. **** happens ya kno.
Yup, ya cant go through life trying to be safe and protect ur self
from every thing all the time. hell yald never get nuthin dun Bubba.

Im a bleliver.... 99.99% of injuries and boat crashes/loss are
predictable and preventable.... Hell just look at ole JoE formerly of
the Red Clown and SKip and Lydia. Those two losses were easily
predicted.... and i think they were right here by this wonderful peer
review process we have on RBC.

Time to go get the chickens up.........

bob.

Then how do you explain those idiots who manage to do OK? There are
people you bump into in life who you just wonder how they manage to put
one foot in front of the other yet they seem to do just fine, they don't
plan and research yet they always do OK. And what about those who plan
and plan, and spend years researching, do all possible to eliminate
possible failure and yet things go catastrophically bad, as an example
take Apollo 13?

* *Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Apollo 13, Shuttles Columbia and Challenger, Titanic, Amelia Earhart,
Steve Fossett, Pete Blake, you could go on and on of people who
embraced risk and failed..... but as JFK said "you have to risk
greatly to achieve greatly"

So ignore bOb, he is not a good example of anything,...except "waking
up chickens" maybe.

Listen to someone like Pete Goss who says: "Life hangs on a very thin
thread and the cancer of time is complacency. If you are going to do
something, do it now. Tomorrow is too late." Pete's lost a boat or
two, but he's racing in the Route du Rhum next mo. and I think he's
going to win.

bOb and his lover Nealbur both need to sit in on one of Pete's
corporate teaching sessions on embracing risk. They both are meek and
timid at best.

Joe

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:39:38 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:54:26 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

And what about those who plan
and plan, and spend years researching, do all possible to eliminate
possible failure and yet things go catastrophically bad, as an example
take Apollo 13?

1. Some are just plain lucky (an accident waiting for a place to
happen).

2. Some do a lot of planning but don't fully understand the risks and
issues, and what should be done to mitigate them (mostly a lack of
real world experience).

3. Some, like Appollo 13, were calculated risks that went bad (no one
ever said that the early days of space travel were going to be totally
safe).

4. Some are cock sure arrogant and think it can't happen to them (see
item number 1).


There is no doubt in my mind that there is such a thing as "luck".
I've personally known two individuals who went from almost nothing to
millions, and much of their success was a result of starting a certain
business at exactly the right time. In both cases they has little in
the way of assets and knowledge of the business.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Oct 20, 7:58*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:39:38 -0400, Wayne.B





wrote:
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:54:26 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

And what about those who plan
and plan, and spend years researching, do all possible to eliminate
possible failure and yet things go catastrophically bad, as an example
take Apollo 13?

1. *Some are just plain lucky (an accident waiting for a place to
happen).

2. *Some do a lot of planning but don't fully understand the risks and
issues, and what should be done to mitigate them (mostly a lack of
real world experience).

3. *Some, like Appollo 13, were calculated risks that went bad (no one
ever said that the early days of space travel were going to be totally
safe).

4. Some are cock sure arrogant and think it can't happen to them (see
item number 1).

There is no doubt in my mind that there is such a thing as "luck".
I've personally known two individuals who went from almost nothing to
millions, and much of their success was a result of starting a certain
business at exactly the right time. In both cases they has little in
the way of assets and knowledge of the business.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unlike Wilbur and bOb the two individuals you knew were at the bat
swinging.

It's not luck, they put themselves out there. Some people hit home
runs and some strike out but at least they get out there and do it,
not paralyzed because of the fear a bolt might snap and they might
fall overboard. Not to mention that
cheap fix in the boom will fail.

Got news for Nealbur...there is no failure, there are no accidents,
and there are no mistakes. They are all learning experiences and
stepping-stones. You can either roll up your sleeves and carry on, or
you can quit.

Nealbur....you're just taking up space.

Joe






..

man dies on sailboat: death by chair
 

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 20:06:53 -0700 (PDT), Joe
wrote:

It's not luck, they put themselves out there. Some people hit home
runs and some strike out but at least they get out there and do it,
not paralyzed because of the fear a bolt might snap and they might
fall overboard.

It has been said that luck and success are at the intersection of
preparation, vision, initiative and opportunity.

And then there are the "bad luck" folks who go around saying things
like: "If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all".
It makes a good song but that's about it.