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Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"you" wrote in message
... In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote: My understanding was that you had a 4 cylinder Perkins engine? 40107/4-108?? If so then you have a CV fuel injection system which uses solid copper washers under banjo fittings. Which can be reused, if you just re-anneal them.... I'm sure I once knew,. but., being afflicted with CRS, don't recall. How do I do that, again? Thanks for the tip, if I get that desperate... Meanwhile, we've been intentionally stressing the battery to pull it down today. After our movie, we were down to 11.7 volts and about 275AH down. Started right up. Immediate shutdown, switch to the new - disappointingly, much smaller footprint, a lot lighter but 1000CCA vs the prior 875 start battery we used to have but, indeed, had never used independently - and it cranked lots faster, despite, having sat for hoonose how long, only 12.1V showing; of course, it started right up, as well. This with all the useful background loads, of course, so it prolly was higher if disconnected. So, we're declaring victory and going home, so to speak. The only real remaining tests will be to let it sit for an extended period of time and see if it's slower to start due to the presumed depressurization of the #1 injector (that's the banjo in question). In the meantime, I'll explore other opportunities for locally sourced proper crush washers. L8R, y'll! Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:29:20 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:09:57 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: Why an "expensive" starter battery? Why not a common ordinary truck or auto battery. Wet cell, just check it once in a while, He's in the Bahamas and everything has to be shipped in from the US. Goodness, don't they have trucks in the Bahamas :-? Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:34:58 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:39:38 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Thanks for all the commentary and helpful hints. Aside from the pain in the wallet, my only niggle left is those banjo bolt crush washers. Fixing that will no doubt help, along with keeping my engine pan dryer! Clearly you've made some progress but don't stop working on it until it starts the first time, every time. Using WD40 or any other starting fluid is a really bad practice. I can attest to that fact from personal experience, and if he has one of the 4 cylinder Perkins (4-107/4-108) the operator's manual specifically warns against the use of starting fluids. The reason (as I discovered) is that it can blow the pre-combustion chambers into the cylinder which causes loud, expensive, noises. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:09:57 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote: On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:39:38 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Hi, Gang, Trying to insert info to either satisfy curiosiity or squelch criticsims from the many barbs (and also to fill in blanks on the helpful ones) slung at me along the way, here's how it all worked out: I have an 880 AH house bank and a Group 27 marine deep-discharge starting battery. They are connected to a Blue Sea switch. I have 4 total sources of potential charging - Wind, Solar, 110A alternator and 70A inverter charger (energized by shore power, very rarely at a dock, or through a Honda eu2000i). All charging sources are in good condition. As we nearly never run the diesel, the other three are the usual charging sources. All connections were inspected and tightened, and if it looked warranted, removed first and burnished before replacement. Some of the connection points were able to be tightened further than they were. At least one of them, despite no movement possible without fear of breaking either lugs, mounting posts or wire, proved to be useful, as the battery thingy (how's *that* for scientific) discussed at length here in the past, designed to pulse the battery to minimize or even cure sulfation, has not winked at me for as long as I can remember - it does, now. So, either at the battery end or the positive charging buss, tightening helped. Despite that, nothing seemed to improve matters. Removing the wiring from the switch, and then metering between the posts in all positions either had no resistance or infinite resistance, as appropriate. However, it was noted that the switch was miswired during installation by my electrical contractor of the time, name left out to protect the innocent. The start lead was on the start battery post. Thus, it was never able to be isolated from the starter battery. It was moved to the common, allowing isolation when in "off" or "House" mode. In "all" or "Start" mode, energy would be delivered to the starter through the starter battery, or through the house battery if in "House" or "all" mode. That wasn't a full cure. The engine would start on the house bank, but only with a shot of WD40 as encouragement. Of course, once started, it was much more compliant with starting in subsequent attempts without that boost. Still, it was reluctant to start on the house or start battery alone. Off comes the starter. Turns out that the brushes COULD stand replacement. More significantly, the ground straps to them are held in by self-tapping screws. One of them was loose. New brushes and a replacement, longer (to overcome the stripped tapered end of the loose one) machine screw assured a better connection - "Dad's Chandlery" to the rescue! While I had it out, I got the numbers off it so I can get a replacement when I'm back in the states. I'll save the one I have as a spare, but not before I have the commutator turned. Like every brushed motor, there was some lip on it, but, significantly, not all the way around. The one with the loose screw likely caused it to stop in the same place each time and, as well, not have as much energy at that part on the commutator during startup (of the starter), thus preventing as much wear as the rest of it... Sure enough, the starter was a great deal happier after reinstallation. Voltage drops during cranking (fuel off) were the same at the batteries and the starter, so the wiring was OK. However, a mere "clunk" happened when trying to start on just the start battery; the house bank turned it somewhat slowly. That's what led to the exercise with the switch, shown above out of sequence in the troubleshooting. Well, dang. Pry open the non-serviceable cells and stick hydrometer in the plenty-full cells. Sure enough, a bad cell. Didn't bother to do all of them :{)) I cringe to think of what my still-under-warranty (of course, not here) 80 buck battery will cost to replace. The guy I sold my spare injectors to also had to replace his, so I expect I'll be in for a similar 300 or so for mine. My electrical wizard (Andrew, if you're ever in the Abacos, is widely recognized as the guy who, if there's a wire attached to it, can figure it out, fix it, or make it work, if it's not destroyed) assures me that a new battery will easily start this engine. So, back to NAPA/AID tomorrow for another battery. Meanwhile, I've had an annoying drip of diesel fuel at a banjo bolt in the injector pump. Not a flow, not a squirt, but a drip, over time. Analysis has it that is why a shot of WD40 let it start immediately - it had depressurized, and turning it over to start took longer than it should to bring it back to full pressure. Finding crush washers for this banjo bolt will be interesting, but our dear friends who've just sold their boat finally used copper washers instead of the aluminum ones when they faced about the same problem in the Caribbean; perhaps, even though there are currently no aluminum washers to be found, I can find some copper ones. I've previously tightened that bolt to the degree that I feared I'd do one of my Sampson routines and break it, as I have done on so many other bolts; I'd be really in it if that happened, so didn't push it. I'm sure that will help. My understanding was that you had a 4 cylinder Perkins engine? 40107/4-108?? If so then you have a CV fuel injection system which uses solid copper washers under banjo fittings. Correction. I should have written CAV, not CV. As a final test, we ran the battery down (it had shown slap full all day, as it started full when we began, and the wind and sun kept up with the loads we had on) by running the microwave and all the other AC devices we could find, and all the DC loads we could turn on. When the voltage had dropped to 12, and the amphours were down over 50, we energized the alternator, pushed back in the fuel shutoff (enabling fuel), and hit the start button. Vrroooom! on "both" "Clunk" on the starter battery (no surprise). RRRVrroooom! on the house bank. Andrew first did all the things I'd already done, and was beginning to get frustrated, despite allowing that he had a similar patience quotient to mine. It was then that the starter came off, the connections were tightened to the degree I was concerned for breakage and, significantly, the starter lead moved to the common point from the start battery point on the switch. Those were the differences from what I'd already done. 2.5 hours, including doing the checks I'd done, and he was outta here (not counting the time he went back ashore to pay some bills while I went to NAPA for the brushes, of which I got two sets so can do this again if I need to). In all this, he was cheerful, instructive (not minding my looking over his shoulder to learn along the way) and accepting of, or needing, my help. I confess to having dug out my remote starter switch as it got a bit tiresome to run up and down the companionway for each start sequence, but that aside, we got along famously. So, absent only the final proof that the new, presumed outrageously expensive, starter battery will, in fact, start the diesel, I'd say we'd put that one to bed. I'll do some further testing later by intentionally letting the battery bank get low and seeing if it will start that way, before we head south. I've got a bunch of to-do's so I'll be occupied for a few days, anyway. However, given the drain we put on as a test, I will be astounded if it doesn't kick right off. Why an "expensive" starter battery? Why not a common ordinary truck or auto battery. Wet cell, just check it once in a while, Thanks for all the commentary and helpful hints. Aside from the pain in the wallet, my only niggle left is those banjo bolt crush washers. Fixing that will no doubt help, along with keeping my engine pan dryer! L8R, y'all! Skip Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"Bob" wrote in message
... I have 4 total sources of potential charging - Wind, Solar, 110A alternator and 70A inverter charger (energized by shore power, very rarely at a dock, or through a Honda eu2000i). Skip I have diagnosed your problme and offer a recomendation: I had no idea you had so much **** on your boat Skip. 1) Git rid of the wind and solar and inverter and all the wire/ connections/switches magic computer board regulators associated. 2) Increase your house bank to 2000 Ah. 3) Get a dedicated hard wired generator. (I think a CAT 3406 would be sized apprpreatly for your needs. add sarcasam as needed) The reason you have so many problmes is cause you have so many recreational electrical systems on board. I wont even ask about your refer/computer/home entertainment system/ dishwahser/blender/ microwave systems and fubar switching mechanisms...... 4) Rip all your chargin systems out! Get a real generator end of story.In other words go get a nice 10 year old 70 foot gulf shrimper. youll pay about 200,000 after a little refit. Then you can have all the do dads you want. **** you can light up the sky like the rest of those gom gooks. Your attempting to make a sailing yacht into a 2500 sq ft ranch home and now your finding just how difficult balancing complex systems can become. K.I.S.S. BoB PS CHrist you must enjoy wasting your life f-ing around with non- necessary tasks :/ Try volunteering someplace to make this a better world instead of wasting your life chasing down endless self created bugs. Well, lessee... I'm the morning cruiser's net anchor We do the Buck A Book store while we're in Abaco, benefitting the extremely endangered Wild Horses of Abaco (see website by that name, or Arkwild, for elucidation {no apologies for erudition, here}) We do other public service stuff in other areas where there are cruiser concentrations. We volunteer individually with other cruisers Note bene: the 'we' above is mostly me... The "private" stuff we do will go unmentioned to protect the beneficiaries, who, I'm sure, would rather not have folks know we're doing it. Which, BTW, is why we couldn't possibly buy the 200K vessel you suggest as more appropriate to our lifestyle :{)) L8R Skip PS we took OUT our genset (along with the AC which came with the boat) at just a little more than 500 hours on it, because we couldn't stand the noise in the couple times, total, we ran it, despite it having a hush box on it. We hardly want a stinkpot, let alone a genset which would make it possible to water ski behind our home, were it the propulsion unit! And, the problems identified and solved aside, we actually have a very well balanced system. And, FWIW, just cuz we were curious for other reasons and looked today, we've run the aux a total of 50 hours in the last 9 months... Unlike your suggestion, for which I couldn't even BUY fuel, we're a sailboat, after all... -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/Referenc...m-washers.aspx
PS: I just use a magic marker on aluminum, Color it black - and burn the black off (use a propane torch!) RL Better to re-anneal the washer if you are going to re-use it. Why? - When you 'work' copper or aluminium, it goes hard. Tightening an oil-drain plug against a washer 'works' the metal. 'Annealing' means 'making it soft so it deforms again'. Here's how.... Grab 2 pairs of pointy-nose pliers. Wipe any oil/grit off the washer and take it into the kitchen. Erm, you do have a gas cooker, don't you ? (Alternatively, gas welding kit; blowtorch; or some other source of safe flame. A cigarette lighter isn't enough heat, a hot air gun won't do it either. A gas cooker is the thing you want. A camping stove will do.) You need to get it hot enough, but obviously not melt it: Copper: which you recognise because it is copper-coloured. You need to get copper 'dull red'. Dull Red is one of those technical terms engineers use. It just means roast it until it glows a dull red. In order, as you heat metal, it goes: * slightly reddish tinge - this isn't hot enough to do anything * dull red * cherry red - properly 'red', but somewhere less than orange * orangey-yellow - way further than you need to go * white-hot - its about to melt, stop it. Aluminium: which is not copper-coloured, it is grey. Wipe washing up liquid on it. When you heat this, it boils, then burns to a black deposit. That's the heat at which its done. (Alternatively, you can cover it with soot from a sooty flame, then when this soot burns off, you are done. But Fairy Liquid is easier.) So, using one pair of pointy-nose pliers, hold the washer in the flame until you get to the temperature you want. Then hold it by the other side, so you can heat the bit that was under the pliers. Heat it as evenly as you can, and for something as small as a washer, it can take as little as seconds, so pay attention. Once it has been cooked all over, let it cool down naturally. You don't need to quench it in water or anything. Note well. You want 2 pairs of pliers. ITS GOING TO BE HOT, so you don't want to touch it with your fingers. DO NOT let it touch exposed skin. DO NOT lay it on the kitchen table to cool down. And that's it, your washer is 're-annealed'. Brush off any sooty deposits, refit it to the bike and it will form itself to a tight seal again. You can stand back and feel all smug and pleased with yourself :) Footnotes: Did you burn yourself, you muppet? Stick the burn under the cold tap for 10 minutes. Butter is an old wives' tale and doesn't help. Leave it under the tap as long as you can stand, at least some minutes. Broken skin, treat with antiseptic cream and a sticking plaster. You don't want to re-anneal washers more than a few times. The metal will take it, but after you've softened and squished it a few times, it's probably getting a bit thin and deformed. It may start to be loose on the drain plug, so it may not be seating against the faces the manufacturer meant it to. If you notice this, get new washers for the next oil change. This annealing process works for copper and aluminium washers. In fact, the process is the same for any non-ferrous (non-steel) metal. Copper or Aluminium are what your oil-plug drain washers will be made of..... ......unless you have a really old bike which might have fibre washers (look like reddy-orange fibreglass, hard felt, or tarry cloth). Just re-use until they crumble. ......or what are often known as 'Dowty Washers', metal washers with a rubber insert. Re-use until the rubber becomes worn, damaged, or hardened with heat/age. You do not need to anneal new washers. They come out of the manufacturing process soft and ductile. You only need to re-anneal used washers that have been worked. If you are doing a copper gasket as opposed to a washer, perhaps a cylinder head gasket, some people like to cool by quenching in water. Drop it in edge first for quick, even quenching. Quenching isn't strictly necessary, the rate of cooling makes no difference to the resulting softness. For something as mission-critical as a head gasket, you only want to re-use it in an emergency, but it would certainly help the seal if you can re-anneal. The annealing process does not soften steel washers. If you heat and cool steel - it gets hard and brittle. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:34:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:39:38 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Thanks for all the commentary and helpful hints. Aside from the pain in the wallet, my only niggle left is those banjo bolt crush washers. Fixing that will no doubt help, along with keeping my engine pan dryer! Clearly you've made some progress but don't stop working on it until it starts the first time, every time. Using WD40 or any other starting fluid is a really bad practice. I can attest to that fact from personal experience, and if he has one of the 4 cylinder Perkins (4-107/4-108) the operator's manual specifically warns against the use of starting fluids. The reason (as I discovered) is that it can blow the pre-combustion chambers into the cylinder which causes loud, expensive, noises. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) Spray it on a rag and the the engine sniff the rag while cranking. Avoids the loud expensive noises... -- Richard Lamb email me: web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:08:12 -0700, Peter Bennett
wrote: On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:39:38 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote: Hi, Gang, Trying to insert info to either satisfy curiosiity or squelch criticsims from the many barbs (and also to fill in blanks on the helpful ones) slung at me along the way, here's how it all worked out: I have an 880 AH house bank and a Group 27 marine deep-discharge starting battery. They are connected to a Blue Sea switch. I have 4 total sources of potential charging - Wind, Solar, 110A alternator and 70A inverter charger (energized by shore power, very rarely at a dock, or through a Honda eu2000i). You should use a "starting" battery for your starting battery, not a deep-cycle. A starting battery has many thin plates, allowing it to deliver the very high currents required for starting, but making it less tolerant of frequent deep discharges. A deep-cycle battery has fewer thick plates which makes it much more tolerant of deep discharge cycles, but, less able to deliver the large currents required for starting. What you say is technically correct.... however I used deep cycle batteries to start the auxiliary engine on my sailboat for nearly 15 years without problems. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... "you" wrote in message ... In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote: My understanding was that you had a 4 cylinder Perkins engine? 40107/4-108?? If so then you have a CV fuel injection system which uses solid copper washers under banjo fittings. Which can be reused, if you just re-anneal them.... I'm sure I once knew,. but., being afflicted with CRS, don't recall. How do I do that, again? Thanks for the tip, if I get that desperate... Meanwhile, we've been intentionally stressing the battery to pull it down today. After our movie, we were down to 11.7 volts and about 275AH down. Started right up. Immediate shutdown, switch to the new - disappointingly, much smaller footprint, a lot lighter but 1000CCA vs the prior 875 start battery we used to have but, indeed, had never used independently - and it cranked lots faster, despite, having sat for hoonose how long, only 12.1V showing; of course, it started right up, as well. This with all the useful background loads, of course, so it prolly was higher if disconnected. So, we're declaring victory and going home, so to speak. The only real remaining tests will be to let it sit for an extended period of time and see if it's slower to start due to the presumed depressurization of the #1 injector (that's the banjo in question). In the meantime, I'll explore other opportunities for locally sourced proper crush washers. Ha ha ha. I think you're barking up the wrong tree blaming the batteries/electrical system. Don't blame the leak at the banjo bolt either. Blame the injector itself. It's probably gone bad and is leaking down and too much raw diesel which normally pressurizes the fuel system is flooding the cylinder, raising the compression making it difficult for any battery to turn the piece of that troublesome, crap diesel engine over. I hope this helps. Wilbur Hubbard |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:44:46 -0800, you wrote:
In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote: My understanding was that you had a 4 cylinder Perkins engine? 40107/4-108?? If so then you have a CV fuel injection system which uses solid copper washers under banjo fittings. Which can be reused, if you just re-anneal them.... Providing that you didn't drop them down in the bilge when you took them out :-) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:51:52 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: Doing a bit of cat'ing he "Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message .. . . My understanding was that you had a 4 cylinder Perkins engine? 40107/4-108?? If so then you have a CV fuel injection system which uses solid copper washers under banjo fittings. Yes, that's (CV - actually, I think it's CAV) what we have, but it's a 4-154. However, I leapt to the conclusion that they were aluminum, as that's the case on the return banjos on the injectors. None the less, AID/NAPA doesn't have them. I'm trying local boat yards next, and a buddy boat next to me in the harbor thinks he might have them for his 4-236; maybe they're the right size. Also check with any Japanese diesel places as many of the Japanese engines use copper sealing washers. Why an "expensive" starter battery? Why not a common ordinary truck or auto battery. Wet cell, just check it once in a while, $218 for a marine 1000CCA, see response about expensive in the Bahamas earlier. I have a size limitation for where it can mount of 6.75" depth (height and length don't matter) which makes truck batteries problematic, even if they did (when I go to NAPA) have adapters to make a screw post. However, I'm checking that out before I give up and cough up for a marine one... That is expensive! I use common, ordinary, truck batteries and if the difference in price is what it appears to be I'd build a new battery box :-) If I'm not mistaken you have a 4D battery - about 20 X 8 X 9 inches. About what every truck has two of :-) and... "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . Clearly you've made some progress but don't stop working on it until it starts the first time, every time. Using WD40 or any other starting fluid is a really bad practice. Ya, I know. Just a test at the time. I'm intentionally running down the house bank (yet to go get one of those expensive start batteries); so far it's kicked right off at 80, 120, and 160AH down - the only time of spritzing was that single instance. That was just to see if it would turn over at all... Meanwhile, for when I get back to the states, where's the best price on a new (I'm keeping the old one for a spare) for a Delco 1107587 or equivalent? Most of what I see is much smaller, with external (not as big on the inside, therefore, meaning fewer horses and less life, as far as I'm concerned) bolts rather than internal like the above... L8R, yall Skip, off to find another oil evacuation drill-driven pump as mine has quit and the new spare I had doesn't work at all. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
Come on, Wilbur...
Pay attention! "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message news:4cca1add$0 Ha ha ha. I think you're barking up the wrong tree blaming the batteries/electrical system. As it starts just fine with the bank well depleted, and much faster with the somewhat depleted new start battery (you DO know that all wet cells self-discharge over time, right?). Batteries were arguably the problem, along with the starter brushes; that's no longer a problem. Don't blame the leak at the banjo bolt either. Blame the injector itself. It's probably gone bad and is leaking down and too much raw diesel which normally pressurizes the fuel system is flooding the cylinder, raising the compression making it difficult for any battery to turn the piece of that troublesome, crap diesel engine over. Read for content, Wilbur. The banjo in question is at the injector PUMP, not the return (the only banjo on the injector) line. A leaking injector would not cause a drip at the banjo bolt on the pump. In any case, at least as I understand injectors, because they require huge pressure to discharge, and withstand huge compression pressures, it's unlikely to leak there. MAYBE not fire cuz it's clogged - but not leak. In any case, unless you're afflicted with CRS (not surprising at your age), you'll recall these are new in the winter, so, unlikley to have suffered any of those problems. L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"WaIIy" wrote in message
... Skip, you might want to consider ignoring Bob. He just baits you and you chomp at the bait. There is no need to justify yourself, your boat, your actions or your way of life. Just my two cents. Hi, and thanks for the note. I know reasonably much about Bob and Wilbur :{)) Much of the time I do ignore it. However, I try to be instructive in my responses, thinking of those who might be considering our lifestyle. I learned a great deal from rbc before it got messy (well, mostly messy - Neal and Jax and Harry contributed in the early days, but there was a considerably higher signal to noise ratio then). The others, I just pull his chain right back, or, in the case of Wilbur, let him know that I'm not going to play - for which he admires me, albeit disappointed that I wasn't among those who did knee-jerk - or, again, perhaps elucidate (there's that erudition that Bob hates so much, again!) for educational purposes of those such as I who, due to the current atmosphere, are hesitant to jump in the pool.. L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
Skip, you might want to consider ignoring Bob.
He just baits you and you chomp at the bait. There is no need to justify yourself, your boat, your actions or your way of life. Just my two cents. Hello Wally, I may not be the bet typist or speller. But please do not toss the baby out with the bath water. I do bring light to an important conversation here. Moving or living on water is many things to many people. Some chose to day sail on warm lakes while others sail a stout 39' Freya to the northern passage single handed (see Spindler's Lat 38). I support each of the former. Ive also seen a 22' travel trailer set on plywood and oil drums with an outboard and state registration. I also suppot that persons creative way to find a cheep life on the water. Ive enjoyed the company and conversation of all types of mariners. HOwever, I will not tollerate those who claim to be one thing yet are obviously another. Some call those phony posers. I respect honesty. When I read a person claiming to be a "blue water cruiser" yet I read of the actions of a buffoon I belive it is my responsibility to call attention to the absurdity. I do not want a person considering blue water sailing, visit RBC for guidance, and get the impression logs of the yacht Flying Pig is something follow as a model. bOb |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
Hi, boob, and list,
"Bob" wrote in message ... I respect honesty. Then, no doubt, you're thrilled with my candor in reporting our gaffes... :{)) When I read a person claiming to be a "blue water cruiser" yet I read of the actions of a buffoon I belive it is my responsibility to call attention to the absurdity. I do not want a person considering blue water sailing, visit RBC for guidance, and get the impression logs of the yacht Flying Pig is something follow as a model. I only play low brass; never in my life have I played the the buffoon. I also, now, play the modified shell in several acoustic ranges, some with upper brass mouthpieces to enhance range and harmonics. Rarely do you hear the Lone Ranger Theme from the Overture to the opera "William Tell" played on a large triton shell, but you may, if you're anchored near us. I guess it's fair to say that I now am guilty of all ranges of brass, both auditory and in print :{)) Whether or not someone would care to use me as a model (who'd want to think that the "daily crisis" - as one of our sisterships' owners called the things which happen aboard - was what they had to look forward to?), it could be instructive in either avoidance (the goofs) or emulation (the good parts, obviously). And, in point of fact, I've received numerous letters off list both thanking me for the candor, taking them as a learning experience (there but for the grace of God, etc.), and saying that what we're doing (out living the life, no shoreside financial or physical entanglements; emotional is another story!) is what they hope to do some day. YMobviouslyVs... L8R Skip, retuning the rig and, with any luck swapping out the spreader tractors for LEDs, today -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:04:52 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: And, in point of fact, I've received numerous letters off list both thanking me for the candor, taking them as a learning experience (there but for the grace of God, etc.), and saying that what we're doing (out living the life, no shoreside financial or physical entanglements Yes, talking openly about goofs and issues is a good thing. I should probably do more of it but modesty prevents describing some of our more egregious moments lest we be accused of boasting and one-upmanship. :-) At this point we are almost done working our way through a 50 item issues list of things that needed attention after 6 months in the Caribbean. You've picked a good place to hang out also, Marsh Harbour being one of our favorites. We used to know a couple that hung out there every winter aboard a powerboat called "Slainte" which is the name of an Irish drinking toast. Do you know if they are still around? If I recall correctly, their names are John and Melonie. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 10/31/10 10:04 AM, Flying Pig wrote:
Hi, boob, and list, wrote in message ... I respect honesty. Then, no doubt, you're thrilled with my candor in reporting our gaffes... :{)) When I read a person claiming to be a "blue water cruiser" yet I read of the actions of a buffoon I belive it is my responsibility to call attention to the absurdity. I do not want a person considering blue water sailing, visit RBC for guidance, and get the impression logs of the yacht Flying Pig is something follow as a model. I only play low brass; never in my life have I played the the buffoon. I also, now, play the modified shell in several acoustic ranges, some with upper brass mouthpieces to enhance range and harmonics. Rarely do you hear the Lone Ranger Theme from the Overture to the opera "William Tell" played on a large triton shell, but you may, if you're anchored near us. I guess it's fair to say that I now am guilty of all ranges of brass, both auditory and in print :{)) Whether or not someone would care to use me as a model (who'd want to think that the "daily crisis" - as one of our sisterships' owners called the things which happen aboard - was what they had to look forward to?), it could be instructive in either avoidance (the goofs) or emulation (the good parts, obviously). And, in point of fact, I've received numerous letters off list both thanking me for the candor, taking them as a learning experience (there but for the grace of God, etc.), and saying that what we're doing (out living the life, no shoreside financial or physical entanglements; emotional is another story!) is what they hope to do some day. YMobviouslyVs... L8R Skip, retuning the rig and, with any luck swapping out the spreader tractors for LEDs, today Best advice I have: pay very little if any attention to the overly critical. Whatever "model" you are following seems to work for the two of you and that's all that really counts. If it ever doesn't work, you can make whatever changes you feel are necessary. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 10/31/10 1:22 PM, HarryK wrote:
On 10/31/10 10:04 AM, Flying Pig wrote: Hi, boob, and list, wrote in message ... I respect honesty. Then, no doubt, you're thrilled with my candor in reporting our gaffes... :{)) When I read a person claiming to be a "blue water cruiser" yet I read of the actions of a buffoon I belive it is my responsibility to call attention to the absurdity. I do not want a person considering blue water sailing, visit RBC for guidance, and get the impression logs of the yacht Flying Pig is something follow as a model. I only play low brass; never in my life have I played the the buffoon. I also, now, play the modified shell in several acoustic ranges, some with upper brass mouthpieces to enhance range and harmonics. Rarely do you hear the Lone Ranger Theme from the Overture to the opera "William Tell" played on a large triton shell, but you may, if you're anchored near us. I guess it's fair to say that I now am guilty of all ranges of brass, both auditory and in print :{)) Whether or not someone would care to use me as a model (who'd want to think that the "daily crisis" - as one of our sisterships' owners called the things which happen aboard - was what they had to look forward to?), it could be instructive in either avoidance (the goofs) or emulation (the good parts, obviously). And, in point of fact, I've received numerous letters off list both thanking me for the candor, taking them as a learning experience (there but for the grace of God, etc.), and saying that what we're doing (out living the life, no shoreside financial or physical entanglements; emotional is another story!) is what they hope to do some day. YMobviouslyVs... L8R Skip, retuning the rig and, with any luck swapping out the spreader tractors for LEDs, today Best advice I have: pay very little if any attention to the overly critical. Whatever "model" you are following seems to work for the two of you and that's all that really counts. If it ever doesn't work, you can make whatever changes you feel are necessary. Forgot to add: Super Mario Buffoon Players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gXh83hNnWw |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
In article , Flying Pig wrote:
Hi, boob, and list, "Bob" wrote in message ... I respect honesty. Then, no doubt, you're thrilled with my candor in reporting our gaffes... :{)) Whether or not someone would care to use me as a model (who'd want to think that the "daily crisis" - as one of our sisterships' owners called the things which happen aboard - was what they had to look forward to?), it could be instructive in either avoidance (the goofs) or emulation (the good parts, obviously). It's been stated many times that cruising is fixing your boat in exotic places, by that definition you're definitely doing it! Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"Justin C" wrote in message
... In article , Flying Pig wrote: Hi, boob, and list, "Bob" wrote in message ... I respect honesty. Then, no doubt, you're thrilled with my candor in reporting our gaffes... :{)) Whether or not someone would care to use me as a model (who'd want to think that the "daily crisis" - as one of our sisterships' owners called the things which happen aboard - was what they had to look forward to?), it could be instructive in either avoidance (the goofs) or emulation (the good parts, obviously). It's been stated many times that cruising is fixing your boat in exotic places, by that definition you're definitely doing it! It has been *erroneously* stated by those who haven't sufficient wit to figure out what cruising really is all about. It is now used to justify, rationalize and glamorize ineptitude, sloth and cluelessness by this same bunch of losers. Wilbur Hubbard |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/1/10 6:13 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Justin wrote in message ... In , Flying Pig wrote: Hi, boob, and list, wrote in message ... I respect honesty. Then, no doubt, you're thrilled with my candor in reporting our gaffes... :{)) Whether or not someone would care to use me as a model (who'd want to think that the "daily crisis" - as one of our sisterships' owners called the things which happen aboard - was what they had to look forward to?), it could be instructive in either avoidance (the goofs) or emulation (the good parts, obviously). It's been stated many times that cruising is fixing your boat in exotic places, by that definition you're definitely doing it! It has been *erroneously* stated by those who haven't sufficient wit to figure out what cruising really is all about. It is now used to justify, rationalize and glamorize ineptitude, sloth and cluelessness by this same bunch of losers. Wilbur Hubbard Are you a refugee from septic tank known as rec.boats, Wilbur? Please tell me..."what cruising really is all about." We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. Going from point A to point B without creating a potential hazard or harm to self or others. Spending money and wasting time in port fixing things is not cruising. that saying about fixing things in distant ports is a joke you idiots,,,, its not a way of life..... it like saying, a successfull marrage is 50 years of hurtful cruelty and lonleness only folowed by death! Nor is cruising operating a vessel in a way that creates a hazard to others (as in: no body at watch while underway) Would you say flying cross country in a crashed home built aircraft and "repaired" by someone who was never a licensed pilot and lacked any mechanical skills hoped to fly cross country because it was his life long dream. WOuld that be a good a good idea? Would you really go for a flight with a guy who operated a homebuilt like SKip runs his boat and call it a safe thing to do? Dont get me wrong I enjoy his reading parts of his posts but probably for the not for th esame reasons some do here.. But I would never call fixing stuff on boats cruising especially since there is not reason for it. Ive met many a cruisers who spend a few hours a month PREVENTING events not fixing failures. Its a whole different mind set. No,, Skip is not cruising.... he is learning about boats for the first time something that most sucessful mariners do at ages 8-12. The problme is that skip has waaaaaay toooo much boat for his skill set. Skip remidns me of a nice good natured hillbilly. He's a nice guy but I would stay clear until he learns a few things. But sadly his self concept will not alow him accept the paradox he has created. That is how do you cruise and have all the amminities of a 3500 sq ft ranch house. He sorta remids me of Jed Clampet and the HIllibillies. You know. So much welath but not knowing what the billyard table is really designed to do..Maybe Hillbilly is the wrong name...... I think skip is a Squidbilly! Bob |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/2/10 2:38 AM, Bob wrote:
We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. Going from point A to point B without creating a potential hazard or harm to self or others. Spending money and wasting time in port fixing things is not cruising. that saying about fixing things in distant ports is a joke you idiots,,,, its not a way of life..... it like saying, a successfull marrage is 50 years of hurtful cruelty and lonleness only folowed by death! Nor is cruising operating a vessel in a way that creates a hazard to others (as in: no body at watch while underway) Would you say flying cross country in a crashed home built aircraft and "repaired" by someone who was never a licensed pilot and lacked any mechanical skills hoped to fly cross country because it was his life long dream. WOuld that be a good a good idea? Would you really go for a flight with a guy who operated a homebuilt like SKip runs his boat and call it a safe thing to do? Dont get me wrong I enjoy his reading parts of his posts but probably for the not for th esame reasons some do here.. But I would never call fixing stuff on boats cruising especially since there is not reason for it. Ive met many a cruisers who spend a few hours a month PREVENTING events not fixing failures. Its a whole different mind set. No,, Skip is not cruising.... he is learning about boats for the first time something that most sucessful mariners do at ages 8-12. The problme is that skip has waaaaaay toooo much boat for his skill set. Skip remidns me of a nice good natured hillbilly. He's a nice guy but I would stay clear until he learns a few things. But sadly his self concept will not alow him accept the paradox he has created. That is how do you cruise and have all the amminities of a 3500 sq ft ranch house. He sorta remids me of Jed Clampet and the HIllibillies. You know. So much welath but not knowing what the billyard table is really designed to do..Maybe Hillbilly is the wrong name...... I think skip is a Squidbilly! Bob I'm sorry, but if you included a long list of what "cruising is" in your harangue of Skip, I missed it. Could you repost it? From those posts of Skip's I've read, my take is that he had a somewhat limited knowledge of boating when he started, that he has been "cruising" and rebuilding much of his old boat along the way, that he is a far more experienced "boater/cruiser" than when he started and, unlike most of the posters here, is out on the seas, "cruising" from one port to another without a particular schedule. I've been boating for six decades on all sorts of boats, power and sail. I've done enough boating to know that the liveaboard lifestyle or long-range cruising is not my cup of tea. If I want to cross an ocean on a boat, the boat is going to be the Queen Mary II, or maybe a week or two of island hopping in the Caribbean or among the Greek Isles. I do enjoy reading about the boating adventures of others, though, especially when the "others" are not stuck-up snobs with overinflated opinions of themselves or their "cruising." Now, as I stated, we bought a new boat and we will be taking short trips on it. So, I take it we won't actually be "cruising," right? :) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"HarryK" wrote in message
... snip Please tell me..."what cruising really is all about." We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. I shall be delighted to do so: (rules about what cruising is all about listed in order of importance) 1) Cruising is a planned, uneventful, private and successful voyage from one venue to another that takes into consideration the vessel, the crew, the weather, the water, the stuff upon which the water lies and the hard stuff around the edges of the water. 2) Cruising under sail is doing the above without using the motor unless the wind dies completely. 3) When cruising you should remain as inconspicuous as possible at all times. This includes while underway and entering and exiting ports of call. This also includes anchoring. If anybody's head pops out of a nearby companionway or hatch to see what all the commotion is about as you pass by or anchor you are doing something wrong. 4) The same can be said about when you are getting under way. 5) When you're anchored don't run a portable generator. Don't run your diesel at all unless there is an emergency and unless you are downwind of EVERYBODY (diesel fumes go a long way downwind and are sickening and unhealthy to breathe). Put a strap on that noisy wind generator in an anchorage. If you need terawatts of electricity then stop being an obnoxious skinflint with your noisy Honda portables and cheapass wind generators whooshing and whistling and grinding away. Purchase and install a water-cooled, inboard diesel generator and use it instead because they are acceptable quiet but never use it upwind of anybody else. 6) Idle speed only when using your dinghy. Better yet, get your fat ass in shape and use a rowing dinghy. 7) Leave the barking dogs and crying babies at home. 8) Cruising should be done for its own sake. If you can't enjoy cruising without conducting a running dialog via the internet or telephone the whole time, you aren't cruising - you're showing off or trying to show off and you're making a pain in the ass out of yourself. 9) Cruisers are self-reliant. Never expect to be rescued. Don't ever call for a rescue unless you're gonna die without a rescue. And, if you're gonna die, think twice about calling for a rescue as the fact that you're gonna die probably means you deserve to die because you've been too stupid to live. 10) Go cruising. Shut up about it. Don't bother anybody else when you're cruising. Wilbur Hubbard |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/2/10 2:02 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
wrote in message ... snip Please tell me..."what cruising really is all about." We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. I shall be delighted to do so: (rules about what cruising is all about listed in order of importance) 1) Cruising is a planned, uneventful, private and successful voyage from one venue to another that takes into consideration the vessel, the crew, the weather, the water, the stuff upon which the water lies and the hard stuff around the edges of the water. Agreed, for any sort of boating. 2) Cruising under sail is doing the above without using the motor unless the wind dies completely. 3) When cruising you should remain as inconspicuous as possible at all times. This includes while underway and entering and exiting ports of call. This also includes anchoring. If anybody's head pops out of a nearby companionway or hatch to see what all the commotion is about as you pass by or anchor you are doing something wrong. Not necessarily. 4) The same can be said about when you are getting under way. Agreed. 5) When you're anchored don't run a portable generator. Don't run your diesel at all unless there is an emergency and unless you are downwind of EVERYBODY (diesel fumes go a long way downwind and are sickening and unhealthy to breathe). Put a strap on that noisy wind generator in an anchorage. If you need terawatts of electricity then stop being an obnoxious skinflint with your noisy Honda portables and cheapass wind generators whooshing and whistling and grinding away. Purchase and install a water-cooled, inboard diesel generator and use it instead because they are acceptable quiet but never use it upwind of anybody else. Fortunately, we have a water-cooled, diesel generator. 6) Idle speed only when using your dinghy. Better yet, get your fat ass in shape and use a rowing dinghy. Agreed, especially the latter. I'm in the market for an inflatable dink that actually will row nicely. Probably aren't any. 7) Leave the barking dogs and crying babies at home. Leave the dogs at home, drown the crying babies! :) 8) Cruising should be done for its own sake. If you can't enjoy cruising without conducting a running dialog via the internet or telephone the whole time, you aren't cruising - you're showing off or trying to show off and you're making a pain in the ass out of yourself. Sometimes. 9) Cruisers are self-reliant. Never expect to be rescued. Don't ever call for a rescue unless you're gonna die without a rescue. And, if you're gonna die, think twice about calling for a rescue as the fact that you're gonna die probably means you deserve to die because you've been too stupid to live. 10) Go cruising. Shut up about it. Don't bother anybody else when you're cruising. Wilbur Hubbard I don't think you'd be a lot of fun on a cruise, Wilbur. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"HarryK" wrote in message
... On 11/2/10 2:02 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message ... snip Please tell me..."what cruising really is all about." We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. I shall be delighted to do so: (rules about what cruising is all about listed in order of importance) 1) Cruising is a planned, uneventful, private and successful voyage from one venue to another that takes into consideration the vessel, the crew, the weather, the water, the stuff upon which the water lies and the hard stuff around the edges of the water. Agreed, for any sort of boating. 2) Cruising under sail is doing the above without using the motor unless the wind dies completely. 3) When cruising you should remain as inconspicuous as possible at all times. This includes while underway and entering and exiting ports of call. This also includes anchoring. If anybody's head pops out of a nearby companionway or hatch to see what all the commotion is about as you pass by or anchor you are doing something wrong. Not necessarily. 4) The same can be said about when you are getting under way. Agreed. 5) When you're anchored don't run a portable generator. Don't run your diesel at all unless there is an emergency and unless you are downwind of EVERYBODY (diesel fumes go a long way downwind and are sickening and unhealthy to breathe). Put a strap on that noisy wind generator in an anchorage. If you need terawatts of electricity then stop being an obnoxious skinflint with your noisy Honda portables and cheapass wind generators whooshing and whistling and grinding away. Purchase and install a water-cooled, inboard diesel generator and use it instead because they are acceptable quiet but never use it upwind of anybody else. Fortunately, we have a water-cooled, diesel generator. 6) Idle speed only when using your dinghy. Better yet, get your fat ass in shape and use a rowing dinghy. Agreed, especially the latter. I'm in the market for an inflatable dink that actually will row nicely. Probably aren't any. 7) Leave the barking dogs and crying babies at home. Leave the dogs at home, drown the crying babies! :) 8) Cruising should be done for its own sake. If you can't enjoy cruising without conducting a running dialog via the internet or telephone the whole time, you aren't cruising - you're showing off or trying to show off and you're making a pain in the ass out of yourself. Sometimes. 9) Cruisers are self-reliant. Never expect to be rescued. Don't ever call for a rescue unless you're gonna die without a rescue. And, if you're gonna die, think twice about calling for a rescue as the fact that you're gonna die probably means you deserve to die because you've been too stupid to live. 10) Go cruising. Shut up about it. Don't bother anybody else when you're cruising. Wilbur Hubbard I don't think you'd be a lot of fun on a cruise, Wilbur. If you want fun, go to the circus. Cruising isn't supposed to be 'fun'. Cruising is a serious challenge that needs to be viewed as a serious challenge. People are too stupid to consider the fact that their 'fun' usually results in misery for the next guy. Wilbur Hubbard |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/2/10 3:42 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
wrote in message I don't think you'd be a lot of fun on a cruise, Wilbur. Cruising isn't supposed to be 'fun'. Wilbur Hubbard That's just absurd, Wilbur. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"HarryK" wrote in message
... On 11/2/10 3:42 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message I don't think you'd be a lot of fun on a cruise, Wilbur. Cruising isn't supposed to be 'fun'. Wilbur Hubbard That's just absurd, Wilbur. Your reply is indicative of the sad state of affairs of sailing these days. Sailing has become "fun" as its primary attribute. With an attitude like that, is it any wonder why so many incompetent boobs are out there on the water causing disaster after disaster, scandal after scandal and folly after folly? "Satisfaction" would be a more appropriate word than "fun". Fun has a connotation of amusement like in an amusement park. Fun lacks seriousness. Cruising done well provides satisfaction. Cruising done well does not provide fun. It's too serious a pursuit and too dangerous and needs to be taken seriously or dire consequences to all concerned might be the result. Wilbur Hubbard |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/2/10 3:52 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
wrote in message ... On 11/2/10 3:42 PM, Wilbur Hubbard wrote: wrote in message I don't think you'd be a lot of fun on a cruise, Wilbur. Cruising isn't supposed to be 'fun'. Wilbur Hubbard That's just absurd, Wilbur. Your reply is indicative of the sad state of affairs of sailing these days. Sailing has become "fun" as its primary attribute. With an attitude like that, is it any wonder why so many incompetent boobs are out there on the water causing disaster after disaster, scandal after scandal and folly after folly? "Satisfaction" would be a more appropriate word than "fun". Fun has a connotation of amusement like in an amusement park. Fun lacks seriousness. Cruising done well provides satisfaction. Cruising done well does not provide fun. It's too serious a pursuit and too dangerous and needs to be taken seriously or dire consequences to all concerned might be the result. Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur, whoever you are and whatever you do, you are not qualified to argue semantics with me. Really. I have a fancy graduate degree in etymology, and have been a practicing editor and writer for decades. I know words and how they are used. Most people with sailboats, whether they cruise as you describe it or race or just putter around do it for "fun." It can be a sport, which is one of the definitions for fun. The fact that boating needs to be taken seriously does not minimize its "fun" value. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
I'm sorry, but if you included a long list of what "cruising is" in your harangue of Skip, I missed it. Could you repost it? Shure.......... We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. Going from point A to point B without creating a potential hazard or harm to self or others. Spending money and wasting time in port fixing things is not cruising. that saying about fixing things in distant ports is a joke you idiots,,,, its not a way of life..... it like saying, a successfull marrage is 50 years of hurtful cruelty and lonleness only folowed by death! Nor is cruising operating a vessel in a way that creates a hazard to others (as in: no body at watch while underway) *From those posts of Skip's I've read, my take is that he had a somewhat limited knowledge of boating when he started, that he has been "cruising" and rebuilding much of his old boat along the way, that he is a far more experienced "boater/cruiser" than when he started and, unlike most of the posters here, is out on the seas, "cruising" from one port to another without a particular schedule. wordy sentence verging on archaic voce, and, certainly, an over use of the comma. I thoght id toss that in in for free since you seem so willing to un zip ur pants for a short arm inspection. Now, as I stated, we bought a new boat and we will be taking short trips on it. So, I take it we won't actually be "cruising," right? Hell ya yll be crusing...... cause you have an accurate assesment of your behavior. Crusing is like culture its not the color of your skin its HOW YOU THINK. :) bOB PS I think I may have ya beat on degrees ;) But then again we could start a great fight does a degree make ya smart or does it only offer an opertunity to learn.... kinda like a boat ;) Time to go drink some free beer and look at some boats. Maybe I could be like skip and write a 3000 word post on what i did at the bar, explain how a "tap" works, and then fall off my bar stool explaing to the world about my beer drinking. NOw that would be a great read. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
I know words and how they are used. Then what can you say about me using my writing miscues as a guide.....? Do you see any patterns? |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/2/10 9:17 PM, Bob wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you included a long list of what "cruising is" in your harangue of Skip, I missed it. Could you repost it? Shure.......... We just bought a new boat and we plan to do some cruising, but I sure wouldn't want to break any of your rules when we do. So, please list your rules in order of importance. Going from point A to point B without creating a potential hazard or harm to self or others. Spending money and wasting time in port fixing things is not cruising. that saying about fixing things in distant ports is a joke you idiots,,,, its not a way of life..... it like saying, a successfull marrage is 50 years of hurtful cruelty and lonleness only folowed by death! Nor is cruising operating a vessel in a way that creates a hazard to others (as in: no body at watch while underway) From those posts of Skip's I've read, my take is that he had a somewhat limited knowledge of boating when he started, that he has been "cruising" and rebuilding much of his old boat along the way, that he is a far more experienced "boater/cruiser" than when he started and, unlike most of the posters here, is out on the seas, "cruising" from one port to another without a particular schedule. wordy sentence verging on archaic voce, and, certainly, an over use of the comma. I thoght id toss that in in for free since you seem so willing to un zip ur pants for a short arm inspection. Now, as I stated, we bought a new boat and we will be taking short trips on it. So, I take it we won't actually be "cruising," right? Hell ya yll be crusing...... cause you have an accurate assesment of your behavior. Crusing is like culture its not the color of your skin its HOW YOU THINK. :) bOB PS I think I may have ya beat on degrees ;) But then again we could start a great fight does a degree make ya smart or does it only offer an opertunity to learn.... kinda like a boat ;) Time to go drink some free beer and look at some boats. Maybe I could be like skip and write a 3000 word post on what i did at the bar, explain how a "tap" works, and then fall off my bar stool explaing to the world about my beer drinking. NOw that would be a great read. Lots of people have me "beat" on degrees. I have two liberal arts degrees. I was not interested in learning a "trade" while in college. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/2/10 9:25 PM, Bob wrote:
I know words and how they are used. Then what can you say about me using my writing miscues as a guide.....? Do you see any patterns? Well, for openers, your speeeeeeling sux. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 23:38:20 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote: Spending money and wasting time in port fixing things is not cruising. that saying about fixing things in distant ports is a joke Unfortunately there is a lot of truth to it. If you are living/cruising on a boat every day, far from your home base, things do need maintenance from time to time. Local help is frequently unavailable, incompetent or dishonest. Parts are frequently unavailable. Shipping things in from out of country is expensive and takes much longer than you'd like. Anything you can fix yourself because you've had the foresight to bring the right tools and repair parts is all to the good. |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
He said he was a writer, not a psychiatrist :{))
L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." "Bob" wrote in message ... I know words and how they are used. Then what can you say about me using my writing miscues as a guide.....? Do you see any patterns? |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/3/10 9:19 AM, WaIIy wrote:
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 18:17:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Time to go drink some free beer and look at some boats. Maybe I could be like skip and write a 3000 word post on what i did at the bar, explain how a "tap" works, and then fall off my bar stool explaing to the world about my beer drinking. NOw that would be a great read. Hmmm, gotta admit, that was pretty funny. So, Skip is in the Carib somewhere, and you two guys are where? |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
"HarryK" wrote in message
... snip Wilbur, whoever you are and whatever you do, you are not qualified to ^^^^^^ ||||||||||| You should have typed 'whomever' http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoever.asp argue semantics with me. Really. I have a fancy graduate degree in etymology, and have been a practicing editor and writer for decades. ^ ^ | | Oh, is that so? So please tell me, Harry, why the unnecessary comma? I know words and how they are used. Most people with sailboats, whether they cruise as you describe it or race or just putter around do it for "fun." ^^ || Why, Harry, did you fail to place a comma where one was needed? Some editor! It can be a sport, which is one of the definitions for fun. The fact that boating needs to be taken seriously does not minimize its "fun" value. Wrong again, Harry! Taking any pursuit seriously necessarily diminishes its fun value as serious is the opposite of fun. Wilbur Hubbard Ph. D. Journalism |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
Wrong again, Harry! *Taking any pursuit seriously necessarily diminishes its fun value as serious is the opposite of fun. My Dearest Esteemed Colleague: I can not disagree more forcefully. A professional is a person who has a mastery compency level. She/he has both the highest level of performance PLUS a true joy of the task. It is the joy of the task that propels a person to the highest level of performance HOWEVER, superior skills (like yourself) is the last step before attaining Self Actualization... its when you’re in the grove: capable plus joy that pushes a person to the highest level of performance. Those lacking the total joy a task brings will never achieve that highest level of performance. It takes both. Think of it as fuking…. Could you be a fantastic love and not enjoy the woman/man you banging? Gotta have both other wise your just a dam good whore. Which is good. They are professionals too! Wilbur Hubbard Ph. D. Journalism (honorarium emeritus) |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On 11/3/10 1:35 PM, Bob wrote:
Wrong again, Harry! Taking any pursuit seriously necessarily diminishes its fun value as serious is the opposite of fun. My Dearest Esteemed Colleague: I can not disagree more forcefully. A professional is a person who has a mastery compency level. She/he has both the highest level of performance PLUS a true joy of the task. It is the joy of the task that propels a person to the highest level of performance HOWEVER, superior skills (like yourself) is the last step before attaining Self Actualization... its when you’re in the grove: capable plus joy that pushes a person to the highest level of performance. Those lacking the total joy a task brings will never achieve that highest level of performance. It takes both. Think of it as fuking…. Could you be a fantastic love and not enjoy the woman/man you banging? Gotta have both other wise your just a dam good whore. Which is good. They are professionals too! Wilbur Hubbard Ph. D. Journalism (honorarium emeritus) You fellas are just too full of yourselves. I boat for fun and relaxation, even while "cruising." |
Resolution Starting issues inside October Ooops!
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 09:28:02 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote: "HarryK" wrote in message ... snip Wilbur, whoever you are and whatever you do, you are not qualified to ^^^^^^ ||||||||||| You should have typed 'whomever' http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoever.asp argue semantics with me. Really. I have a fancy graduate degree in etymology, and have been a practicing editor and writer for decades. ^ ^ | | Oh, is that so? So please tell me, Harry, why the unnecessary comma? I know words and how they are used. Most people with sailboats, whether they cruise as you describe it or race or just putter around do it for "fun." ^^ || Why, Harry, did you fail to place a comma where one was needed? Some editor! It can be a sport, which is one of the definitions for fun. The fact that boating needs to be taken seriously does not minimize its "fun" value. Wrong again, Harry! Taking any pursuit seriously necessarily diminishes its fun value as serious is the opposite of fun. Wilbur Hubbard Ph. D. Journalism All this from Willie Boy Hubbard, the meter reader?? Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
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