wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer
My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.


And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.

How can you read that out in the cockpit?

I couldn't - and that was in the shade.

That must be why they use them outside on construction sites and for
Law enforcement work. They obviously don't need to be able to see the
display in daylight!

The toughbooks are specifically DAYLIGHT VIEWABLE.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toug.../ref=de_a_smtd



Advertising claims aside, I couldn't read it very well in the shade.

400:1 contrast ratio isn't anywhere up to date.


--

Richard Lamb

Greetings...

"Bob" wrote in message
...

Rather than buying 2x $400 things which are lovely to take into the
cockpit,

or not worry about getting wet if you take them ashore,


your language is difficult to understand.
CF-29s et al are bullet proof (sorta) as well as water proof (proven).
If they get dirty just HOZE them off...........

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand. You proposed I buy two
toughbooks to solve a HD problem, then compounded your error by suggesting I
take the HD (in my case, if the problem were what I was experiencing, the HD
would be questionable) out of a dead toughbook, stick it in another, and be
happy when I got the replacement computer, sans the defective drive which
I'd plucked from it, back from Toshiba after its failure.

Suggesting that I'd likely experience a dead toughbook isn't a ringing
endorsement...

Sounds like _your_ language is difficult to reason, if not understand :{))

OTOH, I understand your need to belittle me, and promote your agenda, by
misdirection, as I clearly stated that my problem was in the HD, and that I
had a solution to it.

Oh. I forgot. You just don't read for content, instead for targets. My
mistake. Given that you waded through my extremely long (as usual, I know)
long post solely to find something you could shoot at sorta illustrates my
point...

At least you could be like Wilbur and satirize while you're at it :{))


or their many
shortcomings

What short commings??????

Shortcomings for what I want to do with the computer at my nav station. I
have a 20" LCD display at my nav. Try that on a toughbook. I have a
full-sized, comfort (angled keys so I don't get carpal tunnel) keyboard
which fits my much-larger-than-typical hands, along with a mouse (ya, I know
I can connect a mouse to my toughbook if I had one). Ya, I know, I could
(maybe - don't know iif it has an output) hook up my screen to a TB, and
also my keyboard. But then, why bother having a TB??

FOTM is that I don't know what sort of ports a TB has, but I'd bet a bundle
it doesn't have what my computer does, discussed in the "Ping Larry" thread.
Mine has lots of comms, of which the TB doesn't (betting, here, not having
one in front of me), so that would fit directly into your question, making
the TB very short-comming :{)) - along with lots of other ports, to boot.

Note that I am not against Toughbooks, though, for the bells and
whistles,

Once again your language is equivical............ no bells and
whistles. just rock solid hardware.

I'd consider the ability to toss it or hose it, and have it come up working,
a bell and whistle as compared to others. However, as compared to the
Itronics, the two interesting B/Ws would be the built-in GPS and touch
screen, TBs presumed to also have WiFi. Please take discussions on this
point to my redirected thread on TBs and other extreme duty laptops.

As Ive said before.... most these guys here are 65 year old GEEKS who
have been out of the business for 20 years, and maybe at best sell
some dodads off a crappy boat to take an IRS Schedule C.
Find some one who actually works for a living and look at what they
are using. They aint got time to dick with geeky dreams used to fill
an other wise boring empty life. Stay away from those hobby/loss guy.

Most what guys here? I made reference to only one, who, best I can tell, is
still very active (Larry) - and has NEVER lived on a boat - who, up until
recently, made his entire living servicing electronics down to the component
level.

My vendor sells from his home business, not from a boat, and it definitely
is working for a living for him - which seems to have been productive, as he
recently moved from Birmingham to the beach in FL.

As to working for a living and using something computer-ish in it, the only
likely comparison would be something Roger would design, or larger. I'd bet
they don't have a toughbook at the helm, and quite likely not in the comm
center (radio shack, if you'd prefer).

We do have a laptop aboard, as backup. When (it's rarely been used that way)
it's not being a backup, it's Lydia's computer. Perhaps when it dies, we'd
investigate either a TB or IT - but the screens are notably smaller than
what's on hers.

As an aside, in the wanderings that this thread has taken, we went to a
larger chartplotter, replacing our RL70CRC with a C120. Better than double
the screen size, a product, solely, of our need for something which had a
larger display (old age ain't for sissies), so we didn't have to get our
face in it and squint when things got questionable.

So, while many will do just fine with 5" chartplotter screens, we're not
among them. It is what it is. I can't run a 4 minute mile, do 100 pushups
or 50 chinups, any more, either, but I'm still out here doing it, full
time...

L8R

Skip


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.

Stamp out Sesquipedalianism

BOb

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 12:07:13 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

My vendor sells from his home business, not from a boat, and it definitely
is working for a living for him - which seems to have been productive, as he
recently moved from Birmingham to the beach in FL.

I can personally attest to the fact that Skip's PC vendor/builder
provides absolutely first class products and support. He has great
WiFi solutions also.

http://www.islandtimepc.com/

Just a *very* satisfied customer.

That said, the Panasonic Toughbook CF-29 is a darned good boat
computer also.

WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 11:30:04 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Hi, again,

As this is now a toughbook vs other hardy laptops discussion, I'll drop out,
and with hope, rename the thread so it doesn't confuse matters.

That said, I have nothing against toughbooks. It just has nothing to do
with my (presumably solved) challenges witih (apparent) hard drive failures.
Every time the computer has been back, it won't display any internal
troubles which could cause my experiences.

Y'all fight over whether toughbook will work at sea to your hearts' content.
I very much doubt I'll have any first-hand input :{))

L8R

Skip

Your boat, your computers, your life, your decisions.

Apparently what you do is working I can see (and enjoy) all of your
posts and they are correctly formatted.

We all know you're long-winded, that's part of your charm.


Yeah. There is a lot of life in Skips posts.



--

Richard Lamb

I'm not sure what's difficult to understand. *You proposed I buy two
toughbooks to solve a HD problem, then compounded your error by suggesting I
take the HD........

Your problme is THAT you have a HD problem!

Buy a computer designed and built robustly and you dont have those
problems. ANd when you do...... flip flop swap and youre plugged in
and running again in 20 seconds. Maybe Lydia wouldnt have scuttled
your boat whil you were sleeping on watch.... oh ya she was too so I
guess a functing chart ploter would serve no purpose.


Shortcomings for what I want to do with the computer at my nav station. *I
have a 20" LCD display at my nav. Try that on a toughbook.

Jesus H Christ Skip twenty inches ! ! ! Why the **** doint ya jsut
get a 36 inch wide screen plasma while youre at it.
Your gear choice is absolutly unbelievable !

You need some major brain adjustment Skip. Your reality syncros are
misaligned.

I would be willing to consult you back to reality. I work cheep: $180/
hour with a 2 hour minimum. Two hours will save you $1000s and 10,000s
of saved life hours in the next two years .

This one is free................. your technology quest will not keep
you safe.

Bob

On Oct 4, 8:51*am, CaveLamb wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer
My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. * It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.

And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.

How can you read that out in the cockpit?

I couldn't - and that was in the shade.

That must be why they use them outside on construction sites and for
Law enforcement work. They obviously don't need to be able to see the
display in daylight!

The toughbooks are specifically DAYLIGHT VIEWABLE.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toug...Inch-Notebook/...

Advertising claims aside, I couldn't read it very well in the shade.

400:1 contrast ratio isn't anywhere up to date.

--

Richard Lamb



Dear Richard:

Here is something to consider operating a used CF29
When buying used most HDs are reformatted. DOing so removes the
Panasonic drivers. One required driver controlls the brightness
controll. With the driver installed use Ctrl + F1 or F2 for
brighness. With oout the Panisonic driver it dont work all that well
or not at all.

I hope this helps.....

My CF29 has excellent outside brightness.

Maybe I should get one of those 3D 53 inch plasma screens that SKip
has. NOw that would be fun............... for about 3 seconds :/

Bob

Bob wrote:
On Oct 4, 8:51 am, CaveLamb wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:56:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:21:25 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:
Skip the computer and just use paper rather than deal with a sluggish computer
My favorite boat computer is a Toughbook that I bought used for $265
or so. It's more than adequate for managing charts in BSB format,
browsing the web, reading EMAIL, etc., and it just keeps on ticking.
And last, though certainly not least, is the limited contrast / brightness.
How can you read that out in the cockpit?
I couldn't - and that was in the shade.
That must be why they use them outside on construction sites and for
Law enforcement work. They obviously don't need to be able to see the
display in daylight!
The toughbooks are specifically DAYLIGHT VIEWABLE.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Toug...Inch-Notebook/...
Advertising claims aside, I couldn't read it very well in the shade.

400:1 contrast ratio isn't anywhere up to date.

--

Richard Lamb



Dear Richard:

Here is something to consider operating a used CF29
When buying used most HDs are reformatted. DOing so removes the
Panasonic drivers. One required driver controlls the brightness
controll. With the driver installed use Ctrl + F1 or F2 for
brighness. With oout the Panisonic driver it dont work all that well
or not at all.

I hope this helps.....

My CF29 has excellent outside brightness.

Maybe I should get one of those 3D 53 inch plasma screens that SKip
has. NOw that would be fun............... for about 3 seconds :/

Bob


That may be the case, Bob.
It belongs to the Police Department, not me.
So I can't easily check that detail.
But I'll mention it to them.

Thanks


--

Richard Lamb

Bob

That may be the case, Bob.
It belongs to the Police Department, not me.
So I can't easily check that detail.
But I'll mention it to them.

Thanks
Richard Lamb


Howdy Richard,
Glad to be of help. I did make one mistake in my earlier post. The
CF29 key commands for brightness control is: (blue key) Fn not what I
posted originally as Ctrl. I apologize for that mistake. The blue key
Fn is used to control several function keys including brightness.

I hope you get some good time on the water where ever you may be. Fall
in the PNW is fantastic right now

Bob

wrote in message
...


Especially on a sailboat, power draw is a big consideration. Fast
processors draw a TON more electricity, as do unecessarily large
displays. What Cavelamb is claiming he HAS to have will be a bigger
power drain than a decent refrigerator. How is he going to provide
that much power on a small sailboat?


What kind of refrigerator do you run, and for how long? Most Danfoss
compressors I know about pull about 6 amps at full speed.

My high powered rig (with 15w, soon to be 2.5w HD) pulls about 2.5. Lydia's
Laptop pulls (through the brick, of course) close to 5. I ditched my
SeaTech laptop cuz it drew over 10.

My screen, for which I will be aggressively seeking an LED 12V replacment
when I have to be ashore again for a wedding, pulls about 2.5 in active
mode.

So, yes, my full rig might be about the same as the refrigeration, both
running full load. Fortunately, neither run full time. My computer
(all-in), fortunately, doesn't use nearly as much as my refrigeration (yes,
I'm spoiled there, too), even in tropical waters and heat, because my
computer's on for a few hours, not 24/7. If we were in northern waters, I'm
sure they might be about equal (currently, that is, before my HD - now in
the Bahamas but not yet in my hands - savings, and before my LED screen
savings, as yet unrealized, of course). As to how we supply all that, we
have an 880AH 4xL16HC bank fed by 370W of solar and a KISS wind generator,
making 10 amps as I type (solar nothing, as it's night here, but typically
15-25A during the day), cuz the breeze is light; if it ever gets to the
forecasted 20-25, it will be more like 20-25A, 24/7. Both do very well in
the tropics.

Far afield from even the migrations of this thread, we have a keel cooler, a
smart speed controller (makes it run slower, thus less amps, as needed/not
needed), and digital thermostats in both reefer and freezer; very efficient.
Freezer kept at 8, reefer at 32 (nominal; a bit warmer on the far side top,
with the veggies, cold right next to the separation, where we keep our
drinking stuff - the recycled gatorade gallon jug full of water nearly
always has ice in it from being right in front of the spillover fan; it
makes our lemonade and, when we get some more, our Gatorade mix - always icy
cold, as is the coke and beer we occasionally treat ourselves to, which sits
below it)...

L8R

Skip, enjoying being able to see stuff large, and watch our movies in
wide-screen. No, I don't have a cedar bucket, either, and took out the
lectra-sans which came with the boat, mostly on a power issue basis, but I
DO have flush toilets :{))

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Bob wrote:
Bob

That may be the case, Bob.
It belongs to the Police Department, not me.
So I can't easily check that detail.
But I'll mention it to them.

Thanks
Richard Lamb


Howdy Richard,
Glad to be of help. I did make one mistake in my earlier post. The
CF29 key commands for brightness control is: (blue key) Fn not what I
posted originally as Ctrl. I apologize for that mistake. The blue key
Fn is used to control several function keys including brightness.

I hope you get some good time on the water where ever you may be. Fall
in the PNW is fantastic right now

Bob



Sunday was 20-25k with some serious gusts and 3 foot waves.

Not bad for a little old 98000 acre lake.

I had guests (always better then) so kept her under reefed main.
Wish I had a blade jib for those conditions.
Maybe some day?

--

Richard Lamb