Skippy seems to make Wi-Fi his main concern when visiting ports of call.

To me this seems rather pitiful. Whatever happened to cruising for the sake
of the simple and enjoyable cruising life which is NOT to be had if one
motors from one port to the next where one can connect to the Internet to
run one's mouth for hours and hours each day?

What kind of mentality tells a sailor that his audience can't get along
without him or he can't get along without his audience?

I couldn't cruise that way. I wouldn't cruise that way. That's not cruising.
I couldn't live that way. That's not living That's going around yelling,
"Hey lookit meeeeee!"


Wilbur Hubbard

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:52:14 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


Skippy seems to make Wi-Fi his main concern when visiting ports of call.

To me this seems rather pitiful. Whatever happened to cruising for the sake
of the simple and enjoyable cruising life which is NOT to be had if one
motors from one port to the next where one can connect to the Internet to
run one's mouth for hours and hours each day?

What kind of mentality tells a sailor that his audience can't get along
without him or he can't get along without his audience?

I couldn't cruise that way. I wouldn't cruise that way. That's not cruising.
I couldn't live that way. That's not living That's going around yelling,
"Hey lookit meeeeee!"


Wilbur Hubbard



As someone said, "Hey lookit meeeeee!'

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

Skippy seems to make Wi-Fi his main concern when visiting ports of call.

To me this seems rather pitiful. Whatever happened to cruising for the
sake of the simple and enjoyable cruising life which is NOT to be had if
one motors from one port to the next where one can connect to the Internet
to run one's mouth for hours and hours each day?

What kind of mentality tells a sailor that his audience can't get along
without him or he can't get along without his audience?

I couldn't cruise that way. I wouldn't cruise that way. That's not
cruising. I couldn't live that way. That's not living That's going around
yelling, "Hey lookit meeeeee!"


Wilbur Hubbard


Now, Willie, you know that's not quite right...

I can't comment on others, but we sail, using the motor only as a last
resort. It's true that we "shop for internet" while we shop for water as we
anchor, but that's driven by 2 things.

The first and foremost, a condition I knew about when I married her, is that
Lydia has stainless steel hawsers rather than apron strings, enhanced and
confounded by her relatively recent awareness of grandparent(well, I guess I
should say grandmother, as, if it's not of her bloodline, the interest in
FTF or telephony/video contact is nearly invisible)hood, which make the need
for reasonably reliable contact, either via email or video skype, paramount.
It's (the hawsers) one of the conditions I accepted as the cost of
cruising - and, even our relationship, which preceded our splash by a long
time.

Second is that, unlike a huge majority of cruisers (not necessarily here),
we don't return to our home port, with all the attendant benefits of a
landside connection, transportation and a fixed location for a base, after
each trip or voyage. As a result, anything we need is hugely more
effectively done over the internet rather than on an expensive shore card
(see the Ragged subthread) or even more expensive cell connection.

FWIW, we also have Ham, SSB, VHF and other connectivity - but the internet
works any time we're within a league of shore, for the most part (there have
been only a less-than-handfuil of times we've not found open access in our
three years plus of cruising, much of it done under way).

So, weather is the prime concern, navigation the second, provisioning and
safety the third, and on and on. WiFi is only one of the primary concerns
:{)) - but once the others are resolved, item 1 above trumps most other
stuff...

Yah, I know, you'll get off on your rant about women on a boat. However,
that part aside, those of our sexual orientation usually prefer to have a
companion if she's up to, enthusiastic about and reasonably (I only put that
label on myself; "highly" may come one day...) skilled at seamanship. So,
there you have it...

As to the last, in a check of the archives, I think one would find that
you've had orders of magnitude more presence here, usually to stir up
something (and which, as we've discussed, with some mutual amusement, I
usually won't take the bait on). Ergo, Pot, Kettle.

But I love you anyway :{))

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

Skippy seems to make Wi-Fi his main concern when visiting ports of call.

To me this seems rather pitiful. Whatever happened to cruising for the
sake of the simple and enjoyable cruising life which is NOT to be had if
one motors from one port to the next where one can connect to the
Internet to run one's mouth for hours and hours each day?

What kind of mentality tells a sailor that his audience can't get along
without him or he can't get along without his audience?

I couldn't cruise that way. I wouldn't cruise that way. That's not
cruising. I couldn't live that way. That's not living That's going around
yelling, "Hey lookit meeeeee!"


Wilbur Hubbard


Now, Willie, you know that's not quite right...

I can't comment on others, but we sail, using the motor only as a last
resort. It's true that we "shop for internet" while we shop for water as
we anchor, but that's driven by 2 things.

And, you don't understand the absurdity of your methods? You don't see how
what you do is a *******ization of cruising and voyaging? You need to
examine what your goals are and write them down in order of priorities. If
your main goals involve 'keeping in touch' then you're in the wrong place
doing the wrong thing.

Cruising and voyaging are NOT all about keeping in touch. Keeping in touch
is anathema to the cruising life. You are trying to combine two things that
are at the opposite ends of the spectrum to the detriment of both of them.
By trying to do both, you are doing neither well.

Are your goals so vague and cloudy that it pleases you to be mediocre at
everying caused by doing several things half-assed so you can cram them all
in? For me it's always been quality over quantity. I guess for you and most
others these days priorities have changed. It's now all about quantity over
quality. That's the very definition of mediocre. It saddens me to have a
noble pursuit like cruising and voyaging reduced to mediocrity.


The first and foremost, a condition I knew about when I married her, is
that Lydia has stainless steel hawsers rather than apron strings, enhanced
and confounded by her relatively recent awareness of grandparent(well, I
guess I should say grandmother, as, if it's not of her bloodline, the
interest in FTF or telephony/video contact is nearly invisible)hood, which
make the need for reasonably reliable contact, either via email or video
skype, paramount. It's (the hawsers) one of the conditions I accepted as
the cost of cruising - and, even our relationship, which preceded our
splash by a long time.

A very obtuse way of saying you actually enjoy being a henpecked husband.


Second is that, unlike a huge majority of cruisers (not necessarily here),
we don't return to our home port, with all the attendant benefits of a
landside connection, transportation and a fixed location for a base, after
each trip or voyage. As a result, anything we need is hugely more
effectively done over the internet rather than on an expensive shore card
(see the Ragged subthread) or even more expensive cell connection.


I suppose one can then conclude that prior to the advent of the Internet
nobody really enjoyed cruising and voyaging. Nobody was able do it well
without the umbilical cord? The audience? May I suggest that until you cut
the cord you are an 'unborn' cruiser and will never be an accomplished
voyager.


FWIW, we also have Ham, SSB, VHF and other connectivity - but the internet
works any time we're within a league of shore, for the most part (there
have been only a less-than-handfuil of times we've not found open access
in our three years plus of cruising, much of it done under way).

So, weather is the prime concern, navigation the second, provisioning and
safety the third, and on and on. WiFi is only one of the primary concerns
:{)) - but once the others are resolved, item 1 above trumps most other
stuff...


Weather the prime concern? lol Says, Skippy as he and his overloaded boat
are cruising the Bahamas during hurricane season. Duh! If weather were your
prime concern you'd be off cruising someplace and some time where there were
no tropical cyclones in the offing.



Yah, I know, you'll get off on your rant about women on a boat. However,
that part aside, those of our sexual orientation usually prefer to have a
companion if she's up to, enthusiastic about and reasonably (I only put
that label on myself; "highly" may come one day...) skilled at seamanship.
So, there you have it...


And, I am entirely correct to rant about 'certain' women voyaging under
sail. In the history of mankind there have been perhaps fewer than a 100
women who voyaged under sail and who were not a detriment to the enterprise.
Susan Hiscock comes to mind. Any woman who does not enjoy cruising that
involves less than 'sailing' a floating condominium with generator power
enough to light up a small city is never going to be anything but a severe
drag on the proper exection of the enterprise. Better to admit you're
henpecked and go live ashore with the other house husbands.


As to the last, in a check of the archives, I think one would find that
you've had orders of magnitude more presence here, usually to stir up
something (and which, as we've discussed, with some mutual amusement, I
usually won't take the bait on). Ergo, Pot, Kettle.

But I love you anyway :{))


I'm semi-retired from the cruising life now. When I did my major cruising
some years ago, I did it as a purist. I did not 'sail' a condo/house tied to
shore with a long umbilical cord. Nor did I do it as a floating beauty
saloon/gossip column. Definitely not a case of PKB. Consider this, the only
reason I bother with you at all is I think you two are one of the few
couples these days who might actually enjoy cruising like it was meant to be
if only you could honestly examine your priorities and commit to those which
are really the most important in your lives.


Wilbur Hubbard

Hi, Wilbur,

For a little bit, I'd thought you'd died :{))

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
Now, Willie, you know that's not quite right...

I can't comment on others, but we sail, using the motor only as a last
resort. It's true that we "shop for internet" while we shop for water as
we anchor, but that's driven by 2 things.

And, you don't understand the absurdity of your methods? You don't see how
what you do is a *******ization of cruising and voyaging? You need to
examine what your goals are and write them down in order of priorities. If
your main goals involve 'keeping in touch' then you're in the wrong place
doing the wrong thing.

Ehhh. Things change. If all you care about is getting away from everyone
and everything meaningful in your life other than the ocean, that makes
sense.

However, life today in the connected world is much different. Commercial
interests have abandoned SSB in favor of Satellite comms, including full
bandwidth internet and telephony. As they make their livings on the water,
I'd have to say that their example should be instructive to you in your
pedantry (not going the other place!!!)...


Cruising and voyaging are NOT all about keeping in touch. Keeping in touch
is anathema to the cruising life. You are trying to combine two things
that are at the opposite ends of the spectrum to the detriment of both of
them. By trying to do both, you are doing neither well.

I disagree, particularly as to the enhanced availability of shoreside help
for a myriad of circumstances where you might find it favorable. Weather
comes to mind. Yes, you can be a skilled meteorologist, but from the limited
perspective of the boat's view/radius, you stand the chance of missing
something very important or life-threatening, more on which below.


Are your goals so vague and cloudy that it pleases you to be mediocre at
everying caused by doing several things half-assed so you can cram them
all in? For me it's always been quality over quantity. I guess for you and
most others these days priorities have changed. It's now all about
quantity over quality. That's the very definition of mediocre. It saddens
me to have a noble pursuit like cruising and voyaging reduced to
mediocrity.

Heh. Who sez you can't have it all? Technology today allows that with very
few compromises. Admittedly, if you're fixed on voyaging in a vessel small
enough to be pushed effectively with a 6HP outboard, your choices of
enhancement are pretty limited - as, likely, your cruising range will be,
too, solely on space considerations.



The first and foremost, a condition I knew about when I married her, is
that Lydia has stainless steel hawsers rather than apron strings,
enhanced and confounded by her relatively recent awareness of
grandparent(well, I guess I should say grandmother, as, if it's not of
her bloodline, the interest in FTF or telephony/video contact is nearly
invisible)hood, which make the need for reasonably reliable contact,
either via email or video skype, paramount. It's (the hawsers) one of the
conditions I accepted as the cost of cruising - and, even our
relationship, which preceded our splash by a long time.

A very obtuse way of saying you actually enjoy being a henpecked husband.

Hardly. We share the same objectives. When she needs her fix, I take the
advantage to see/communicate with my family as well. Otherwise, changed by
her grandparent thing, we'd be quite content to limit those exposures to
time aboard.



Second is that, unlike a huge majority of cruisers (not necessarily
here), we don't return to our home port, with all the attendant benefits
of a landside connection, transportation and a fixed location for a base,
after each trip or voyage. As a result, anything we need is hugely more
effectively done over the internet rather than on an expensive shore card
(see the Ragged subthread) or even more expensive cell connection.


I suppose one can then conclude that prior to the advent of the Internet
nobody really enjoyed cruising and voyaging. Nobody was able do it well
without the umbilical cord? The audience? May I suggest that until you cut
the cord you are an 'unborn' cruiser and will never be an accomplished
voyager.

See above on that one. Enjoyment of cruising and voyaging isn't diminished
by being able to communicate, any more than your ability to hang an outboard
off the back. The Pardeys did just fine with a scull for decades, you
slacker!



FWIW, we also have Ham, SSB, VHF and other connectivity - but the
internet works any time we're within a league of shore, for the most part
(there have been only a less-than-handfuil of times we've not found open
access in our three years plus of cruising, much of it done under way).

So, weather is the prime concern, navigation the second, provisioning and
safety the third, and on and on. WiFi is only one of the primary
concerns :{)) - but once the others are resolved, item 1 above trumps
most other stuff...


Weather the prime concern? lol Says, Skippy as he and his overloaded
boat are cruising the Bahamas during hurricane season. Duh! If weather
were your prime concern you'd be off cruising someplace and some time
where there were no tropical cyclones in the offing.

As above, our connectedness allows us to be safe but still enjoy those
waters you raved so much about. We had a great sail yesterday, for example,
in nearly ideal conditions. Going outside through one of the cuts wouldn't
be advised, yet, for a couple more days, but, if we didn't have that
connectivity, we wouldn't know without having to go have an onsite view of
why we shouldn't.

Between SSB, my satellite receiver (real-time pix as NOAA's satellites go
over), the internet, and others, we have no concerns about tropical
disturbances. As always, we have our hurricane holes picked out, and, with
our connectivity, could be in place within the 5 day window, keep a careful
eye on developments, and take appropriate steps for securing Flying Pig as
needed. Those who run and hide geographically are simply wusses, or slaves
to insurance rules, or both.




Yah, I know, you'll get off on your rant about women on a boat. However,
that part aside, those of our sexual orientation usually prefer to have a
companion if she's up to, enthusiastic about and reasonably (I only put
that label on myself; "highly" may come one day...) skilled at
seamanship. So, there you have it...


And, I am entirely correct to rant about 'certain' women voyaging under
sail. In the history of mankind there have been perhaps fewer than a 100
women who voyaged under sail and who were not a detriment to the
enterprise. Susan Hiscock comes to mind. Any woman who does not enjoy
cruising that involves less than 'sailing' a floating condominium with
generator power enough to light up a small city is never going to be
anything but a severe drag on the proper exection of the enterprise.
Better to admit you're henpecked and go live ashore with the other house
husbands.

Neither of us could stand it, and dread the day when we're forced into your
condition. Hardly henpecked, WE're out here by distinct preference, as
you'd very well know if you read my logs. So, I say to you, Lydia's not one
of those "certain" women.



As to the last, in a check of the archives, I think one would find that
you've had orders of magnitude more presence here, usually to stir up
something (and which, as we've discussed, with some mutual amusement, I
usually won't take the bait on). Ergo, Pot, Kettle.

But I love you anyway :{))


I'm semi-retired from the cruising life now. When I did my major cruising
some years ago, I did it as a purist. I did not 'sail' a condo/house tied
to shore with a long umbilical cord. Nor did I do it as a floating beauty
saloon/gossip column. Definitely not a case of PKB. Consider this, the
only reason I bother with you at all is I think you two are one of the few
couples these days who might actually enjoy cruising like it was meant to
be if only you could honestly examine your priorities and commit to those
which are really the most important in your lives.

Heh. We do, with our own spin. And, we have, indeed made that commitment.
Sold the houses, gave away the car, and plunged headlong into our dream.

L8R

Love from Lydia, particularly, who gives you a sloppy kiss to go along with
the hug


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.

Stamp out Sesquipedalianism

Willlllburrrr !

And, you don't understand the absurdity of your methods? You don't see how
what you do is a *******ization of cruising and voyaging? You need to
examine what your goals are and write them down in order of priorities. If
your main goals involve 'keeping in touch' then you're in the wrong place
doing the wrong thing.

A hearty agreement !


Weather the prime concern? lol Says, Skippy as he and his overloaded boat
are cruising the Bahamas during hurricane season. Duh! If weather were your
prime concern you'd be off cruising someplace and some time where there were
no tropical cyclones in the offing.

Hummm I wonder what his insurance company says about that...........
oh, ya he aint got none cause even those blood suckers wont risk
betting on him.


And, I am entirely correct to rant about 'certain' women voyaging under
sail. In the history of mankind there have been perhaps fewer than a 100
women who voyaged under sail and who were not a detriment to the enterprise.


Be carful here Wilbur. Last week I was walking the commercial fish
docks and met a hot 28 yo.5'10 and built like a sleek well muscled
mongose. SHe owned a squared away 42' wood troller and was fishin
tuna. She had a crew of two other 20s women. She said she bought the
boat from her dad who fished it in alsaka and had been fisihg tuna/
salmon/crab for the last 8 years. I asked here where she fished. Her
reply: Alaska to northern cali and out to 150 miles.

She was one very cool skipper and rather pleasant conversationalist.

There are extreamly qualified and emotionally capable women....... its
just that most the marina dogs around here just cant hunt.

Consider this, the only
reason I bother with you at all is I think you two are one of the few
couples these days who might actually enjoy cruising like it was meant to be
if only you could honestly examine your priorities and commit to those which
are really the most important in your lives.
Wilbur Hubbard

That will never happen WIlbur for neither are honest and both are
atempting to controll the other. As a result they compliment each
other's defeciencies in a mutualy dependent relationship with both
alternatly taking on the Parent/Child role (see 1970s Transactional
Analysis P-A-C)

Please remember that a truly capable woman wont chose a mate that is
anything less than a truly capable man.

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...
(Wilbur Said)
Weather the prime concern? lol Says, Skippy as he and his overloaded
boat
are cruising the Bahamas during hurricane season. Duh! If weather were
your
prime concern you'd be off cruising someplace and some time where there
were
no tropical cyclones in the offing.

You obviously chose to ignore my reply to Wilbur earlier in this thread:
********
As above, our connectedness allows us to be safe but still enjoy those
waters you raved so much about. We had a great sail yesterday, for example,
in nearly ideal conditions. Going outside through one of the cuts wouldn't
be advised, yet, for a couple more days, but, if we didn't have that
connectivity, we wouldn't know without having to go have an onsite view of
why we shouldn't.

Between SSB, my satellite receiver (real-time pix as NOAA's satellites go
over), the internet, and others, we have no concerns about tropical
disturbances. As always, we have our hurricane holes picked out, and, with
our connectivity, could be in place within the 5 day window, keep a careful
eye on developments, and take appropriate steps for securing Flying Pig as
needed. Those who run and hide geographically are simply wusses, or slaves
to insurance rules, or both.
+++++++

We are neither, just self-directed. I can't say that Wilbur doesn't qualify
for at least one, if he suggests we stay out of the "box"...

(Bob Said, about that)

Hummm I wonder what his insurance company says about that...........
oh, ya he aint got none cause even those blood suckers wont risk
betting on him.

Actually, not so. The same year as our wreck, submitting an app at the
Annapolis Boat show, we were quoted (a few weeks later) by the same company
we'd had all set up before we went coastal cruising (instead of proceeding
directly to the Bahamas following our rehab; they returned our check which
they'd been holding pending a departure from coastal coverage with
Allstate). Full disclosure on the new app. Same price, same coverage. We
chose to remain self-insured, though we're reconsidering liability only, as
we've had a very reasonable quote recently...

Y'all have fun with the thread; I'm going to bed with a good book.

L8R

Skip


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:00:22 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

As a result they compliment each
other's defeciencies in a mutualy dependent relationship with both
alternatly taking on the Parent/Child role (see 1970s Transactional
Analysis P-A-C)

Please remember that a truly capable woman wont chose a mate that is
anything less than a truly capable man.

Bob, I find it impressive that an unmarried guy like yourself has been
able to acquire all of this knowledge about women just by reading
about them. Very impressive.

As a result they compliment each
other's defeciencies in a mutualy dependent relationship with both
alternatly taking on the Parent/Child role (see 1970s Transactional
Analysis P-A-C)

Please remember that a truly capable woman wont chose a mate that is
anything less than a truly capable man.

Bob, I find it impressive that an unmarried guy like yourself has been
able to acquire all of this knowledge about women just by reading
about them. * *Very impressive.


Thank you.....
Heck Ive also learned quit a bit about sailing here as well.
BOb

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Willlllburrrr !

And, you don't understand the absurdity of your methods? You don't see
how
what you do is a *******ization of cruising and voyaging? You need to
examine what your goals are and write them down in order of priorities.
If
your main goals involve 'keeping in touch' then you're in the wrong place
doing the wrong thing.

A hearty agreement !

Good man!



Weather the prime concern? lol Says, Skippy as he and his overloaded
boat
are cruising the Bahamas during hurricane season. Duh! If weather were
your
prime concern you'd be off cruising someplace and some time where there
were
no tropical cyclones in the offing.

Hummm I wonder what his insurance company says about that...........
oh, ya he aint got none cause even those blood suckers wont risk
betting on him.


Until he starts to get his priorities straight I wouldn't take the bet
either.



And, I am entirely correct to rant about 'certain' women voyaging under
sail. In the history of mankind there have been perhaps fewer than a 100
women who voyaged under sail and who were not a detriment to the
enterprise.


Be carful here Wilbur. Last week I was walking the commercial fish
docks and met a hot 28 yo.5'10 and built like a sleek well muscled
mongose. SHe owned a squared away 42' wood troller and was fishin
tuna. She had a crew of two other 20s women. She said she bought the
boat from her dad who fished it in alsaka and had been fisihg tuna/
salmon/crab for the last 8 years. I asked here where she fished. Her
reply: Alaska to northern cali and out to 150 miles.

She was one very cool skipper and rather pleasant conversationalist.

And, undoubtedly a lesbian. Face it, no real woman would do what she's
doing.


There are extreamly qualified and emotionally capable women....... its
just that most the marina dogs around here just cant hunt.


As a general rule, any woman who lives the sailing life, lives aboard her
own sailing vessel and sails the oceans of the world has something wrong
with her. Women simply aren't cut out for, nor are they capable of
establishing and maintaining a sea going life for extended periods of time.
They are genetically programmed to build a nice secure nest ashore where
they can bring forth children even if they have to be ******* children
because no man will commit to marriage with a woman who aspires to be a man.

To keep folks from calling me a mysoginist, let me say something similar
about a man. As a general rule, any man who lives the life of a nursemaid
has something wrong with him. Such a man would be genetically programmed to
be a woman - not a man.


Consider this, the only
reason I bother with you at all is I think you two are one of the few
couples these days who might actually enjoy cruising like it was meant to
be
if only you could honestly examine your priorities and commit to those
which
are really the most important in your lives.
Wilbur Hubbard

That will never happen WIlbur for neither are honest and both are
atempting to controll the other. As a result they compliment each
other's defeciencies in a mutualy dependent relationship with both
alternatly taking on the Parent/Child role (see 1970s Transactional
Analysis P-A-C)

Please remember that a truly capable woman wont chose a mate that is
anything less than a truly capable man.


You make an excellent point. A true woman mates with a man who maximizes her
chances of child-bearing and the successful nurturing of said progeny in
relative safety and security. But, this doesn't apply to Lydia and Skippy as
she's well beyond the reproductive age. I think she even has grown-up
grandchildren. But, even so, there is a defect in any woman who doesn't nest
up whether or not she can still lay eggs.



Wilbur Hubbard