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Ping: Skippy!
I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. Removing the old motor and installing the new motor took about twenty minutes. No muss, no fuss! No disruption to the interior of the yacht, either. How much would it cost you to repower the Flying Pig? How many weeks downtime would there be? How huge a mess would it make in the accommodation? How sore would your back be? How close to serving you with divorce papers would Lydia be? lol Wilbur Hubbard |
Ping: Skippy!
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:09:36 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. Removing the old motor and installing the new motor took about twenty minutes. No muss, no fuss! No disruption to the interior of the yacht, either. How much would it cost you to repower the Flying Pig? How many weeks downtime would there be? How huge a mess would it make in the accommodation? How sore would your back be? How close to serving you with divorce papers would Lydia be? lol ] How would your outboard perform on a 46 ft, 40,000 pound boat? How big is your alternator? What is your fuel range under power? What is the expected longevity in operating hours? Can your outboard be used to heat water? What are the chances that your outboard could save you from a lee shore in a severe squall? |
Ping: Skippy!
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:09:36 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. Removing the old motor and installing the new motor took about twenty minutes. No muss, no fuss! No disruption to the interior of the yacht, either. How much would it cost you to repower the Flying Pig? How many weeks downtime would there be? How huge a mess would it make in the accommodation? How sore would your back be? How close to serving you with divorce papers would Lydia be? lol ] How would your outboard perform on a 46 ft, 40,000 pound boat? It would not perform on a way-too-big boat that size. How big is your alternator? My car has an alternator. My sailboat and any sailboat shouldn't have one. What is your fuel range under power? Why would I know? I have sails that will take me around the world without any fossil fuel. The motor is only to get me in and out of inlets, narrow channels etc where there is no wind. This is what a sailboat is all about - sailing, not motoring. What is the expected longevity in operating hours? The Tohatsu-made, Mariner 3.3HP on my dinghy is fifteen years old and still going strong. Probably has several thousand hours on it. Can your outboard be used to heat water? What a silly question. Using an outboard to heat water is about as stupid as using a diesel to heat water. Who needs hot water on a sailboat in the first place? If I want hot water for coffee, for example, that's what the stove is for. What are the chances that your outboard could save you from a lee shore in a severe squall? My sailing skills would save me from a lee shore in a storm. Chances are good I would never be found on a lee shore in any storm big enough to drive me ashore. A squall is of little or no consequence. That's what anchors are for if necessary. That you would even think of relying on a motor to keep you off a lee shore tells me you're no sailor and in for a big surprise when you motor conks out one of these days. Wilbur Hubbard |
Ping: Skippy!
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:00:50 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:09:36 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. Removing the old motor and installing the new motor took about twenty minutes. No muss, no fuss! No disruption to the interior of the yacht, either. How much would it cost you to repower the Flying Pig? How many weeks downtime would there be? How huge a mess would it make in the accommodation? How sore would your back be? How close to serving you with divorce papers would Lydia be? lol ] How would your outboard perform on a 46 ft, 40,000 pound boat? It would not perform on a way-too-big boat that size. 46 ft is actually a pretty good size for living aboard and long range cruising. How big is your alternator? My car has an alternator. My sailboat and any sailboat shouldn't have one. Only if you need to charge your batteries in a reasonable length of time. What is your fuel range under power? Why would I know? I have sails that will take me around the world without any fossil fuel. The motor is only to get me in and out of inlets, narrow channels etc where there is no wind. This is what a sailboat is all about - sailing, not motoring. And if you are dismasted while offshore? Or becalmed in the doldrums? What is the expected longevity in operating hours? The Tohatsu-made, Mariner 3.3HP on my dinghy is fifteen years old and still going strong. Probably has several thousand hours on it. A good fresh water cooled diesel should go at least 5,000 hours? Can your outboard be used to heat water? What a silly question. Using an outboard to heat water is about as stupid as using a diesel to heat water. Who needs hot water on a sailboat in the first place? If I want hot water for coffee, for example, that's what the stove is for. If you have no need to bathe or wash dishes, no need for hot water at all. What are the chances that your outboard could save you from a lee shore in a severe squall? My sailing skills would save me from a lee shore in a storm. Unless you were dismasted over overwhelmed. Chances are good I would never be found on a lee shore in any storm big enough to drive me ashore. A squall is of little or no consequence. Unless you are in one. That's what anchors are for if necessary. That you would even think of relying on a motor to keep you off a lee shore tells me you're no sailor and in for a big surprise when you motor conks out one of these days. Wilbur Hubbard |
Ping: Skippy!
Wayne, come on, guy.
THAT boat isn't going off shore. |
Ping: Skippy!
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:37:59 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote this crap: Can your outboard be used to heat water? What a silly question. Using an outboard to heat water is about as stupid as using a diesel to heat water. Who needs hot water on a sailboat in the first place? If I want hot water for coffee, for example, that's what the stove is for. My stove doesn't work. I took the propane tank off. I use the microwave for cooking. If you have no need to bathe or wash dishes, no need for hot water at all. Wash dishes? I throw mine away. They're only paper. Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Ping: Skippy!
On 7/15/10 4:35 AM, Bloody Horvath wrote:
Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. heheheh. A joke, right? If we're lucky, Palin will never be elected to another political office. If her daughter and the again-intended have a brain between them, they'll move out of Mama Bear's house. |
Ping: Skippy!
"cavelamb" wrote in message m... Wayne, come on, guy. THAT boat isn't going off shore. When I was in Nigeria, my driver told me that they have a space program. The image that came to mind was of the ACME Giant Rubber Band slung between 2 trees. This comparison between Nealbur's yellow tub and Skips boat made me think of that Giant Rubber Band. |
Skippy!
Hi, Willy :{))
All the jibes aside/ignored as your usual rabble-rousing, I'm impressed... "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. A new 6HP saildrive unit for $1500. Now THAT's impressive. FWIW, even the little Honda genset which we do use occasionally when there's no wind and sun to allow my green reseources to charge us up/keep us full, has many users reporting upward of 10,000 hours. Perkins 4-154s in farm service regularly get that much time on them as well. As such, barring some excitement we can't foresee, as we've just gone over 4k hours on the rebuilt unit which was installed during a prior owner's time, following (presuming the hourmeter which was still in place when the new tach/hourmeter was installed was stopped on the exchange, or perhaps before) hard charter service of nearly 7 years, we expect we'll never get to the end of the life of our auxiliary propulsion unit. That said, parts for this unit are becoming a bit like hen's teeth, and a critical part failure could result in a repower. If so, I expect that we'd go to a Cummins unit which is pretty close to a drop-in. Costs, of course, are an issue - but we have reserves for that specific purpose. Downtime would be about a day, as there are no exhangeable parts, and the mechanics of removal and replacement are pretty straightforward. A sistership just installed a rebuilt in less than a day, which is about what I'd expect for ours, should the day arrive. Careful maintenance has us expecting a very long life on Perky... So, when are you going to come whip our sorry asses cruising the Bahamas? We'll be here, we expect, for almost another year, unless, when we come back in a couple of weeks, we decide to head further before coming back for a wedding in March of next year. After that, we don't have any plans, because cruising plans are always subject to change, but we might do Mexico (after the FL coast and keys, which we've jumped over every other time), or the WC, or, just come back to the Bahamas and work our way down to the EC... L8R Skip and Lydia -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Ping: Skippy!
On 7/15/2010 3:35 AM, Bloody Horvath wrote:
Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. Why try to promote your flavor of candidate? That's REALLY old-school now. Thanks to the activist Supreme Court's sweeping out of a hundred years of congressional efforts to prevent politicians being bought, who YOU want is not material - the question is: what does Business want? Brian W |
Ping: Skippy!
Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. Why try to promote your flavor of candidate? That's REALLY old-school now. Thanks to the activist Supreme Court's sweeping out of a hundred years of congressional efforts to prevent politicians being bought, who YOU want is not material - the question is: what does Business want? Brian W In twenty years OR LESS, there will be enough Muslims in America to elect the government _they_ want. And it won't be about business... |
Ping: Skippy!
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:35:33 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. Why try to promote your flavor of candidate? That's REALLY old-school now. Thanks to the activist Supreme Court's sweeping out of a hundred years of congressional efforts to prevent politicians being bought, who YOU want is not material - the question is: what does Business want? Brian W In twenty years OR LESS, there will be enough Muslims in America to elect the government _they_ want. And it won't be about business... That's exactly what the Conservative Party of the Native American Confederation said when Manhattan Island was sold to the White Eyes...... and they were right! Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Ping: Skippy!
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:35:33 -0500, cavelamb wrote: Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. Why try to promote your flavor of candidate? That's REALLY old-school now. Thanks to the activist Supreme Court's sweeping out of a hundred years of congressional efforts to prevent politicians being bought, who YOU want is not material - the question is: what does Business want? Brian W In twenty years OR LESS, there will be enough Muslims in America to elect the government _they_ want. And it won't be about business... That's exactly what the Conservative Party of the Native American Confederation said when Manhattan Island was sold to the White Eyes...... and they were right! Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) So, can I come over there with you??? -- Richard Lamb |
Ping: Skippy!
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:57:17 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: Bruce in Bangkok wrote: On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:35:33 -0500, cavelamb wrote: Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. Why try to promote your flavor of candidate? That's REALLY old-school now. Thanks to the activist Supreme Court's sweeping out of a hundred years of congressional efforts to prevent politicians being bought, who YOU want is not material - the question is: what does Business want? Brian W In twenty years OR LESS, there will be enough Muslims in America to elect the government _they_ want. And it won't be about business... That's exactly what the Conservative Party of the Native American Confederation said when Manhattan Island was sold to the White Eyes...... and they were right! Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) So, can I come over there with you??? Sure, of course you have No rights over here, being a foreigner. :-) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Skippy!
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... Perkins 4-154s in farm service regularly get that much time on them as well. As such, barring some excitement we can't foresee, as we've just gone over 4k hours on the rebuilt unit which was installed during a prior owner's time, following (presuming the hourmeter which was still in place when the new tach/hourmeter was installed was stopped on the exchange, or perhaps before) hard charter service of nearly 7 years, we expect we'll never get to the end of the life of our auxiliary propulsion unit. Make that 7000 hours, not 7 years... Sorry... At our current usage, at a current ~4k hours, it will take us another 12-15 years to get to the old hourmeter's reading, let alone 10KH L8R Skip, non-political so not following the meanderings... -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Skippy!
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... Hi, Willy :{)) All the jibes aside/ignored as your usual rabble-rousing, I'm impressed... Spoil sport! "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. A new 6HP saildrive unit for $1500. Now THAT's impressive. Not a saildrive. That would be about as bad as an inboard diesel. Lower end always in the water corroding away, needing zincs, needing scraping, right there for lobster and crab pot leaders to catch, slowing the boat down about a knot even if not snagged by anything. You should know better. An outboard on the transom which can be lifted completely out of the water is the ONLY way to go on a real sailboat. What you have is a motor sailer - not a sailboat. I'm afraid you'll never experience the joy of a real sailboat at the rate you're going. FWIW, even the little Honda genset which we do use occasionally when there's no wind and sun to allow my green reseources to charge us up/keep us full, has many users reporting upward of 10,000 hours. Sad that some people admit to having to run a generator that many hours. I wish people like that would stay home on the grid where they belong. There very existence in an anchorage is vexing to we considerate folk. Perkins 4-154s in farm service regularly get that much time on them as well. And the diesels in locomotives do better than that by far. So, what's the point other than an admission of extreme motor headedness? As such, barring some excitement we can't foresee, as we've just gone over 4k hours on the rebuilt unit which was installed during a prior owner's time, following (presuming the hourmeter which was still in place when the new tach/hourmeter was installed was stopped on the exchange, or perhaps before) hard charter service of nearly 7 years, we expect we'll never get to the end of the life of our auxiliary propulsion unit. Famous last words! But, you just refused to answer the questions. How disruptive is that going to be? Answer: very - at least a week or two's worth of disruption. How expensive? Answer: very - probably 10,000 dollars or more all told. That should tell you something, Skippy, which is you are in the same league with WayneB. Only he's more honest going stickless. He's an out-of-the-closet polluter and proud of it. While I abhor those producing large quantities of recreational pollution, I don't think being dishonest about doing the same is any less admirable. That said, parts for this unit are becoming a bit like hen's teeth, and a critical part failure could result in a repower. If so, I expect that we'd go to a Cummins unit which is pretty close to a drop-in. Pretty close = equals perhaps an extra two or three days sorting things out. Costs, of course, are an issue - but we have reserves for that specific purpose. Downtime would be about a day, as there are no exhangeable parts, and the mechanics of removal and replacement are pretty straightforward. A sistership just installed a rebuilt in less than a day, which is about what I'd expect for ours, should the day arrive. Downtime about a day? LOL. He'll you'll be lucky if it doesn't take more than a day getting towed to a yard to arrange to get hauled. In the Bahamas, mon, try two or three days or more. Be honest, Skippy, a repower will probably involve several weeks downtime much of that on the hard. Careful maintenance has us expecting a very long life on Perky... Keeping fingers crossed. smirk So, when are you going to come whip our sorry asses cruising the Bahamas? We'll be here, we expect, for almost another year, unless, when we come back in a couple of weeks, we decide to head further before coming back for a wedding in March of next year. Most certainly not in the summertime which is the worst time to cruise the Bahamas. Terribly fickle and shifty winds, almost daily thunder and lightning, hot, humid, bugs, chances good to receive a direct hit from a hurricane, few decent hurricane holes and even those are full of hazards from stupid boaters who don't have a clue as to how to secure their vessels. Coming back for a wedding? ROFLOL. Weddings are for women, Skippy. Does the distaff side there run the program? Wear the pants? Rule the roost? snickers After that, we don't have any plans, because cruising plans are always subject to change, but we might do Mexico (after the FL coast and keys, which we've jumped over every other time), or the WC, or, just come back to the Bahamas and work our way down to the EC... If you do cruise the Keys let me know. I'll buy you and the ball and chain a beer and give you a tour of the yacht so you'll finally have an inkling of what a real sailboat is all about. Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:38:06 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap: Not a saildrive. That would be about as bad as an inboard diesel. Lower end always in the water corroding away, needing zincs, needing scraping, right there for lobster and crab pot leaders to catch, slowing the boat down about a knot even if not snagged by anything. You should know better. An outboard on the transom which can be lifted completely out of the water is the ONLY way to go on a real sailboat. What you have is a motor sailer - not a sailboat. I'm afraid you'll never experience the joy of a real sailboat at the rate you're going. What a dumbass. Only the shaft and prop is in the water. The prop folds up so there is no drag. Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Skippy!
"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
... On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:38:06 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote this crap: Not a saildrive. That would be about as bad as an inboard diesel. Lower end always in the water corroding away, needing zincs, needing scraping, right there for lobster and crab pot leaders to catch, slowing the boat down about a knot even if not snagged by anything. You should know better. An outboard on the transom which can be lifted completely out of the water is the ONLY way to go on a real sailboat. What you have is a motor sailer - not a sailboat. I'm afraid you'll never experience the joy of a real sailboat at the rate you're going. What a dumbass. Only the shaft and prop is in the water. The prop folds up so there is no drag. Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- sail drive: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...1b00b7cb80fe03 Please look at the nice little pictures. Like I said, lower end and prop always in the water. The worst of both worlds. Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
-- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Flying Pig" wrote in message ... Hi, Willy :{)) All the jibes aside/ignored as your usual rabble-rousing, I'm impressed... Spoil sport! :{)) "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... I repowered my positive flotation, blue water, cruising yacht for $1,500. A new 6HP saildrive unit for $1500. Now THAT's impressive. Not a saildrive. That would be about as bad as an inboard diesel. My mistake, indeed. I somehow remembered "saildrive" - and, yet, a new 6hp at 1500 is pretty good, too... FWIW, even the little Honda genset which we do use occasionally when there's no wind and sun to allow my green reseources to charge us up/keep us full, has many users reporting upward of 10,000 hours. Sad that some people admit to having to run a generator that many hours. I wish people like that would stay home on the grid where they belong. There very existence in an anchorage is vexing to we considerate folk. The ones who are doing that are off-road campers, with all the comforts of home. It's not a matter of "have to" but "can" and get an amortized, with maintenance, cost of under a dime an hour. Famous last words! But, you just refused to answer the questions. How disruptive is that going to be? Answer: very - at least a week or two's worth of disruption. How expensive? Answer: very - probably 10,000 dollars or more all told. That should tell you something, Skippy, which is you are in the same league with WayneB. Only he's more honest going stickless. He's an out-of-the-closet polluter and proud of it. While I abhor those producing large quantities of recreational pollution, I don't think being dishonest about doing the same is any less admirable. Not quite. I gave you a direct comparison to our circumstance. About a day. That said, parts for this unit are becoming a bit like hen's teeth, and a critical part failure could result in a repower. If so, I expect that we'd go to a Cummins unit which is pretty close to a drop-in. Pretty close = equals perhaps an extra two or three days sorting things out. Maybe. But planning is everything :{)) There's no significant event (sail change, reef, anchoring etc.) which doesn't have a run-through with the Admiral beforehand. Costs, of course, are an issue - but we have reserves for that specific purpose. Downtime would be about a day, as there are no exhangeable parts, and the mechanics of removal and replacement are pretty straightforward. A sistership just installed a rebuilt in less than a day, which is about what I'd expect for ours, should the day arrive. Downtime about a day? LOL. He'll you'll be lucky if it doesn't take more than a day getting towed to a yard to arrange to get hauled. In the Bahamas, mon, try two or three days or more. Be honest, Skippy, a repower will probably involve several weeks downtime much of that on the hard. Fortunately, this, like most, doesn't fail catastrophically, but gives lots of clear warnings, along with gradual failure, well noticed in advance of actual need. Most 4-154 rebuilds or replacements are pre-emptive, rather than failures. As we're nearly as anal as you about when we turn on the engine, at the rate we're going, we'll likely have several years' warning of need. Careful maintenance has us expecting a very long life on Perky... Keeping fingers crossed. smirk Well, yes, just like every other piece of gear. Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was the cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure. Of course, I accept that another incompetant may have driven his much larger bow into your secured boom, forcing the break under pressure, or some similar event not in your control. Oh, I forgot - you'd have noticed him long before, and made sure, under admiralty law and regulation, to have avoided such a collision, even if you were the stand-on vessel. So, it must have been while you were away from the boat. So, which was it? So, when are you going to come whip our sorry asses cruising the Bahamas? We'll be here, we expect, for almost another year, unless, when we come back in a couple of weeks, we decide to head further before coming back for a wedding in March of next year. Most certainly not in the summertime which is the worst time to cruise the Bahamas. Terribly fickle and shifty winds, almost daily thunder and lightning, hot, humid, bugs, chances good to receive a direct hit from a hurricane, few decent hurricane holes and even those are full of hazards from stupid boaters who don't have a clue as to how to secure their vessels. Great timing. We'll be there for quite a while, well beyond the times you cite. If you do cruise the Keys let me know. I'll buy you and the ball and chain a beer and give you a tour of the yacht so you'll finally have an inkling of what a real sailboat is all about. You're on. Our expectation is to do the FL coast and keys, as we've jumped over them the three times we've been by them. See you in 2011, unless you chase us down first... L8R Skip and Lydia -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage. Stamp out Sesquipedalianism --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Skippy!
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... snipped some Maybe. But planning is everything :{)) There's no significant event (sail change, reef, anchoring etc.) which doesn't have a run-through with the Admiral beforehand. The Admiral isn't a very flattering name for Lydia, is it? snippage here too Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was the cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure. I was anchored in St. Augustine with a fellow single-hander who sails a 32-foot Allied SeaWind ketch. The wind was blowing half a gale out of the northeast and we decided it would be a good day to sail to Miami just inside the Stream current. I was beating my way out the relatively narrow inlet, was about halfway out the channel under working sail in very steep seas breaking on the bar and the tack prior to the breakage the boom swung over to the other side just as the bow slammed into a very steep sea almost stopping the boat dead in her tracks. When the boom fetched up on the close-hauled mainsheet which is attached to a traveler atop the coach roof the boom broke in two goosewinging the mainsail where the aft boom bale (mid-boom sheeting) was attached to it by four screws - two on either side. The holes for the screws apparently weakened the boom enough in that area that it allowed it to break there. Now, with the GIP inside as a sleeve and with the boom bales machine screwed into the GIP (drilled and tapped into the GIP through the aluminum) the system is much stronger than it originally was. Replacing the boom with the same extrusion would have been just another accident waiting to happen. This way the boom is stronger than ever and no hardware hassles such as locating another gooseneck and end fitting for a larger extrusion, etc. were experienced. Of course, I accept that another incompetant may have driven his much larger bow into your secured boom, forcing the break under pressure, or some similar event not in your control. Oh, I forgot - you'd have noticed him long before, and made sure, under admiralty law and regulation, to have avoided such a collision, even if you were the stand-on vessel. So, it must have been while you were away from the boat. LOL Unlike non-sailors, I stress my boat to the max under sail. The single-hander on the Allied and I used to sail out of West Palm Beach regulary for a rowdy daysail in the Gulf Stream when small craft advisories where in effect. And we didn't motor. We sailed out and we sailed back. Now, since you use your motor all the freaking time you might not understand the beauty of sailing the anchor out, sailing out the inlet, sailing in a small craft advisory most of the day in the Gulf Stream, sailing back, sailing into the inlet and anchoring under sail. But, that is my idea of sailing. Even the Allied captain had his motor running as a 'backup' in and out the inlets and when anchoring but my motor was in the up position because I know my boat handles better under balanced working sail than under engine so what's the use of an engine when the winds are reliable small craft advisory strength? Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
"WaIIy" wrote in message
... On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:43:44 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Now, with the GIP inside as a sleeve and with the boom bales machine screwed into the GIP (drilled and tapped into the GIP through the aluminum) the system is much stronger than it originally was. Replacing the boom with the same extrusion would have been just another accident waiting to happen. This way the boom is stronger than ever and no hardware hassles such as locating another gooseneck and end fitting for a larger extrusion, etc. were experienced. You're such a freakin' hammer mechanic. Simply not so! Like, for example, the aluminum boom extrusion in cross section is egg shaped. Now how does one fill, strengthen and support an egg-shaped cross section with a round pipe? Answer: One cannot. So what does one do? One uses three galvanized pipes. One large one to fit the round end of the egg shape and two smaller pipes to fit the pointed spaces that remain. One chooses sizes that fit snugly but don't have to be hammered home. That's not hammer mechanicing; that's engineering. The three pipes where coated with slippery silicone rubber sealant before being slid home. You have your pee-pee size little boat with a duct taped refridgerator, etc and pretend to be a sailor. Electrical tape, inch wide professional quality electrical tape! Again, the refrigerator is repaired better than new. It took the original aluminum tubing of the evaporator four years to corrode and develop pinholes whereby the refrigerant leaked out. Now, with the tightly wrapped tubing completedly sealed from the elements not only are the pinholes stopped from leaking but further corrosion is also stopped. Successful sailors are clever, enterprising and ingenious. We think out of the box and never believe any lubberly ideas - ideas like if the refrigerator breaks then throw it away and buy a new one. That's a workable solution for lubberly dummies who have more money than brains but for we frugal sailors who enjoy using our hands and brains, the better way to go is to fix things and fix them better than they were to begin with. I must admit you can be amusing once in a great while. It's quite revealing as to the lubberly thought process when one of them confuses initiative, creativity and enterprise with humor. Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:15:11 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "WaIIy" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:43:44 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Now, with the GIP inside as a sleeve and with the boom bales machine screwed into the GIP (drilled and tapped into the GIP through the aluminum) the system is much stronger than it originally was. Replacing the boom with the same extrusion would have been just another accident waiting to happen. This way the boom is stronger than ever and no hardware hassles such as locating another gooseneck and end fitting for a larger extrusion, etc. were experienced. You're such a freakin' hammer mechanic. Simply not so! Like, for example, the aluminum boom extrusion in cross section is egg shaped. Now how does one fill, strengthen and support an egg-shaped cross section with a round pipe? Answer: One cannot. So what does one do? One uses three galvanized pipes. One large one to fit the round end of the egg shape and two smaller pipes to fit the pointed spaces that remain. One chooses sizes that fit snugly but don't have to be hammered home. That's not hammer mechanicing; that's engineering. The three pipes where coated with slippery silicone rubber sealant before being slid home. You are correct - it is not "hammer mechanicing" (whatever that is) it is called, in the trade, "Shade Tree Engineering" and is carried out by people without a clue as to what they are doing. You seem to be saying that in order to attach a fitting to an aluminum boom that, somehow, the boom must be reinforced with internal tubes - three in your case. Strange that the millions of sail boats presently on the water all don't have three joints of water pipe stuffed in the boom. In fact the vast majority have no reinforcement in the boom, just properly designed fittings bolted to the boom. If you want some added evidence that aluminum beams do not require reinforcement with water pipe you might look at the aviation industry. In the twenty-some years I worked on aircraft I never saw a single spar or beam with a galvanized pipe reinforcement, and I worked on some of the more advanced aircraft of that period. You have your pee-pee size little boat with a duct taped refridgerator, etc and pretend to be a sailor. Electrical tape, inch wide professional quality electrical tape! Again, the refrigerator is repaired better than new. It took the original aluminum tubing of the evaporator four years to corrode and develop pinholes whereby the refrigerant leaked out. Now, with the tightly wrapped tubing completedly sealed from the elements not only are the pinholes stopped from leaking but further corrosion is also stopped. Strange... I had a fridge in my sail boat. Put it in about 15 years ago and, as of the time I sold the boat, a month ago, never had to service or top up the refrigerant. Obviously you had a **** poor installation (probably using galvanized water pipe) that caused the corrosion. Successful sailors are clever, enterprising and ingenious. We think out of the box and never believe any lubberly ideas - ideas like if the refrigerator breaks then throw it away and buy a new one. That's a workable solution for lubberly dummies who have more money than brains but for we frugal sailors who enjoy using our hands and brains, the better way to go is to fix things and fix them better than they were to begin with. You might be using your hands but the other part of your claim is highly questionable, or at least not demonstrated to date. I must admit you can be amusing once in a great while. It's quite revealing as to the lubberly thought process when one of them confuses initiative, creativity and enterprise with humor. Wilbur Hubbard Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Ping: Skippy!
On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:16:21 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: Bruce in Bangkok wrote: On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:57:17 -0500, cavelamb wrote: Bruce in Bangkok wrote: On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:35:33 -0500, cavelamb wrote: Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares. I'm Horvath and I approve of this post. Why try to promote your flavor of candidate? That's REALLY old-school now. Thanks to the activist Supreme Court's sweeping out of a hundred years of congressional efforts to prevent politicians being bought, who YOU want is not material - the question is: what does Business want? Brian W In twenty years OR LESS, there will be enough Muslims in America to elect the government _they_ want. And it won't be about business... That's exactly what the Conservative Party of the Native American Confederation said when Manhattan Island was sold to the White Eyes...... and they were right! Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) So, can I come over there with you??? Sure, of course you have No rights over here, being a foreigner. :-) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) I don't think that will be all that different from her before long... With the exception that here, where people are more honest, there is no bones made about what you were put on this earth for.... to support the locals through your financial contributories. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Skippy!
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Skippy!
wrote in message
... snip It should be pointed out that Wilbur BROKE his boom by attemting to install mid-boom sheeting on a rig not strong enough to allow it. The Coronado has the minimum of everything. It was a price-point boat aimed at entry level sailors of limited means. Sort of like the Yugo. Wrong again! It should be pointed out that I bought the boat with mid-boom sheeting installed. It was installed at the factory as proven by the illustrations in the owner's manual. Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:38:54 -0400, wrote: It should be pointed out that Wilbur BROKE his boom by attemting to install mid-boom sheeting on a rig not strong enough to allow it. That doesn't seem very seamanlike does it? It's even less seamanlike to believe anything a pretender like salty dog posts . . . Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
"WaIIy" wrote in message
... On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:15:11 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Electrical tape, inch wide professional quality electrical tape! Again, the refrigerator is repaired better than new. It took the original aluminum tubing of the evaporator four years to corrode and develop pinholes whereby the refrigerant leaked out. Now, with the tightly wrapped tubing completedly sealed from the elements not only are the pinholes stopped from leaking but further corrosion is also stopped. I apologize for my snide comment on the electrical tape. My Pinto was making noise so I wrapped some electrical tape around the muffler. My car is now quiet, but smells funny. Next time use some of that sticky-back aluminum tape normally sold for air conditioner ducts. It works great on mufflers. Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
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Skippy!
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:42:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:38:54 -0400, wrote: It should be pointed out that Wilbur BROKE his boom by attemting to install mid-boom sheeting on a rig not strong enough to allow it. That doesn't seem very seamanlike does it? It's even less seamanlike to believe anything a pretender like salty dog posts . . . Wilbur Hubbard Oh? Are you saying that you didn't break your boom? Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
Skippy!
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
... On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:42:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:38:54 -0400, wrote: It should be pointed out that Wilbur BROKE his boom by attemting to install mid-boom sheeting on a rig not strong enough to allow it. That doesn't seem very seamanlike does it? It's even less seamanlike to believe anything a pretender like salty dog posts . . . Wilbur Hubbard Oh? Are you saying that you didn't break your boom? Do you have reading comprehension problems. Salty Dog said my boom broke because I did an amateur job of installing mid-boom sheeting. I put that lie (or speculation) to rest by posting that the mid-boom sheeting was installed at the factory and was original with the boat. Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
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Skippy!
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Flying Pig" wrote in message ... Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was the cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure. I was anchored in St. Augustine with a fellow single-hander who sails a 32-foot Allied SeaWind ketch. The wind was blowing half a gale out of the northeast and we decided it would be a good day to sail to Miami just inside the Stream current. I was beating my way out the relatively narrow inlet, was about halfway out the channel under working sail in very steep seas breaking on the bar and the tack prior to the breakage the boom swung over to the other side just as the bow slammed into a very steep sea almost stopping the boat dead in her tracks. When the boom fetched up on the close-hauled mainsheet which is attached to a traveler atop the coach roof the boom broke in two goosewinging the mainsail where the aft boom bale (mid-boom sheeting) was attached to it by four screws - two on either side. The holes for the screws apparently weakened the boom enough in that area that it allowed it to break there. So, you're saying you don't do a regular review of your equipment to notice weak spots, and that failure led to an equipment failure which caused you to have to motor ignominiously back to the dock (or anchorage, or mooring, whichever it was at the time) in "interesting" conditions... Oh, I forgot. You sailed back. Well, of course, in such winds, the jib or genny was plenty to drive you home, and easier to douse when you're ready to stop. Hm... I'll still take your tour of the Keys... L8R Skip, less than a week away from being back home -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Skippy!
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
... "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Flying Pig" wrote in message ... Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was the cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure. I was anchored in St. Augustine with a fellow single-hander who sails a 32-foot Allied SeaWind ketch. The wind was blowing half a gale out of the northeast and we decided it would be a good day to sail to Miami just inside the Stream current. I was beating my way out the relatively narrow inlet, was about halfway out the channel under working sail in very steep seas breaking on the bar and the tack prior to the breakage the boom swung over to the other side just as the bow slammed into a very steep sea almost stopping the boat dead in her tracks. When the boom fetched up on the close-hauled mainsheet which is attached to a traveler atop the coach roof the boom broke in two goosewinging the mainsail where the aft boom bale (mid-boom sheeting) was attached to it by four screws - two on either side. The holes for the screws apparently weakened the boom enough in that area that it allowed it to break there. So, you're saying you don't do a regular review of your equipment to notice weak spots, and that failure led to an equipment failure which caused you to have to motor ignominiously back to the dock (or anchorage, or mooring, whichever it was at the time) in "interesting" conditions... Sorry, but I don't have a magnaflux machine on board to regularly inspect my extrusions and standing rigging. Oh, I forgot. You sailed back. Well, of course, in such winds, the jib or genny was plenty to drive you home, and easier to douse when you're ready to stop. You got it. I simply came about and ran downwind under headsail and folded mainsail till the first barrier island where I turned to port and anchored under sail in the lee. No fuss no muss. I got underway the next day after going into town to secure the necessary materials. I'll still take your tour of the Keys... I never said anything about a tour of the Keys. I believe I might have mentioned showing you a real blue water cruiser and buying you a beer. I can give you some local knowledge so maybe you can better stay off the reefs and bars. lol Wilbur Hubbard |
Skippy!
"Flying Pig" wrote in news:i2a1pb$i14$1
@adenine.netfront.net: Skip, less than a week away from being back home Skip, are you aboard the boat in the middle of the tropical storm? -- iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships. Larry |
Skippy!
"Larry" wrote in message
... "Flying Pig" wrote in news:i2a1pb$i14$1 @adenine.netfront.net: Skip, are you aboard the boat in the middle of the tropical storm? No, we're ashore, returning on Wednesday night. The boat's up a canal system in Leisure Lee, just south of Treasure Island. We've been watching this (and anything else of potential interest) closely during our time ashore, of course. From the most recent tropical update: THE TROPICAL STORM WARNING FOR THE CENTRAL BAHAMAS HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED. Thanks for asking. The worst local forecast had high 20s ending today, going back to mid-teens/low 20s in the next couple of days, and then into low double digits leading to mid single-digit breezes by a week from now. Meanwhile, Lydia's in Charleston, shopping for wedding stuff... L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Skippy!
Hi, Wilbur!
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Sorry, but I don't have a magnaflux machine on board to regularly inspect my extrusions and standing rigging. Of course not - nothing fancy on your bluewater cruiser! However, I've found that a regular inspection of all attachments and connected parts usually gives pretty fair warning of failure. It was just such inspection that caused us to go to new standing rigging last summer. A tink or two with a small striking instrument tells a great deal about sheets (think of the boom surface as a sheet of aluminum) of metal, not to mention decks and other supposedly solid surfaces. I rather expect that such effort might have given you fair warning of your failure. OTOH, you have a self-proclaimed greatly stoutened rig, now. What did all that extra weight do to your heeling moment, not to mention the momentum of the boom as it swings? How long are those GIPs? You got it. I simply came about and ran downwind under headsail and folded mainsail till the first barrier island where I turned to port and anchored under sail in the lee. No fuss no muss. I got underway the next day after going into town to secure the necessary materials. Did you swim, or do you have a dink aboard? I never said anything about a tour of the Keys. I believe I might have mentioned showing you a real blue water cruiser and buying you a beer. I can give you some local knowledge so maybe you can better stay off the reefs and bars. lol The only bars I make it a point to stay off are the ones which are noisy and generate mostly alcohol sales :{)) That said, Navionics promises that they have much updated charts soon to arrive for our plotter, so perhaps their multiple uncharted reefs and shoals in the Bahamas might now be shown, and the FL area better (though I've heard from other cruisers that the Navionics US charts are spot-on). That said, another cruising buddy just posted in a mailing list about his unintentional careening off Sandy Hook in NJ, on a sand bar which wasn't there in the most recent update to that area's charts, so I understand that shifting sand is always a crap shoot, and CURRENT (like within the last couple of days) local knowledge always beats a chart of unknown provenance... L8R Skip -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
Skippy!
"Flying Pig" wrote in news:i2c8g7$25ju$1
@adenine.netfront.net: Meanwhile, Lydia's in Charleston, shopping for wedding stuff... Hey! We appreciate bringing any Yankee money you can spare and spending it in our stores. Thanks! -- iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships. Larry |
Skippy!
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:33:45 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote: That said, another cruising buddy just posted in a mailing list about his unintentional careening off Sandy Hook in NJ, on a sand bar which wasn't there in the most recent update to that area's charts That area of Sandy Hook has always been dangerous and the chart usually says something about "shoaling reported". My guess is that he was trying to maneuver in close for a better look at the clothing optional beach. |
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