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Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
http://www.sail- world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship-
Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633 Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss. Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but it does make sense. Wrong place at the wrong time. |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Feb 21, 6:42*am, "mmc" wrote:
http://www.sail-world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship- Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633 Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss. Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but it does make sense. Wrong place at the wrong time. White Squall See the movie bob |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
"mmc" wrote in message
ng.com... http://www.sail- world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship- Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633 Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss. Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but it does make sense. Wrong place at the wrong time. I sure wish people would learn how to post links that actually point to something. Something as simple as copying and pasting a link seems to be beyond the intelligence of way too many folks these days. . . Sad. Wilbur Hubbard |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Feb 21, 1:25*pm, Bob wrote:
White Squall See the movie bob You would suggest a Hollywood movie as having anything credible to contribute to this question? You never cease to amaze me Bob. Reading this about the subject of the movie would be more useful: http://books.google.com/books?id=XHR...um=2&ct=result Sorry, long link. Hope it works. You may have to cut and paste. If it doesn't work, look for the "Read About it Here" link on this page: http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Stability.htm The "Albatross" had just about the same stability characteristics as the "Marques". In the big study I did for ASTA and the Coast Guard, all the vessels we could get data on that hadn't capsized plotted in a group up in the top right hand corner of the graphs. "Albatross", "Marques", and another vessel that had also capsized were down in a group in the lower left with lots of white space in between. There were no other vessels down there that had not capsized. It didn't take a microburst in those cases. When sailing at a normal heel angle with the deckedge about at the waterline, the "Marques" only needed a 22% increase in wind speed to capsize her. "Albatross" was about the same. -- Roger Long |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... On Feb 21, 1:25 pm, Bob wrote: White Squall See the movie bob You would suggest a Hollywood movie as having anything credible to contribute to this question? You never cease to amaze me Bob. Reading this about the subject of the movie would be more useful: http://books.google.com/books?id=XHR...um=2&ct=result Sorry, long link. Hope it works. You may have to cut and paste. If it doesn't work, look for the "Read About it Here" link on this page: http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Stability.htm The "Albatross" had just about the same stability characteristics as the "Marques". In the big study I did for ASTA and the Coast Guard, all the vessels we could get data on that hadn't capsized plotted in a group up in the top right hand corner of the graphs. "Albatross", "Marques", and another vessel that had also capsized were down in a group in the lower left with lots of white space in between. There were no other vessels down there that had not capsized. It didn't take a microburst in those cases. When sailing at a normal heel angle with the deckedge about at the waterline, the "Marques" only needed a 22% increase in wind speed to capsize her. "Albatross" was about the same. -- Roger Long ------------ Never saw the "Perfect Storm" either. After reading the authors admissions that he knew nothing about the sea or boats, reading his imaginary scenario about how the boat went down and his less than respectfull descriptions of the people involved, I didn't just put the book down but threw it in the trash. If Hollywood followed reality they'd never sell any tickets. How's it going Roger? |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Feb 21, 4:37*pm, "mmc" wrote:
How's it going Roger? Going good. I'm designing a very cool boat for a company in China and starting to inquiries about work that indicate that the economy is showing signs of life. I was going to take a winter off from working on my boat but I've had to put off my planned grand tour of Nova Scotia another year due to some family stuff. I'm taking advantage of the more relaxed schedule in the spring to undertake the major project of putting a rather interesting heating system in the boat. Details he http://www.rogerlongboats.com/10Winter.htm "Perfect Storm" is actually quite a good book if you simply cut all the reported wave heights in half. Someone I used to work for did the stability test on the boat and he told me he didn't think she ever saw the storm. She had probably rolled over and sunk long before it had built up into anything remarkable. How are things in your corner of the world? -- Roger Long |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:04:25 -0800 (PST), Roger Long
wrote: When sailing at a normal heel angle with the deckedge about at the waterline, the "Marques" only needed a 22% increase in wind speed to capsize her. "Albatross" was about the same. Once they get knocked down, do they stay down ? I used to race on a Ultra Light Sport Boat that was like that. You'd be sitting there on the rail, thinking about going out on the keel, saying to yourself: "It should pop back up any second now." After you said that 4 or 5 times, and rejected the notion of going out on the keel, it would in fact pop back up. |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
"mmc" wrote in message
ng.com... http://www.sail- world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship- Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633 Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss. Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but it does make sense. Two ships that I happen to know of: Pride of Baltimore, a replica of a 19th century Baltimore Clipper schooner, went down from a microburst near Bermuda in 1986. Her first mate at the time, Sugar Flanagan, is a personal friend, and can usually be found right down the dock from me on his current boat, the Alden schooner Alcyone, sailing out of Port Townsend, WA, on charter. The story of their survival and rescue is a real epic. He and the Pride's cook at the time, Leslie McNish, resolved to marry if they survived - they were in the raft at the time, you understand - and some time after they were rescued by a Norwegian freighter they were married in Maine, where Sugar was from and where his family resided. They now have two beautiful teenage daughters. Another was one of Irving Johnson's Yankees, a 98-foot steel pilot schooner, rigged at the time as I recall as a brigantine, which under later ownership was taken down the same way in the South Pacific. For many years afterwards the hull lay up on one of the South Pacific reefs, and for all I know might still be there. He owned and skippered two different Yankees and both of them came to bad ends in later ownership, but the one I'm describing was not the one that Mick Burke of Windjammer Cruises (may their name be cursed) ended up owning. That one just suffered from some of their usual bad management and dragged anchor in a blow and ended up on a reef in Rarotonga. The White Squall movie was kind of over-dramatized, but the events from which it was drawn really happened. Tom Dacon |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Feb 22, 12:42*am, "Tom Dacon" wrote:
Two ships that I happen to know of: Neither of those was a microburst. I was up to my eyebrows in the POB event. The captain send down right after the event to deal with things and find out what happened called me from the airport before he even spoke to the board to get some insights on the stability angle to assist his briefing. I later spoke to the man who discovered microbursts and gave them their name. He assured me that there were no conditions out there at the time that could have caused one although there was unstable weather that could create sudden increases in wind. I have the full stability history on the vessel in my files. The "Albatross" didn't need a microburst to sink her. See above and read "Tall Ships Down". She is one of those ships that it is amazing that it got as far as it did before capsizing. I have the complete set of Dutch construction plans, and complete plans for the conversion, including a very competently performed stability test, to base this opinion on. She was the best documented vessel we were able to get data on for the ASTA / USCG study that was used to develop the SSV stability regulations. -- Roger Long |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Feb 21, 6:40*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
Once they get knocked down, do they stay down ? It depends on the stability characteristics which are highly variable from ship to ship. Loading and ballasting can change the answer to that question even on the same vessel. -- Roger Long |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... On Feb 21, 4:37 pm, "mmc" wrote: How's it going Roger? Going good. I'm designing a very cool boat for a company in China and starting to inquiries about work that indicate that the economy is showing signs of life. I was going to take a winter off from working on my boat but I've had to put off my planned grand tour of Nova Scotia another year due to some family stuff. I'm taking advantage of the more relaxed schedule in the spring to undertake the major project of putting a rather interesting heating system in the boat. Details he http://www.rogerlongboats.com/10Winter.htm "Perfect Storm" is actually quite a good book if you simply cut all the reported wave heights in half. Someone I used to work for did the stability test on the boat and he told me he didn't think she ever saw the storm. She had probably rolled over and sunk long before it had built up into anything remarkable. How are things in your corner of the world? -- Roger Long ---------- Strider is looking great! Like the plan for the cabin/water heater too. Our weather here in FL has finally come to reflect what we expect in the winter, weekend was beautiful, mid 70s and clear. Took our pontoon out for an island visit with the kids on Saturday. About "Perfect Storm", I have a real problem with people who don't know what happened/where/how or why projecting thier ideas and opinions as facts. See it all to much in Gov't and contracting. |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Feb 24, 10:41*pm, Larry wrote:
*Our problem in South Carolina is getting a cold drink. *Heating water for a shower just means leaving the sun beating down on the lazerette where the hot water tank is located and watching the hose so it doesn't boil to blow the system. Was that true last Nov Dec? Sounds like I would have wanted this heater all the way to FL if I had been heading down the ICW after hurricane season this year. -- Roger Long |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:08:49 -0800 (PST), Roger Long
wrote: On Feb 24, 10:41*pm, Larry wrote: *Our problem in South Carolina is getting a cold drink. *Heating water for a shower just means leaving the sun beating down on the lazerette where the hot water tank is located and watching the hose so it doesn't boil to blow the system. Was that true last Nov Dec? Sounds like I would have wanted this heater all the way to FL if I had been heading down the ICW after hurricane season this year. I once spent a winter in South Carolina courtesy of the US Army. It can get very cold there in January/February, and this year Florida hasn't been much better. |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
Roger Long wrote in
: On Feb 24, 10:41*pm, Larry wrote: *Our problem in South Carolina is getting a cold drink. *Heating water for a shower just means leaving the sun beating d own on the lazerette where the hot water tank is located and watching the hos e so it doesn't boil to blow the system. Was that true last Nov Dec? Sounds like I would have wanted this heater all the way to FL if I had been heading down the ICW after hurricane season this year. -- Roger Long You'd want a full blown diesel genset running at 3/4 load today. It's only 6C at 1738ET on the Ashley River at Magnolia Gardens as I type this and the wind has been howling all day. Of course, sailing in such wind, we'd be warm as toast watching the handrail dragging in the water listening to the sheets groaning as she passes her old speed record, her winch handle a really hard turn in low gear....(c;]....smiling from ear to ear. Who'd notice the cold when she's hauling ass?! -- "iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry |
Tall Ship Concordia sunk of coast of Brazil
Wayne.B wrote in
: I once spent a winter in South Carolina courtesy of the US Army. It can get very cold there in January/February, and this year Florida hasn't been much better. You're about as far North as I'd want to be in all this "global warming" of 2010. I was going to clean out my old '73 Mercedes 220D so its new owner can come get it, but had to abort as my fingers were freezing in the full gale blowing across the Ashley River and up the driveway. It's 6C at 17:43 and I can hear the wind howling, still, through the roof. The river looks like the surface of the ocean with full waves beating the docks. -- "iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry |
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