Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages. Can't say I blame them for feeling
that way.
Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.
They have to spin up pretty high under load.
Another issue is they exhaust to the air.

The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but
given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not.
A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture.
The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while
underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps
detached and stowed.
So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled
9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor.
A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility.
There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical
connections.
Perhaps with salt water intrusion.
Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port.
OEM O/B warranty is gone of course.
Don't know. That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands.
Let me know what you think. Anybody. I'm sure I'm not the first to
think about this.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Jul 13, 9:58*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. *Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages. *Can't say I blame them for feeling
that way.
Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.
They have to spin up pretty high under load.
Another issue is they exhaust to the air.

The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but
given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not.
A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture.
The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while
underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps
detached and stowed.
So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled
9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor.
A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility.
There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical
connections.
Perhaps with salt water intrusion.
Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port.
OEM O/B warranty is gone of course.
Don't know. *That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands.
Let me know what you think. *Anybody. *I'm sure I'm not the first to
think about this.

--Vic

Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?
2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).
3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?
4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

David

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Frogwatch wrote:


UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.


I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

That's a major part of it but the mechanical noise is also
significant.

2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

They seem to be showing up mostly on boats that do not have
permanently installed generators, no other pattern that I've seen. One
of the most annoying that we've encountered was on a 30 something
powerboat that was apparently running it for refrigeration. The boat
was on a mooring next to ours for several days and the generator was
being run more than half the time.

3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

No, a fair number of inboard sailboats also have them. They're OK if
used only for emergency charging or repairs.

4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Possibly but it's hard to say without some testing.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:


Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

Just part of it. There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to
the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things.
There are harmonics elements thrown in too.
Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. That also limits
sound-deadening cowling.

2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually
space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents
it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least
resistance.

3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB
alts. 6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up
a bit. Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those
Honda gensets on boats.
Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put
to more use.

4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is
from the water and back pressure issues. Besides, that's only part of
the problem.

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of
producing amps than the Honda gensets.
I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity,
or the mechanical engineering stuff.
Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an
attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C
in Florida or other hell hot places.

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

Cool. Good luck with that. Good to hear you got inspired by altruism
instead of money. Money usually follows anyway. Entrepreneurship
comes in all shapes.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it.
And like I said, it's surely been thought of before.
I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Jul 13, 11:33*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
Questions:

1: *Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

Just part of it. *There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to
the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things.
There are harmonics elements thrown in too.
Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. *That also limits
sound-deadening cowling.

2: *Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually
space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents
it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least
resistance.

3: *Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB
alts. *6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up
a bit. *Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those
Honda gensets on boats.
Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put
to more use. *

4: *Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is
from the water and back pressure issues. *Besides, that's only part of
the problem.

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. *Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? *This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. *I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. *You might have a winner here. *However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of
producing amps than the Honda gensets.
I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity,
or the mechanical engineering stuff.
Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an
attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C
in Florida or other hell hot places.

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

Cool. *Good luck with that. *Good to hear you got inspired by altruism
instead of money. *Money usually follows anyway. *Entrepreneurship
comes in all shapes.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. *Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it.
And like I said, it's surely been thought of before.
I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one.

--Vic

Altruism? Whats that?

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:


UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.


I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:39:09 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:



Altruism? Whats that?

What you'll tell your wife.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:58:22 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages. Can't say I blame them for feeling
that way.
Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.
They have to spin up pretty high under load.
Another issue is they exhaust to the air.

The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but
given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not.
A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture.
The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while
underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps
detached and stowed.
So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled
9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor.
A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility.
There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical
connections.
Perhaps with salt water intrusion.
Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port.
OEM O/B warranty is gone of course.
Don't know. That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands.
Let me know what you think. Anybody. I'm sure I'm not the first to
think about this.

--Vic

A sailboat in the size range that would have an outboard, does not
usually have the sort of systems aboard that would require all that
power. Nor would they want them.

The exception might be multihulls, but those are closer to power boats
in many respects, including the personality types that are drawn to
them.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.

I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic


Unlikely. Galileo was a genius. Frogwatch is...a frog. And even if Loogy
kisses him, he won't turn into a prince. I'd trust the team at Dartmouth
to develop the right stuff, and Froggy to develop...a boat any fool
could manufacture using only empty cardboard boxes, a red Swingline
stapler, and his "magic spray" that turns the cardboard into a substance
with all the strength and durability of toilet paper.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:07 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:


UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.


I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic

A bite on an obvious troll.
--

John H

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Jul 14, 9:05*am, Just John Again wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:07 -0500, Vic Smith



wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.

I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic

A bite on an obvious troll.
--

John H

Halyards against masts(not shrouds), a noise I quickly stop hearing
although it drives others crazy. Most of the time you can minimize it
simply by pulling the halyard tight. I always forget to do this.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:57:27 -0700, Jim wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

That's the one usually mentioned, because they are the most common,
because from most accounts they are the best. Wasn't knocking Honda.
That's what I'd get.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

Mind you, I know about this only from reading, and the Honda's are
sometimes specifically mentioned.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

I'd have a similar setup on a bigger boat with an internal diesel.
And also have solar and perhaps wind.
But my boating plans will likely end with OB power, and my post about
OB's with better charging output was in that vein. That way I could
easily do without a dedicated generator.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

I agree "not desirable." The "not necessary" is harder to pin down.
I don't know where you boat/sail, but reading journals of Caribbean
and Florida cruisers (Florida is where I'll be) there are plenty of
complaints about droning generators running almost constantly,
including all night.
The heat can be brutal, and though my wife is hardy, it may be
necessary to provide a respite with A/C. Not that I don't appreciate
a cooling off myself, but with her no respite from sweating could be a
deal killer.
My intent there is to use the smallest home unit and cool only a berth
area. How I would do that is another subject.
But having limited A/C was the reason behind my initial post.
Duty cycle would be light, but the amps might be impossible to
replace practically with a small OB alternator.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Yet those running them often complain about the gas generators on
decks, and say their gensets are almost dead silent.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

Add TV's, microwaves, walk-in reefers, etc.
Not anything I want to do. But I appreciate a good night's sleep
at less than 90 degrees.
BTW, if you search a bit for Hondas and cruisers, you might be
surprised to find how many small sailboats with alts attached to
diesels use the Honda's often enough because they don't want to run
the inboard, for one reason or another.
So though you and I may agree about keeping electric power consumption
low, others disagree.
I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.
For a short trip sleeping on deck is a possibility, but I think when
you get to week you want to dive into a cool berth when nightime
temps stay high, below decks is hotter, and it's raining.
I'm willing to torture myself a bit - but I'm a man.
My wife has a different psychological makeup.
Thank God for that!

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:25:42 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:


What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?

I was thinking about you being down there in Texas and wonder how you
handle exactly that.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very
annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?


Sweat.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:57:27 -0700, Jim wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

Well I don't drink coffee so there wouldn't be a coffee maker.

But dude - gotta have air conditioning. :)

Don't leave home without it.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Capt. JG wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.
What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very
annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.
What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?


Sweat.


Or mount the AC and run the generator - like everybody else would do - if they
were out here...

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.

That's a good question and I can partially answer it - A/C. My son
has been using the Grady which has A/C in the step down. From what
he's told me, it gets hot there even at night when the temps are in
the high 70s. No cross ventilation in the cuddy. I can speak to the
cuddy being a little uncomfortable when I took it down to Charleston a
couple of months ago.

http://www.gradywhite.com/336/ - click on the cabin tour.

And we've got a Honda EU3000i on the boat to run the A/C.

I'll give you a personal evaluation when I go down in August. :)

For a short trip sleeping on deck is a possibility, but I think when
you get to week you want to dive into a cool berth when nightime
temps stay high, below decks is hotter, and it's raining.
I'm willing to torture myself a bit - but I'm a man.

Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only
got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate
the cold and I hate the heat.

I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees
which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :)

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.

You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

There are a couple of things that help.

Shade is life. A tarp over the boom can reduce cabin temps 20 degrees
or more.

A wash down pump can be used to spray water on the hull and decks to cool them.
That's necessary even when the AC is being used or the boat will never shake off
the noon day sun.

But the real way is you simply acclimate to the heat.
I don't normally complain at 100 degrees - until it's 100 for thirty
days in a row. Then, I figure we've earned bragging rights.

It takes a few weeks out in the heat, proper diet and hydration, and some guts.

People lived her for hundreds of years before Mr. Collins figured out his
apparatus for treating the air...




Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.

That's a good question and I can partially answer it - A/C. My son
has been using the Grady which has A/C in the step down. From what
he's told me, it gets hot there even at night when the temps are in
the high 70s. No cross ventilation in the cuddy. I can speak to the
cuddy being a little uncomfortable when I took it down to Charleston a
couple of months ago.

http://www.gradywhite.com/336/ - click on the cabin tour.

And we've got a Honda EU3000i on the boat to run the A/C.

I'll give you a personal evaluation when I go down in August. :)

For a short trip sleeping on deck is a possibility, but I think when
you get to week you want to dive into a cool berth when nightime
temps stay high, below decks is hotter, and it's raining.
I'm willing to torture myself a bit - but I'm a man.

Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only
got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate
the cold and I hate the heat.

I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees
which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :)

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.

You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.



Whata wus.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:06:29 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.

You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.

I took that to heart the first time you told me.
And I intend to have it, if only on a limited scale for sleeping.
But despite that being a general rule, some acclimate better than
others.
After all, there were people living there before A/C.
My dad's family lived there for 4 years in the '20's.
Mostly Daytona and the Keys. Of course Daytona is on the Atlantic.
But my uncle and his wife lived for many years in a duplex on a canal
in Cape Coral. No A/C, just fans.
Not my cuppa, but some do it just fine.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:01:27 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

That Grady is more boat than I'll have, and I"ll have to tackle A/C
differently.

Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only
got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate
the cold and I hate the heat.

I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees
which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :)

That's how my wife is, and she bitches when it gets out of that range.
Funny thing is she's slim, and when I slim up heat hardly bothers me
at all.
I think a lot of it is psychological, maybe based on experience.
Not to say your thermostat can't get messed up.
I know I can control a lot of the "discomfort" by setting my state of
mind, and using a few tricks.
Maybe because I spent years in a 120 degree boiler room and then spent
some years almost as hot as a heat treater, then some years working
outside in record cold winters.
Gives your mind something to work with when the temps are a bit hot or
cold. Then your body catches up.
A cool drink or hot toddy does help. Those are tricks.
Still haven't found a good trick to stop her bitching though.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:15 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

There are a couple of things that help.

Shade is life. A tarp over the boom can reduce cabin temps 20 degrees
or more.

A wash down pump can be used to spray water on the hull and decks to cool them.
That's necessary even when the AC is being used or the boat will never shake off
the noon day sun.

Thanks. Hadn't seen that trick before. Or forgot.

But the real way is you simply acclimate to the heat.

That's what I've found. And it happens pretty quick for me.
Found out for sure when my car A/C broke down there once.
A new schedule avoiding the high sun got us right in 2 days.
Found we cranked the A/C in our suite up to 85 when we came in,
to keep from getting cold.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:15 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

There are a couple of things that help.

Shade is life. A tarp over the boom can reduce cabin temps 20 degrees
or more.

A wash down pump can be used to spray water on the hull and decks to cool them.
That's necessary even when the AC is being used or the boat will never shake off
the noon day sun.

Thanks. Hadn't seen that trick before. Or forgot.


I live in California, no need for air conditioning, so I wasn't thinking
that way in the discussion on running a generator.

Since I don't have (and rarely need) an air conditioner at the house, I
occasionally hose down the plants in the side yard on the few hot nights
we have. It really cools the place down.


But the real way is you simply acclimate to the heat.

That's what I've found. And it happens pretty quick for me.
Found out for sure when my car A/C broke down there once.
A new schedule avoiding the high sun got us right in 2 days.
Found we cranked the A/C in our suite up to 85 when we came in,
to keep from getting cold.

--Vic

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Capt. JG wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.
What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and
have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the
hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I
use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of
hot water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.
What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?


Sweat.


Or mount the AC and run the generator - like everybody else would do - if
they were out here...



My second answer was, "Don't be there."

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:06:29 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.

You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.

I took that to heart the first time you told me.
And I intend to have it, if only on a limited scale for sleeping.
But despite that being a general rule, some acclimate better than
others.
After all, there were people living there before A/C.
My dad's family lived there for 4 years in the '20's.
Mostly Daytona and the Keys. Of course Daytona is on the Atlantic.
But my uncle and his wife lived for many years in a duplex on a canal
in Cape Coral. No A/C, just fans.
Not my cuppa, but some do it just fine.

--Vic



I was in Yuma Arizona in the middle of the summer way back when for a week.
It topped out at 123 and was well over 110 the rest of the days. One day, we
decided to walk into town. My tennis shoes blistered. We were on the
Colorado most of the time, so we could always get out of the water if we ran
out of beer, worst case of course. :-)


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:06:29 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when
they cruise if they don't have A/C.
You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.

I took that to heart the first time you told me.
And I intend to have it, if only on a limited scale for sleeping.
But despite that being a general rule, some acclimate better than
others.
After all, there were people living there before A/C.
My dad's family lived there for 4 years in the '20's.
Mostly Daytona and the Keys. Of course Daytona is on the Atlantic.
But my uncle and his wife lived for many years in a duplex on a canal
in Cape Coral. No A/C, just fans.
Not my cuppa, but some do it just fine.

--Vic


The rest just died !

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:42 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.



Whata wus.

Perhaps. We find that the biggest issue this time of year is the
mosquitos. The area where we live sprays and that keeps them under
control. Elsewhere however when you try to open things up at night
to ventilate, the critters just about carry you away. A/C solves all
that.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:45:02 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:42 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time
without A/C.



Whata wus.

Perhaps. We find that the biggest issue this time of year is the
mosquitos. The area where we live sprays and that keeps them under
control. Elsewhere however when you try to open things up at night
to ventilate, the critters just about carry you away. A/C solves all
that.

In Maine last week the mosquitos were atrocious. Lots of rain hasn't
helped the problem. When we opened the outer door, there'd be a thick
swarm around the screen door. Opening that, very quickly, would always
let about a dozen into the trailer.

Pain in the butt. I probably went through a pint of Deet.
--

John H

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:01:27 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

That Grady is more boat than I'll have, and I"ll have to tackle A/C
differently.

Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only
got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate
the cold and I hate the heat.

I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees
which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :)

That's how my wife is, and she bitches when it gets out of that range.
Funny thing is she's slim, and when I slim up heat hardly bothers me
at all.
I think a lot of it is psychological, maybe based on experience.
Not to say your thermostat can't get messed up.
I know I can control a lot of the "discomfort" by setting my state of
mind, and using a few tricks.
Maybe because I spent years in a 120 degree boiler room and then spent
some years almost as hot as a heat treater, then some years working
outside in record cold winters.
Gives your mind something to work with when the temps are a bit hot or
cold. Then your body catches up.
A cool drink or hot toddy does help. Those are tricks.
Still haven't found a good trick to stop her bitching though.

--Vic

Humidity will make that heat worse. Coming back from June Lake today, and
as we come down on 120 from Yosemite the temp is reading 102. Got dinner
and fuel in Oakdale. 106 at 5pm. Was hot, but not as bad as when I lived
in Dayton, OH or Biloxi, MS. June lake was about 70, but windy until
yesterday. We canoed June Lake yesterday. One trout caught and released.
Stopped at Saddlebag Lake and fished this morning. Is just outside the
Eastern entrance to Yosemite. Caught and released one trout and had a drive
by. Hit the bait and snagged the line in the rocks. Got snag loose, but no
fish. Is at tree line, and still snow at lake level. a month ago when we
came through Yosemite there was 3' of snow at Tuolumne Meadows.

Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
 

"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:57:27 -0700, Jim wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

Well I don't drink coffee so there wouldn't be a coffee maker.

But dude - gotta have air conditioning. :)

Don't leave home without it.

Wear shorts and scandals. :}