I was teaching a BC-1 class this weekend at a local school.

One of the items we teach is the back and fill... turning a monohull on it's
axis with the use of propwalk. The basics - bow near dead up wind, neutral
engine with rudder steerage speed, hard to starboard (assuming typical
propwalk to port in reverse), at about 1/2 way through the turn reverse
engine in pulse (ensuring propwalk but no sternway), then neutral engine,
then engine forward, then helm as needed to complete and gain steerage.
Pretty standard stuff, and very low drama, even in tight spots.

Typically, we have the students practice this outside the fairway, where
errors can be corrected and they can get a feel for the boat. Then,
depending on their level of comfort or how much we want to push them, we do
the turn inside the fairway, which is fairly narrow. The general philosophy
is to impress upon students the abilities (and limitations) of the boat. (As
an aside, this school keeps many boats on the "wrong" side of the fairway,
which means that backing out of the slip and turning to leave needs to be
done without the help of propwalk. We use the three-point turn or spring
lines as necessary, depending on wind and current considerations.)

So, as typical, we do the turns outside then inside the fairway, and then go
off to do other motoring skills practice, such as side-tie, backing down,
etc. This weekend I was teaching aboard a newish (2003) Hunter 31.
Absolutely sucked eggs, when the wind was up in the afternoon on Sunday
(another story which includes why I hate in-mast furlers), but it does fine
under engine.

Nice day actually, very, very warm, tee-shirt weather, but not much wind,
which is a good way to start with people who've never been on a boat this
size.

Day is over, we're back at the dock, the students leave for
dinner/home/whatever. The office manager gets a call from someone
complaining about us doing the back and fills in the fairway, so then he
tells me, btw, we have a new policy about not doing this sort of practice in
the fairway. Thanks for telling me after the fact, not to mention I
completely disagree with the policy. Seems to me that's the whole point of
the maneauver... that's when you're going to need it, not out in the middle
of nowhere. I tried to be diplomatic and said, well, we should probably
discuss this at the next instructor meeting. Apparently, the complaint was
generated because some newbie charterer who ran into a docked boat a couple
of weeks ago when he tried it. I've never heard of an instructor doing this
or allowing it to happen with students aboard.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...

Day is over, we're back at the dock, the students leave for
dinner/home/whatever. The office manager gets a call from someone
complaining about us doing the back and fills in the fairway, so then he
tells me, btw, we have a new policy about not doing this sort of practice
in the fairway. Thanks for telling me after the fact, not to mention I
completely disagree with the policy. Seems to me that's the whole point of
the maneauver... that's when you're going to need it, not out in the
middle of nowhere. I tried to be diplomatic and said, well, we should
probably discuss this at the next instructor meeting. Apparently, the
complaint was generated because some newbie charterer who ran into a
docked boat a couple of weeks ago when he tried it. I've never heard of an
instructor doing this or allowing it to happen with students aboard.


You trying to be diplomatic? www.sailsea.net Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

I can see your days at this outfit are numbered. Let us know when you get a
web page up about it.

"Mac Donald" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...

Day is over, we're back at the dock, the students leave for
dinner/home/whatever. The office manager gets a call from someone
complaining about us doing the back and fills in the fairway, so then he
tells me, btw, we have a new policy about not doing this sort of practice
in the fairway. Thanks for telling me after the fact, not to mention I
completely disagree with the policy. Seems to me that's the whole point
of the maneauver... that's when you're going to need it, not out in the
middle of nowhere. I tried to be diplomatic and said, well, we should
probably discuss this at the next instructor meeting. Apparently, the
complaint was generated because some newbie charterer who ran into a
docked boat a couple of weeks ago when he tried it. I've never heard of
an instructor doing this or allowing it to happen with students aboard.


You trying to be diplomatic? www.sailsea.net Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

I can see your days at this outfit are numbered. Let us know when you get
a web page up about it.



Poor clueless Jon-Boi. He's an example of somebody incapable of learning
from his mistakes. And we all know he makes tons of them. How can somebody
so stupid be so arrogant? Must have the thickest skull in the known
universe.

But, the morons who continue to hire him make the bigger mistake. Don't
these people even do a simple Google search on people they hire?

Shad O'Shay

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
I was teaching a BC-1 class this weekend at a local school.

One of the items we teach is the back and fill... turning a monohull on
it's axis with the use of propwalk. The basics - bow near dead up wind,
neutral engine with rudder steerage speed, hard to starboard (assuming
typical propwalk to port in reverse), at about 1/2 way through the turn
reverse engine in pulse (ensuring propwalk but no sternway), then neutral
engine, then engine forward, then helm as needed to complete and gain
steerage. Pretty standard stuff, and very low drama, even in tight spots.

Typically, we have the students practice this outside the fairway, where
errors can be corrected and they can get a feel for the boat. Then,
depending on their level of comfort or how much we want to push them, we
do the turn inside the fairway, which is fairly narrow. The general
philosophy is to impress upon students the abilities (and limitations) of
the boat. (As an aside, this school keeps many boats on the "wrong" side
of the fairway, which means that backing out of the slip and turning to
leave needs to be done without the help of propwalk. We use the
three-point turn or spring lines as necessary, depending on wind and
current considerations.)

So, as typical, we do the turns outside then inside the fairway, and then
go off to do other motoring skills practice, such as side-tie, backing
down, etc. This weekend I was teaching aboard a newish (2003) Hunter 31.
Absolutely sucked eggs, when the wind was up in the afternoon on Sunday
(another story which includes why I hate in-mast furlers), but it does
fine under engine.

Nice day actually, very, very warm, tee-shirt weather, but not much wind,
which is a good way to start with people who've never been on a boat this
size.

Day is over, we're back at the dock, the students leave for
dinner/home/whatever. The office manager gets a call from someone
complaining about us doing the back and fills in the fairway, so then he
tells me, btw, we have a new policy about not doing this sort of practice
in the fairway. Thanks for telling me after the fact, not to mention I
completely disagree with the policy. Seems to me that's the whole point of
the maneauver... that's when you're going to need it, not out in the
middle of nowhere. I tried to be diplomatic and said, well, we should
probably discuss this at the next instructor meeting. Apparently, the
complaint was generated because some newbie charterer who ran into a
docked boat a couple of weeks ago when he tried it. I've never heard of an
instructor doing this or allowing it to happen with students aboard.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


What a big dope you are, Gaynz! Try to get a clue.

Clue: When you work for someone, listen to what they tell you to do and then
do it. You are just a flunky instructor and these days instructors are a
dime a dozen. You have no real marketable skills so get used to the fact
that you don't set the agenda.

Clue: Trying to make your employer out to be inept or incompetent in public
will probably result in short-term employment. I wonder what they'd do if
they just happened to read your post. Bwaahhahahahahahahahha.

Wilbur Hubbard

Capt. JG wrote:
I was teaching a BC-1 class this weekend at a local school.

One of the items we teach is the back and fill... turning a monohull on it's
axis with the use of propwalk. The basics - bow near dead up wind, neutral
engine with rudder steerage speed, hard to starboard (assuming typical
propwalk to port in reverse), at about 1/2 way through the turn reverse
engine in pulse (ensuring propwalk but no sternway), then neutral engine,
then engine forward, then helm as needed to complete and gain steerage.
Pretty standard stuff, and very low drama, even in tight spots.

Typically, we have the students practice this outside the fairway, where
errors can be corrected and they can get a feel for the boat. Then,
depending on their level of comfort or how much we want to push them, we do
the turn inside the fairway, which is fairly narrow. The general philosophy
is to impress upon students the abilities (and limitations) of the boat. (As
an aside, this school keeps many boats on the "wrong" side of the fairway,
which means that backing out of the slip and turning to leave needs to be
done without the help of propwalk. We use the three-point turn or spring
lines as necessary, depending on wind and current considerations.)

So, as typical, we do the turns outside then inside the fairway, and then go
off to do other motoring skills practice, such as side-tie, backing down,
etc. This weekend I was teaching aboard a newish (2003) Hunter 31.
Absolutely sucked eggs, when the wind was up in the afternoon on Sunday
(another story which includes why I hate in-mast furlers), but it does fine
under engine.

Nice day actually, very, very warm, tee-shirt weather, but not much wind,
which is a good way to start with people who've never been on a boat this
size.

Day is over, we're back at the dock, the students leave for
dinner/home/whatever. The office manager gets a call from someone
complaining about us doing the back and fills in the fairway, so then he
tells me, btw, we have a new policy about not doing this sort of practice in
the fairway. Thanks for telling me after the fact, not to mention I
completely disagree with the policy. Seems to me that's the whole point of
the maneauver... that's when you're going to need it, not out in the middle
of nowhere. I tried to be diplomatic and said, well, we should probably
discuss this at the next instructor meeting. Apparently, the complaint was
generated because some newbie charterer who ran into a docked boat a couple
of weeks ago when he tried it. I've never heard of an instructor doing this
or allowing it to happen with students aboard.

Anywhere you can set up a couple of transits ashore to the same width as
the fairway? Where I am, there is a long shed end on to the basin and
if you can see it's sides, you've strayed out of the best practise
'lane'. The sea school *should* have the agreement of the marina
management as to which areas to practice in and I am surprised at the
new policy you describe. However if the marina is being difficult they
may well be pressuring the school to practice elsewhere. I think the
potential risk due to graduating students attempting this manoeuvre on
their own and probably short handed, never having practised in a
realistic environment is far higher than the risk with an instructor
present and a full crew available to fend off if safe to do so.

You need to ask your principal, off the record, is the new policy 'dont
practice in any fairway' or just 'not round here'? If the former, the
next instructor meeting needs to be brought forward . . .

Presumably there is some method in place for updating you on changes in
school policy and procedures. Why didn't it work this time?


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

"IanM" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
I was teaching a BC-1 class this weekend at a local school.

One of the items we teach is the back and fill... turning a monohull on
it's axis with the use of propwalk. The basics - bow near dead up wind,
neutral engine with rudder steerage speed, hard to starboard (assuming
typical propwalk to port in reverse), at about 1/2 way through the turn
reverse engine in pulse (ensuring propwalk but no sternway), then neutral
engine, then engine forward, then helm as needed to complete and gain
steerage. Pretty standard stuff, and very low drama, even in tight spots.

Typically, we have the students practice this outside the fairway, where
errors can be corrected and they can get a feel for the boat. Then,
depending on their level of comfort or how much we want to push them, we
do the turn inside the fairway, which is fairly narrow. The general
philosophy is to impress upon students the abilities (and limitations) of
the boat. (As an aside, this school keeps many boats on the "wrong" side
of the fairway, which means that backing out of the slip and turning to
leave needs to be done without the help of propwalk. We use the
three-point turn or spring lines as necessary, depending on wind and
current considerations.)

So, as typical, we do the turns outside then inside the fairway, and then
go off to do other motoring skills practice, such as side-tie, backing
down, etc. This weekend I was teaching aboard a newish (2003) Hunter 31.
Absolutely sucked eggs, when the wind was up in the afternoon on Sunday
(another story which includes why I hate in-mast furlers), but it does
fine under engine.

Nice day actually, very, very warm, tee-shirt weather, but not much wind,
which is a good way to start with people who've never been on a boat this
size.

Day is over, we're back at the dock, the students leave for
dinner/home/whatever. The office manager gets a call from someone
complaining about us doing the back and fills in the fairway, so then he
tells me, btw, we have a new policy about not doing this sort of practice
in the fairway. Thanks for telling me after the fact, not to mention I
completely disagree with the policy. Seems to me that's the whole point
of the maneauver... that's when you're going to need it, not out in the
middle of nowhere. I tried to be diplomatic and said, well, we should
probably discuss this at the next instructor meeting. Apparently, the
complaint was generated because some newbie charterer who ran into a
docked boat a couple of weeks ago when he tried it. I've never heard of
an instructor doing this or allowing it to happen with students aboard.

Anywhere you can set up a couple of transits ashore to the same width as
the fairway? Where I am, there is a long shed end on to the basin and if
you can see it's sides, you've strayed out of the best practise 'lane'.
The sea school *should* have the agreement of the marina management as to
which areas to practice in and I am surprised at the new policy you
describe. However if the marina is being difficult they may well be
pressuring the school to practice elsewhere. I think the potential risk
due to graduating students attempting this manoeuvre on their own and
probably short handed, never having practised in a realistic environment
is far higher than the risk with an instructor present and a full crew
available to fend off if safe to do so.

You need to ask your principal, off the record, is the new policy 'dont
practice in any fairway' or just 'not round here'? If the former, the
next instructor meeting needs to be brought forward . . .

Presumably there is some method in place for updating you on changes in
school policy and procedures. Why didn't it work this time?



Hey Ian... I was wondering if anyone even saw the thread! :-)

I was thinking about trying to find another spot to practice this sort of
thing. Unfortunately, the only place I can think of right off is at a
competing school's fairway. I work for both places, but I have a feeling
they wouldn't appreciate the thought. Obviously, it's got to be a place with
favorable wind as well. And, it's got to be fairly close. There might be a
spot near downtown Sausalito. I'll have to check it out next time I get over
that way. We regularly take students into "unfamiliar" marinas, so they can
plan their attack, retreat, and implement a pre-arranged in my mind backup
plan. I'll say something like, oh my there's a trawler coming out, we need
to turn around.

I completely agree that the potential risk is higher for those who don't get
a chance. In fact, I'm fairly certain it was a charterer who bumped another
boat. If it had been an instructor, we would have heard for sure.

I'm going to give the main coordinator a call later today after I unbury
myself from work. He's a pretty solid guy, 200GT, 30 years of instruction,
etc. Normally, a policy change like this would have been communicated via
regular email distribution, even if it was discussed in an instructor
meeting, since only about 1/2 the instructors actually attend (we've got a
pool of near 50 in a couple of locations).

I was sort of amazed by the complaint from the marina... seems like they
would prefer instructors aboard vs. what likely happened to cause the
problem.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com