I'm looking for a source of fiberglass exhaust pipe. I only need a few
inches of 1.5" pipe, and am in Saint Simons Island, GA for a few weeks.

Any sources to recommend?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
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"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a source of fiberglass exhaust pipe. I only need a few
inches of 1.5" pipe, and am in Saint Simons Island, GA for a few weeks.

Any sources to recommend?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog


Don't know why you're set on fiberglass, but here is a possible source:
http://www.mmxhaust.com/FRP_products.html

Although for a short length it would almost seem easier to lay it up on your
own, or go to a different material, such as stainless. Fiberglass means wet
exhaust only, relatively low temperatures, but stainless would be stronger
than necessary, which is a good thing, and probably much easier to find.

--
KLC Lewis
www.KLCLewisStudios.com
www.cafepress.com/tmen
www.zazzle.com/klclewis
www.skreened.com/tmen

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...


Don't know why you're set on fiberglass, but here is a possible source:
http://www.mmxhaust.com/FRP_products.html

Although for a short length it would almost seem easier to lay it up on
your own, or go to a different material, such as stainless. Fiberglass
means wet exhaust only, relatively low temperatures, but stainless would
be stronger than necessary, which is a good thing, and probably much
easier to find.

--
KLC Lewis
www.KLCLewisStudios.com
www.cafepress.com/tmen
www.zazzle.com/klclewis
www.skreened.com/tmen



Hi, Karen,

I have a couple of possibilites for FRP pipe; the reason for using
fiberglass is that the muffler is made of that, and I presume it would be
happier with FRP instead of any other pipe. OTOH, if finding FRP is a real
pain, I guess I'd consider SS - but have no experience in epoxy/glassing to
it, so I'm a bit nervous about it.

It's to repair a muffler which intake inexplicably has virtually
disappeared; I'd abrade and clean the muffler, and the pipe, and lay it up
with light cloth and epoxy after making the right sized hole cleanup in the
muffler can. I think it's a Vetus, but it's round, about a foot high and
wide, with the intake out the side and the exhaust out the top, black
fiberglass...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...

Hi, Karen,

I have a couple of possibilites for FRP pipe; the reason for using
fiberglass is that the muffler is made of that, and I presume it would be
happier with FRP instead of any other pipe. OTOH, if finding FRP is a
real pain, I guess I'd consider SS - but have no experience in
epoxy/glassing to it, so I'm a bit nervous about it.

It's to repair a muffler which intake inexplicably has virtually
disappeared; I'd abrade and clean the muffler, and the pipe, and lay it up
with light cloth and epoxy after making the right sized hole cleanup in
the muffler can. I think it's a Vetus, but it's round, about a foot high
and wide, with the intake out the side and the exhaust out the top, black
fiberglass...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

Ah, okay, I have a better picture of what you're doing now. Stainless
wouldn't work well for that, IMO. But since you're prepared to do layup work
anyway, it would be easy to create the tube section yourself. A mandrel of
the proper diameter for the ID of your tube, wrapped with a layer of thin
polyethylene sheet, then lay up the tube with fiberglass tape until you're
happy with the thickness. You could even do this as an integral part of the
repair, skipping the "make it first, then attach it" stage.

--
KLC Lewis
www.KLCLewisStudios.com
www.cafepress.com/tmen
www.zazzle.com/klclewis
www.skreened.com/tmen

KLC Lewis wrote:
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Hi, Karen,

I have a couple of possibilites for FRP pipe; the reason for using
fiberglass is that the muffler is made of that, and I presume it would be
happier with FRP instead of any other pipe. OTOH, if finding FRP is a
real pain, I guess I'd consider SS - but have no experience in
epoxy/glassing to it, so I'm a bit nervous about it.

It's to repair a muffler which intake inexplicably has virtually
disappeared; I'd abrade and clean the muffler, and the pipe, and lay it up
with light cloth and epoxy after making the right sized hole cleanup in
the muffler can. I think it's a Vetus, but it's round, about a foot high
and wide, with the intake out the side and the exhaust out the top, black
fiberglass...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

Ah, okay, I have a better picture of what you're doing now. Stainless
wouldn't work well for that, IMO. But since you're prepared to do layup work
anyway, it would be easy to create the tube section yourself. A mandrel of
the proper diameter for the ID of your tube, wrapped with a layer of thin
polyethylene sheet, then lay up the tube with fiberglass tape until you're
happy with the thickness. You could even do this as an integral part of the
repair, skipping the "make it first, then attach it" stage.

Been there. done that. (2" fiberglass pipe to form the core of a depth
sounder fairing block.) It will take an afternoon with plenty of time
to do other things while you are waiting for the most recent couple of
layers to reach a 'green' cure so you can carry on. If you have any PVA
mould release, USE IT! If you either use a slightly tapered mandrel or
build it up with several layers of glossy newsprint with each layer
taped to itself but *NOT* the underlying layer, you'll find it a lot
easier to get the mandrel out. Make sure the taper is in your favour
though!

However, I'm not convinced that this is a valid repair method. Epoxy is
NOT strong at elevated temperatures and I would be inclined to do the
repair in polyester resin *IF* I could get the muffler clean enough.
I'd lay up the first few layers resin rich with as much glass
microbubble additive as I could use to attempt to provide thermal
insulation for the outer layers then switch to normal laminating,
keeping the resin ratio as low as possible without compromising the
layup. It wants to be about 50% thicker than 'factory' if the
restriction is managable as the original was made under ideal conditions
and was probably significantly stronger.

I would *expect* bonding problems at the joint so it may be better to
make a flange and bed the replacement spigot on sealent with a ring of
self tappers retaining it. If one is going down that road, and you can
get it made up easily you might as well go stainless.

I presume that you are cruising somewhere undeveloped and can't wait for
a replacement muffler as fixing it anywhere you can get one within 3
days is a waste of time and money. You'll probably want to change it
next winter anyway. *FIX* the cooling water supply problem that let the
exhaust eat the spigot! (If it hasn't got a water supply problem now, it
had one in the past)

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...

I have a couple of possibilites for FRP pipe; the reason for using
fiberglass is that the muffler is made of that, and I presume it would be
happier with FRP instead of any other pipe. OTOH, if finding FRP is a
real pain, I guess I'd consider SS - but have no experience in
epoxy/glassing to it, so I'm a bit nervous about it.

It's to repair a muffler which intake inexplicably has virtually
disappeared; I'd abrade and clean the muffler, and the pipe, and lay it up
with light cloth and epoxy after making the right sized hole cleanup in
the muffler can. I think it's a Vetus, but it's round, about a foot high
and wide, with the intake out the side and the exhaust out the top, black
fiberglass...

Vetus make one like that. It has a clamp in the middle, allowing you to
rotate the intake and exit by 360 degrees to suit the installation.
There are two sizes:-
4 litre capacity. height of body 254 cm. part no. NLP 40-45-50
10 litre capacity. height of body 362 cm. part no.NLP 50S-60-75-90

Hi, Ian, and list,

Thanks for the erudition! There's a couple of questions you raise, however,
inline:


"IanM" wrote in message
...

(clip self-layup section; see future post)

However, I'm not convinced that this is a valid repair method. Epoxy is
NOT strong at elevated temperatures and I would be inclined to do the
repair in polyester resin *IF* I could get the muffler clean enough.
I'd lay up the first few layers resin rich with as much glass microbubble
additive as I could use to attempt to provide thermal insulation for the
outer layers then switch to normal laminating, keeping the resin ratio as
low as possible without compromising the layup. It wants to be about 50%
thicker than 'factory' if the restriction is managable as the original was
made under ideal conditions and was probably significantly stronger.

In this, I presume you're speaking of self-layup, not the insertion of the
replacement tube to the muffler? There's not enough left to tell what the
orginal factory thickness was, but the part right next to the "can" feels
like it can't be more than 1/16" thick. What I'm finding is all 1/8" wall,
but if I were concerned, I could spring for the bigger bux, much too long a
piece, in 1/4" wall. So, I'm presuming I'll have a much stronger pipe in
the repair than the original.


I would *expect* bonding problems at the joint so it may be better to make
a flange and bed the replacement spigot on sealent with a ring of self
tappers retaining it. If one is going down that road, and you can get it
made up easily you might as well go stainless.

By "made up" - to what are you referring? Getting a flange with a radius to
match the muffler body? I'm reluctant to be making additional compromises
to the body (4-6 holes in a fiberglass shell prolly wouldn't enhance its
strength, and there's vibration transmitted from the very short hose to the
engine to think about) that attaching a flange would involve, though the SS
pipe certainly would remove dissolution issues, I'd think...


I presume that you are cruising somewhere undeveloped and can't wait for

Heh. Wilbur can tell you from looking at my SPOT track that I cruised the
interstate highway system for a bit but am back in Saint Simons Island, GA
while I wait for Lydia to tire of the television and other stuff after she
plays Gramma with her (thanks for the thoughts, he's doing fabulously)
grandson who's just had open heart surgery. So, I'm back in friendly
territory for parts, of which I'll need others than just this.

a replacement muffler as fixing it anywhere you can get one within 3 days
is a waste of time and money. You'll probably want to change it next
winter anyway.

Winter is subjective to us, as we have no interest in being somewhere the
daytime temps are under 70 for more than a few days at a time. As,
presuming I find a source (I have a couple; see coming post) for FG pipe, my
repair will involve less than an hour, likely, and a replacement muffler is
some number larger than 1 boatbuck, why would I do that, other things being
equal? (asking, not confronting - the amount isn't backbreaking, so if
there's good enough reason, I would)

*FIX* the cooling water supply problem that let the exhaust eat the
spigot! (If it hasn't got a water supply problem now, it had one in the
past)

This one is curious to me; in another forum, someone said something about
theirs having gone "porous," or something to that effect, also, making me
wonder if it was a polyester resin issue (like blisters). The cooling water
is, of course, whatever we're in at the time, and the engine runs at
180*-200* all the time once it's warmed up.

So, to your comment, what might make that happen; that is, what sort of
cooling water supply problem might there be?


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)

Thanks again for your info.

L8R

Skip, sans crew

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

Vetus make one like that. It has a clamp in the middle, allowing you to
rotate the intake and exit by 360 degrees to suit the installation.
There are two sizes:-
4 litre capacity. height of body 254 cm. part no. NLP 40-45-50
10 litre capacity. height of body 362 cm. part no.NLP 50S-60-75-90



Thanks for the recommendation. I can't find any US supplier of the part,
and it's a bit pricey for me, too, but if I have to replace mine, it's
certainly a good choice.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Flying Pig wrote:
Hi, Ian, and list,

Thanks for the erudition! There's a couple of questions you raise, however,
inline:


"IanM" wrote:

(clip self-layup section; see future post)
However, I'm not convinced that this is a valid repair method. Epoxy is
NOT strong at elevated temperatures and I would be inclined to do the
repair in polyester resin *IF* I could get the muffler clean enough.
I'd lay up the first few layers resin rich with as much glass microbubble
additive as I could use to attempt to provide thermal insulation for the
outer layers then switch to normal laminating, keeping the resin ratio as
low as possible without compromising the layup. It wants to be about 50%
thicker than 'factory' if the restriction is managable as the original was
made under ideal conditions and was probably significantly stronger.

In this, I presume you're speaking of self-layup, not the insertion of the
replacement tube to the muffler? There's not enough left to tell what the
orginal factory thickness was, but the part right next to the "can" feels
like it can't be more than 1/16" thick. What I'm finding is all 1/8" wall,
but if I were concerned, I could spring for the bigger bux, much too long a
piece, in 1/4" wall. So, I'm presuming I'll have a much stronger pipe in
the repair than the original.

You are going to have this job on the bench so measure the wall
thickness at the *other* spigot! If you are buying in the tube, as long
as the wall thickness is similar, and you over-build the fillet
attaching it you should be OK. The body thickness may well be thinner.

I would *expect* bonding problems at the joint so it may be better to make
a flange and bed the replacement spigot on sealant with a ring of self
tappers retaining it. If one is going down that road, and you can get it
made up easily you might as well go stainless.

By "made up" - to what are you referring? Getting a flange with a radius to
match the muffler body? I'm reluctant to be making additional compromises
to the body (4-6 holes in a fibreglass shell prolly wouldn't enhance its
strength, and there's vibration transmitted from the very short hose to the
engine to think about) that attaching a flange would involve, though the SS
pipe certainly would remove dissolution issues, I'd think...
If you have a local stainless worker that's good . . . (quality
stainless work can sometimes be got done in really out of the way
places) OR wrap the muffler in polythene and laminate up a flange.

Don't worry about the strength reduction due to *small* holes drilled in
the GRP, They will be overlapped by the flange that's bedded on an
adhesive sealent.


I presume that you are cruising somewhere undeveloped and can't wait for

Heh. Wilbur can tell you from looking at my SPOT track that I cruised the
interstate highway system for a bit but am back in Saint Simons Island, GA
while I wait for Lydia to tire of the television and other stuff after she
plays Gramma with her (thanks for the thoughts, he's doing fabulously)
grandson who's just had open heart surgery. So, I'm back in friendly
territory for parts, of which I'll need others than just this.

a replacement muffler as fixing it anywhere you can get one within 3 days
is a waste of time and money. You'll probably want to change it next
winter anyway.

Winter is subjective to us, as we have no interest in being somewhere the
daytime temps are under 70 for more than a few days at a time. As,
presuming I find a source (I have a couple; see coming post) for FG pipe, my
repair will involve less than an hour, likely, and a replacement muffler is
some number larger than 1 boatbuck, why would I do that, other things being
equal? (asking, not confronting - the amount isn't backbreaking, so if
there's good enough reason, I would)
Reliability. A faulty exhaust system is potentially lethal if CO fumes
reach the accommodation. It doesn't need to kill you, just impair your
judgement. The clean-up after an exhaust failure is also not fun and you
can take on surprising amount of water via a failed exhause.
How confident are you of the long term durability of your repair? You
can be pretty sure it's good for six months or so then you really should
inspect it thoroughly. What about the rest of the muffler? Is what ate
the spigot eating through it somewhere else?

A few hundred dollars for a replacement *with* a warranty would be a
reasonable investment. If its over $500 that must be a mighty special
muffler! Deduct cost of GRP materials etc. and allow something for your
extra time (when has a one hour boat job *ever* taken only one hour?)
and unless you are paying boutique prices or it will leave your repair
kitty dangerously low, new starts looking quite attractive.

*FIX* the cooling water supply problem that let the exhaust eat the
spigot! (If it hasn't got a water supply problem now, it had one in the
past)

This one is curious to me; in another forum, someone said something about
theirs having gone "porous," or something to that effect, also, making me
wonder if it was a polyester resin issue (like blisters). The cooling water
is, of course, whatever we're in at the time, and the engine runs at
180*-200* all the time once it's warmed up.

So, to your comment, what might make that happen; that is, what sort of
cooling water supply problem might there be?

Often, on temporary or partial loss of cooling water a fibreglass
muffler will 'cook' before the reinforced rubber hose does. Once the
resin has been degraded, you are betting that it still remains resistant
to steam + partially burnt diesel. Sooner or later you loose the bet .
.. . (plastic mufflers are even more vulnerable)
A short hose between it an the engine makes damage more likely and more
severe.

Causes could be weed, plastic debris etc. and the intake cleared itself
before the fresh water side of the cooling system got hot enough to
cause an alarm OR a long term problem with airlocking, fouling of the
intake or a failing raw water pump. You could have reduced raw water
flow and localised exhaust overheating without the engine fresh water
coolant getting much above it's normal maximum.




--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

Hi, Merlin, and list(s), the morganowners reply shown for context, and some
of what I've found non-specific to my task shown for others who may have a
use for it,

----- Original Message -----
From: Merlin Clark
To:

Found this: http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-tube-rod.htm 1 1/2 tube is only
1/8 thick, but I'd think you're going to glass it in anyway and would
increase the thickness by doing so? Or go with a 1 1/4 and build it up to 1
1/2?
$12 for 4 feet.
Merlin



Cool site. 1/8" wall is ample for the application...

I'm actually needing a 2" OD but the PVC I used for a kludge to bypass the
muffler is 1.5"ID/~2"OD - and their 6" sample pack (leaving me with lots of
smaller samples) is only 9.50 (vs a 4' section, which leaves me with lots I
doubt I'll use in my lifetime, at $26). If I needed *really* stout pipe,
they also make a 1/4" wall pipe (standard being 1/8") in longer lengths.
However, feeling around in the remainder of the spigot on the muffler
suggests that the original wasn't 1/16" thick, even, so I expect that will
be ample.

They're apparently a comms/electronics/HAM site, as there's lots of
electronics/HAM-sounding stuff there - and a ham friend of mine tells me
that it's not heat-rated stuff, so I'll have to keep looking...

Another source I uncovered is
http://www.mesamarine.com/TridentPricing.html#Conn , where a 4" section is
$8. That will accomplish what I need, but shipping (haven't explored policy
on either yet) might make the sample pack above cheaper, and have just that
much more (don't know the merits/problems of using slightly longer and
having it stick further into the muffler) length. Given that it's Trident,
there's an outside possibility that I could get it through Port Supply when
I order the other stuff I need. Update from when I started, they do have
it, and offer a whopping 0.50 discount from Mesa's price...

Then, there's http://www.mcmaster.com/#fiberglass-tubing/=1qpbe8 - having
ordered odd stuff from there before, I'm surprised I didn't think of them -
but they only sell 5' lengths, and it's food-grade stuff, not exhaust hose,
so, with an operating range of -50/+140F and a max temp of only 200F, that
might not be a good place for it. OT, they sell telflon strip which is
great for sliders, which is one of the apps I used them for, and it's also
where I got the parts for my fuel polishing system.

Yet another correspondent turned me on to vernatube 1100 series pipe.
Here's one source:
http://www.yachtsupplydepot.com/engi...rod_16481.html
which has a large selection of diameters, not just the 2" shown in the URL.

I've also done a bunch of searching, and have reasonably conclusively
determined that what we have currently is a Vernalift muffler, PN 1500027,
based on the specs and pix seen he
http://www.boatfix.com/catalog09/614.pdf . It's available in various places
from 121 (Port Supply, cheapest I've found so far) to close to 200 at
various other vendors. Currently debating whether to replace it, or
fabricate the new intake. I'll make that decision when I pull it out (which
I'd want to do anyway, to do the work more conveniently).

Thanks to all who suggested sources...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."