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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:16:33 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote: Jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: - cruising equipment - cruising reports - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues - discussion on navigation - requests for crews and for boats to crew on - upcoming events, cruises, etc - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? And when was this posted and to where? It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org We need some moderators. I nominate Roger Long, Wlibur Hubbard, and Larry. And Bruce and Jon. Maybe Peter when he returns. That's a start. No offense to those I omitted. A blessing, really. --Vic I'm not a very moderate person, so I'll decline. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:16:33 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote: Jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: - cruising equipment - cruising reports - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues - discussion on navigation - requests for crews and for boats to crew on - upcoming events, cruises, etc - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? And when was this posted and to where? It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org We need some moderators. I nominate Roger Long, Wlibur Hubbard, and Larry. And Bruce and Jon. Maybe Peter when he returns. That's a start. No offense to those I omitted. A blessing, really. --Vic |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:16:33 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote: Jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: - cruising equipment - cruising reports - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues - discussion on navigation - requests for crews and for boats to crew on - upcoming events, cruises, etc - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? The DEFAULT rules that cover ALL groups in the Alt groups hierarchy says no advertising allowed in any of them unless a particular group allows it specifically in the charter for that group. |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
jeff wrote in :
Geoff Schultz wrote: Jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: - cruising equipment - cruising reports - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues - discussion on navigation - requests for crews and for boats to crew on - upcoming events, cruises, etc - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? And when was this posted and to where? Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted here. It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules. No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are unenforcible. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only one handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of civilized behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago Neil did not engage much in sock puppets. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should simply pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that we make a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that path. Guess what, this is the Internet! RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. There are no hard and fast rules. There are only suggestions. Tell me how you, or anyone will keep commercial postings away. If you look at the count of posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. News groups are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. Within a few years it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards. Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock puppets than the occasional commercial posting. Wilbur and his sock- puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any commercial posting. There's reasons why they don't post to forums. They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. These unmoderated, subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that they have. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
Geoff Schultz wrote:
jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: Jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: - cruising equipment - cruising reports - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues - discussion on navigation - requests for crews and for boats to crew on - upcoming events, cruises, etc - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? And when was this posted and to where? Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted here. It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules. No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are unenforcible. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only one handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of civilized behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago Neil did not engage much in sock puppets. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should simply pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that we make a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that path. Guess what, this is the Internet! RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. There are no hard and fast rules. There are only suggestions. Tell me how you, or anyone will keep commercial postings away. That's easy; the same way we have in the past. Most commercial vendors like Mr. Atkins have no desire to spam a group that feels it's anti-social. If you look at the count of posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. News groups are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. Within a few years it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards. Well, that's a different problem, not an excuse to trash it right now. Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock puppets than the occasional commercial posting. Wilbur and his sock- puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any commercial posting. Again, a different problem. There's reasons why they don't post to forums. They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. These unmoderated, subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that they have. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:43:09 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote: jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: Jeff wrote in : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: - cruising equipment - cruising reports - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues - discussion on navigation - requests for crews and for boats to crew on - upcoming events, cruises, etc - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? And when was this posted and to where? Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted here. It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules. No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are unenforcible. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only one handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of civilized behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago Neil did not engage much in sock puppets. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should simply pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that we make a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that path. Guess what, this is the Internet! RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. There are no hard and fast rules. There are only suggestions. Tell me how you, or anyone will keep commercial postings away. If you look at the count of posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. News groups are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. Within a few years it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards. Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock puppets than the occasional commercial posting. Wilbur and his sock- puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any commercial posting. There's reasons why they don't post to forums. They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. These unmoderated, subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that they have. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Not many web forums will tolerate commercial postings. As far as enforcement on a usenet group, Ben has been asked to refrain from doing it, and told why. That is usually enough "enforcement" for anyone who is trying to make friends and build a business. If not, there is, in fact, recourse. |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Apr 7, 6:03*am, wrote:
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:43:09 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote: jeff wrote : Geoff Schultz wrote: Jeff wrote : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: *It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. *I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. *They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising * * *Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: * * * * - cruising equipment * * * * - cruising reports * * * * - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants * * * * to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision * * * * - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related * * * * issues - discussion on navigation * * * * - requests for crews and for boats to crew on * * * * - upcoming events, cruises, etc * * * * - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. *Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. *I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. * There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. *I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? *And when was this posted and to where? * Its been a few years. *But the issue of commercial posts is discussed several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted here. It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. *Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. *These are nice suggestions, not rules. No, they are the rules. *Your only point is that they are unenforcible. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. *Clearly no one follows them in here. * Is this a confession? *Actually, most of the posters have used only one handle, and many have identified themselves. *The fact that several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of civilized behavior. *Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago Neil did not engage much in sock puppets. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? *That everyone should simply pick the rules they want to follow? *Or are you suggesting that we make a point of breaking all rules? *ASA is an example of that path. Guess what, this is the Internet! *RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. *There are no hard and fast rules. *There are only suggestions. *Tell me how you, or anyone will keep commercial postings away. *If you look at the count of posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. *News groups are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. *Within a few years it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards. * Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock puppets than the occasional commercial posting. *Wilbur and his sock- puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any commercial posting. *There's reasons why they don't post to forums. * They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. *These unmoderated, subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that they have. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Not many web forums will tolerate commercial postings. As far as enforcement on a usenet group, Ben has been asked to refrain from doing it, and told why. That is usually enough "enforcement" for anyone who is trying to make friends and build a business. If not, there is, in fact, recourse. Well, I did look for the forum rules before posting and did not find them. I understand the rules now and I make it a point not to spam boards with useless sales info. However, I do see a mutually beneficial relationship that has developed on other boards between vendor and casual poster. By drawing the line between useful industry knowledge that all everybody can use and cluttering up the group with relentless spam, I receive exposure and the reinforcement of our abilities and you receive my experiences and said useful knowledge. What do people think about that? |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
"Ben Atkins" wrote in message ... Well, I did look for the forum rules before posting and did not find them. I understand the rules now and I make it a point not to spam boards with useless sales info. However, I do see a mutually beneficial relationship that has developed on other boards between vendor and casual poster. By drawing the line between useful industry knowledge that all everybody can use and cluttering up the group with relentless spam, I receive exposure and the reinforcement of our abilities and you receive my experiences and said useful knowledge. What do people think about that? I see little wrong with it, myself. However, if I might suggest a different tack: Taking part in discussions and adding your URL to your sig is a widely accepted method of promoting yourself without appearing blatantly commercial. KLC Lewis www.cafepress.com/tmen www.KLCLewisStudios.com |
Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
"Ben Atkins" wrote in message
... snip for clarity Well, I did look for the forum rules before posting and did not find them. I understand the rules now and I make it a point not to spam boards with useless sales info. However, I do see a mutually beneficial relationship that has developed on other boards between vendor and casual poster. By drawing the line between useful industry knowledge that all everybody can use and cluttering up the group with relentless spam, I receive exposure and the reinforcement of our abilities and you receive my experiences and said useful knowledge. What do people think about that? I think on some level it's a matter of the style of the posting. In your original post, it seemed to be more of an info-mercial rather than a call for comments. For example, you said you have a great reputation, then the next poster pointed out a problem. Instead, you could have posted something like... we do thus-and-such, has anyone experienced good, bad, or indifferent with our product? Then, assuming Jeff posted the same thing, you could followed up publically about how you have or will remedy the situation. The discussion would then be focused on your products and/or willingness to accept criticism, try to deal with the problem, etc., vs. lack of nettiquette. There's a lot to be said about a vender/potential customer relationship developing on Usenet. I've seen this happen many times on other sailing forums, but you can't just take some marketing language and cut and paste. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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