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New killer of cruising sailors
Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have
been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html |
New killer of cruising sailors
Yup!
For milllions of years humankind would wash all their food and wash their hands before eating. Ever notice how many people wash their hands at a public toilet? .... virtually none. In article , JAXAshby wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html |
New killer of cruising sailors
And people simply didn't eat fresh greens or uncooked veggies in third
world countries. Nothing has changed in that area. Why would people think things have changed? More intelligence on Earth? Rich Hampel wrote: Yup! For milllions of years humankind would wash all their food and wash their hands before eating. Ever notice how many people wash their hands at a public toilet? .... virtually none. In article , JAXAshby wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html -- The SPAM finally got to me. Remove "-sorry-" from my address to reply directly. |
New killer of cruising sailors
E.Coli is part of the natural flora of the human digestive tract. That is
why it is used as an indicator of human polution in water. Vegies that have E. Coli in them is a result of countries that use human waste as fertilizer. It is only when one gets a massive dose that the body can't handle then one gets sick. I suspect that some sub-strains exists as well that are more aggressive. Doug s/v Callista "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html |
New killer of cruising sailors
And people simply didn't eat fresh greens or uncooked veggies in third
world countries. Nothing has changed in that area. Why would people think things have changed? More intelligence on Earth? The last nomads in southern Africa (later 1960's, early 1970's) were known to eat upwards of 300 difference species of plants, and 60 species of animals, without health problems associated with nutrition. By mid 1990's, they were "domesticated" and eating about 7 species of plants and 4 or 5 species of animals, and did indeed have nutritional associated health problems. |
New killer of cruising sailors
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New killer of cruising sailors
That sounds like a loaded observation. Were they (the nomads) suddendly
clustered together. Any refs re your comments? I read an article on the day the psychotic computer HAL was born (January 19, 1996?) in Urbana ILL [grin]. the article was written by a man who did his PhD on those nomads in 1968(?) and who returned to study them again in the mid 1990's. Much had changed, including the food habits, including the effort worked each day for food (from about 3 hours a day as hunter/gatherers to 8 hours a day working in civilization). |
New killer of cruising sailors
Patron: Gimme a sandwich. Waiter: Mad cow beef, mercury fish or salmonella
chicken? Patron: err maybe a salad instead. OK pesticide or hepatitis? Never mind, just water please. Processed sewage or farm runoff? .... |
New killer of cruising sailors
The E.Coli in our digestive tracts is not the
same as the one or more that can make you dreadfully sick. You might say they just share the first name of a long name sequence. It is not easily washed away and food that has it would have to be boiled for a while before the bacteria would be killed. A 'massive dose' in the world of microbiology can be an amount that you could fit on the head of a pin. Luckily, it is not that common. Outbreaks can be controlled if health authorities investigate and act to control the source. In absence of that, use good judgement and eat only food that you know has not made others sick. (cruiser rule # 4329) |
New killer of cruising sailors
E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown
with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is standard practice among many long distance cruisers. JAXAshby wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
New killer of cruising sailors
This has been interesting to follow. Not sure if many picked up the
tad hint of facetiousness of its' origins tho? Or should that be written as fecetiousness? Great thread nonetheless, sort of reminds me abit of the good ole CompuServe sailing forum days of a decade or so ago. Anyway, back to the subject here, I admit, prior to stepping on a boat to go cruising at age 19/20 or so in the late 80's, I for one didn't know more would be required than just rinsing produce in water in some stops made - more like soaking in bleach/water. Admit again, ask me what e-coli was back in those days, I may've guessed a goth band from the UK. Put that down to living in Australian-style sheltered terra-firma mum-did-all-the-cooking and I just wanna attend nightclubs surburbia I suppose. Admit once again, didn't know about cans and the potential of botulism either - again - till cruising - cans were usually consumed within a healthy timeframe in my then brick&mortar surrounds. If any swelled, they usually went the next step and exploded. That was when my dad or brothers would put their beer cans in for a quick chill and forget about them. Not sure what some cruisers can do in some cases about sticking to their diet and/or determining what's healthy to consume or not when in foreign ports tho? My other half during his circumnavigation (done whilst a youngin') was often the guest in many a port & home - ranging from a harbor master somewhere over there in Indonesia to bbq'ing with the Zulus. He may not have felt quite right asking his Zulu hosts if they used a meat thermometer. Thankfully, the young circumnavigator I speak and spoke of at that other thread made it back safe & sound after 7 years and wasn't subject to the killer of cruisers. Even more amazing when you consider he didn't have the internet or Gualiter back then to glean information from either. Cheers for now Karen Hi Rosalie, my other half told me of that story he heard (the cruiser's death) back in 1987. So if true, it would've been prior to that year. Rosalie B. wrote in message . .. (JAXAshby) wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html That article doesn't say that it is fresh vegetables. It says Undercooked or raw hamburger (ground beef) has been implicated in many of the documented outbreaks, however E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks have implicated alfalfa sprouts, unpasteurized fruit juices, dry-cured salami, lettuce, game meat, and cheese curds. Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada. The vegetables mentioned are lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. Most of the other things are meat or dairy. This isn't new BTW - has been known since 1982. As far as the 'very young and elderly', it says All people are believed to be susceptible to hemorrhagic colitis, but young children and the elderly appear to progress to more serious symptoms more frequently. I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been killed. grandma Rosalie |
New killer of cruising sailors
dude, you should take to understand the sources of your information. if you
believe what you wrote below, you believe things no food scientist believes. Did you buy Special Ignitor Stoppers Mineral Tablets from your source? The E.Coli in our digestive tracts is not the same as the one or more that can make you dreadfully sick. You might say they just share the first name of a long name sequence. It is not easily washed away and food that has it would have to be boiled for a while before the bacteria would be killed. A 'massive dose' in the world of microbiology can be an amount that you could fit on the head of a pin. Luckily, it is not that common. Outbreaks can be controlled if health authorities investigate and act to control the source. In absence of that, use good judgement and eat only food that you know has not made others sick. (cruiser rule # 4329) |
New killer of cruising sailors
did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control?
THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce. Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines. E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is standard practice among many long distance cruisers. JAXAshby wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
New killer of cruising sailors
I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been
killed. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 |
New killer of cruising sailors
As far as the 'very
young and elderly', it says the phrase you are looking for, and is used by food scientists, is: "compromised immune system" very young childred don't have much of an immune system and the elderly often have lost much of theirs. the point was that worrying about e. coli attacks from lettuce purchased in foreign countries is worrying about a non-issue. anyone who does should never untie their dock lines. |
New killer of cruising sailors
Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada.
it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century. people terrified by the thoughts of painful illnesses lurking under every lettuce leaf or alfalfa spout they might come across unless they spray household bleach and then household hydrogen peroxide on the food first should never go sailing. cruising sailors die of skin cancer and cigarette smoking and clogged arteries due to high fat foods/too many calories and chronic excess alcohol intake and stepping of sharp rocks and bullet wounds from jealous spouses. "sweating the small stuff" is an absolute indicator one in so far in over one's head that one should seek the council of his/her clergy. |
New killer of cruising sailors
JAXAshby wrote: did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control? THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce. Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines. Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing there are few NDZs in third world countries. :-) -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
New killer of cruising sailors
Unpasteurized milk might be a bad idea, but it isn't strictly illegal. Once
again, Jaxie is just making it up as he goes along: http://www.magma.ca/~ca/rawmilk/survey.htm Maine, along with other states, permits the sale of unpasteurized milk as long as it is handled properly and labeled. Other states allow sale from small farms (a few cows) and some allow joint ownership of producing cows. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada. it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century. people terrified by the thoughts of painful illnesses lurking under every lettuce leaf or alfalfa spout they might come across unless they spray household bleach and then household hydrogen peroxide on the food first should never go sailing. cruising sailors die of skin cancer and cigarette smoking and clogged arteries due to high fat foods/too many calories and chronic excess alcohol intake and stepping of sharp rocks and bullet wounds from jealous spouses. "sweating the small stuff" is an absolute indicator one in so far in over one's head that one should seek the council of his/her clergy. |
New killer of cruising sailors
JAXAshby wrote:
Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada. it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century. Actually it's legal to sell raw milk in both Canada and the U.S. but the dairy and product are subjected to special raw mild standards, which btw, dictates much more cleanliness and expense. See: http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html#can (first Google hit for "raw milk") Stephen |
New killer of cruising sailors
(JAXAshby) wrote:
I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been killed. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...0135#479100135 talks mostly about food safety. And most of the food safety stuff is normal stuff like cans with botulism. The business about washing stuff in bleach that has been fertilized with human waste was something that we did in 1950 when visiting Germany, which isn't usually thought of as a third world country although it was still recovering from WWII of course. Hardly new information even if the E.coli strain that's around now is new. grandma Rosalie |
New killer of cruising sailors
Just to save someone alot of cutting&pasting or Ctrl'ing Cing &
Ctrl'ing Ving, I'll be re-adjusting to reading only and will be sorta busy anyway in the upcoming days with a chilli-cook-off here in sunny SoCa so may not have time for quite awhile actually! Cheers, and a nice day to all, yes, including you too (the nuns taught me to be nice to everyone - god bless their forgiving souls) Karen :) PS you can read more of my dribble at the Lats & Atts board too btw! Stephen Trapani wrote in message ... JAXAshby wrote: Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada. it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century. Actually it's legal to sell raw milk in both Canada and the U.S. but the dairy and product are subjected to special raw mild standards, which btw, dictates much more cleanliness and expense. See: http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html#can (first Google hit for "raw milk") Stephen |
New killer of cruising sailors
Interesting thread.
My opinions/observations for what they are worth... Food hygene is a personal issue, and everyone has their own threshold. Me? Yes, I wash my hands several times a day...mainly to reduce the chance of getting the flu and colds. Seems to work. Produce? Yep, I at least rinse it...mainly to get rid of as much pesticides as possible. Does it work? Who knows.. Do I eat salad in far away destinations? No. Do I drink the water? Not if I can get bottled water. Should I remain tied to the dock because my opinion of what's safe for me is different from the opinion of others? I don't think so. I'll do what I have to do, and expect you to do the same...:) As regards E. Coli, I thought the bad bugs (which were responsible for the fast-food outbreaks) were due to bovine fecal matter....not human. A book titled "Germs, Steel and Guns" (I think that's the title) suggests that when people started forming communities, illness wiped out a lot of them. The cause seemed to be that instead of people and animals being separated in the open, during their nomadic days, they now were all bunched up to the point of sleeping in common areas with their farm animals and each other. No one knew that cleaning the pens, and a bit of separation was a good thing. It wasn't the only cause of death by any means, but it contributed,and still does today. As been pointed out by others, E.Coli is a moderate risk, absent any other factors...age being the most common. Do we know for a certainity we don't have any other factors on a given day? Of course not, but we shouldn't worry about it....we'd drive ourselves nuts. As for me..I'll avoid exposure if possible...I don't enjoy getting sick just to prove I can eat tainted foods and survive. I think a large degree of risk depends on what your system is used to. When I was a kid growing up in Colorado, we all would flop down on our belly and drink from rivers, creeks, irrigation ditches, etc. (some of which ran through the town dump), and never seemed to suffer ill effects. I'm sure if I did that now..I'd die..lol It's commonly said that people who come to the USA have stomach problems for a few weeks, just as we do when we visit their country. One point we all should remember is that what's OK for one person may not be for another, so advice in a public forum should be qualified, and on the cautious side. Plus, a sample of one does not a trend make...just because my buddy John eats a bug and dies a horrible death doesn't mean that all who eat a bug are going to die too. Then, sometimes, people draw funny conclusions. A co-worker reasoned that since oil/tar/etc was organic, those things should be safe to eat., and not harmful in the least. To prove the point, he ate an orange with *very* greasy hands, and said, "See?" Of course he didn't die, but he spent more time in the head during the next several hours than he normally would in a month. And the belly-ache was nothing to sneeze at either, according to him. I can't believe I've rambled so much...I need to get on the water! Norm B |
New killer of cruising sailors
In article JRCAc.10008$cj3.3167@lakeread01, wrote:
JAXAshby wrote: did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control? THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce. Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines. Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing there are few NDZs in third world countries. :-) Anyone interested in some IN-DEPTH information about the disease producing strain of E. coli known as "E. coli O157:H7" can learn all that is necessary to protect yourself from: http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/ecoli.html |
New killer of cruising sailors
Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines.
Death is not the problem but Montezuma will get his revenge. Good thing there are few NDZs in third world countries. for ***very young children and the elderly*** (compromised immune system), eating lettuce maybe. |
New killer of cruising sailors
Anyone interested in some IN-DEPTH information about the disease producing
strain of E. coli known as "E. coli O157:H7" can learn all that is necessary to protect yourself from: http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/ecoli.html somehow it seems to missed the recommendation that all vegetables be sprayed first with Clorox bleach and then hydrogen peroxide then washed before eating. |
New killer of cruising sailors
grandma, I was being facetious.
anyone worrying about lettuce should never leave the dock. I have not seen any cites that say that cruising sailors have been killed. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...6016594&f=9956 083605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 talks mostly about food safety. And most of the food safety stuff is normal stuff like cans with botulism. The business about washing stuff in bleach that has been fertilized with human waste was something that we did in 1950 when visiting Germany, which isn't usually thought of as a third world country although it was still recovering from WWII of course. Hardly new information even if the E.coli strain that's around now is new. grandma Rosalie |
New killer of cruising sailors
okay, jeffies, let's state it this way. It is illegal to sell unpastuerized
milk in interstate commerce. feel better now? the yo-yo -- without asking his wife's permission -- wrote thusly: Unpasteurized milk might be a bad idea, but it isn't strictly illegal. Once again, Jaxie is just making it up as he goes along: http://www.magma.ca/~ca/rawmilk/survey.htm Maine, along with other states, permits the sale of unpasteurized milk as long as it is handled properly and labeled. Other states allow sale from small farms (a few cows) and some allow joint ownership of producing cows. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Raw milk was the vehicle in a school outbreak in Canada. it is illegal to sell raw milk in Canada or the US of A or any European country or most any other country on the planet. Pasteurization has been the recommended, later required, norm for milk since the 19th century. people terrified by the thoughts of painful illnesses lurking under every lettuce leaf or alfalfa spout they might come across unless they spray household bleach and then household hydrogen peroxide on the food first should never go sailing. cruising sailors die of skin cancer and cigarette smoking and clogged arteries due to high fat foods/too many calories and chronic excess alcohol intake and stepping of sharp rocks and bullet wounds from jealous spouses. "sweating the small stuff" is an absolute indicator one in so far in over one's head that one should seek the council of his/her clergy. |
New killer of cruising sailors
There are several farms near where I live in Connecticut that sell raw
milk. Completely legal. not for interstate commerce. btw bb, are you trying to say that *YOU* are so scared of leaving the dock that *YOU* are worried to death about becoming elderly and infirm at some distant port and _then_ getting the runs for lettuce you didn't first bleach with laundry the hell out and then -- for good measure -- bleach the hell out of it a second time with hydrogen peroxide? Buuuuuuuuuuuut, you ARe willing to gladly drink unpasteurized milk?????????? |
New killer of cruising sailors
Karen :)
PS you can read more of my dribble at the Lats & Atts board too btw! says it all, doesn't it. Frightened of eating lettuce but proudly proclaims to be posting on the Scooter Trash board. |
New killer of cruising sailors
JAXAshby wrote:
did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control? THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce. Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines. Sad, true? Perhaps it would be better for us to ask our doctors how we can build up our immune systems to co-exist with E. Coli - a natural inhabitant of our gut - and other common "health threats." Mabey we should start scratching our asses and stop washing our hands? Don't forget, we evolved to prosper in such an environment: cold, wet, hungry, bug bitten, barefoot and starved. Maybe it's true, as rumoured, that physicians want us to stay sick so they can pump up the turnover of regular "treatments" and prescription commissions instead of curing us. An old friend bemoans the abscence of dry sulfur - used in sulfur and molasses, old time cure all that acording to him works a treat, from our apothocaries and dispensing chemists. Old timer says sulfur and molasses is condemned by doctors because it reduces sicknes and their business. Hay, don't blame me, I didn't make it up. He's 82, he ought to know. Seems the homeopathic folks might have some part of the truth? This brings to mind a thought I let go of years ago- perhaps hamburger should be required to contain, say 5 percet gristle, as a means to nourish our arthritic joints? Perhaps as an "enriched" premium product? Why do we need glucosamine and chondroitin to ease our bones? I know they work for me. Likewise, do we need to supplement out modern diets to enrich our calcium balance? Perhaps going back to eating sardine bones, or chicken ribs? Maybe 5 percent bone meal in the burger, too? That is, if it wasn't a refinery product enriched with concentrated prions from mad animals fed on their own guts and nerve tissue in the name of "business efficiency." How many other "modern nutritional" dietary deficiencies are we unaware of? Our "civilised" diets are hugely un-natural. We need to eat a wide variety of foods, probably better for us raw. Those who live on junk burgers, caffeine drinks and white bread are the examples we need to investigate, and hang the junk food promoters and their lawyers. Those people are all fat and sick, still hungry for some missing nutritional ingredient, morbidly obese! The way it is going, smoking is not gonna cost health care near as much as obesity, and tobacco is taxed far more than food, at least for now. Like all of our other faculties, immune systems thrive on excercise and atrophy without it. Like our muscles, our immune systems probably need challenges to keep them fit. Ask yourself, who's healthier and fitter, us in fear of Montezuma's revenge, or those locals who survive, even thrive on water a litte less than chemically purified? Now, now, don't start on hepatitis, etc. Don't ever forget, some one is using terror tactics to sell "pure" water in cute little plastic designer bottles. The more pure the water, the more powerful it becomes as a solvent for aromatic hydrocarbons, depending on your statistical anlysis. When I was a kid, I drank out of drainage ditches beside the dogs. I seldom if ever get colds, nor have I been sick much, except for my ear, which was "treated" by doctors for many years, improperly, it seems. Terry K E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is standard practice among many long distance cruisers. JAXAshby wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
New killer of cruising sailors
Sounds like you'd be happy eating PURINA DOG CHOW., its got everything
you're clamming for. Dogs who eat it have quite a bit of life extension. g In article le.rogers.com, Terry Spragg wrote: JAXAshby wrote: did anyone bother to read the information from the Centers for Disease Control? THAT stated e. coli can be a problem almost exclusively with the elderly and/or very young children (can you say "compromised immune system?), and even then in the context of fresh vegetables only with lettuce. Anyone afraid of lettuce should never untie their dock lines. Sad, true? Perhaps it would be better for us to ask our doctors how we can build up our immune systems to co-exist with E. Coli - a natural inhabitant of our gut - and other common "health threats." Mabey we should start scratching our asses and stop washing our hands? Don't forget, we evolved to prosper in such an environment: cold, wet, hungry, bug bitten, barefoot and starved. Maybe it's true, as rumoured, that physicians want us to stay sick so they can pump up the turnover of regular "treatments" and prescription commissions instead of curing us. An old friend bemoans the abscence of dry sulfur - used in sulfur and molasses, old time cure all that acording to him works a treat, from our apothocaries and dispensing chemists. Old timer says sulfur and molasses is condemned by doctors because it reduces sicknes and their business. Hay, don't blame me, I didn't make it up. He's 82, he ought to know. Seems the homeopathic folks might have some part of the truth? This brings to mind a thought I let go of years ago- perhaps hamburger should be required to contain, say 5 percet gristle, as a means to nourish our arthritic joints? Perhaps as an "enriched" premium product? Why do we need glucosamine and chondroitin to ease our bones? I know they work for me. Likewise, do we need to supplement out modern diets to enrich our calcium balance? Perhaps going back to eating sardine bones, or chicken ribs? Maybe 5 percent bone meal in the burger, too? That is, if it wasn't a refinery product enriched with concentrated prions from mad animals fed on their own guts and nerve tissue in the name of "business efficiency." How many other "modern nutritional" dietary deficiencies are we unaware of? Our "civilised" diets are hugely un-natural. We need to eat a wide variety of foods, probably better for us raw. Those who live on junk burgers, caffeine drinks and white bread are the examples we need to investigate, and hang the junk food promoters and their lawyers. Those people are all fat and sick, still hungry for some missing nutritional ingredient, morbidly obese! The way it is going, smoking is not gonna cost health care near as much as obesity, and tobacco is taxed far more than food, at least for now. Like all of our other faculties, immune systems thrive on excercise and atrophy without it. Like our muscles, our immune systems probably need challenges to keep them fit. Ask yourself, who's healthier and fitter, us in fear of Montezuma's revenge, or those locals who survive, even thrive on water a litte less than chemically purified? Now, now, don't start on hepatitis, etc. Don't ever forget, some one is using terror tactics to sell "pure" water in cute little plastic designer bottles. The more pure the water, the more powerful it becomes as a solvent for aromatic hydrocarbons, depending on your statistical anlysis. When I was a kid, I drank out of drainage ditches beside the dogs. I seldom if ever get colds, nor have I been sick much, except for my ear, which was "treated" by doctors for many years, improperly, it seems. Terry K E. Coli is not much of a problem in the US where vegetables are grown with chemical fertilizer. A fresh water rinse is usually all that is needed. Because we are rarely exposed to it, our immune systems have lost much of our ability to fight E. Coli infections. OTOH, Many smaller countries where cruisers may shop for produce use manure, both animal and human for fertilizer. The locals have developed a tollerance for it but it is ALWAYS a good idea to rinse veggies purchased in third world markets in a dilute solution of chlorine bleach and water. It is standard practice among many long distance cruisers. JAXAshby wrote: Why, it is E.Coli from fresh vegetables. For two million years, humans have been eating fresh vegetables and finally we learn we can die from it. What incredible stuff one can find out about on the Internet. http://takehersailingboard.infopop.c...016594&f=99560 83605&m=630105035&r=479100135#479100135 btw, here what the FDA has to say about E.Coli. Not that the most susiptble are the very young and the elderly, which of course is most cruising sailors out there. http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap15.html -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
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