Bedding deck fittings.
 

I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Bedding deck fittings.
 

Since you asked for opinions ...

I would paint first, then reinstall the hardware.
If there is a paint failure, it should not affect the hardware mounting.
Also, depending on the hardware, even taped, it will be awkward to paint.

With respect to reinstalling the hardwa

1. I would suggest using polysulfide for bedding, as it is an adhesive and a
sealant, ages well, remains moderately flexible, and is paintable.
Silicone is good except that the area and any 'mess' will likely never hold
paint.
5200 will bond the hardware and will be very difficult to remove.

Whichever bedding compound is used, do not fully tighten down the hardware
until the bedding has (mostly) cured. A day later, tighten it down, putting
final compression on the bedding.
When I have done my hardware, I have added a locktite to nuts after the
final tightening.

2. Ensure there is sufficient backup under the deck to take the loading
intended for the hardware. Now is your opportunity to improve your boat.



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Bedding deck fittings.
 

On Mon, 31 May 2004 15:34:49 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

The real question is....how cheap is the paint and/or the paint job?

If you're using house paint, and will have to re-do it in a few years
'cause it's starting to look a little crappy....stick the fittings on
first.

If you're likely to break, replace, or refurbish the fittings prior to
an expectation of re-painting, put the paint down first.

If you are holding the old fitting in your hand, and you took it off
the boat with the expectation of putting it back on....and if it were
to taken off intentionally, sometime in the future...even if not by
you, and were to be re-used; don't use 5200.

If it were to come off in the future, for maintenance or whim, and
does not outweight the damamge and aggravation in it's removal; use
5200.

Otherwize...use something else.

There are exceptions to these rules of thumb.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

"Horace Brownbag" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 15:34:49 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I am quickly coming to the point of rebedding the deck fittings
on my boat. A brief history: wood decks off, screw holes filled,
core voids filled, now doing final sanding. I asked someone
(a boat yard professional) whether to rebed the fitting on the raw glass
or wait until after painting and bed them on top of the paint. He
said it is best to bed in the raw glass (gelcoat actually), then mask
them off and paint around them. That way if there is a paint failure
I won't have to deal with rebedding them again. Also, much easier to
remove them, sand under then and rebed them than have them all out
and having to fill them temporarily against the WX while painting is
going on.

The real question is....how cheap is the paint and/or the paint job?

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty muc the best their is from what I understand.

If you're using house paint, and will have to re-do it in a few years
'cause it's starting to look a little crappy....stick the fittings on
first.

Gimme a break! House paint?

If you're likely to break, replace, or refurbish the fittings prior to
an expectation of re-painting, put the paint down first.

If you are holding the old fitting in your hand, and you took it off
the boat with the expectation of putting it back on....and if it were
to taken off intentionally, sometime in the future...even if not by
you, and were to be re-used; don't use 5200.

No kidding. I rarely find much use for 5200.

If it were to come off in the future, for maintenance or whim, and
does not outweight the damamge and aggravation in it's removal; use
5200.

Not likely.

Otherwize...use something else.

There are exceptions to these rules of thumb.

Many it would appear.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

"Matt" writes:

Since you asked for opinions ...

I would paint first, then reinstall the hardware.

Agree.

If there is a paint failure, it should not affect the hardware mounting.
Also, depending on the hardware, even taped, it will be awkward to paint.

Agree.

With respect to reinstalling the hardwa

1. I would suggest using polysulfide for bedding, as it is an adhesive and
a
sealant, ages well, remains moderately flexible, and is paintable.
Silicone is good except that the area and any 'mess' will likely never
hold
paint.
5200 will bond the hardware and will be very difficult to remove.

Silicone and 5200 definitely do not apply to this task.

Whichever bedding compound is used, do not fully tighten down the hardware
until the bedding has (mostly) cured. A day later, tighten it down,
putting
final compression on the bedding.

Mask the area with tape then place the fitting over taped area and cut
around fitting with sharp knife.

Remove fitting and tape under fitting.

Bed fitting using the old finishing nail trick.

Use about an 8d finish nail spacing around the perimeter of the fitting at
1" intervals with head just inside the perimeter of the fitting pointing
out.

Bed fitting and snug up against nail heads, allowing time to cure a few
days, then remove finish nails, masking tape around fitting and snug fitting
down.

Time for some brewskis.

HTH



--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Bedding deck fittings.
 

Thanks for all the advise, but all I was looking for was the bed before
vs bed after decision. I've bedded a few hundred deck fittings in my
days, but this is the first time I have totally stripped and repainted a
deck.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
link.net...

"Matt" writes:

Since you asked for opinions ...

I would paint first, then reinstall the hardware.

Agree.

If there is a paint failure, it should not affect the hardware mounting.
Also, depending on the hardware, even taped, it will be awkward to
paint.

Agree.

With respect to reinstalling the hardwa

1. I would suggest using polysulfide for bedding, as it is an adhesive
and
a
sealant, ages well, remains moderately flexible, and is paintable.
Silicone is good except that the area and any 'mess' will likely never
hold
paint.
5200 will bond the hardware and will be very difficult to remove.

Silicone and 5200 definitely do not apply to this task.

Whichever bedding compound is used, do not fully tighten down the
hardware
until the bedding has (mostly) cured. A day later, tighten it down,
putting
final compression on the bedding.

Mask the area with tape then place the fitting over taped area and cut
around fitting with sharp knife.

Remove fitting and tape under fitting.

Bed fitting using the old finishing nail trick.

Use about an 8d finish nail spacing around the perimeter of the fitting at
1" intervals with head just inside the perimeter of the fitting pointing
out.

Bed fitting and snug up against nail heads, allowing time to cure a few
days, then remove finish nails, masking tape around fitting and snug
fitting
down.

Time for some brewskis.

HTH



--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Bedding deck fittings.
 

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:47:21 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty much the best their is from what I understand.

================================================== ===

FWIW, In all of the commercial AwlGrip jobs I've ever seen, they
painted first.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

Difference is that my job is my own doing. If I was getting it done
professionally I wouldn't be worried about it. I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:47:21 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty much the best their is from what I understand.

================================================== ===

FWIW, In all of the commercial AwlGrip jobs I've ever seen, they
painted first.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:27:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:
I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

=====================================

I think you'll be happier with the end result if you take off the
hardware first. That's why the pros do it that way. You can cover
the deck with tarps to keep the rain out while you're reinstalling and
rebedding.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

What's the likelyhood of Awlgrip "failing" under a pad of bedding
compressed to, say 100 PSI ? Chemical attack? Abrasion? Old age?

What's the likelyhood that water will get under the paint if it _did_
fail, by losing adhesion I presume (consider the compressed backing
squashed down at over 100 PSI by the base of your fitting)?

What do you think adheres better to a properly prepared surface, paint
or bedding?

From what I've read, poly GRP is water permeable (eventually; think
blisters), and to provide good service life, it needs to be painted to
exclude water. Do you want to have water "working" on your GRP under a
slightly loose fitting that you don't notice for a couple years (say a
sail track), or do you want to have the Awlgrip get damp under the fitting?

A little nitty-picky perhaps, but then, what exactly did the guy mean by
"paint failure"? Totally protected and under a compressed pad of backing?

Rufus

Bedding deck fittings.
 

That wasn't the question.

s/v Callista

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:27:23 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:
I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

=====================================

I think you'll be happier with the end result if you take off the
hardware first. That's why the pros do it that way. You can cover
the deck with tarps to keep the rain out while you're reinstalling and
rebedding.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

Just put a little dab of lifecaulk in each hole when you remove the
fittings. It'll be fine in weather, and when you reinstall the screws, it'll
just squeeze out.

--


Keith
__
"Application denied. One cannot fertilize with flatus."
-Abraham Lincoln, on rejecting homeopathic medications for the
dispensary of the US troops.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Difference is that my job is my own doing. If I was getting it done
professionally I wouldn't be worried about it. I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:47:21 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty much the best their is from what I
understand.

================================================== ===

FWIW, In all of the commercial AwlGrip jobs I've ever seen, they
painted first.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

I'm not too worried about the little stuff. It's the 24" square holes
left by the hatches that become a problem.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Just put a little dab of lifecaulk in each hole when you remove the
fittings. It'll be fine in weather, and when you reinstall the screws,
it'll
just squeeze out.

--


Keith
__
"Application denied. One cannot fertilize with flatus."
-Abraham Lincoln, on rejecting homeopathic medications for the
dispensary of the US troops.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Difference is that my job is my own doing. If I was getting it done
professionally I wouldn't be worried about it. I'm looking for
alternatives while balancing removing the deck hardware and
keeping the WX out until I get the deck painted and the hardware
rebedded.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:47:21 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

It will be AwlGrip. Pretty much the best their is from what I
understand.

================================================== ===

FWIW, In all of the commercial AwlGrip jobs I've ever seen, they
painted first.

Bedding deck fittings.
 

Doug,

:) Yeah, those could be a problem in a hard rain. Well looks like you have the choice of leaving
them on and painting around them, or doing something like duct taping heavy plastic over the holes
while the hatches are removed.

Of course, you could just leave everything else off, but re-install the hatches between work
sessions. If you used a temporary rubber gasket (such as the stick on stuff they sell at home
depot) to bed the hatches temporarily, they should be mostly watertight, and you'd just pull up the
temporary gaskets while working on the deck. Since the material comes in rolls you could just throw
out the used material and make new ones every time you replaced the hatches. Or a better idea is to
put the sticky side of the material to the hatches, so that you could just pull them up. (Thinking
on my feet here). Not a solution for green water over the deck, but it should keep the rain out
while you're working on her.

In either case (duct tape and plastic, or replacing the hatches) you'll have to make sure that the
primer / paint / whatever is good and dry before covering the hatches or you'll be pulling it off
the next time you remove the hatches. Of course, that stuff dries pretty fast in the sun.

Good luck with it,

Don W.

Doug Dotson wrote:
I'm not too worried about the little stuff. It's the 24" square holes
left by the hatches that become a problem.

Doug
s/v Callista

Bedding deck fittings.
 

I got some Lexan from Home Depot and made temporary
covers, bedded them in BoatLife (polysulfide) and screwed
them down. My plan is to recondition the removed hatches,
apply some sort of finish where the hatch will be bedded,
and reinstall them for good. Then mask and paint around them
when the time comes. The little stuff can stay off until the
painting is complete.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Don W" wrote in message
m...
Doug,

:) Yeah, those could be a problem in a hard rain. Well looks like you
have the choice of leaving
them on and painting around them, or doing something like duct taping
heavy plastic over the holes
while the hatches are removed.

Of course, you could just leave everything else off, but re-install the
hatches between work
sessions. If you used a temporary rubber gasket (such as the stick on
stuff they sell at home
depot) to bed the hatches temporarily, they should be mostly watertight,
and you'd just pull up the
temporary gaskets while working on the deck. Since the material comes in
rolls you could just throw
out the used material and make new ones every time you replaced the
hatches. Or a better idea is to
put the sticky side of the material to the hatches, so that you could just
pull them up. (Thinking
on my feet here). Not a solution for green water over the deck, but it
should keep the rain out
while you're working on her.

In either case (duct tape and plastic, or replacing the hatches) you'll
have to make sure that the
primer / paint / whatever is good and dry before covering the hatches or
you'll be pulling it off
the next time you remove the hatches. Of course, that stuff dries pretty
fast in the sun.

Good luck with it,

Don W.

Doug Dotson wrote:
I'm not too worried about the little stuff. It's the 24" square holes
left by the hatches that become a problem.

Doug
s/v Callista

Bedding deck fittings.
 

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:46:52 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I got some Lexan from Home Depot and made temporary
covers, bedded them in BoatLife (polysulfide) and screwed
them down. My plan is to recondition the removed hatches,
apply some sort of finish snip


http://www.por15.com/product.asp?productid=246

....works for me.