On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:31:52 -0700, slide
wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:


Though I can't disagree with anything you've said, I do think the
Israeli jews believe they will be slaughtered, or exiled from Israel
should they treat Palestinians like we in the U.S. treat Mexicans or
blacks. I'm not sure of that, but if were an Israeli I suspect I
would take that tack. Though we've been multicultural throughout our
history, there is plenty of opposition here in the U.S. to letting the
language aspect of multiculturalism bleed into everyday life. I get a
bit ****ed every time I'm asked to choose 1 or 2 on the phone.
Wouldn't think of moving to Mexico and conducting business on the
phone without speaking Spanish.
So I'm sure we agree on some things.
My support for the Palestinians dried up when Israel finally withdrew
from the occupied territories and I saw the result.
Not a damned thing changed.
Blood lust. Not too different than the other radical Muslims.
Except when I feel the lust myself - and I have - I take no sides.
These are just off the cuff remarks, and I may be wrong about much of
it, and since nobody pays for my opinions, that's what they're worth.
Nothing. But I do like to write them down now and then.
And hear others' opinions.



The reasoning you give for the Jews demanding an essentially ethnically
clean State is the one that Israelis living here have said to me. Their
argument is identical to the whites in South Africa before the black
takeover. They won't live in a non-Jewish (non white when it comes to
SA) state.

There are parallels, but Rhodesia might be a better example of the end
result. And I actually think the Muslim/Jew divide in that area of
the globe is greater than the black/white divide anywhere.
There are also historical "homeland" elements which are quite
different.

Why? Would those same Jews demand that no area, no voting district, no
precinct in the US be less than 51% white?

I don't like it. I just don't see any other answer for the Israelis
from their view. I really don't think they are happy with it
philosophically, but see it in simple survival terms.

The problem, as I understand it, with the areas now in fully Palestinian
hands is that there are no ways to make a living there. There is no
industry. No capital. Nothing. Sure, many impoverished Jews showed up in
Israel during the past 60 years (or more) but they were sponsored by
wealthy Jews from other lands such as Britain and the USA.

As I recall it, after the Israeli withdrawal from occupied
territories, and before the wall and checkpoints, there were numerous
suicide bombings.
What's the solution to that?

What causes radical Muslims? Part of it must be that there is nothing
for them to lose in this world so they become easy to convince that
their payoff is in taking out a few Jews rather than living a welfare
life in some camp forever. Look at these guys as being Mexicans peering
across the border to a prosperous land they wish to enter & work in.
They can't because they are caged up, wall up and patrolled with machine
guns.

Somebody has already mentioned the democracy aspect.
Mexico has a democracy.
The Palestinian democracy elected Hamas to lead.
There are so many differences in the situations, that drawing
parallels is practically fruitless.
Israel basically stands alone.
Throw in Iran, the Sunni Jew/Christian-hating sects, etc, etc., and it
only gets worse.
The root of the problem isn't Israel, it's Muslim theocracy.
My opinion.

I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these guys.
Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't looking at
the entire picture.

I used to think the U.S. could solve this by taking an even-handed
approach, and threaten U.S. retaliation against whichever side broke
agreements. Lay down some equitable standards both side would agree
to and all would be well.
Sharon's expansion of settlements into the West Bank and Gaza really
****ed me off. I was happy - and surprised - to see the Israelis pull
out. Wasn't a PM assassinated by an Israeli extremist because of
that?
Sorry, I'm a bit tired of even keeping up.
In any case, I'm sure the Israelis would like to live in peace.
The Arabs will not allow it.
Again, I might be wrong. But this is one of the few things where I
just can't draw on my inherent optimism.
I can feel the blood lust on both sides.

--Vic