"Janet O'Leary" wrote in news:a0u2l.2578
:

Where is the cut through point?


Ask Skip and Lydia about cutting through the Keys.

I believe you'll be told to put it out of your mind and go around Key West
in the deep water.

Go to http://maps.google.com/

Tell it to find Marathon Florida.

Once it does, click on SATELLITE view in the upper right corner so you can
see the bottom from the mainland to Cuba. The satellite pictures are
stunning, not to mention horrifying, of the shifting bars and hazards
around the Florida Keys in such clear water.

Very treacherous waters, indeed.

When you zoom in close, the pictures become even more revealing. You can
actually see the sandbars MOVING when the satellite snapped the photo!
This has got to be the WORST place to sail on the planet.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Janet O'Leary" wrote in news:a0u2l.2578
:

Where is the cut through point?


Ask Skip and Lydia about cutting through the Keys.

I believe you'll be told to put it out of your mind and go around Key West
in the deep water.

Go to http://maps.google.com/

Tell it to find Marathon Florida.

Once it does, click on SATELLITE view in the upper right corner so you can
see the bottom from the mainland to Cuba. The satellite pictures are
stunning, not to mention horrifying, of the shifting bars and hazards
around the Florida Keys in such clear water.

Very treacherous waters, indeed.

When you zoom in close, the pictures become even more revealing. You can
actually see the sandbars MOVING when the satellite snapped the photo!
This has got to be the WORST place to sail on the planet.


Sorry, Larry, but your ignorance, reliance on book learning and jumping to
false conclusions are showing again. You try to sound like a expert on
everything and it's pretty darned obvious from many of your idiotic
statements that you lack real knowledge in many areas.

The Florida Keys are my home sailing grounds. There is very little shifting
of sandbars. I don't know what drugs you are on but you certainly can't see
them shifting in satellite photos. As a matter of fact sand is in relatively
short supply in the Keys. There is more rock and mud than sand.

On the Florida Bay side it's mostly all mud. There resides the Intracoastal
Waterway and the Yacht Channel up to the Gulf of Mexico. Five or six feet
depth all the way. In and along Hawk Channel on the ocean side it's mostly
coral rock with only a few sandy beaches. The rest of it is bare, water worn
coral rock. Hawk Channel is a very safe place to sail. The barrier reef
knocks out the seas from the Straits. The Island chain provides a barrier to
the north. There are a few areas with charted coral heads and patch reefs
that need to be given a wide berth but it's no problem to do so either
visually or using GPS.

Anybody who can't sail safely through the Keys on either side of the island
chain is incompetent or inept or stupid and poor Skippy was all three when
he came through here running aground at every opportunity and making an ass
out of himself, not to mention giving sailors a bad name. I have been
sailing the Keys for over 25 years and have YET to run aground. There's no
excuse for it.

Wilbur Hubbard

The Florida Keys are my home sailing grounds. There is very little
shifting of sandbars. I don't know what drugs you are on but you certainly
can't see them shifting in satellite photos. As a matter of fact sand is
in relatively short supply in the Keys. There is more rock and mud than
sand.

On the Florida Bay side it's mostly all mud. There resides the
Intracoastal Waterway and the Yacht Channel up to the Gulf of Mexico. Five
or six feet depth all the way. In and along Hawk Channel on the ocean
side it's mostly coral rock with only a few sandy beaches. The rest of it
is bare, water worn coral rock. Hawk Channel is a very safe place to sail.
The barrier reef knocks out the seas from the Straits. The Island chain
provides a barrier to the north. There are a few areas with charted coral
heads and patch reefs that need to be given a wide berth but it's no
problem to do so either visually or using GPS.

Anybody who can't sail safely through the Keys on either side of the
island chain is incompetent or inept or stupid and poor Skippy was all
three when he came through here running aground at every opportunity and
making an ass out of himself, not to mention giving sailors a bad name. I
have been sailing the Keys for over 25 years and have YET to run aground.
There's no excuse for it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Hubbard ,, this boat has a draft of 5'10" .. pretty deep, she was not
designed to
be a cruising boat, but is a cruising boat .. go figure.

Anyhow,, since you are the expert.. ...

The boat would be coming from Tampa. Heading toward Ft Lauderdale..
So, if she can't get through the canal [ not enough depth ] or the mast is
too high ..

Then she must be sailed all the way to Key West? And then around, and up?
Is that correct? How far is that?

Are there harbors along the way?

Is it better to go outside, then down to Key West?

Don't have any charts as yet.

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:15:24 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:

The boat would be coming from Tampa. Heading toward Ft Lauderdale..
So, if she can't get through the canal [ not enough depth ] or the mast is
too high ..

Then she must be sailed all the way to Key West? And then around, and up?
Is that correct? How far is that?

Are there harbors along the way?

Is it better to go outside, then down to Key West?

Don't have any charts as yet.

By way of qualification, I live in the Ft Myers area, approximately
halfway between Tampa and the Keys. Your limiting factor for the
Okeechobee Waterway will be mast height, roughly 49 ft unless you heel
the boat. Your other choice is to go through the Keys - either at
Marathon which should be doable, or all the way around Key West.
Going around Key West adds about 100 miles vs Marathon/Moser Channel.
The Okeechobee Waterway saves about 250 miles and is protected water
the entire distance. The outside run from Tampa can be rough in a
winter nor'wester, pick your days and route carefully. Coming south
from Tampa there are overnight options at Venice, Boca Grande, Sanibel
Island, Ft Myers Beach, Naples and Marco Island. If the tide is
right you can get in behind the islands near Everglades City or anchor
at Little Shark River in the Everglades. If the wind is out of the
east, and it frequently is in the winter, you can anchor north of
Middle Cape Sable for the night.

Charts are available on the web he

http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/

In addition to charts you will want to pick up a "Southern Waterway
Guide" - it has lots of good information:

http://www.waterwayguide.com/edition...=southern_2009


You really need to have some experienced help for the trip. While
not extremely difficult, it is not a complete cake walk either,
especially in the winter time. It would be money well spent to hire
a licensed delivery captain for your first big adventure. They will
have the knowledge and experience to stay out of trouble, and the
ability to deal with problems if they do arise. Just my 2 cents
worth.

"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...


The Florida Keys are my home sailing grounds. There is very little
shifting of sandbars. I don't know what drugs you are on but you
certainly can't see them shifting in satellite photos. As a matter of
fact sand is in relatively short supply in the Keys. There is more rock
and mud than sand.

On the Florida Bay side it's mostly all mud. There resides the
Intracoastal Waterway and the Yacht Channel up to the Gulf of Mexico.
Five or six feet depth all the way. In and along Hawk Channel on the
ocean side it's mostly coral rock with only a few sandy beaches. The rest
of it is bare, water worn coral rock. Hawk Channel is a very safe place
to sail. The barrier reef knocks out the seas from the Straits. The
Island chain provides a barrier to the north. There are a few areas with
charted coral heads and patch reefs that need to be given a wide berth
but it's no problem to do so either visually or using GPS.

Anybody who can't sail safely through the Keys on either side of the
island chain is incompetent or inept or stupid and poor Skippy was all
three when he came through here running aground at every opportunity and
making an ass out of himself, not to mention giving sailors a bad name. I
have been sailing the Keys for over 25 years and have YET to run aground.
There's no excuse for it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Hubbard ,, this boat has a draft of 5'10" .. pretty deep, she was not
designed to
be a cruising boat, but is a cruising boat .. go figure.

Anyhow,, since you are the expert.. ...

The boat would be coming from Tampa. Heading toward Ft Lauderdale..
So, if she can't get through the canal [ not enough depth ] or the mast
is
too high ..

The Okeechobee is for motor heads and sissies who freak if they aren't in
constant contact with land. It's a poor choice IMO. Just the wakes alone
from inconsiderate motor boat cretins will make you want to shoot somebody.

Sailing down the west coast of Florida from Tampa Bay is a piece of cake
provided you keep an eye on the weather. Working the back side of cold
fronts is the thing to do. One can plan it so one can stop every night to
anchor.

There is no need to do the Moser Channel thing. Anchoring in the Little
Shark River mouth allows you easy access to the Yacht Channel through the
Sprigger and Arsenic Banks into the Intracoastal Waterway well north of
Marathon. There is enough depth, plenty enough at high tide. Last time
though the Yacht Channel (Hurricane Wilma) there was close to eight feet
there. Using the Yacht Channel makes for an easy and safe run to Channel #5
bridge which has 65 feet clearance MLW. Once into Hawk Channel working up to
Lauderdale is a piece of cake. One can anchor every night. Or the
alternative is just to stay in the Intracoastal where the Yacht Channel
meets it. This requires lots of motoring, however. But it is comfy and
sheltered and there is some opportunity to sail the various bays and sounds
between the creeks. They've even built a new high rise bridge at Jewfish
Creek to replace the old bascule bridge.

The Intracoastal option allows you to hit some of the more famous Islamorada
and Key Largo bars such as the Lorelie, Caribbean Club, Gilberts

Then she must be sailed all the way to Key West? And then around, and up?
Is that correct? How far is that?

Incorrect as stated above.


Are there harbors along the way?

Yes.


Is it better to go outside, then down to Key West?

Don't have any charts as yet.

I prefer the route(s) mentioned above. It can be done in a series of short
hops anchored every night. Sailing in and around the Keys or in the shallows
along the west coast of Florida is not prudent at night. One learns to read
water depth by eye and you can't see squat at night.

You'll need charts for sure. One of these chart kit books will do just fine.
Chart kit BBA, Florida WEST coast and the Keys
Region 8 by Better Boating Association

http://openlibrary.org/b/OL12174601M

It would be a good idea to ship an experienced skipper who knows this route
and has traveled it a few times. Inexperienced skippers might fall prey to
traps such as the entrance to the Yacht Channel from the north seeming to
have the Red and Green lights switched. Going throught there at night using
red right returning will run you hard aground. (they are actually correct
but from the north, due to the dogleg of the channel they appear switched.)

Wilbur Hubbard.

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:32:48 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

There is no need to do the Moser Channel thing. Anchoring in the Little
Shark River mouth allows you easy access to the Yacht Channel through the
Sprigger and Arsenic Banks into the Intracoastal Waterway well north of
Marathon. There is enough depth, plenty enough at high tide. Last time
though the Yacht Channel (Hurricane Wilma) there was close to eight feet
there. Using the Yacht Channel makes for an easy and safe run to Channel #5
bridge which has 65 feet clearance MLW.

At low tide in the winter, the approach to Little Shark River has
barely 5 feet of water, same with the Yacht Channel north of the
Channel Five bridge. We were through there 6 months ago in the summer
and dragged our 5 1/2 ft draft through the mud a couple of times.
That is why I recommend Moser Channel east of Marathon where I've
never seen less than 6 1/2 ft.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:32:48 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

There is no need to do the Moser Channel thing. Anchoring in the Little
Shark River mouth allows you easy access to the Yacht Channel through the
Sprigger and Arsenic Banks into the Intracoastal Waterway well north of
Marathon. There is enough depth, plenty enough at high tide. Last time
though the Yacht Channel (Hurricane Wilma) there was close to eight feet
there. Using the Yacht Channel makes for an easy and safe run to Channel
#5
bridge which has 65 feet clearance MLW.

At low tide in the winter, the approach to Little Shark River has
barely 5 feet of water, same with the Yacht Channel north of the
Channel Five bridge. We were through there 6 months ago in the summer
and dragged our 5 1/2 ft draft through the mud a couple of times.
That is why I recommend Moser Channel east of Marathon where I've
never seen less than 6 1/2 ft.


Duh, navigate shallow areas on a rising tide. Those who don't are no
sailors. Preferably at about the top half of a rising tide. That way any
little grounding and all you have to do is wait a little while and float
right off. A little soft mud on the bottom of your keel doesn't harm
anything.

Oh, I've seen more than a few 45-footers in the Shark River hiding from
hurricanes. Some of them draw six feet and more. You get them over the bar
at high tide. It's that simple.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:26:18 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Duh, navigate shallow areas on a rising tide. Those who don't are no
sailors. Preferably at about the top half of a rising tide. That way any
little grounding and all you have to do is wait a little while and float
right off. A little soft mud on the bottom of your keel doesn't harm
anything.

Waiting is for dock sailors. I prefer 600 horsepower and twin 30
inch props.

It *will* get you off.