"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:30:28 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
snipped

If you end up using rivets, these are the ones you want:

http://www.airsuppliers.com/Aircraft...R_AIRCRAFT.htm

I find it strange that the information on this site about rivets tells you
everything except the piece of information you most want, namely what the
'nominal diameter' actually is.


The rivet part number tells you the nominal diameter #4 = .125, for
example. the second number is the length. Google on +rivet +part
number for more details.

Thanks. I suppose anyone in the aircraft business is supposed to know this
because if you click the link for more details it still does not reveal the
nominal size, just that.
# 4 is nominal, 5 and 6 are oversize. All of them seem a bit large for
fixing a whisker pole track to the mast.

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:34:40 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:


"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:30:28 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
snipped

If you end up using rivets, these are the ones you want:

http://www.airsuppliers.com/Aircraft...R_AIRCRAFT.htm

I find it strange that the information on this site about rivets tells you
everything except the piece of information you most want, namely what the
'nominal diameter' actually is.


The rivet part number tells you the nominal diameter #4 = .125, for
example. the second number is the length. Google on +rivet +part
number for more details.

Thanks. I suppose anyone in the aircraft business is supposed to know this
because if you click the link for more details it still does not reveal the
nominal size, just that.
# 4 is nominal, 5 and 6 are oversize. All of them seem a bit large for
fixing a whisker pole track to the mast.



No, I said to google on rivets and the part number. That will lead you
to a several sites that explain the rivet size coding's. But you are
right, anyone who's life is banging rivets in the side of an airplane
will be likely to understand rivet sizing (Size is in 32nds of an
inch).

But you don't need to use cherry rivets you can also use aluminum "pop
rivets". You may need to space them a little closer but they will hold
unless your track is tremendously over stressed.

The SS machine screws suggested will also work. Just coat them with
any of the various sealants - 3M 5200, Sekaflex, maybe even house
silicon sealant. They may be a little stiff to remove but I've been
doing it for years with no corrosion and no problems in removal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:



No, I said to google on rivets and the part number. That will lead you
to a several sites that explain the rivet size coding's. But you are
right, anyone who's life is banging rivets in the side of an airplane
will be likely to understand rivet sizing (Size is in 32nds of an
inch).

But you don't need to use cherry rivets you can also use aluminum "pop
rivets". You may need to space them a little closer but they will hold
unless your track is tremendously over stressed.

The SS machine screws suggested will also work. Just coat them with
any of the various sealants - 3M 5200, Sekaflex, maybe even house
silicon sealant. They may be a little stiff to remove but I've been
doing it for years with no corrosion and no problems in removal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I kinds have an issue with screws in the mast.
Unless the wall thickness is at least 2x the diameter, there just isn't
a lot of thread in the mast.

Properly sized pull rivets would be a better choice for structural
reliability.

Maybe a big pain to install, but more secure...

FWIW...

Richard

Richard wrote:
Bruce In Bangkok wrote:



No, I said to google on rivets and the part number. That will lead you
to a several sites that explain the rivet size coding's. But you are
right, anyone who's life is banging rivets in the side of an airplane
will be likely to understand rivet sizing (Size is in 32nds of an
inch).

But you don't need to use cherry rivets you can also use aluminum "pop
rivets". You may need to space them a little closer but they will hold
unless your track is tremendously over stressed.

The SS machine screws suggested will also work. Just coat them with
any of the various sealants - 3M 5200, Sekaflex, maybe even house
silicon sealant. They may be a little stiff to remove but I've been
doing it for years with no corrosion and no problems in removal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I kinds have an issue with screws in the mast.
Unless the wall thickness is at least 2x the diameter, there just isn't
a lot of thread in the mast.


I don't think you need that much, 3 full threads should be sufficient.
Even at that you are probably correct, the wall is not thick enough for
even that.

I have a compound rivet tool that will let me install 1/4" shank rivets
with hand pressure alone.

Cheers
Martin

Marty wrote:

Richard wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:




No, I said to google on rivets and the part number. That will lead you
to a several sites that explain the rivet size coding's. But you are
right, anyone who's life is banging rivets in the side of an airplane
will be likely to understand rivet sizing (Size is in 32nds of an
inch).

But you don't need to use cherry rivets you can also use aluminum "pop
rivets". You may need to space them a little closer but they will hold
unless your track is tremendously over stressed.

The SS machine screws suggested will also work. Just coat them with
any of the various sealants - 3M 5200, Sekaflex, maybe even house
silicon sealant. They may be a little stiff to remove but I've been
doing it for years with no corrosion and no problems in removal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I kinds have an issue with screws in the mast.
Unless the wall thickness is at least 2x the diameter, there just isn't
a lot of thread in the mast.



I don't think you need that much, 3 full threads should be sufficient.
Even at that you are probably correct, the wall is not thick enough for
even that.

I have a compound rivet tool that will let me install 1/4" shank rivets
with hand pressure alone.

Cheers
Martin

Find a link for it, Martin, because I want one too!

Richard wrote:


I have a compound rivet tool that will let me install 1/4" shank
rivets with hand pressure alone.

Cheers
Martin

Find a link for it, Martin, because I want one too!

Richard, I got mine from a company called Princess Auto,

www.princessauto.ca

If you go to their site you can download a PDF of their catalogue, or a
portion thereof, you want the hand tools section, Page 288 item "D",
"21" long handled riveter @$54.99", thats Canadian, so your price should
be less. I don't know if they ship international, but I've getting stuff
in the mail from them for more than 20 years.

Cheers
Martin

Marty wrote:

Richard wrote:


I have a compound rivet tool that will let me install 1/4" shank
rivets with hand pressure alone.

Cheers
Martin


Find a link for it, Martin, because I want one too!


Richard, I got mine from a company called Princess Auto,

www.princessauto.ca

If you go to their site you can download a PDF of their catalogue, or a
portion thereof, you want the hand tools section, Page 288 item "D",
"21" long handled riveter @$54.99", thats Canadian, so your price should
be less. I don't know if they ship international, but I've getting stuff
in the mail from them for more than 20 years.

Cheers
Martin



Now that was sudden service!
I've downloaded the catalog.
Will dig into it tonight offline.

That's the one tool I have that had to have an air compressor.
A manual tool is for sure the solution on the boat.

Thanks, Martin!


Richard

Marty wrote:

Richard wrote:


I have a compound rivet tool that will let me install 1/4" shank
rivets with hand pressure alone.

Cheers
Martin


Find a link for it, Martin, because I want one too!


Richard, I got mine from a company called Princess Auto,

www.princessauto.ca

If you go to their site you can download a PDF of their catalogue, or a
portion thereof, you want the hand tools section, Page 288 item "D",
"21" long handled riveter @$54.99", thats Canadian, so your price should
be less. I don't know if they ship international, but I've getting stuff
in the mail from them for more than 20 years.

Cheers
Martin



Thanks Martin,
That was quick!

Richard

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:40:29 -0600, Richard
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:



No, I said to google on rivets and the part number. That will lead you
to a several sites that explain the rivet size coding's. But you are
right, anyone who's life is banging rivets in the side of an airplane
will be likely to understand rivet sizing (Size is in 32nds of an
inch).

But you don't need to use cherry rivets you can also use aluminum "pop
rivets". You may need to space them a little closer but they will hold
unless your track is tremendously over stressed.

The SS machine screws suggested will also work. Just coat them with
any of the various sealants - 3M 5200, Sekaflex, maybe even house
silicon sealant. They may be a little stiff to remove but I've been
doing it for years with no corrosion and no problems in removal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I kinds have an issue with screws in the mast.
Unless the wall thickness is at least 2x the diameter, there just isn't
a lot of thread in the mast.


Actually, it's a good idea to go with the largest diameter screw that
you can reasonably use. A screw will have more holding power than a
pop-rivet that doesn't have a backing plate, and more sheer strength,
regardless..

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:40:29 -0600, Richard
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:



No, I said to google on rivets and the part number. That will lead you
to a several sites that explain the rivet size coding's. But you are
right, anyone who's life is banging rivets in the side of an airplane
will be likely to understand rivet sizing (Size is in 32nds of an
inch).

But you don't need to use cherry rivets you can also use aluminum "pop
rivets". You may need to space them a little closer but they will hold
unless your track is tremendously over stressed.

The SS machine screws suggested will also work. Just coat them with
any of the various sealants - 3M 5200, Sekaflex, maybe even house
silicon sealant. They may be a little stiff to remove but I've been
doing it for years with no corrosion and no problems in removal.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I kinds have an issue with screws in the mast.
Unless the wall thickness is at least 2x the diameter, there just isn't
a lot of thread in the mast.

Properly sized pull rivets would be a better choice for structural
reliability.

Maybe a big pain to install, but more secure...

FWIW...

Richard


The old rule of thumb was that the nut be one bolt diameter thick.
Admittedly that wasn't for aluminum nuts but my mast was put together
more then thirty years ago with stainless bolts and hasn't failed yet
:-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)