"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at and


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the
things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the
bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in
your
sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain


Was reading your trip and all .. this got me looking at marinas,
docks, municipal, private ..
I was disheartened by the cost. Even the public marinas cost
hundreds of dollars to tie up for a week, month.

And it just gets worse the farther south you travel. In the Florida Keys,
for example, some docks costs upwards of a thousand bucks a month for a
forty to fifty-footer. Unless you have money to burn you need not consider
staying at Marinas. They are a big rip-off and you are surrounded by idiots
should you tie up to one.

As I read this, I got thinking that the costs are out of reach for
most, at least my friends.

Unless your friends earn a quarter million and upwards per anum paying for
staying in a Marina is not only stupid but cost prohibitive for sure. Your
conclusion is correct. Your instincts are good. Even if you could afford the
bill you have to ask yourself if you can afford the snobbery of the pretend,
mortgaged to the hilt, crowd of lubbers who think a yacht will impress their
friends but rarely move them off the dock.

What and where do the less affluent tie up? If a boater, [ example = 30'
sailboat ]
is traveling along the Inland Waterway or needs to move about Florida ...
Where do they go to dock, anchor, moor .. so that the cost is
less.

There is a new law in Florida that states municipalities cannot restrict the
anchoring of liveaboard vessels in navigation any place other than in and
around municipal mooring fields. This means you can legally anchor most
anywhere as long as you don't plan to stay there forever. Some
municipalities still cling to their unconstitutional laws restricing or
prohibiting anchoring but they are being slapped down in court one by one.
Stuart Florida is a good example of this. They cited a sailor for being in
violation of their anchoring statutes but he ended up being somewhat more
affluent than they had thought and he hired a top-notch, female, maritime
lawyer who took them directly to Federal Court in a violation of civil
rights and due process case where Stuart, at the urging of their attorneys,
then made haste to dismiss the charges against the anchored boater and even
paid him thousands to not pursue it in the future.

http://www.soundingsonline.com/ME2/d...7F350DE&tier=4

As I've looked at the various marinas, and the photos of the huge private
yachts .. I keep thinking of the billions of dollars the US Government ..
[ my tax money ] is spending so these rich people can stay rich and keep
their huge boats at government built facilities that average folks can't
afford.

You sound like a freaking liberal, Janet. The rich aren't the enemy. The
government is the enemy. Never forget it. It's a good thing I wasn't your
husband. I sure wouldn't have become a drunk and slunk away. I'd have
slapped some sense into your warped noggin!


What are your thoughts on this ..

My thoughts are that you won't be worth a **** as a sailor unless and until
you rid yourself of your liberal thinking and get real about life. Stop
expecting somebody else to give you a free ride. May you own way in this
world and stop expecting others to do your work for you. Like the bikers say
to female hitchhikers, "Gas, grass or ass! Nobody rides for free."

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message
...
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at and


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the
things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the
bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in
your
sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain


Was reading your trip and all .. this got me looking at marinas,
docks, municipal, private ..
I was disheartened by the cost. Even the public marinas cost
hundreds of dollars to tie up for a week, month.

And it just gets worse the farther south you travel. In the Florida Keys,
for example, some docks costs upwards of a thousand bucks a month for a
forty to fifty-footer. Unless you have money to burn you need not consider
staying at Marinas. They are a big rip-off and you are surrounded by
idiots should you tie up to one.

As I read this, I got thinking that the costs are out of reach for
most, at least my friends.

Unless your friends earn a quarter million and upwards per anum paying for
staying in a Marina is not only stupid but cost prohibitive for sure. Your
conclusion is correct. Your instincts are good. Even if you could afford
the bill you have to ask yourself if you can afford the snobbery of the
pretend, mortgaged to the hilt, crowd of lubbers who think a yacht will
impress their friends but rarely move them off the dock.

What and where do the less affluent tie up? If a boater, [ example = 30'
sailboat ]
is traveling along the Inland Waterway or needs to move about Florida ...
Where do they go to dock, anchor, moor .. so that the cost is
less.

There is a new law in Florida that states municipalities cannot restrict
the anchoring of liveaboard vessels in navigation any place other than in
and around municipal mooring fields. This means you can legally anchor
most anywhere as long as you don't plan to stay there forever. Some
municipalities still cling to their unconstitutional laws restricing or
prohibiting anchoring but they are being slapped down in court one by one.
Stuart Florida is a good example of this. They cited a sailor for being in
violation of their anchoring statutes but he ended up being somewhat more
affluent than they had thought and he hired a top-notch, female, maritime
lawyer who took them directly to Federal Court in a violation of civil
rights and due process case where Stuart, at the urging of their
attorneys, then made haste to dismiss the charges against the anchored
boater and even paid him thousands to not pursue it in the future.

http://www.soundingsonline.com/ME2/d...7F350DE&tier=4

As I've looked at the various marinas, and the photos of the huge private
yachts .. I keep thinking of the billions of dollars the US Government
..
[ my tax money ] is spending so these rich people can stay rich and keep
their huge boats at government built facilities that average folks can't
afford.

You sound like a freaking liberal, Janet. The rich aren't the enemy. The
government is the enemy. Never forget it. It's a good thing I wasn't your
husband. I sure wouldn't have become a drunk and slunk away. I'd have
slapped some sense into your warped noggin!


What are your thoughts on this ..

My thoughts are that you won't be worth a **** as a sailor unless and
until you rid yourself of your liberal thinking and get real about life.
Stop expecting somebody else to give you a free ride. May you own way in
this world and stop expecting others to do your work for you. Like the
bikers say to female hitchhikers, "Gas, grass or ass! Nobody rides for
free."

Wilbur Hubbard


Hubbard ,, you may be a little rude, but at least you have something to
say.

I do have much to learn..

Was fun looking at photos of those nice marinas though. Some of the
big ones in Florida have pools, restaurants, et all... I must admit to
thinking that is very sweet.

Just starting the "look at" process. I've seen a few I don't like, which is
good, take them off the list. I also spotted a couple of trash heaps..


My friend told me one thing.. bigger is not better, but much more expensive.

A small, bluewater boat, at the right price will leave me some odd
thousands to
get the stuff.. New sails, windvane [maybe], ground tackle, electric
generation
by wind or sun.. on and on..

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:10:59 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:

A small, bluewater boat, at the right price will leave me some odd
thousands to
get the stuff.. New sails, windvane [maybe], ground tackle, electric
generation
by wind or sun.. on and on.


All well and good but make sure there is lots left over for
maintenance and living expenses, both of which will cost more than you
might expect.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:10:59 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:

A small, bluewater boat, at the right price will leave me some odd
thousands to
get the stuff.. New sails, windvane [maybe], ground tackle, electric
generation
by wind or sun.. on and on.


All well and good but make sure there is lots left over for
maintenance and living expenses, both of which will cost more than you
might expect.

Lots?? Depends upon how coddled she expects herself to be. 6-8000K per year
and she can live like a queen while cruising. But, no marinas except perhaps
a couple times a year for special occasions. She'll have to get used to
anchoring out. Maintenance, depending on the boat, could run more than that
if she pays somebody else to do her work. However, if she learns how and
does it herself (or trades favors - like doing brightwork - get your mind
outta the gutter) it might not be more than a couple of grand a year. Bottom
paint haulings are the most expensive routine maintenance. A gallon of
premium epoxy-based, scrubable, tropical bottom paint like Petit Trinidad SR
costs upwards of 400 bucks at most do-it-yourself yards. She'll probably
need two gallons to give a thirty-footer about four coats. But that can last
her three or four years if she doesn't mind getting in the water and
scrubbing every month or two after the first two years.

But, God help her if she has diesel troubles. Mechanics cost upwards of 200
bucks an hour for house calls and parts and filters are through the roof.
Diesel fuel got over five bucks a gallon this summer and I don't expect the
lower prices seen now to last much longer.

She should look into the exploits of one Rebecca Burg. Who cruises Florida
and the Bahamas on a similar-sized boat. Rebecca is my kind of woman. Just
look at the color of her fine Bayfield.

http://www.artoffshore.com/sailingpage.html

And, she's a hottie: swoon

http://www.artoffshore.com/images/60...stAtAnchor.jpg

But, she's got a little Skippy in her:

http://www.artoffshore.com/images/480_WEBagroundA.jpg

But, unlike Skippy, she knows how to anchor to stay put in a storm:

http://www.artoffshore.com/images/480_ScaryStorm.jpg

So, as you can see, Janet, women can cruise single-handed just fine.

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

But, God help her if she has diesel troubles. Mechanics cost upwards of 200
bucks an hour for house calls and parts and filters are through the roof.
Diesel fuel got over five bucks a gallon this summer and I don't expect the
lower prices seen now to last much longer.

There is mothing *magic* about working on a small sailboat diesel. All
you need is tools that fit, some basic supplies, the service manual and
basic knowlege of wrenching on the innards of small engines.

For the OP:- The parts you can have delivered but if there is a service
centre near your home port, its worth building up a face to face
relationship with them so you can ask them when you need advice. Its
really helpfull if you have a tame mechanic you trust who's willing to
keep an eye on what you are doing the first time you tackle a job.
Stuff like skimming heads, regrinding crankshafts and pressing in
bearings you farm out to a non-marine auto engineering shop. You *will*
get your hands dirty. Wont be long before you're up to changing an
exhaust valve on passage.

There's not much to be done about the cost of fuel though except sail
more and motor less. The flip side of that is you've got several grand
of sailcloth up the stick with an expected lifespan of about ten years
if looked after but if you leave them flapping or otherwise abuse them
you'll take years off their life so sometime it's cheaper to motor (and
cheapest to anchor and wait for a fair wind).