On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:11:48 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
Another thread touched on this, and it may deserve more than it got.
It was suggested that one can do their own survey.
Let's eliminate boat newbies. They need a surveyor.
I always buy used cars. I never take them to a mechanic, because I
know my used cars. I trust myself. I never burned myself once I knew
used cars. When I was inexperienced I bought a couple lemons.
That's why I learned all about used cars.
I don't expect others to follow my path with cars.

Definitely different for boat ownership. For example, if you desire
insurance, you'll likely need a survey.

But a sailor is different than a typical car driver.

Absolutely.

His life relies on his transport. His boat.

Absolutely, up to a point. Rigging for example... I can guess, but I don't
have enough experience to know for certain, especially if you don't know
when it was done last.

An experienced sailor should know how to survey a boat himself -
maybe. Since I don't have a boat yet, I sure can't speak as an
experienced sailor.
But from what I've read about what surveyors do, and from what I've
gleaned from the experienced sailors here, it seems there are many
writing here that know more about glass, gear, electrics, rigging, and
rot than the typical surveyor.
Many here may be somewhat weak on engines, but does the surveyor
typically do a compression test and oil analysis?

No, but you can hire a diesel mechanic to do an engine survey. Typically,
this isn't done, unless the engines are big/expensive. The key items can be
checked by anyone... e.g., the overall look/feel/vibration (or lack) when
running, the texture, smell, look of the oil (analysis is cheap - $30). Does
it smoke when you start or smoke under load? Don't let the owner tell you
"it's nothing."

Does he check all engine linkages?

All? In a limited, accessible way, sure. He's not going to climb into the
engine compartment, to look at the connection to the trans. He'll try the
gears and give you his impression.

Does he reveal electric wiring or test electronics that you can't do.

Definitely will/should comment on the electrics and electronics. Probably
won't test harness anything. Either it appears to work or it doesn't... even
to the point of saying the fuse it blown.. how come?

Does he point out a sail tear you can't see?

Perhaps. Mine looked at the jibs without unfolding them, and he saw the main
up.

Does he run his hand over cable for frays where you can't or see rust
that you can't see?

Standing rigging... yes. Other cables... doubtful.

Tell you something about rope you don't know?

If you ask.

Does he do anything WON'T do before you cast off?

Not sure what you're asking... usually, they don't like to give an overall
opinion during or right after the survey when you and the owner are standing
there. They don't want a confrontation. Mine did... told me, "Buy this boat.
I don't usually say this." The owner didn't hear him, so I went over and
told him what he said. :-)

Is it seeing loose tabs, hull voids, core rot?

Definitely going to comment on what he finds. Loose tabs?

Does he give you a guarantee/warrantee on the inspection?

No guarantee/warranty... no way.

Or is it mostly a second-opinion/peace-of-mind feel you get?

Definitely, but it's from someone who sees hundreds of boats a year. If
you're going to buy a boat, you need to sail a couple of dozen before you
can get a feel for what works for you. You also get USCG requirements
confirmation, unsafe situations that are not necessarily obvious... after
all, you're fairly motivated to buy it at this point. It's nice to have
something in your face that you might otherwise discount.

The bank sent an "appraiser inspector" to examine my house as part
of the mortgage requirements some years ago. The guy couldn't tell
me anything new that I didn't know from my own inspection, and missed
plenty I saw. Cost the bank a few hundred for that - passed along to
me no doubt.

Yeah, the big deal with our houses appraiser was that he found the
termite/dryrot/whatever damage that we already knew about, since it was
disclosed in all instances. Then, he did a market analysis (surveyor does
this also), which we argued with a couple of times and got it changed. IMHO
the surveyor was right on the money every time I used one.

Like to hear from the experienced boat owners here.
Might learn something.

The survey isn't that expensive... I paid between $10 and $14 per linear
foot. Most surveyors have a minimum, so it's usually not worth it for
dinghy.

If you'd like to see my last survey, I'd be happy to email you one.

Thanks, that's enlightening. I'd like to see a real survey, and my
address is real. I just check it occasionally.
Or you might prefer to post it on the RBC website, maybe without the
surveyor's name. Others might be interested in seeing it, and
comparing it to what they've seen/paid for. Your call.
If you send it to me I'll keep it private.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:11:48 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
Another thread touched on this, and it may deserve more than it got.
It was suggested that one can do their own survey.
Let's eliminate boat newbies. They need a surveyor.
I always buy used cars. I never take them to a mechanic, because I
know my used cars. I trust myself. I never burned myself once I knew
used cars. When I was inexperienced I bought a couple lemons.
That's why I learned all about used cars.
I don't expect others to follow my path with cars.

Definitely different for boat ownership. For example, if you desire
insurance, you'll likely need a survey.

But a sailor is different than a typical car driver.

Absolutely.

His life relies on his transport. His boat.

Absolutely, up to a point. Rigging for example... I can guess, but I don't
have enough experience to know for certain, especially if you don't know
when it was done last.

An experienced sailor should know how to survey a boat himself -
maybe. Since I don't have a boat yet, I sure can't speak as an
experienced sailor.
But from what I've read about what surveyors do, and from what I've
gleaned from the experienced sailors here, it seems there are many
writing here that know more about glass, gear, electrics, rigging, and
rot than the typical surveyor.
Many here may be somewhat weak on engines, but does the surveyor
typically do a compression test and oil analysis?

No, but you can hire a diesel mechanic to do an engine survey. Typically,
this isn't done, unless the engines are big/expensive. The key items can
be
checked by anyone... e.g., the overall look/feel/vibration (or lack) when
running, the texture, smell, look of the oil (analysis is cheap - $30).
Does
it smoke when you start or smoke under load? Don't let the owner tell you
"it's nothing."

Does he check all engine linkages?

All? In a limited, accessible way, sure. He's not going to climb into the
engine compartment, to look at the connection to the trans. He'll try the
gears and give you his impression.

Does he reveal electric wiring or test electronics that you can't do.

Definitely will/should comment on the electrics and electronics. Probably
won't test harness anything. Either it appears to work or it doesn't...
even
to the point of saying the fuse it blown.. how come?

Does he point out a sail tear you can't see?

Perhaps. Mine looked at the jibs without unfolding them, and he saw the
main
up.

Does he run his hand over cable for frays where you can't or see rust
that you can't see?

Standing rigging... yes. Other cables... doubtful.

Tell you something about rope you don't know?

If you ask.

Does he do anything WON'T do before you cast off?

Not sure what you're asking... usually, they don't like to give an overall
opinion during or right after the survey when you and the owner are
standing
there. They don't want a confrontation. Mine did... told me, "Buy this
boat.
I don't usually say this." The owner didn't hear him, so I went over and
told him what he said. :-)

Is it seeing loose tabs, hull voids, core rot?

Definitely going to comment on what he finds. Loose tabs?

Does he give you a guarantee/warrantee on the inspection?

No guarantee/warranty... no way.

Or is it mostly a second-opinion/peace-of-mind feel you get?

Definitely, but it's from someone who sees hundreds of boats a year. If
you're going to buy a boat, you need to sail a couple of dozen before you
can get a feel for what works for you. You also get USCG requirements
confirmation, unsafe situations that are not necessarily obvious... after
all, you're fairly motivated to buy it at this point. It's nice to have
something in your face that you might otherwise discount.

The bank sent an "appraiser inspector" to examine my house as part
of the mortgage requirements some years ago. The guy couldn't tell
me anything new that I didn't know from my own inspection, and missed
plenty I saw. Cost the bank a few hundred for that - passed along to
me no doubt.

Yeah, the big deal with our houses appraiser was that he found the
termite/dryrot/whatever damage that we already knew about, since it was
disclosed in all instances. Then, he did a market analysis (surveyor does
this also), which we argued with a couple of times and got it changed.
IMHO
the surveyor was right on the money every time I used one.

Like to hear from the experienced boat owners here.
Might learn something.

The survey isn't that expensive... I paid between $10 and $14 per linear
foot. Most surveyors have a minimum, so it's usually not worth it for
dinghy.

If you'd like to see my last survey, I'd be happy to email you one.

Thanks, that's enlightening. I'd like to see a real survey, and my
address is real. I just check it occasionally.
Or you might prefer to post it on the RBC website, maybe without the
surveyor's name. Others might be interested in seeing it, and
comparing it to what they've seen/paid for. Your call.
If you send it to me I'll keep it private.

--Vic


Actually, it's on my photo website. Can't imagine why the surveyor would
mind. He did a wonderful job.

http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW....caliburSurvey#

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com