teak deck repairs
 

I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can
I find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or
books regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines,
caulking, glueing and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

In short, there are no reliable sources that I have found. There can be a
myriad of opinions on this subject and there are a myriad of wives tales.
Your difficulty is determining what is true and applicable in YOUR case and
what is not. However, there are certain guidlines that should always be
observed. In order to give advise, you must be much more explicit. The
following information would be very helpful:
Describe the current deck construction.
What is the hull material?
What is the observed faults with the deck now?
How old is the deck?
How thick is the teak planking?
How wide are the planks?
What caulking material has been used?

Come back with those answers and we can have a better discussion.
Steve


"Daniele Fua" wrote in message
...
I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can I
find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or books
regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines, caulking, glueing
and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:01:29 +0100, Daniele Fua
wrote:

I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can
I find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or
books regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines,
caulking, glueing and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel

If you can locate back copies of Practical Boat Owner, a British
magazine, there have been several articles over the years of renewing
teak decks.

You can also research the Sika (the people that make Sikaflex) website
as they make adhesives and caulking especially for repairing/building
teak decks and have (I believe) some pretty explicate instructions
there.

In reference to types of teak, about all teak now comes from either
Burma or Cambodia as there has been no legal teak cut in Thailand for
years.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:53:03 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

In short, there are no reliable sources that I have found. There can be a
myriad of opinions on this subject and there are a myriad of wives tales.
Your difficulty is determining what is true and applicable in YOUR case and
what is not. However, there are certain guidlines that should always be
observed. In order to give advise, you must be much more explicit. The
following information would be very helpful:
Describe the current deck construction.
What is the hull material?
What is the observed faults with the deck now?
How old is the deck?
How thick is the teak planking?
How wide are the planks?
What caulking material has been used?

Come back with those answers and we can have a better discussion.
Steve


"Daniele Fua" wrote in message
t...
I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can I
find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or books
regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines, caulking, glueing
and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel


Actually, as I said in another post, there is information about how to
renew/replace teak decks both laid decks and overlays. Practical Boat
Owner, for one, has had several articles over the years.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

The Grand Banks Owners website has had a number of threads over the past
several years on this topic although, of course, they are specific to GBs.
there is quite a bit of general information there, however.
Sandy

"Daniele Fua" wrote in message
...
I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can I
find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or books
regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines, caulking, glueing
and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

Bruce,
I have read those article as well as others over the fullnest of time and in
every case that repair is touted as the best possible in the history of
mankind, but in every case there is no information on the success of that
same repair after a few years. This is the case I have made in my first
reply. Every repair is different and there are a myiad of products out there
to be used. Some are very good sometimes, under certain circumstances, but
rarely is any product good everywhere all the time. The ultimate test is
time. Every owner thinking of making a teak repair must search out those
repairs most like the one he is contemplating AFTER a few years of service.
Only then will he know the answers to his questions are viable. There is
just far too much BS advise out there for free for my liking. Been there and
been bit.
Steve

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:01:29 +0100, Daniele Fua
wrote:

I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can
I find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or
books regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines,
caulking, glueing and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel

If you can locate back copies of Practical Boat Owner, a British
magazine, there have been several articles over the years of renewing
teak decks.

You can also research the Sika (the people that make Sikaflex) website
as they make adhesives and caulking especially for repairing/building
teak decks and have (I believe) some pretty explicate instructions
there.

In reference to types of teak, about all teak now comes from either
Burma or Cambodia as there has been no legal teak cut in Thailand for
years.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:25:45 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Bruce,
I have read those article as well as others over the fullnest of time and in
every case that repair is touted as the best possible in the history of
mankind, but in every case there is no information on the success of that
same repair after a few years. This is the case I have made in my first
reply. Every repair is different and there are a myiad of products out there
to be used. Some are very good sometimes, under certain circumstances, but
rarely is any product good everywhere all the time. The ultimate test is
time. Every owner thinking of making a teak repair must search out those
repairs most like the one he is contemplating AFTER a few years of service.
Only then will he know the answers to his questions are viable. There is
just far too much BS advise out there for free for my liking. Been there and
been bit.
Steve

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:01:29 +0100, Daniele Fua
wrote:

I would like to make some repairs to the teak deck of my boat. Where can
I find some literature on the subject? I mean reliable web pages or
books regarding types and aging of teak wood, cutting, splines,
caulking, glueing and other technicalities alike.
Thank you very much
Daniel

If you can locate back copies of Practical Boat Owner, a British
magazine, there have been several articles over the years of renewing
teak decks.

You can also research the Sika (the people that make Sikaflex) website
as they make adhesives and caulking especially for repairing/building
teak decks and have (I believe) some pretty explicate instructions
there.

In reference to types of teak, about all teak now comes from either
Burma or Cambodia as there has been no legal teak cut in Thailand for
years.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)



First of all, I am assuming that you are talking about the teak
overlay on a fiberglass boat. NOT a solid laid teak deck on a wooden
boat.

I also noticed that you used the word "repair". I have been assuming
that you mean "replace" as I know of no good method of repairing a
teak on a fiberglass boat. In fact, if your deck is installed using
screws and it is in bad enough shape that you are thinking "repair" it
really needs removing and a good investigation made to be sure that
the deck structure is still solid.

If you elect to glue the teak down (and you are stupid not to glue it)
then there are multitudes of decks to look at. The people that I know
who are in the business (both in Australia and Thailand) use Sikaflex
adhesive and caulking and follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

The only decks I personally know of that had troubles were (1) an
Australian laid deck on a Super yacht using 3M 5200 (that may have
been past its "use by" date) - they flew a crew from Cairns to Phuket
to re-lay it, and (2) a deck laid by a Thai group that had never done
it before - they didn't do a good job in clamping and had a lot of
loose strips to fix.

Basically it is a pretty simple task, you are gluing strips of wood
down on the deck. The biggest problem is that you are going to have to
edge set the strips. i.e., bend them sideways. You need to devise a
good strong clamping system to hold the strips tightly until the
adhesive cures (a day or so, at least) which, depending on your boat
may not be easy.

Once you have the strips glued down you caulk the grooves and when
that is cured sand the whole thing smooth.

Here, and teak is not cheap here, the thinnest strips they will use is
6 mm (about 1/4") and the carpenters prefer to use (8mm - 3/8") or
even 12 mm (1/2"). I have seen articles in British books where they
cut a step on the edge of each strip to take the caulking but they
don't do that here. After all it is only 6 mm. they use spacers to be
sure that the gap between the teak strips is even and just caulk it.

Basically it is just a pretty surface, it contributes no strength.

Question: Have you contacted Sika for their recommendations?

For information only: the cost in Phuket, Thailand, using Burmese
teak, for 1/4" - 6mm teak deck is between 10,000 baht (US$ 333) and
12,000 baht ( US$ 400) baht a square metres.

I have a certain amount of experience in this kind of repair (I just
finished re-coring the deck on a 35 ft. power boat) and a Thai Boat
Carpenter who does quite a bit of work for me specializes in teak
decks so I can probably give you some pointers.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

Thank you very much for your interest. I try to reply your questions:

Describe the current deck construction.
It was made in 1978, probably with very high standards (Nautor's,
Finland), fastened with screws and, I think, probably glued.
What is the hull material?
Fiberglass
What is the observed faults with the deck now?
Several of the screws stick out of the surface, few planks are not well
fixed to the deck and water seeps under, the caulking is missing in
several parts. The worst part are amidship around the chainplates.
Overall I believe that the deck should be redone entirely sooner or
later but I believe also that with some work I could wait, say, 3-4
years before a major work and a major investment.
How thick is the teak planking?
It is quite thick: probably around 12-14mm
How wide are the planks?
around 43mm
What caulking material has been used?
I don't know

If you are interested, please look at the pictures posted in this page
http://g24met.phys.uniroma1.it/cache

Regards
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:50:14 +0100, Daniele Fua
wrote:

Thank you very much for your interest. I try to reply your questions:

Describe the current deck construction.
It was made in 1978, probably with very high standards (Nautor's,
Finland), fastened with screws and, I think, probably glued.
What is the hull material?
Fiberglass
What is the observed faults with the deck now?
Several of the screws stick out of the surface, few planks are not well
fixed to the deck and water seeps under, the caulking is missing in
several parts. The worst part are amidship around the chainplates.
Overall I believe that the deck should be redone entirely sooner or
later but I believe also that with some work I could wait, say, 3-4
years before a major work and a major investment.
How thick is the teak planking?
It is quite thick: probably around 12-14mm
How wide are the planks?
around 43mm
What caulking material has been used?
I don't know

If you are interested, please look at the pictures posted in this page
http://g24met.phys.uniroma1.it/cache

Regards
Daniel

Your real task is to prevent deterioration of the structural deck. The
teak is just a cosmetic addition and contributes little but looks to
the boat. Teak isn't even particularly "non skid" when compared to
other surfaces.

Basically, any deck overlay that is fastened with screws will
eventually leak into the deck core and cause rot. Now, this is not a
overnight process and even if some moisture gets into the core it
doesn't cause instantaneous rot but it is not something you want to
happen.

If you have any areas where the plugs covering the screw heads are
missing or the caulking is missing then certainly those areas are
leaking. In addition it probably means that the overlay is getting
thin enough that more of the plugs are going to come out from time to
time.

I suggest that you try to locate a short section of decking, remove
all the screws and cut/scrape out the caulking and try to lift one
piece of the overlay. I suspect, from the screws, that you will find
that it IS NOT glued down but if it is glued down then you can remove
the screws, inject thickened epoxy to make a "epoxy nail" and insert a
new plug to fill the screw hole. then scrape out all suspect caulking
and recaulk.

If however, the strips ARE NOT glued down then you will need to remove
all the screws, remove the teak, plug all the holes in the deck, check
for soft spots in the deck, repair any found, replace the original
strips using an adhesive, plug the screw holes in the teak with epoxy
and a teak plug, recaulk and sand.

Or, you can decide to remove the teak, sand the fiberglass deck
smooth, plug the holes and possibly put a layer of glass cloth over
the deck, fair and paint.

In any case you are looking at a major project and, unless you do all
the work yourself, substantial costs.

The alternative is to do a cheap and dirty job of it by removing any
screws that have missing plugs, drill the hole in the teak a tiny bit
deeper, reset the screw with epoxy and replug the screw hole. Then
remove any defective caulking and recaulk and sand.

This is less work then doing the job correctly but will not correct
the problem, just postpone it. However, if you were planning on
selling the boat you might decide in favor of this scheme.

But, in any case, in my opinion you need to do something about the
deck fairly soon, say this year, to avoid further troubles.

I couldn't make out what type of boat you have but if it is a Nauticat
then it is pretty much a classic boat and assuming that the deck is
still structurally sound then it should be worth saving.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:00:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:50:14 +0100, Daniele Fua wrote:

Thank you very much for your interest. I try to reply your questions:

Describe the current deck construction.
It was made in 1978, probably with very high standards (Nautor's,
Finland), fastened with screws and, I think, probably glued.
What is the hull material?
Fiberglass
What is the observed faults with the deck now?
Several of the screws stick out of the surface, few planks are not well
fixed to the deck and water seeps under, the caulking is missing in
several parts. The worst part are amidship around the chainplates.
Overall I believe that the deck should be redone entirely sooner or
later but I believe also that with some work I could wait, say, 3-4
years before a major work and a major investment.
How thick is the teak planking?
It is quite thick: probably around 12-14mm
How wide are the planks?
around 43mm
What caulking material has been used?
I don't know

If you are interested, please look at the pictures posted in this page
http://g24met.phys.uniroma1.it/cache

Regards
Daniel

Have you considered removing the teak, and leaving it off? Many people do that
when they get to where it sounds as if you are now.


This was what I did with the 35 ft. motor boat I'm rebuilding and I
think it is the smartest thing to do. But some people like teak.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
then you can remove
the screws, inject thickened epoxy to make a "epoxy nail" and insert a
new plug to fill the screw hole.

I have been removing suspect screws, testing the hole with a syringe to
see if it has any water in it or will draw or accept air. Then inject
those with slightly thickened west epoxy.

I then re drill and install the same sized fastener that the rest of the
deck has. Then reinstall a new plug.

I put some caulking on the screws when I install them.

Is an epoxy "nail" good enough?

I watched a guy with a similar Swan to the original poster's buy "the
next length" screws to replace all his deck screws. I think this was a
mistake.

teak deck repairs
 

Bruce in Bangkok ha scritto:
Your real task is to prevent deterioration of the structural deck. The
teak is just a cosmetic addition and contributes little but looks to
the boat. Teak isn't even particularly "non skid" when compared to
other surfaces.

Basically, any deck overlay that is fastened with screws will
eventually leak into the deck core and cause rot. Now, this is not a
overnight process and even if some moisture gets into the core it
doesn't cause instantaneous rot but it is not something you want to
happen.

If you have any areas where the plugs covering the screw heads are
missing or the caulking is missing then certainly those areas are
leaking. In addition it probably means that the overlay is getting
thin enough that more of the plugs are going to come out from time to
time.

I suggest that you try to locate a short section of decking, remove
all the screws and cut/scrape out the caulking and try to lift one
piece of the overlay. I suspect, from the screws, that you will find
that it IS NOT glued down but if it is glued down then you can remove
the screws, inject thickened epoxy to make a "epoxy nail" and insert a
new plug to fill the screw hole. then scrape out all suspect caulking
and recaulk.

If however, the strips ARE NOT glued down then you will need to remove
all the screws, remove the teak, plug all the holes in the deck, check
for soft spots in the deck, repair any found, replace the original
strips using an adhesive, plug the screw holes in the teak with epoxy
and a teak plug, recaulk and sand.

I have already considered, as some of you suggest, not to use teak
anymore but my conclusion was: no, I agree that "teak=leak=money..." but
I will keep up with the original design. I realize it is a major work
and I will enjoy doing it myself as far as I can.
The boat is not a Nauticat. She was designed by Sparkman & Stevens and
built in Finland under their strict control on construction standards.

There are few questions you may help answering:
1) repairing or re-decking completely would you recommend rabbeting the
planks in order to make a caulk channel from the upper surface down to
the bottom of the rabbet (like now) or no rabbet at all but just a space
filled with caulking all the way from the surface to the underlying f.g.
deck?
2) better not using screws anymore?
3) what kind of glue between planks and deck, possibly fast setting?
4) tools. I foresee remaking few planks from scratch and I may be
working in the open, maybe just under a tentlike roof. Besides all
obvious wood tools I have a circular saw, a router and a jig saw. Would
you recommend a small band saw or a miter saw for example? I can use
hand planer but would you recommend an electric planer?
This is the actual input I am asking from you, guys: technicalities you
may know better than me.

Regards
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

Jim ha scritto:

I watched a guy with a similar Swan to the original poster's buy "the
next length" screws to replace all his deck screws. I think this was a
mistake.

I think it too. The main problem is the head of the screw coming out as
the plug is thinned by sanding. On the other hand deepening the
countersink will eventually go all the way through. The best is, I
believe, avoiding screw altogether and gluing effectively.

Regards
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

I am about 1/3 of the way through laying the veneer teak on my side decks.
It is back breaking work. I have to stop every week or so and work on
something else to let my knees and back recover some. I am using 1/4 x 1
3/4 strips set in epoxy tinted with (nasty) graphite. Holding the strips
down with #10 hex head self tapping screws with waxed fender washers between
planks. Most used tools so far are a miter saw set up on the cabin top, 18V
drill for driving a gazillion screws, 4 ratcheting strap clamps, a Japanese
pull saw and a low angle block plane.

Made up a couple of practice panels to try various caulks. Boat life works
great but a hassle to mix and load in cartridges. Also unbelievably messy
with a magnetic attraction to clean white surfaces second only to black
5200. Teak Deck Systems TDS440 in 20oz sausages in a little more expensive
but much easier to use. Not sure about the service live of one part caulks
though.

One problem so far is that while I can scrape most of the squeeze out out of
the grooves I can't get under the washers so there is always a mound of hard
epoxy to scrape out once it sets up. Had to grind a 1/4" chisel down to
3/16 and heat and bend it so I can get in and chip it out. Not real hard
but I have to do it hundreds of times and then fill each hole right away as
it is impossible to spot them all if I don't.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Daniele Fua" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Bangkok ha scritto:
Your real task is to prevent deterioration of the structural deck. The
teak is just a cosmetic addition and contributes little but looks to
the boat. Teak isn't even particularly "non skid" when compared to
other surfaces.

Basically, any deck overlay that is fastened with screws will
eventually leak into the deck core and cause rot. Now, this is not a
overnight process and even if some moisture gets into the core it
doesn't cause instantaneous rot but it is not something you want to
happen.

If you have any areas where the plugs covering the screw heads are
missing or the caulking is missing then certainly those areas are
leaking. In addition it probably means that the overlay is getting
thin enough that more of the plugs are going to come out from time to
time.

I suggest that you try to locate a short section of decking, remove
all the screws and cut/scrape out the caulking and try to lift one
piece of the overlay. I suspect, from the screws, that you will find
that it IS NOT glued down but if it is glued down then you can remove
the screws, inject thickened epoxy to make a "epoxy nail" and insert a
new plug to fill the screw hole. then scrape out all suspect caulking
and recaulk.

If however, the strips ARE NOT glued down then you will need to remove
all the screws, remove the teak, plug all the holes in the deck, check
for soft spots in the deck, repair any found, replace the original
strips using an adhesive, plug the screw holes in the teak with epoxy
and a teak plug, recaulk and sand.

I have already considered, as some of you suggest, not to use teak anymore
but my conclusion was: no, I agree that "teak=leak=money..." but I will
keep up with the original design. I realize it is a major work and I will
enjoy doing it myself as far as I can.
The boat is not a Nauticat. She was designed by Sparkman & Stevens and
built in Finland under their strict control on construction standards.

There are few questions you may help answering:
1) repairing or re-decking completely would you recommend rabbeting the
planks in order to make a caulk channel from the upper surface down to the
bottom of the rabbet (like now) or no rabbet at all but just a space
filled with caulking all the way from the surface to the underlying f.g.
deck?
2) better not using screws anymore?
3) what kind of glue between planks and deck, possibly fast setting?
4) tools. I foresee remaking few planks from scratch and I may be working
in the open, maybe just under a tentlike roof. Besides all obvious wood
tools I have a circular saw, a router and a jig saw. Would you recommend
a small band saw or a miter saw for example? I can use hand planer but
would you recommend an electric planer?
This is the actual input I am asking from you, guys: technicalities you
may know better than me.

Regards
Daniel

teak deck repairs
 

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:07:44 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:01:51 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:00:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:50:14 +0100, Daniele Fua wrote:

Thank you very much for your interest. I try to reply your questions:

Describe the current deck construction.
It was made in 1978, probably with very high standards (Nautor's,
Finland), fastened with screws and, I think, probably glued.
What is the hull material?
Fiberglass
What is the observed faults with the deck now?
Several of the screws stick out of the surface, few planks are not well
fixed to the deck and water seeps under, the caulking is missing in
several parts. The worst part are amidship around the chainplates.
Overall I believe that the deck should be redone entirely sooner or
later but I believe also that with some work I could wait, say, 3-4
years before a major work and a major investment.
How thick is the teak planking?
It is quite thick: probably around 12-14mm
How wide are the planks?
around 43mm
What caulking material has been used?
I don't know

If you are interested, please look at the pictures posted in this page
http://g24met.phys.uniroma1.it/cache

Regards
Daniel

Have you considered removing the teak, and leaving it off? Many people do that
when they get to where it sounds as if you are now.


This was what I did with the 35 ft. motor boat I'm rebuilding and I
think it is the smartest thing to do. But some people like teak.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Did you mean to write: "But some people like leak"? :')


A teaky leaky -- a leaky teaky -- a.........

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

teak deck repairs
 

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:35:53 -0700, Jim wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
then you can remove
the screws, inject thickened epoxy to make a "epoxy nail" and insert a
new plug to fill the screw hole.

I have been removing suspect screws, testing the hole with a syringe to
see if it has any water in it or will draw or accept air. Then inject
those with slightly thickened west epoxy.

I then re drill and install the same sized fastener that the rest of the
deck has. Then reinstall a new plug.

I put some caulking on the screws when I install them.

Is an epoxy "nail" good enough?

I watched a guy with a similar Swan to the original poster's buy "the
next length" screws to replace all his deck screws. I think this was a
mistake.

Your whole problem is to keep water out of the deck core! that should
be your main consideration. I can't say that enough times.

The problem with teak overlays is that they are usually only about
1/4" (6mm) thick. So if you drill and countersink for a screw there is
very little left to hold a plug. so the plugs come out.

The next think I have noticed is that, in most cases, where a screwed
overlay is installed there appeared to be no real effort to waterproof
the job so any deterioration causes water to leak under the teak and
eventually seep around the screws into the deck core. Chain plates,
stanchions and other deck mounted hardware are usually equally at
fault.

I doubt that "testing a hole with a syringe for water will tell you
anything. I just repaired a section of deck on a sail boat where the
Jib sheet tracks were bolted down without sealing and the plywood core
was a black semi solid - totally rotted. But there was no free water
and when you squeezed a handful it was damp but didn;t drip.

Unless your teak is glued down and if you really want to make a proper
repair then I would remove it, section by section. Fill all the screw
holes in the deck with thickened epoxy. Sand it smooth and then
replace the section using an adhesive to hold it to the deck. then
fill the hole in the teak strip with epoxy and a teak plug.

To hold the strips while the adhesive is drying you can use screws
down through the gap between two strips with a large washer under the
head and a plastic gasket under the washer to keep it from sticking.
If I were using epoxy for an adhesive I'd be sure to wax the screws
with mold release. Once the adhesive has hardened take out the screws
and if you have waxed them re-drill the hole, to clean it of mold
release, and then fill it with thickened epoxy.

By the way, if you are using epoxy then be sure to get a brand that
will stick to wet wood.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)