July 19th - Doin' the Charleston


We pulled into the Charleston area early in the morning after an
absolutely
marvelous sail. Lydia had gone down to sleep after letting me sleep
longer
than the expected midnight change, and in return, I kept at it until
past
dawn and our entrance. That sleep deprivation would come back to
haunt me
later, as the out of sequence posting demonstrated a few days ago.

We got Larry on the phone and were directed to a special entrance we'd
missed both when looking at the electronic and paper charts of the
area. We
were also directed to the City Marina as necessary for us to
accomplish what
might be refrigeration repair (more difficult for a service person to
dinghy
out), electrical troubleshooting, instrument repairs and the like. As
much
as it's against my religion and our budget, we bit the bullet and
signed up
for the Franklin plus daily fees to be at the (very VERY long dock -
the
MegaDock, where the big guys park) end of the outside floating dock.

Larry had his hand-held VHF radio with him and was able to hear our
traffic
with the control for docking and thus was waiting for us when we
landed. We
quickly connected to shore power and commenced to troubleshooting
while
Lydia went off to discover who she'd chat up in THIS marina (if you
let her
off the boat, she's gone for hours, as there isn't anyone she meets
who
doesn't turn into a conversation, some of which involve geneology, let
alone
hail-fellow-well-met).

We quickly determined that we weren't getting nearly enough power to
the
batteries which appeared to be OK, but very low. Larry's first
supposition
was that the batteries were dead, but futher digging showed that the
charger
wasn't putting out anything like the 70 amps it was rated for. Out
come the
manuals and to cut it short, the charger and its controller were
fried,
literally (see gallery pix). So, the first order of business, as long
as
we're on someone else' (expensive - a surcharge of $6 per day)
electricity,
we need to get something to accelerate the charging, so it's off to
West
Marine. New charger installed, we're topping up the batteries.

To do our tests, we've turned on everything we can find to generate
lots of
load. If our charger is up to the task, it should shoulder all the
load and
have some left over. However, as we put all that we can find into
the
system's
load, it turns out that it's high enough to take all the charger has
to
offer. As it's a relatively small charger, that's not really
surprising -
we have lots of time when connected to regular 110V power, so it's not
worrying. However...

Then, while it's working, we check the alternator (the busy thing on
the
engine which is supposed to not only supply the electrical needs while
operating, but have lots left over to bring the battery up to cover
the
non-running times' consumption. We'd assumed we had high output
alternators
based on the markings on at least one of our spares. NOT! Just like
the
case marking sez, they're suitable for charging the starting battery,
and
nothing else. No wonder we've got low power. We've been assuming all
along
that our alternator was not only keeping up with the running load, but
could
easily cover other loads (like this computer!) as well. Instead,
we've been
steadily sucking out the supply, rendering us nearly bankrupt in power
terms. (You look at a boat's electrical system like income and
spending,
with the bank - except it can't be filled beyond a certain point -
supplying
the extra, such as drawing from your savings. We were making far less
than
we were spending, and our "bank account" - the battery bank - was
nearly
empty...)

It does its thing overnight - so, now it's the 20th. More working in
the
engine room. As it's cooled down a bit, I go in with one of the two
spare
alternators I have, and change it out, on the thought that perhaps the
one
which has been on the engine since we bought it was somehow
defective. Ever
hopeful, perhaps this one is 70 amps? Nope. Same basic output. If
we
load up everything possible at the same time, it's more than the
alternator
can supply, let alone fill the battery with the excess.

All this alternator testing makes for a very hot engine compartment,
and
heats the rest of the boat. Our marvelous extraction fans do a great
job of
pulling the hot air out of the engine room, but are awfully hungry for
electricity to feed them. As we're trying desperately to charge up
the
batteries, that's not a good thing. So, I continue to work on in the
heat.
Making it worse, I got only a few hours of sleep last night, as we
were up
until the wee hours. Tonight's no different - I was so out of it from
the
heat and lack of sleep that I posted our third day of the trip before
the
second!

So, we'll continue this saga at a later time. In the meantime, it's
been
great to actually meet the guy with whom we've been corresponding,
skyping
(internet telephone, with pictures, sometimes, even), phoning and
otherwise
picking his brain. Later, we'll do some basic touring, but save the
high
activity levels for our return trip when we're not trying to get to
NYC.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On Jul 23, 8:32 am, Skip Gundlach wrote:
July 19th -

I go in with one of the two
spare
alternators I have, and change it out, on the thought that perhaps
the
one
which has been on the engine since we bought it was somehow
defective. Ever
hopeful, perhaps this one is 70 amps? Nope. Same basic output. If
we
load up everything possible at the same time, it's more than the
alternator
can supply, let alone fill the battery with the excess.



Skip............. just how many amps do you use in a day?!?!!!!?

Bob

On Jul 23, 12:59 pm, Bob wrote:
On Jul 23, 8:32 am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

July 19th -
I go in with one of the two

spare
alternators I have, and change it out, on the thought that perhaps
the
one
which has been on the engine since we bought it was somehow
defective. Ever
hopeful, perhaps this one is 70 amps? Nope. Same basic output. If
we
load up everything possible at the same time, it's more than the
alternator

can supply, let alone fill the battery with the excess.

Skip............. just how many amps do you use in a day?!?!!!!?

Bob

Hi, Bob,

We don't yet know. We're gong to do an energy audit, prolly tomorrow,
to see just exactly how much each item uses.

However, the root of the problem was twofold. We didn't have an
effective shore power charger, for some extended period of time (we
don't know how long, as it was just discovered). That meant that we
were being profligate with our 12V ashore and at the dock, and running
our entire, or a major part of the, load, on just the solar and wind.
At the dock and at the stands, that was pretty low as compared to
being out in the briny. The second problem was that, as we were
motoring for most of this trip, and assuming we had plenty of amps to
use pretty much whatever we wanted while motoring, in fact, either the
belt was slipping and/or the alternator was not putting out enough to
replace the amps being used and recharging that which was being taken
otherwise.

So, for a long time, and in particular in the last week, our batteries
have been in severe deficit. However, they're now up to snuff, the
shorepower charger does a great job in keeping up and dumping power
into the battery, and the wind and solar are now again making
meaningful contributions to our overall operation.

We're taking all the alternators to be tested tomorrow; if they aren't
up to snuff (the one I'd just put on didn't put out at all), we're in
for new alternators of higher output. I've got responses from several
sources about the means to achieve that in the same mounting as I
have, so I'm hopeful we'll be fine about it. Once we've proven our
charging sources, we'll go on the hook and prove our ability to live
in our budget.

Of course, in the end, it's pretty simple. We modify our lifestyle to
accommodate our electrical income. If we can't make it work, we'll
break out the Honda genset. If we find we use that all the time,
we'll figure out some means to make it reasonable to do so. We
planned on using it regularly, in any event, for powering our hookah
rig, so I'm currently looking for something which won't outgas to hold
the gasoline, as it uses straight, vs our outboards which are 2 cycle,
and, in particular, doesn't use much of it, so we'll have small usage
and some storage issues.

Thanks for the interest. Stay tuned in the coming posts about our
actual resolutions...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make
it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make
it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

Skip Gundlach wrote:

We don't yet know. We're gong to do an energy audit, prolly tomorrow,
to see just exactly how much each item uses.

Add battery capacity, any way you can, it solves a lot of problems
including poor alternator performance.

Lew

On Jul 23, 8:45 pm, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Skip Gundlach wrote:

We don't yet know. We're gong to do an energy audit, prolly tomorrow,
to see just exactly how much each item uses.

Add battery capacity, any way you can, it solves a lot of problems
including poor alternator performance.

Lew

There is another path............. reduce load = smaller house bank,
smaller battery charger, smaller alt, less engine running, quiter,
cooler, also less things to fix!

Bigger aint always better. My 400 Ah house bank is huge...............
for me

Bob wrote:


There is another path............. reduce load = smaller house bank,
smaller battery charger, smaller alt, less engine running, quiter,
cooler, also less things to fix!

Bigger aint always better. My 400 Ah house bank is huge...............
for me

As long as you remember that you must replace 125AH for every 100AH
consumed and the max sustained recharge rate is 15% of the battery
bank AH capacity.

Being realistic, over time, electrical consumption will increase, not
decrease.

These days, minimalists are few and far between.

Lew

On Jul 23, 11:21 pm, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Bob wrote:

Bigger aint always better.


These days, minimalists are few and far between.

Lew


Hi Lew:

I must agree sadly with you.

In my 20s I sported about the west coast on my Norton motorcycle. It
was basically two tyres, a frame, and two cylinders. Light, fast, and
easy to fix cause everything was right there. I just could not
understand other riders who zoomed past with full dress Honda lead
wings, huge faring, fiberglass saddle bag condos, AND pulling a
trailer. I think there was a mortycycle under all that ****. Sorta
defeated the purpose of a motorcycle I thought. Christ, they
reportedly even had a reverse gear !?! But they seemed to be having
fun............

I wonder what I can fix for lunch since I don't have a
refer............. oh yes,

boiled pasta
cabbage, carrots, some unions
peanut sauce
fish sauce
Squeeze of lime
some wonderful red chili sauce with that rooster on the bottle.

And a nice glass of tea

Umm........ fresh crunchy............ AND NO REFER !

After lunch ? Since I don't need to install another alternator or
write a daily 1000 word blog I think Ill bike over to the library and
flirt with woman in the children's section. She's way
cute..................

Bob

On Jul 23, 8:00 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:59 pm, Bob wrote:

Hi Skip:

Do you have a way to determin a battery's level of charge?

Battery Monitor?
Hydrometer?

Bob

On Jul 24, 5:46 am, Bob wrote:
On Jul 23, 8:00 pm, Skip Gundlach wrote:

On Jul 23, 12:59 pm, Bob wrote:

Hi Skip:

Do you have a way to determin a battery's level of charge?

Battery Monitor?
Hydrometer?

Bob

Somehow I think Skip would prefer to spend time writing lengthy
cruising blogs, than learning about S.G. levels... =)

cheers,
Pete.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:00:33 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote:

On Jul 23, 12:59 pm, Bob wrote:
On Jul 23, 8:32 am, Skip Gundlach wrote:

July 19th -
I go in with one of the two

spare
alternators I have, and change it out, on the thought that perhaps
the
one
which has been on the engine since we bought it was somehow
defective. Ever
hopeful, perhaps this one is 70 amps? Nope. Same basic output. If
we
load up everything possible at the same time, it's more than the
alternator

can supply, let alone fill the battery with the excess.

Skip............. just how many amps do you use in a day?!?!!!!?

Bob

Hi, Bob,

We don't yet know. We're gong to do an energy audit, prolly tomorrow,
to see just exactly how much each item uses.

However, the root of the problem was twofold. We didn't have an
effective shore power charger, for some extended period of time (we
don't know how long, as it was just discovered). That meant that we
were being profligate with our 12V ashore and at the dock, and running
our entire, or a major part of the, load, on just the solar and wind.
At the dock and at the stands, that was pretty low as compared to
being out in the briny. The second problem was that, as we were
motoring for most of this trip, and assuming we had plenty of amps to
use pretty much whatever we wanted while motoring, in fact, either the
belt was slipping and/or the alternator was not putting out enough to
replace the amps being used and recharging that which was being taken
otherwise.

So, for a long time, and in particular in the last week, our batteries
have been in severe deficit. However, they're now up to snuff, the
shorepower charger does a great job in keeping up and dumping power
into the battery, and the wind and solar are now again making
meaningful contributions to our overall operation.

We're taking all the alternators to be tested tomorrow; if they aren't
up to snuff (the one I'd just put on didn't put out at all), we're in
for new alternators of higher output. I've got responses from several
sources about the means to achieve that in the same mounting as I
have, so I'm hopeful we'll be fine about it. Once we've proven our
charging sources, we'll go on the hook and prove our ability to live
in our budget.

Of course, in the end, it's pretty simple. We modify our lifestyle to
accommodate our electrical income. If we can't make it work, we'll
break out the Honda genset. If we find we use that all the time,
we'll figure out some means to make it reasonable to do so. We
planned on using it regularly, in any event, for powering our hookah
rig, so I'm currently looking for something which won't outgas to hold
the gasoline, as it uses straight, vs our outboards which are 2 cycle,
and, in particular, doesn't use much of it, so we'll have small usage
and some storage issues.

Thanks for the interest. Stay tuned in the coming posts about our
actual resolutions...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make
it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make
it
come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.
You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)to your system.

Skip,

I strongly suggest that you get a digital voltmeter with at least one
decimil place readout and wire it into your system. Use a selector
switch so that you can read the voltage of any battery bank. It is
priceless for monitoring what is going on with the electrons.

The one I have is a LED readout so it is easy to see at night.

You can use it to check everything - charging? It will climb up to
about 14.4 volts and then drop off to about 13.6, or if you are using
a manual charger you can monitor voltages and switch the charger at
the appropriate time. How much power are your nav lights using just
switch them on and check the voltage. Ho! Ho! Turned the lights on and
the voltage driopped 0.1 volts at 12.7 volts. A little math and you
know how much power yout lights draw.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)