On Jul 3, 5:12 pm, Bill wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:11 pm, Bruce wrote:





On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 18:54:40 -0700, Bill

wrote:
So I have posted here in the past about my outrigger sailing canoe
project but have not had much time to post progress updates.

First, we are going with 27' long. The plans use this as the example
of measurements for stretching the hull so the math is much easier
plus my brother just went out and bought a Rinker 250 (25') and put a
2 foot swim step on it so I'll burn in a fiery pit of hell before I
let him beat me. Not to mention that 27' will be good for 4 people to
sail aboard and not loose much performance. It is a canoe after all
and is about 1.5' wide in the main hull. I think it will sail best
with two to three people and I want, just once, to get 25kts.

Second, we got the mold stations up and perfectly straight. It took
a little time here because we didn't want a crooked boat, but you
could calibrate a laser to this thing. We got the lumber for the hull
and have been milling like there is no tomorrow. We are using Redwood
with Mahogany accent strips at the waterline. Right now we have
enough to do about 9 vertical inches of the hull. We need to cut a
lot more.

This week I am going to pick up the bamboo which will be used for the
mast and a few supports on the akas. Next weekend we are planning to
get the strips we milled on the molds and probably mill a bunch more
after that.

We have a long way to go still but I think we are making pretty good
progress considering our limited time and experience. It looks a
little daunting to see the molds up there. It is really big for such
a small boat and everyone says wow that's a lot longer than I thought
it would be. I think when I drop in the ocean and start heading for
Catalina or San Diego I wont think it's so big anymore.

Bill

You know? I'd have another think about using bamboo for a mast.
Bamboo is a funny material as even though thoroughly cured it still
warps easily. In addition there are many different types of bamboo -
I'm not a specialist in bamboo but living in Thailand I do come in
contact with it and it is far less rigid then I had once thought.

If you are building a 27 ft. boat you must be thinking about a mast of
about the same length and I would have grave doubts that a single
stick of bamboo is going to be stiff enough.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm treating the bamboo with epoxy on the inside and glassing the
outside. It wont absorb any water

Why would it not absorb water? Epoxy is not water proof, water
resistant yes, proof, no.

and it wont split plus the 10oz.
glass will help to make it a little stiffer and increase the strength
of the material. Bamboo is really strong stuff so I am pretty
confident. I am getting two just in case one breaks and it is fairly
inexpensive material. If it doesn't work I can make a new mast out of
solid wood.

Keep your solid wood handy

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why would it not absorb water? Epoxy is not water proof, water
resistant yes, proof, no.

I'm not leaving it in the water. It is going to be stored on land.
Both ends swill be plugged. You can argue the ideal possibilities all
day but its basically doing a wood/fiberglass composite structure
using bamboo. Bamboo is a very strong natural structure and I am
using a pole much wider than recommended to increase strength even
more. You and Bruce don't have to sail on it. I need it light weight
to go faster and get better handling characterisitcs. Why do you care
so much? Have you ever tried it? Are you invested in my project in
some way? Why not just say 'good luck and let me know if it works
out'?

On Jul 5, 1:30 pm, Bill wrote:
Why would it not absorb water? Epoxy is not water proof, water
resistant yes, proof, no.

I'm not leaving it in the water. It is going to be stored on land.
Both ends swill be plugged. You can argue the ideal possibilities all
day but its basically doing a wood/fiberglass composite structure
using bamboo. Bamboo is a very strong natural structure and I am
using a pole much wider than recommended to increase strength even
more. You and Bruce don't have to sail on it. I need it light weight
to go faster and get better handling characterisitcs. Why do you care
so much? Have you ever tried it? Are you invested in my project in
some way? Why not just say 'good luck and let me know if it works
out'?

Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

On Jul 5, 2:55 pm, wrote:
On Jul 5, 1:30 pm, Bill wrote:

Why would it not absorb water? Epoxy is not water proof, water
resistant yes, proof, no.

I'm not leaving it in the water. It is going to be stored on land.
Both ends swill be plugged. You can argue the ideal possibilities all
day but its basically doing a wood/fiberglass composite structure
using bamboo. Bamboo is a very strong natural structure and I am
using a pole much wider than recommended to increase strength even
more. You and Bruce don't have to sail on it. I need it light weight
to go faster and get better handling characterisitcs. Why do you care
so much? Have you ever tried it? Are you invested in my project in
some way? Why not just say 'good luck and let me know if it works
out'?

Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

And don't bother, I won't be returning to this thread. So just keep
your dream going, hope it works out well for you.

Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill
wrote:

Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?






Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jul 5, 8:58 pm, Bruce wrote:

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.
- Show quoted text -

Sorry, had to revisit this question. You do what you did, and if it
does not work out, you move on and help the next guy.

I should have just laid back, sorry to the group, later, going fishing
early morning.

On Jul 5, 5:58 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill



wrote:
Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:43:30 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On Jul 5, 5:58 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:20:39 -0700, Bill



wrote:
Well, sorry you are so defensive. The reason I care is this is a
builders group, and I am a builder. You came here for help (unless you
are just dreaming and bragging) and I thought I was helping. Screw you
though, I won't make that mistake again. I can't imagine coming to
someone for help, then turning into an ahole when you hear something
you don't want to hear or address, but that's just me.

I posted an update of my build for all the people that might be
interested and I immediately get replies of 'why would you do that,
that wont ever work and it's not a good idea' from people that have
never tried it before. The responses I got from you and Bruce were
very harsh and from people that have not even stated any experience
with this material. In my experience when two people interested in
building something are talking a project it is more constructive than
that. You ask questions if you don't know and make polite
suggestions, you don't say things like it could never be a permanent
solution, if you haven't tried it. You don't jump all over someone
that has been planning or many months after thingkin about it for five
minutes. Sorry if I seem a bit defensive but I came here to share and
post a little something to an otherwise low active group and I get
attacked by several people that think they know everything. Next time
you try to help someone maybe you could be polite about it. That goes
for Bruce even more, just because you never did it doesn't mean it
can't be done.

I rather resent your statement "from people that have
never tried it before" as I've been building boats since I was 12
years old - more then sixty years ago and I have attempted to use
bamboo for a number of purposes ranging from masts to handles for boat
hooks and found that contrary to appearances it was never as effective
as some other common material. I might also mention that I am a
mechanical engineer so I do have some familiarity with strengths of
various materials.

I believe I stated that it is your boat, with the implication that you
could and would do as you wanted.

So, enlighten me. Would you suggest I do the next time someone starts
to explain how they are going to go to something that I have tried and
found to be a totally unsatisfactory solution to the problem? Should I
walk away snickering under my breath, "friggin idjet" or should I try
to tell the guy that it might not work.

You tell me that you are going to buy a piece of bamboo (that if you
do not store very carefully will warp like crazy) split it lengthwise
and carve out the webs; paint it with epoxy; glue it back together and
then sheath it with 200 oz. glass; and that you have been thinking
about this for years -- have you ever given thought to the fact that
if you were to build a foam cored ,glass coated mast, similar to those
used on wind surfers it would be (1) stronger and (2) easier to build?

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

Re Rope stropped blocks:

I'm not being sarcastic here but if you are really capable of building
authentic rope stropped blocks with decent bearings then, for God's
sake, slip an advertisement into "Wooden Boat", or one of the other
vintage boat magazines as real authentic wooden blocks command a very
good price. In fact there was an article in "Practical Boat,Owner", a
British boating magazine, some years back about a chap that was
building a wood boat and couldn't locate any authentic wooden blocks
so started making some. He soon found that he could sell every one he
could make amd started a one man factory to make them -- the article
never said whether he finished his boat or not....


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:43:30 -0700, Bill
wrote stuff
and I replied:

Political announcement:

Top post

AND I will remove the last 3 weeks' postings as well:

Bill:

You are "asking for advice" on a public forum. Not everybody who
questions your actions has to have tried it before. Much of the
progress of any engineering process relies on the expoerience of many
other people, who have tried stuff and documented their failures along
with their successes.

In turn many others have read of the repeated experience of other
people (that's science and its spread) and will pass it on to any
person who tried to repeat past failures.

Bruce has apparently had direct experience with bamboo. He has also
seen bamboo fail when others tried it.

Stop clinging to your ideas....no...fine cling as you wish...but do
NOT belittle those who have either experenced failure or WITNESSED
failure, who are willing to pass that experience on.

Bruce, I didn't know you had done it but I got the impression that you
were another usenet idiot that likes to tell people what to do without
having ever tried it since you didn't state that you have done this
before. I didn't mean to offend you but posting to newsgroups in the
past has occasionally brought these people to me and it really bothers
me.I apologize if that is not you or your intention. As for the
thought of a foam cored fiberglass mast, yes I have thought of it
along with aluminum but ultimately I want the boat to be all wood and
rope appearance, as much as possible. I know treating the bamboo is
more work but I am doing a lot of things that are more work just to
get the boat I really want. I am planning on making my own rope
stropped blocks as well. They will be bigger and take a lot more time
but I think it will give a better appearance. The sheaves will be
bronze but little else will be made of anything other than wood, rope
or clear fiberglass. Maybe this will clear things up and bring the
peace back to RBB.

Bill

Human bevaviour: Bestiality with a brain