Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on over
the last few years is how much electricity a human being can generate.
Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you were to build
a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle including the
peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you could have the
alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to peddle, you could use
the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the
alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V?

Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and your
generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to charge your
batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about pedalling for a
couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to running the engine for
a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun

Shaun,

Brian Allen was the pilot/engine of the manpowered flight across the
English channel. It was said that his peak was about 1/2hp (375w) for
short bursts. So, yes, you could do it. If you really wanted to.

Matt Colie



Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on over
the last few years is how much electricity a human being can generate.
Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you were to build
a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle including the
peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you could have the
alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to peddle, you could use
the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the
alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V?

Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and your
generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to charge your
batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about pedalling for a
couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to running the engine for
a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun



--
target of diversity
victim of affirmative action
refugee from the war on poverty
minimized by political correctness

Normal people (not those in superb condition) can maintain about 150 watts
for 30 minutes. P=IE
Steve

"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
...
Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on
over the last few years is how much electricity a human being can
generate. Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you
were to build a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle
including the peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you
could have the alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to
peddle, you could use the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another
pulley going to the alternator. How many amps can a person generate at
12V?

Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and
your generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to
charge your batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about
pedalling for a couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to
running the engine for a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily
bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun

Couple of hours a day, at 10 amps? Compared to an engine charging at
30 amps? Free excercise?

With an electric motor / generator, you could charge batteries or
direct drive, emulate rowing, even use solar power. You could also
charge from the prop under sail. A direct pedal drive might work more
efficiently, if geared in after the engine drive. A wind generator
could also contribute.

If a man can row across the ocean, why not pedal / sail? Drag a krill
net an hour a day and get plenty of food. Catch rain to drink.

Be the first new independant sustainable aquatic mammal life form in
millions of years? Let Darwin be your judge.

Terry K

300w would be going hard. (One of the worlds top sprint cyclists hits
1100w, Lance Armstrong holds 450w for an hour).
As a former bike racer myself, I'd say it would be a real workout, the
only problem with this pedal power recharging system, is the borebom,
exersice bikes have always been a least favourite amongst cyclist. Look
at 200w for an average fit person, then you have only 35% effiency of
the alternator, 70W gives about 5 amps. At least it solves the problem
of lack of aerobic exersice on a passage.

Gary

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:

Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on over
the last few years is how much electricity a human being can generate.
Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you were to build
a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle including the
peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you could have the
alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to peddle, you could use
the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the
alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V?

Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and your
generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to charge your
batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about pedalling for a
couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to running the engine for
a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun

Gary wrote:

300w would be going hard. (One of the worlds top sprint cyclists hits
1100w, Lance Armstrong holds 450w for an hour).
As a former bike racer myself, I'd say it would be a real workout, the
only problem with this pedal power recharging system, is the borebom,
exersice bikes have always been a least favourite amongst cyclist. Look
at 200w for an average fit person, then you have only 35% effiency of
the alternator, 70W gives about 5 amps. At least it solves the problem
of lack of aerobic exersice on a passage.

Gary


You can get closer to 70% efficiency if you go to a permanent magnet
alternator rather than an automotive style.

But the rest of your numbers are right on.

--
“TAANSTAFL”

__________________________________________________ __________________________

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3
__________________________________________________ __________________________

More just looking at options... My boats only 26 feet, but im dreaming of
the day when i win $100million and build the 75 foot catamaran that I've
always dreamed of ;-)

Having pedal power generation would be just another arrow in the quiver, to
go allong side a standalone generator, alternators on the dual engines, twin
windmill power generators, solar, and of course electronic motors capable of
hybrid modes....

Of course it goes without saying that the boat would have numerous
redundancies, like either one, or both twin engines could be used to
generate electricity to power the twin electric motors turning the props,
but those same props would also have electronic clutches on the electric
motors and a second set of drive gears that could be run directly off either
one, or both the diesel motors by hydraulics. And that same hydraulic
system could be used to run winches, and even the refrigeration system whose
compressors could be run hydraulically or electrically. There would also be
electric motors capable of driving the hydraulics, giving you numerous
redundancies of driving anything on the boat off the batteries by
electronics, or if electronics had failed then by hydraulics, or directly
off the motors once they were started, and many options for charging the
immense battery bank. It goes without saying that said vessel would also
have retractable wings, and be capable of flying albeit at sub-sonic speeds.
naturally it would also be capable of diving down to a depth of 1000metres
below sea level and would also shrink down to the size of a ferrari and
sprout wheels so that you could drive it to work and impress all your
colleagues. Im still working on the colour scheme, which would be pivotal
in impressing said colleagues.

Shaun

" ray lunder wrote in message
...
In the film, "soylent green" actor Edward G. Robinson pedals an
exercise bike driving an automotive alternator to charge batteries so
we know it's possible in the movies. I heard of someone doing it on an
off-the-grid island too. Maybe a folding bike would save space. You
must have quite a large boat to be considering something like that. If
your craft sails at 5 or 6 knots you can tap off the prop shaft and
get it for free unless you need the exercise. Some systems use a
larger wheel on the shaft to drive the small pulley on the alternator.
Bon Voyage.

On Fri, 11 May 2007 12:36:15 GMT, "Shaun Van Poecke"
wrote:

Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on
over
the last few years is how much electricity a human being can generate.
Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you were to
build
a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle including the
peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you could have the
alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to peddle, you could use
the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the
alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V?

Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and
your
generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to charge
your
batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about pedalling for a
couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to running the engine
for
a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun

On May 12, 8:26 am, "Shaun Van Poecke"
wrote:
More just looking at options... My boats only 26 feet, but im dreaming of
the day when i win $100million and build the 75 foot catamaran that I've
always dreamed of ;-)

Having pedal power generation would be just another arrow in the quiver, to
go allong side a standalone generator, alternators on the dual engines, twin
windmill power generators, solar, and of course electronic motors capable of
hybrid modes....

Of course it goes without saying that the boat would have numerous
redundancies, like either one, or both twin engines could be used to
generate electricity to power the twin electric motors turning the props,
but those same props would also have electronic clutches on the electric
motors and a second set of drive gears that could be run directly off either
one, or both the diesel motors by hydraulics. And that same hydraulic
system could be used to run winches, and even the refrigeration system whose
compressors could be run hydraulically or electrically. There would also be
electric motors capable of driving the hydraulics, giving you numerous
redundancies of driving anything on the boat off the batteries by
electronics, or if electronics had failed then by hydraulics, or directly
off the motors once they were started, and many options for charging the
immense battery bank. It goes without saying that said vessel would also
have retractable wings, and be capable of flying albeit at sub-sonic speeds.
naturally it would also be capable of diving down to a depth of 1000metres
below sea level and would also shrink down to the size of a ferrari and
sprout wheels so that you could drive it to work and impress all your
colleagues. Im still working on the colour scheme, which would be pivotal
in impressing said colleagues.

Shaun

" ray lunder wrote in message

...

In the film, "soylent green" actor Edward G. Robinson pedals an
exercise bike driving an automotive alternator to charge batteries so
we know it's possible in the movies. I heard of someone doing it on an
off-the-grid island too. Maybe a folding bike would save space. You
must have quite a large boat to be considering something like that. If
your craft sails at 5 or 6 knots you can tap off the prop shaft and
get it for free unless you need the exercise. Some systems use a
larger wheel on the shaft to drive the small pulley on the alternator.
Bon Voyage.

On Fri, 11 May 2007 12:36:15 GMT, "Shaun Van Poecke"
wrote:

Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on
over
the last few years is how much electricity a human being can generate.
Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you were to
build
a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle including the
peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you could have the
alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to peddle, you could use
the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the
alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V?
I had a friend once that rigged up a bike to an alternator and ran his
computer from it. He produced 100 watts and could do it for about an
hour or so. He was in the shape that most of us are in.

Not mentioned as an alternative is a piece of rope with a propeller on
the end dragged behind the boat and fastened to the shaft of a DC
generator. The "rope" must be of sufficient size and material to be
up to the job and the propeller should be on the end of a 3 to 4 foot
metal shaft so as to give it stability.


Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and
your
generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to charge
your
batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about pedalling for a
couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to running the engine
for
a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun

Back in the fifties, In high school physics, we did an experiment to find
out how much power teen agers could generate. Our task was running up
stairs. We found that kids in really athletic shape could put out close to
one HP for one flight. The average was less than half that value. One HP
is 746 watts with out losses. We are a pretty puny species! No wonder we
got animals to do the hard work followed by wind, water and finally steam
and electricity.
Dave
"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
...
Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred
and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a
nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on
over the last few years is how much electricity a human being can
generate. Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you
were to build a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle
including the peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you
could have the alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to
peddle, you could use the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another
pulley going to the alternator. How many amps can a person generate at
12V?

Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an
excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and
your generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to
charge your batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about
pedalling for a couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to
running the engine for a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily
bread, if you like.

Thoughts?

Shaun

Not mentioned as an alternative is a piece of rope with a propeller on
the end dragged behind the boat and fastened to the shaft of a DC
generator. The "rope" must be of sufficient size and material to be
up to the job and the propeller should be on the end of a 3 to 4 foot
metal shaft so as to give it stability.


thats absolutely brilliant! did you hook it direct to the shaft, or via a
pulley? Thats so simple it almost hurts that i didnt think of it first ;-)

Shaun