scbafreak wrote:
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on
boat building and I would really appreciate any help I could get
here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange
County California. I am considering building a boat starting a few
years from now to live on. I plan to start several years from now
to allow time to save money and get more sailing experience. I am
largely plannng to do this because of outrageous housing costs

Have you checked mooring fees? Taxes?
____________

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there
done this or something similar that I can answer these questions
for me.

1) How much will this cost.

Not hard to figure but you have to have a material list. Then add in
spars, sails, running & standing rigging, electronics, engine etc.
_______________

2) How many man hours would it take.

You have a job and intend to do this evenings and weekends? Then
think man years, not hours. I have a friend that finished a strip
built Tahiti ketch recently. IIRC, he worked on it for close to two
decades.

BTW, I'm not a big "strip" fan but I sure like it better than plywood.
__________________

3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done
before I can launch it and move onto it.

IIRC, a bare hull - no accommodation - represents about 15% of the
cost/work.
____________________

4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to
make it realiable and what I would want. (this would probably
only be an option if building turns out to be too expensive but
would not be limited to wood boats)

That depends totally on the condition of the old boat. In some cases
it could work but in others you'd be spending more in both money and
time than if building from the keel up. Generally - especially given
your experience - I'd advise against it.
___________________

Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these
questions because it depends on the person and the boat, but that
is really not very helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

"Everyone" is right. My guesstimate - a wild one - would be $150,000
to $250,000. Here is a site that discusses both time and $$ but it is
for multi-hull boats. Given the number of owner built ply cats that
used to be around I'd think a mono hull would require more of both $$
& time.
http://www.f-boat.com/pages/costs.html

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Have you checked mooring fees? Taxes?
"Everyone" is right. My guesstimate - a wild one - would be $150,000
to $250,000. Here is a site that discusses both time and $$ but it is
for multi-hull boats. Given the number of owner built ply cats that
used to be around I'd think a mono hull would require more of both $$
& time.
http://www.f-boat.com/pages/costs.html

All of this is still less than buying a house. Median cost of a house in O.C.
is currently 600K and in five years it will be even more. Long Beach is not
any better. If I keep the boat there I realize there will be fees but is
that more expensive than owning a house? Is it more expensive if I can pull
of the uild without any loans at all and maybe only taking out a loan for
spars sails rigging and some electronic equipment if at all?

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200608/1

scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:
Have you checked mooring fees? Taxes?
"Everyone" is right. My guesstimate - a wild one - would be
$150,000 to $250,000. Here is a site that discusses both time and
$$ but it is for multi-hull boats. Given the number of owner
built ply cats that used to be around I'd think a mono hull would
require more of both $$ & time.
http://www.f-boat.com/pages/costs.html

All of this is still less than buying a house. Median cost of a
house in O.C. is currently 600K and in five years it will be even
more.

Ah, but in five years all of us - except retirees such as myself -
will be earning more. Isn't government induced inflation grand?

Long Beach is not any better. If I keep the boat there I
realize there will be fees but is that more expensive than owning a
house? Is it more expensive if I can pull of the uild without any
loans at all and maybe only taking out a loan for spars sails
rigging and some electronic equipment if at all?

I realize housing in CA - and other areas including Honolulu which is
the reason I left - is ridiculous. I feel safe in saying you could
build a hell of a boat for less than a junky house would cost you in
CA. However, that POS house will increase in price - price, not
value - over the coming inflation-is-a-way-of-life years. A boat
might too but I kinda doubt it.

I also forgot to mention stuff like hull insurance and maintenance.
Forty years ago I was living in Honolulu and in much the same position
as you are now...even then, houses were expensive there and I didn't
want any I could afford. I didn't build a boat, bought an older one
and wife, dog and I lived on it for 10 years. Took a lot of $$ and
time but I liked it (more than did the wife). For that time and money
we had a living area - in a 42' ketch - that wasn't much bigger than a
tract house guest bedroom. We each had our very own but small hanging
locker though. One learns to simplify...

Oh yeah...hull insurance and maintenance. I don't recall what
insurance was - been too long ago - but it wasn't cheap. Maintenance
& dry dock fees ran me the equivalent of $10,000 - $12,000 per year.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
scbafreak via BoatKB.com wrote:
Have you checked mooring fees? Taxes?
"Everyone" is right. My guesstimate - a wild one - would be
$150,000 to $250,000. Here is a site that discusses both time and
$$ but it is for multi-hull boats. Given the number of owner
built ply cats that used to be around I'd think a mono hull would
require more of both $$ & time.
http://www.f-boat.com/pages/costs.html

All of this is still less than buying a house. Median cost of a
house in O.C. is currently 600K and in five years it will be even
more.

Ah, but in five years all of us - except retirees such as myself -
will be earning more. Isn't government induced inflation grand?

Long Beach is not any better. If I keep the boat there I
realize there will be fees but is that more expensive than owning a
house? Is it more expensive if I can pull of the uild without any
loans at all and maybe only taking out a loan for spars sails
rigging and some electronic equipment if at all?

I realize housing in CA - and other areas including Honolulu which is
the reason I left - is ridiculous. I feel safe in saying you could
build a hell of a boat for less than a junky house would cost you in
CA. However, that POS house will increase in price - price, not
value - over the coming inflation-is-a-way-of-life years. A boat
might too but I kinda doubt it.

I also forgot to mention stuff like hull insurance and maintenance.
Forty years ago I was living in Honolulu and in much the same position
as you are now...even then, houses were expensive there and I didn't
want any I could afford. I didn't build a boat, bought an older one
and wife, dog and I lived on it for 10 years. Took a lot of $$ and
time but I liked it (more than did the wife). For that time and money
we had a living area - in a 42' ketch - that wasn't much bigger than a
tract house guest bedroom. We each had our very own but small hanging
locker though. One learns to simplify...

Oh yeah...hull insurance and maintenance. I don't recall what
insurance was - been too long ago - but it wasn't cheap. Maintenance
& dry dock fees ran me the equivalent of $10,000 - $12,000 per year.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Building a boat from scratch makes no sense financially. Currently,
there are plenty of storm damaged boats available for very little that
could be fixed up. In many cases, the cost of shipping them to CA
would be more than you would pay to buy them. In many cases, the boats
are completely outfitted but simply need some hull repairs and
re-wiring.

In one sense, you're 25 years too late. In the 70's - early 80's,
Costa Mesa / Newport Beach was a bee hive of 'plastic classic' boat
building activity. One could buy 'bare hull' kits of some very
legitimate, sea-worthy designs from area factories and finish off the
project at home, returning to the factory for parts and / or advice as
needed. A book that documents one person's project (a Westsail 32) -
and a fine book to have for any boat-builders shelf - is 'From a Bare
Hull' by Ferenc Mate. There are still a couple of world-class sail boat
builders in Orange County - Pacific Seacraft and Samuel L. Morse.
Perhaps they offer pre-arranged tours (if, for nothing else, so you can
see what an enormous ammount of work building a 38' boat is... ).

Mike Worrall
Los Angeles

"scbafreak" u25927@uwe wrote in message news:6583fa26456f4@uwe...
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from
now
to live on.

As others have pointed out, you will be a lot older and poorer before you
ever get your boat in the water. But Orange County mooring space is harder
to find than litter in Disneyland. Where do you plan to live once you build
your boat?

Alex

Alex wrote:
Where do you plan to live once you build
your boat?

Probably in Long Beach Harbor. I know a few people that live on boats there.
I know that is L.A. county but it's still pretty close.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200608/1

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:33:48 GMT, "scbafreak via BoatKB.com"
u25927@uwe wrote:

Probably in Long Beach Harbor. I know a few people that live on boats there.
I know that is L.A. county but it's still pretty close.

Do you have a building site that will last you through a multi-year
project? It needs to have power, water, security and access to water
at the launch stage.

Building a boat to save money is generally a poor idea. It seems to cost
more to build than to buy a used boat in reasonably good condition. On
the other hand, thirty years ago, lots of people were building
ferro-cement boats in the 40 foot range to save money. Some of them
turned out OK.

If you are considering building in plywood or strip planking, don't even
think about cutting costs by buying cheap materials. You will absolutely
be happier with a smaller boat built well enough to last 20 years and
well enough to be proud of than a larger boat that is continually
falling apart.

All that said, if you want to build a boat, go for it. Don't let the
negative-point-outers talk you out of it. Even if you start and never
finish it, you will never know if you could have done it if you don't
try. And you are right -- the satisfaction of owning (and sailing) a
boat you built is worth a lot of sacrifice.

Patrick

scbafreak wrote:
I am currently having a very difficult time getting information on boat
building and I would really appreciate any help I could get here.

Here is the situation. I am 26 and live in an apartment in Orange County
California. I am considering building a boat starting a few years from now
to live on. I plan to start several years from now to allow time to save
money and get more sailing experience. I am largely plannng to do this
because of outrageous housing costs in this area making it very difficult to
purchase a house as a first time buyer but also because I think that I would
really enjoy living on a boat. Ideally I would like to have enough money put
aside to fund most of the build but I will, obviously be putting more money
into the project as I build. I think that if I take five years to build then
this should be reasonable. I should be able to build in my Dads back yard
which has a rather large cement pad and he may be willing to let me invade
his house for a while. He doesn't live far from me so i can still work and
do all of the things I normaly do and build on weekends and at night. I plan
to do as much of the construction as I am capable of to both keep costs down
and ensure that I get a good quality boat.

I like the idea of building my own boat as I have built many things before
and I am currently working on building small sailing outrigger canoes. We
have all of the tools needed and a lot of experiencein woodworking. My dad
would be willing to help when needed as he is retired and has some free time.
Ideally I would like to come away with a nice place to live that I do not
need to make loan payments but I realize that certain equipment I may need to
get a loan for (such as radios and navigation, sails, spars....). I want
something that could potentially last the rest of my life and be sailerd all
over the world.

I am looking at Bruce Roberts designs. Does anyone have any opinion as to
them. I will be doing wood construction in either Plywood or strip composite
and the design I am currently most interested in is the Centenial Spray 38.
I have never heard of a Spray as a type of boat elsewhere so i don't really
know what makes that different from other designs. The best I can tell from
looking at it is that the cabin seems to be raised a little further aft than
the the rest of the designs giving them a little more headroom, they don't
seem to have an internal cockpit and the hull shape seems to be a lttle
different. I have no idea if I am right.

Here is what I would really like to know. Has anyone out there done this or
something similar that I can answer these questions for me.

1) How much will this cost.
2) How many man hours would it take.
3) How much of the build (in approximate percentage) must be done before I
can launch it and move onto it.
4) Is it realistically cheaper to buy an old boat then fix it up to make it
realiable and what I would want. (this would probably only be an option if
building turns out to be too expensive but would not be limited to wood boats)


Everyone seems to say that there is no real answer to these questions because
it depends on the person and the boat, but that is really not very helpful.
I understand that these things can range but if someone has done it
themselves then that would give me some sort of comparison.

Bruce Roberts designs say to buy the study plans and price out from there as
they contain complete materials lists but I would like to have some sort of
range before I spend $125. When i am ready I will definately do this and
decide more definitavely but for now i just want a general idea of what it
takes so I can think about it.

Someone please help. So far I have not been able to get any kind of answers
on these questions at all.