Properly done, a crimp connection is
as good as a soldered joint.

no. a crimp connection is ALWAYS better.

Never, never, never, never is a soldered conection anywhere "as good as" a
crimped connection.

crimp first --and correctly -- for connection integrity, THEN solder if you
wish for corrosion protection.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
NEVER solder an electrical connection within a vehicle or any machine that
is subject to motion or vibration. The solder creates a stress
concentration
at the end of the solder, which in time will cause the wire to break right
at the joint. That is why it should never be done. Those that have done
this
and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.
Steve

Generally I crimped and soldered all connections on my boat. IMO there is
little motion or vibration of well supported wires within a boat's
structure.

HOWEVER (and this is a big one), I would NOT solder connections to wires
that are attached to the engine, where there is significant vibration. I
had an alternator output wire fail right at the end of the solder
connection, which seemed to be an obvious fatigue failure. Could have been
nasty if it hadn't broken cleanly away.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:13:02 -0500, dazed and confuzed
wrote:



if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.


Wanna bet your life on everything being perfect and staying that way?

BB
In the real world nothing is perfect. You are betting your life on the
fact that a crimp is perfect as well. Most (not all) solder terminals
have some sort of minimal mechanical connection to hold the conductor in
the terminal until it is soldered.

How do you know that the crimp terminal was done properly? Yet you are
willing to "bet your life" on the fact that it is. It's harder to tell
if a crimped terminal is done improperly than a soldered one.

There is a place for soldered and a place for crimped connections. Yet
either is a good connection IF done properly. If not, either will fail.

The fools are the ones that crimp and then solder.

--
the most committed always win

In the real world nothing is perfect. You are betting your life on the
fact that a crimp is perfect as well. Most (not all) solder terminals
have some sort of minimal mechanical connection to hold the conductor in
the terminal until it is soldered.

In Military aircraft, (some years ago in my experience) only soldered
connections were approved. Only stranded wire was used, and a clip-on
heatsink was used on a small (say 1/8 inch on #16 wire) area just
outside the lug, so solder could not 'wick' into the rest of the
stranded wire, which would degrade the vibration resistance of the wire.
Inspectors had to see the soldered connection before sleeving was
applied over the wire end and lug.

Initially I thought this was a little over-conservative. Then I
realized it was my friends from High School who were flying those F4's
and at 500 MPH close to the ground those connections mattered.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

"The one who dies with the most parts LOSES! What do you need??"

In Military aircraft, (some years ago in my experience) only soldered
connections were approved.

Are you sure? That is totally at various with ALL practises I have seen at
anytime in the last 25 years in anything electrical.

I have seen solder then crimp connections fail again and again, even though
they were specifically forbidden. never saw a crimp then solder connection
fail. crimp then solder is industry requirement, and has been for a very long
time. there is a good reason for that.

The fools are the ones that crimp and then solder.

really? It has been industry standard and required since the early 70's.
there is a reason for that.

JAXAshby wrote:
The fools are the ones that crimp and then solder.


really? It has been industry standard and required since the early 70's.
there is a reason for that.
If the terminal is designed to be a crimp connection only, then
soldering is adding a failure point. If the terminal is designed to be a
solder joint, it usually has a low pressure crimp designed to hold the
conductor and terminal together until the solder is applied. If you
solder a high pressure crimp terminal, you weaken the crimp, allowing
the terminal to "relax" at due to the heat of soldering.

I think we are talking about 2 different types of terminals.



--
the most committed always win

dazed, you seem to be rather confuzed.

The fools are the ones that crimp and then solder.


really? It has been industry standard and required since the early 70's.
there is a reason for that.
If the terminal is designed to be a crimp connection only, then
soldering is adding a failure point. If the terminal is designed to be a
solder joint, it usually has a low pressure crimp designed to hold the
conductor and terminal together until the solder is applied. If you
solder a high pressure crimp terminal, you weaken the crimp, allowing
the terminal to "relax" at due to the heat of soldering.

I think we are talking about 2 different types of terminals.



--
the most committed always win

none wrote in message ...
what an absurd response!
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
rick


Skin effect is something that occurs at higher frequencies. At DC the
electron distribution is equal through the CS of the wire. Skin
effect can usually be ignored below 50 kHz.

Rodney

wrote in message
...

Sorry, Bub, but you are completely wrong. All the applicable codes say
you
cannot solder those connections, and that's been the law for ages. As
someone
has already pointed out, if you solder all the connections in your boat,
it is
going to cost you big time at resale time, as it will all have to be
ripped out
and redone properly at SOMEBODY'S expense. The boat will be uninsurable
and no
bank will finance it either, with that hack wiring job.

Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
for good reason. It's not safe.


BB

Don't get people stressed out. Boats are NOT covered by the NEC - it is for
buildings. I don't know about NFPA but I suspect they are also exempt there
too. If you solder the connections in your boat, it is perfectly o.k.
according to ABYC.

Some stuff from ABYC (stuff snipped)
http://www.cmsquick.com/tech_abyc_E.html :

Wiring connections shall be designed and installed to make mechanical and
electrical joints without damage to the conductors (E8&9).

Twist-on connectors (wire nuts) shall not be used (E8&9).

Solder shall not be the sole means of the mechanical connection in any
circuit. Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less
than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor (E9.16.K8)

Solderless crimp-on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping
tools designed for the connector used and which will produce a connection
meeting the requirements of ABYC (E8.15.14 and E9.15.K4).


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)