Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Hi:

Does the age of the wood have any significant influence on wood
strength or flexibility?

I recently salvaged a bunch of 1950-60s 2x4 and 2x6 Doug fir. All near
clear VG. Of course they had been used for studs?!?!?

I am assuming that they were air dried due to a local mill operations
back then.
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Wouldn't be surprised if the vintage material had closer ring spacing, which
is preferable.
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi:

Does the age of the wood have any significant influence on wood
strength or flexibility?

I recently salvaged a bunch of 1950-60s 2x4 and 2x6 Doug fir. All near
clear VG. Of course they had been used for studs?!?!?

I am assuming that they were air dried due to a local mill operations
back then.
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

I don't think that those doug fir studs are worth anything so I will be
happy to take them off your hands.

you lucky dog

Brian

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

I'm not sure about other woods, but Douglas Fir gets harder over time. I've
run across old Douglas Fir, stuff from the mid-seventies, that you couldn't
even nail ...they just bent.

Brian


"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi:

Does the age of the wood have any significant influence on wood
strength or flexibility?

I recently salvaged a bunch of 1950-60s 2x4 and 2x6 Doug fir. All near
clear VG. Of course they had been used for studs?!?!?

I am assuming that they were air dried due to a local mill operations
back then.
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Brian D wrote:
I'm not sure about other woods, but Douglas Fir gets harder over time. I've
run across old Douglas Fir, stuff from the mid-seventies, that you couldn't
even nail ...they just bent.

Brian


Hi Brian:

In all honesty......... I'm not that knowldgable when it comes to
woodworking. So is there any problem with the older wood? I heard
somthing about it being brittle? Or was that comment from another
helpful person willing to just take it off my hands?

Ever see a house made out of 2x4 that were laid flat on top of each
other much like a log cabin? People did strange things in OR and WA
durring the 50s and 60s.
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Jim Conlin wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if the vintage material had closer ring spacing, which
is preferable.

Yes, kinda looks like the side of a stack of ten dollar bills. I kid
you not. Very tight. I counted about 1-3 knots per 8" stud. Each knot
was smaller than a dime.

I bought a three 2x4 for a house project last year. Made the mistake
leaving them outside for 24 hours. one went corkscrew, another bowed,
the third just split...............

Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Well, I've been here for 46 years now and I've yet to see a 2x4-stacked
house. I've seen several lodgepole type cabins in the woods though, mostly
dating back to the '20s when a few people were wishing they could find gold
here. They've all rotted and disappeared now.

But as far as using the old wood goes, it does NOT get brittle unless it's
got a fungus problem. If there's no whitish or blackish 'look' to it (cut
and look at the interior as well), and there are no soft spots, then the
wood's fine. It's gets stronger as it dries ...not brittle. Obviously,
green wood is more limber and breaks by splintering while dried wood is
stiffer, harder, and breaks in more of a 'snap', but that's true for all
woods and you can't build with green, so where's the problem? I'd love to
have some 50 year old wood to build with. If you bend your boat far enough
to break it, then you've got other problems.

Brian D



"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Brian D wrote:
I'm not sure about other woods, but Douglas Fir gets harder over time.
I've
run across old Douglas Fir, stuff from the mid-seventies, that you
couldn't
even nail ...they just bent.

Brian


Hi Brian:

In all honesty......... I'm not that knowldgable when it comes to
woodworking. So is there any problem with the older wood? I heard
somthing about it being brittle? Or was that comment from another
helpful person willing to just take it off my hands?

Ever see a house made out of 2x4 that were laid flat on top of each
other much like a log cabin? People did strange things in OR and WA
durring the 50s and 60s.
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

That's old-growth. You've got yourself a real special find. I built a boat
that used old-growth Douglas Fir for the frames ...you couldn't fit a needle
between the grain lines. Excellent stuff and rock hard. Pretty too. Don't
let that good wood go to waste! If you build with it, be sure to pre-drill
(slightly undersized) for screws or ring nails. You'll have a tough time if
you don't.

Brian D



"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Conlin wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised if the vintage material had closer ring spacing,
which
is preferable.

Yes, kinda looks like the side of a stack of ten dollar bills. I kid
you not. Very tight. I counted about 1-3 knots per 8" stud. Each knot
was smaller than a dime.

I bought a three 2x4 for a house project last year. Made the mistake
leaving them outside for 24 hours. one went corkscrew, another bowed,
the third just split...............

Bob

I have found old fir to get a bit brittle to work, but don't let that stop you from using it it will be fine.
I have seen that construction at old farms, I have always assumed those structures were used for grain storage.
---Joel---

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

boatbuilder.org wrote:


I have found old fir to get a bit brittle to work, but don't let that
stop you from using it it will be fine.
I have seen that construction at old farms, I have always assumed those
structures were used for grain storage.
---Joel---
boatbuilder.org


Hello Everyone:

Thank you for the wood advice. I am not, by any streach, a boat
builder. But usually am adding or modifying somthing on my fibergflass
boat.

As far as the old growth doug fir studs... In OR and WA most the homes
built before the mid 1960s were framed with reasonably clear old
growth. I knew some hippies in the early 80s who were minning the stuff
durring building demos.

And whats with a home built with 2x4s layed flat!? I have seen one home
and one duplex in Oregon built that way. The duplex looked like a
standard 50s ranch home. No framming. Just 2x4s stacked. The floor, get
this... was 2x4 sistered togeteher like slices in a loaf of bread. That
incredible home was in Newport, OR. My friend Marvin Hamstreet lived
there for a while in the 1970s. I have a picture of it someplace. I
have also seen two other simular structures but they were "blasting
shacks." A place to store explosives. Not to be confused with a "skid
shack."

But enough of the goofy logging culture in the PNW.

Thank you again for the wood advice everyone. I shall continue using my
old 2x4s for those odd projects on my plastic boat.

Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Hi Brian D:

We might be neighbors?

Lets see if my detective skills are keen enough to figure out where you
live.

Brian D wrote:
Well, I've been here for 46 years now and I've yet to see a 2x4-stacked
house. I've seen several lodgepole type cabins in the woods though, mostly
dating back to the '20s

Lodgepole........ that rules out everything north of Grants Pass and
west of the Cascades.

when a few people were wishing they could find gold here.

Gold country............. maybe NE Oregon area Baker, La Grande,
Wallowa, Halfway?? Or maybe Soputhern Oregon area Gold Hill,
Jacksonville, Ashland, Rougue River?

So Brian D, hows my detective skills?
Am I sorta close on any of my guesses?
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

I shouldn't have used the term "lodgepole" because that's a pine ...no pine
around here, but plenty of skinny fir, hem, and spruce up in them thar
hills. The miner's cabins that I spoke of were off roads FR-2209 and
FR-2207, which in turn are off the road that goes to the Opal Creek area
(forgot the name ...but near Mehama), which turns off of Hwy 22 east of
Salem. I live in Albany but grew up around here and those woods up there
are my old stompin' grounds. I've worn out a lot of springs driving up and
down those roads...

Brian D


"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Brian D:

We might be neighbors?

Lets see if my detective skills are keen enough to figure out where you
live.

Brian D wrote:
Well, I've been here for 46 years now and I've yet to see a 2x4-stacked
house. I've seen several lodgepole type cabins in the woods though,
mostly
dating back to the '20s

Lodgepole........ that rules out everything north of Grants Pass and
west of the Cascades.

when a few people were wishing they could find gold here.

Gold country............. maybe NE Oregon area Baker, La Grande,
Wallowa, Halfway?? Or maybe Soputhern Oregon area Gold Hill,
Jacksonville, Ashland, Rougue River?

So Brian D, hows my detective skills?
Am I sorta close on any of my guesses?
Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Brian D wrote:
I shouldn't have used the term "lodgepole" because that's a pine ...no pine
around here, but plenty of skinny fir, hem, and spruce up in them thar
hills. The miner's cabins that I spoke of were off roads FR-2209 and
FR-2207, which in turn are off the road that goes to the Opal Creek area
(forgot the name ...but near Mehama), which turns off of Hwy 22 east of
Salem. I live in Albany but grew up around here and those woods up there
are my old stompin' grounds. I've worn out a lot of springs driving up and
down those roads...

Brian D

Hi Brian:

I know that area reasonable good. East of Salem/Albany is beautiful up
against the hills.
I grew up in Newport. We haed a family friend that drove a log truck
all over that area in the 60s and early 70s. For fun Somtimes I would
ride around with him in the summer.
In fact, have some frinds that run the restraunt at the Stayton golf
course.

Small world.

I was really sad to see the the old T&R truck stop turned into a porn
shop.What a waste.
Does ALbany still have that Timber Festaval? I ahven't heard much about
it in years.

About those 2x4 built houses. I'm surprised you did n't run in to one
over there what with all the stud mills that were in that area.Maybe
that missing village idiot I hear about made his way to Newport and
started building 2x4 houses?

So are you building a boat?

Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Yeah ...we spend a lot of time in the hills, hiking and camping and boating
(and fishing for Kokes).

Albany has gone downhill in a couple of ways I think. It's had a heckuva
meth problem but they're cracking down on that. Now my (nurse) wife tells
me the OD from heroin instead and have a lower chance of survival. The T&R
is gone. The Worldwide Timer Carnival is gone ...a real loss too. They
said that it didn't generate enough revenue, so they shut it down for good.
I don't get that at all, because tickets weren't cheap and the place was
ALWAYS packed ...best 4th of July fireworks display around, and lots of fun
things to watch at the show. Saw 2 guys racing through a log with
V8-powered chainsaws last time (do a web search). Lots of fun.

I asked my Dad about those 2x4 houses since he was born and raised around
here as well. He knew all about them. He said that they were built from
low-grade wood that had knots in it, odds & ends that weren't long enough
for other uses, and that kind of thing. He said it worked just fine except
that running wires and plumbing was more difficult. I've probably seen one
and just didn't know it.

Depoe Bay Wooden Boat show this weekend. We're just having breakfast and
heading over. I've got a friend who's launching a B&B Yacht Designs
Coresound-20 for the first time today and will be christening her ...won't
tell us the name ;-). It's a nice boat and he said it was a great pleasure
working with Graham and Carla at B&B. Good folks.

I'm working on about boat #4 or #5 (can't recall) right now:
http://www.glacierboats.com/tongass . The web site is way out of date but
nobody knows ...they can't see inside my shop! I'm getting ready to paint
the hull and am about 1/3rd done with the cuddy/house.

Brian D




"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Brian D wrote:
I shouldn't have used the term "lodgepole" because that's a pine ...no
pine
around here, but plenty of skinny fir, hem, and spruce up in them thar
hills. The miner's cabins that I spoke of were off roads FR-2209 and
FR-2207, which in turn are off the road that goes to the Opal Creek area
(forgot the name ...but near Mehama), which turns off of Hwy 22 east of
Salem. I live in Albany but grew up around here and those woods up there
are my old stompin' grounds. I've worn out a lot of springs driving up
and
down those roads...

Brian D

Hi Brian:

I know that area reasonable good. East of Salem/Albany is beautiful up
against the hills.
I grew up in Newport. We haed a family friend that drove a log truck
all over that area in the 60s and early 70s. For fun Somtimes I would
ride around with him in the summer.
In fact, have some frinds that run the restraunt at the Stayton golf
course.

Small world.

I was really sad to see the the old T&R truck stop turned into a porn
shop.What a waste.
Does ALbany still have that Timber Festaval? I ahven't heard much about
it in years.

About those 2x4 built houses. I'm surprised you did n't run in to one
over there what with all the stud mills that were in that area.Maybe
that missing village idiot I hear about made his way to Newport and
started building 2x4 houses?

So are you building a boat?

Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Brian D wrote:
Yeah ...we spend a lot of time in the hills, hiking and camping and boating
(and fishing for Kokes).

Lucky dog. Growing up in Newport we would lust for a trip to the
"valley" in the summer. Lots of streams running out of the Cascades and
those little lakes filled with Kokanee and other finned enjoyment.

Albany has gone downhill in a couple of ways I think. It's had a heckuva
meth problem but they're cracking down on that.

Welcom to Oregon and every other state that has lost good jobs. When I
graduated from high school I had three choices: Log....... Fish........
or go to college.
For our kids not its basiclally colege or Wal Mart. I can see why
somany people are selling drugs or growing "medical pot".

Now my (nurse) wife tells
me the OD from heroin instead and have a lower chance of survival.

This is a small world............ my wife is a nurse too! Although she
says she is not a "real" nurse since she works in the OR.

The T&R
is gone. The Worldwide Timer Carnival is gone ...a real loss too. They
said that it didn't generate enough revenue, so they shut it down for good.
I don't get that at all, because tickets weren't cheap and the place was
ALWAYS packed ...best 4th of July fireworks display around, and lots of fun
things to watch at the show. Saw 2 guys racing through a log with
V8-powered chainsaws last time (do a web search). Lots of fun.

Too bad. That was a lot of fun. But a V8 chainsaw?!?!?!? Gads, I mised
that!

I asked my Dad about those 2x4 houses since he was born and raised around
here as well. He knew all about them. He said that they were built from
low-grade wood that had knots in it, odds & ends that weren't long enough
for other uses, and that kind of thing. He said it worked just fine except
that running wires and plumbing was more difficult. I've probably seen one
and just didn't know it.

Good to hear I just wasn't just imagining things.

Depoe Bay Wooden Boat show this weekend.

Cool! Way cute little harbor. To bad I can not duck enough to get my
mast under 101.

We're just having breakfast and
heading over. I've got a friend who's launching a B&B Yacht Designs
Coresound-20 for the first time today and will be christening her ...won't
tell us the name ;-). It's a nice boat and he said it was a great pleasure
working with Graham and Carla at B&B. Good folks.

I'm working on about boat #4 or #5 (can't recall) right now:
http://www.glacierboats.com/tongass . The web site is way out of date but
nobody knows ...they can't see inside my shop! I'm getting ready to paint
the hull and am about 1/3rd done with the cuddy/house.
Brian D


Brian, I went to web site. Your roots are showing. Great looking boat!
She definatly has that salmon dory look. In the 70s there was a guy in
Newport who build modified Oregon/Pacific City dorys for the salmon
fleet. Was that Calkins? Can't remember any moor I've hung around too
many boat shops as a kid. At any rate who ever the builder was he made
some great boats. I use to hang out as much as possible watching. If I
remeber right most were all 1/2 ply sides 3/4" bottoms and framed in
clear fir old growth. I use to see a few over grown with blackberres
during the late 80s and 90s. It was real shame to see so many good
boats just sitting there rotting.

Brian you have a great eye for design. Good to see some folks still
value a fast, seaworthy, and stout boat.

What are thinking about for power options? IO or outboards?

Hope trip to the boat show went well. Stay out of Gracie's Sea Hag!

Bob





"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Brian D wrote:
I shouldn't have used the term "lodgepole" because that's a pine ...no
pine
around here, but plenty of skinny fir, hem, and spruce up in them thar
hills. The miner's cabins that I spoke of were off roads FR-2209 and
FR-2207, which in turn are off the road that goes to the Opal Creek area
(forgot the name ...but near Mehama), which turns off of Hwy 22 east of
Salem. I live in Albany but grew up around here and those woods up there
are my old stompin' grounds. I've worn out a lot of springs driving up
and
down those roads...

Brian D

Hi Brian:

I know that area reasonable good. East of Salem/Albany is beautiful up
against the hills.
I grew up in Newport. We haed a family friend that drove a log truck
all over that area in the 60s and early 70s. For fun Somtimes I would
ride around with him in the summer.
In fact, have some frinds that run the restraunt at the Stayton golf
course.

Small world.

I was really sad to see the the old T&R truck stop turned into a porn
shop.What a waste.
Does ALbany still have that Timber Festaval? I ahven't heard much about
it in years.

About those 2x4 built houses. I'm surprised you did n't run in to one
over there what with all the stud mills that were in that area.Maybe
that missing village idiot I hear about made his way to Newport and
started building 2x4 houses?

So are you building a boat?

Bob

Kiln dry v. Air Dry v. 50+ year old Lumber
 

Here's an example of a V8 chainsaw:

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/154

I don't think that's one of the ones that I saw, but it's been awhile now
....hard to say.

BTW, my wife works in the ICU ...

Thanks for the compliments on the boat. It will use a V8 chainsaw for
power. Just kidding ;-). 160 to 200 hp is the range that's about right for
it. It should push the upper thirties with 180 hp, based on the various
prediction formulae that I used and the boats that I compared to. The
choices are what you'd guess ... you get about 1000# on the transom, but the
little secret is that it'll actually carry 1200# if you've got a regular
pilot house on it as shown. The 'light ship' version (the Rockport
downeaster style) should be limited to 1000# however. One of the proto
builders is putting twin 90's on it, and the other guy hasn't decided.
He'll likely go with a 180-200 hp outboard, but he's been asking about an
inboard also. The new Cummins-Mercruiser diesel inboards (with I/O) will
work. The stringers, decks, etc. are all placed such that any of these
combo's will work without having anything in the way of proper mounting.
The boat was designed for 5/8" bottoms and 3/8" sides, but it seems folks
like the availability of 3/4" and the idea of going thicker on the bottom,
so the design has been reworked with 3/4" bottoms and 3/8" sides. The sides
are light but completely adequate, having some light uprights inside and the
splashrails outside to keep deflection down. The sheer structure is pretty
heavy, and the bulkheads are either 1/2" or 3/4" depending on which you are
talking about. The primary bulkhead (aft cuddy bulkhead) is 3/4" thick.
Decks are glued and glassed in and there are outboard supplemental stringers
....very strong box-girder type of under-deck hull construction. Main
stringers are 1-3/4" by 9-1/2" LVL. This boat is strong yet not heavy.
With full cuddy and properly accommodated pilot house, but no motor(s) or
fuel, the boat weighs in at about 2750#. With motors, half fuel, normal
crew and gear, it has a 3800# displacement ...light for a 26 footer.

Brian D




"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Brian D wrote:
Yeah ...we spend a lot of time in the hills, hiking and camping and
boating
(and fishing for Kokes).

Lucky dog. Growing up in Newport we would lust for a trip to the
"valley" in the summer. Lots of streams running out of the Cascades and
those little lakes filled with Kokanee and other finned enjoyment.

Albany has gone downhill in a couple of ways I think. It's had a heckuva
meth problem but they're cracking down on that.

Welcom to Oregon and every other state that has lost good jobs. When I
graduated from high school I had three choices: Log....... Fish........
or go to college.
For our kids not its basiclally colege or Wal Mart. I can see why
somany people are selling drugs or growing "medical pot".

Now my (nurse) wife tells
me the OD from heroin instead and have a lower chance of survival.

This is a small world............ my wife is a nurse too! Although she
says she is not a "real" nurse since she works in the OR.

The T&R
is gone. The Worldwide Timer Carnival is gone ...a real loss too. They
said that it didn't generate enough revenue, so they shut it down for
good.
I don't get that at all, because tickets weren't cheap and the place was
ALWAYS packed ...best 4th of July fireworks display around, and lots of
fun
things to watch at the show. Saw 2 guys racing through a log with
V8-powered chainsaws last time (do a web search). Lots of fun.

Too bad. That was a lot of fun. But a V8 chainsaw?!?!?!? Gads, I mised
that!

I asked my Dad about those 2x4 houses since he was born and raised around
here as well. He knew all about them. He said that they were built from
low-grade wood that had knots in it, odds & ends that weren't long enough
for other uses, and that kind of thing. He said it worked just fine
except
that running wires and plumbing was more difficult. I've probably seen
one
and just didn't know it.

Good to hear I just wasn't just imagining things.

Depoe Bay Wooden Boat show this weekend.

Cool! Way cute little harbor. To bad I can not duck enough to get my
mast under 101.

We're just having breakfast and
heading over. I've got a friend who's launching a B&B Yacht Designs
Coresound-20 for the first time today and will be christening her
...won't
tell us the name ;-). It's a nice boat and he said it was a great
pleasure
working with Graham and Carla at B&B. Good folks.

I'm working on about boat #4 or #5 (can't recall) right now:
http://www.glacierboats.com/tongass . The web site is way out of date
but
nobody knows ...they can't see inside my shop! I'm getting ready to
paint
the hull and am about 1/3rd done with the cuddy/house.
Brian D


Brian, I went to web site. Your roots are showing. Great looking boat!
She definatly has that salmon dory look. In the 70s there was a guy in
Newport who build modified Oregon/Pacific City dorys for the salmon
fleet. Was that Calkins? Can't remember any moor I've hung around too
many boat shops as a kid. At any rate who ever the builder was he made
some great boats. I use to hang out as much as possible watching. If I
remeber right most were all 1/2 ply sides 3/4" bottoms and framed in
clear fir old growth. I use to see a few over grown with blackberres
during the late 80s and 90s. It was real shame to see so many good
boats just sitting there rotting.

Brian you have a great eye for design. Good to see some folks still
value a fast, seaworthy, and stout boat.

What are thinking about for power options? IO or outboards?

Hope trip to the boat show went well. Stay out of Gracie's Sea Hag!

Bob





"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Brian D wrote:
I shouldn't have used the term "lodgepole" because that's a pine ...no
pine
around here, but plenty of skinny fir, hem, and spruce up in them thar
hills. The miner's cabins that I spoke of were off roads FR-2209 and
FR-2207, which in turn are off the road that goes to the Opal Creek
area
(forgot the name ...but near Mehama), which turns off of Hwy 22 east
of
Salem. I live in Albany but grew up around here and those woods up
there
are my old stompin' grounds. I've worn out a lot of springs driving
up
and
down those roads...

Brian D

Hi Brian:

I know that area reasonable good. East of Salem/Albany is beautiful up
against the hills.
I grew up in Newport. We haed a family friend that drove a log truck
all over that area in the 60s and early 70s. For fun Somtimes I would
ride around with him in the summer.
In fact, have some frinds that run the restraunt at the Stayton golf
course.

Small world.

I was really sad to see the the old T&R truck stop turned into a porn
shop.What a waste.
Does ALbany still have that Timber Festaval? I ahven't heard much about
it in years.

About those 2x4 built houses. I'm surprised you did n't run in to one
over there what with all the stud mills that were in that area.Maybe
that missing village idiot I hear about made his way to Newport and
started building 2x4 houses?

So are you building a boat?

Bob