Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

Was wondering, there're a lot of nice designs for plywood boats out here now
and some look very attractive.

What I wonder is how do they handle in comparison to a similar built hull in
fiberglass.

We had an extensive give and take on this, on a NE fishing board, and
everyone said that "heavy" is one quality thaey all want in a boat.

So ...is it worth looking to designs like Arch Davis or Bateau or (I want to
build my own boat) look into something like a C-Flex design.

Than yiu.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

The argument I hear for a heavy boat is that it handles the rough seas
better. I say it's more a factor of boat design. If you take 2 flat
bottom skiffs into rough water...1 weighing less the the other...the
heavier one will be subject to less tossing about. However, a skiff
wasn't made for rough seas.

A lighter hull will be more fuel efficient, be able to handle more of a
load of people/gear, and cost less in the long run. If you build a
lighter weight hull that is shaped for rough water, you'll do better
than a heavier one.

That's my opinion. That and $4 will get you coffee at Starbucks.


--
Matt Langenfeld
JEM Watercraft
http://jem.e-boat.net/


Jess wrote:
Was wondering, there're a lot of nice designs for plywood boats out here now
and some look very attractive.

What I wonder is how do they handle in comparison to a similar built hull in
fiberglass.

We had an extensive give and take on this, on a NE fishing board, and
everyone said that "heavy" is one quality thaey all want in a boat.

So ...is it worth looking to designs like Arch Davis or Bateau or (I want to
build my own boat) look into something like a C-Flex design.

Than yiu.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

Pound for pound. Wood is much stronger than GRP

"Jess" wrote in message
...
Was wondering, there're a lot of nice designs for plywood boats out here
now
and some look very attractive.

What I wonder is how do they handle in comparison to a similar built hull
in
fiberglass.

We had an extensive give and take on this, on a NE fishing board, and
everyone said that "heavy" is one quality thaey all want in a boat.

So ...is it worth looking to designs like Arch Davis or Bateau or (I want
to
build my own boat) look into something like a C-Flex design.

Than yiu.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:27:19 GMT, "Jess"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does "heavy" refer to wieght or handling?

If you can get the same strength, it would be better to go for the
lighter boat. You can add your own ballast (and most people usually
do!)

Was wondering, there're a lot of nice designs for plywood boats out here now
and some look very attractive.

What I wonder is how do they handle in comparison to a similar built hull in
fiberglass.

We had an extensive give and take on this, on a NE fishing board, and
everyone said that "heavy" is one quality thaey all want in a boat.

So ...is it worth looking to designs like Arch Davis or Bateau or (I want to
build my own boat) look into something like a C-Flex design.

Than yiu.




************************************************** **
I went on a guided tour not long ago.The guide got
us lost. He was a non-compass mentor.........sorry
.........no I'm not.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:24:43 +0000 (UTC), "James"
wrote:

Pound for pound. Wood is much stronger than GRP

Let's update that a little.

In 1970, some wood construction could be stronger than production GRP
(at the same weight) then available.

GRP covers a variety of things nowadays.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


Capsizing under chute, and having the chute rise and fill without tangling, all while Mark and Sally are still behind you

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

Rodney Myrvaagnes ) writes:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:24:43 +0000 (UTC), "James"
wrote:

Pound for pound. Wood is much stronger than GRP

Let's update that a little.

In 1970, some wood construction could be stronger than production GRP
(at the same weight) then available.

GRP covers a variety of things nowadays.

technically it would not be Glass Reinforced Plastic since replacing the
glass with some other fibre seems to be how the weight has been
reduced, also stronger more flexible plastics which allow thinner layups.

however, from what I've read about the heavy vs light question,
heavy is for crusing, light is for racing.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

Jess,
If you are inferring that GRP is lighter than wood, it is the unusual case
if it is. GRP and its derivitives have many advantages, but light weight is
not one. The best example I could give is trying to row an aluminum skiff or
an inflatable in a breese. An architech once said to me "Would you rather
live in a cork or in an ice cube?" Lightweight craft have their place in
racing and carrying. If you don't race and you don't intend to carry it on
your back, weight is on the bottom of your list of important items.
Steve

"Jess" wrote in message
...
Was wondering, there're a lot of nice designs for plywood boats out here
now
and some look very attractive.

What I wonder is how do they handle in comparison to a similar built hull
in
fiberglass.

We had an extensive give and take on this, on a NE fishing board, and
everyone said that "heavy" is one quality thaey all want in a boat.

So ...is it worth looking to designs like Arch Davis or Bateau or (I want
to
build my own boat) look into something like a C-Flex design.

Than yiu.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

If I am rowing a boat in a breeze, _and the windage is the same_, I
would prefer to be rowing the lighter boat. I has less warter
friction.

BTW. Your post compares an _architect's_ statements about _living_ in
corks and icecubes, to illustrate the problems between an inflatable
vs an aluminium boat, to talk about the relative "weights" (densities)
of GRP vs wood, and your apparent aim is to say that GRP is heavier
than wood, if one really thinks about it.

Care to elucidate?

Jess,
If you are inferring that GRP is lighter than wood, it is the unusual case
if it is. GRP and its derivitives have many advantages, but light weight is
not one. The best example I could give is trying to row an aluminum skiff or
an inflatable in a breese. An architech once said to me "Would you rather
live in a cork or in an ice cube?" Lightweight craft have their place in
racing and carrying. If you don't race and you don't intend to carry it on
your back, weight is on the bottom of your list of important items.
Steve


************************************************** **
I went on a guided tour not long ago.The guide got
us lost. He was a non-compass mentor.........sorry
.........no I'm not.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

Old Nick wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

If I am rowing a boat in a breeze, _and the windage is the same_, I
would prefer to be rowing the lighter boat. I has less warter
friction.

BTW. Your post compares an _architect's_ statements about _living_ in
corks and icecubes, to illustrate the problems between an inflatable
vs an aluminium boat, to talk about the relative "weights" (densities)
of GRP vs wood, and your apparent aim is to say that GRP is heavier
than wood, if one really thinks about it.

Care to elucidate?

Jess,
If you are inferring that GRP is lighter than wood, it is the unusual case
if it is. GRP and its derivitives have many advantages, but light weight is
not one. The best example I could give is trying to row an aluminum skiff or
an inflatable in a breese. An architech once said to me "Would you rather
live in a cork or in an ice cube?" Lightweight craft have their place in
racing and carrying. If you don't race and you don't intend to carry it on
your back, weight is on the bottom of your list of important items.
Steve


************************************************** **
I went on a guided tour not long ago.The guide got
us lost. He was a non-compass mentor.........sorry
........no I'm not.

Well, as one who sells boats to folks who want everything, including
light weight I have a comment. I personally think that most want light
boats for many reasons, none of which ususally have anything to do
with water! Thinking of storage or moving and such... Anyway, once you
get on the water, I would think a boat with more weight would have
many advantages over the lightweight junk I build, really, but don't
tell anyone.
Scotty

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

I guess I wasn't very clear. Weight has the advantage in non-planing
(displacement) craft of having a lot of inertia. In the case of rowing a
light craft, the oars will accelerate the craft quickly, but because the
craft has low inertia, it will decelerate just as quickly. This is
especially apparent in a wind. The heavier craft, on the other hand
accelerates slower, but once up to speed, will hold the forward momentum,
while the oars retract for the next stroke. This extra inertia will also
keep the craft on the intended course much better than a light one. We can
use the same example on sail boats when tacking through the wind. The boat
with the most inertia will maintain steerage way for a much longer time,
giving the crew much more time to ready the rig for the next tack. Now, boat
motion, for the same reason, the felt motion will be much less with the
heavier craft. Speed, most people assume that a lighter craft is faster than
a heavier one. This can be the case, because of hull resistance. The more
wetted surface the more drag. The exception that I was illustrating was for
those craft that do not approach the speed where that factor has significant
influence.

Material, GRP is not stiff, in fact it is quite flexible. In order to create
stiffness, it has to be thicker and that adds weight. Strength and stiffness
is often acheived by bonding in other material, like wood. As craft size
becomes larger, this lack of rigidity will add so much more weight to
compensate for the lack of stiffness and strength that the use of other
material like steel will often create craft that is much lighter than GRP.
Steve

"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:58:37 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

If I am rowing a boat in a breeze, _and the windage is the same_, I
would prefer to be rowing the lighter boat. I has less warter
friction.

BTW. Your post compares an _architect's_ statements about _living_ in
corks and icecubes, to illustrate the problems between an inflatable
vs an aluminium boat, to talk about the relative "weights" (densities)
of GRP vs wood, and your apparent aim is to say that GRP is heavier
than wood, if one really thinks about it.

Care to elucidate?

Jess,
If you are inferring that GRP is lighter than wood, it is the unusual
case
if it is. GRP and its derivitives have many advantages, but light weight
is
not one. The best example I could give is trying to row an aluminum skiff
or
an inflatable in a breese. An architech once said to me "Would you rather
live in a cork or in an ice cube?" Lightweight craft have their place in
racing and carrying. If you don't race and you don't intend to carry it
on
your back, weight is on the bottom of your list of important items.
Steve


************************************************** **
I went on a guided tour not long ago.The guide got
us lost. He was a non-compass mentor.........sorry
........no I'm not.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

"Steve Lusardi" ) writes:
I guess I wasn't very clear. Weight has the advantage in non-planing
(displacement) craft of having a lot of inertia. In the case of rowing a
light craft, the oars will accelerate the craft quickly, but because the
craft has low inertia, it will decelerate just as quickly. This is
especially apparent in a wind. The heavier craft, on the other hand
accelerates slower, but once up to speed, will hold the forward momentum,
while the oars retract for the next stroke. This extra inertia will also
keep the craft on the intended course much better than a light one. We can
use the same example on sail boats when tacking through the wind. The boat
with the most inertia will maintain steerage way for a much longer time,
giving the crew much more time to ready the rig for the next tack. Now, boat
motion, for the same reason, the felt motion will be much less with the
heavier craft. Speed, most people assume that a lighter craft is faster than
a heavier one. This can be the case, because of hull resistance. The more
wetted surface the more drag. The exception that I was illustrating was for
those craft that do not approach the speed where that factor has significant
influence.

What the above also means is that light boats are more responsive to the
tiller which is an advantage when racing. The boats accellerate faster.
Light weight makes pleasure sailing small boats interesting rather than
boring. Load the boat up for a family outing and it gains the weight and
momentum mentioned above while losing some of its repsponsiveness. With
the family aboard steadiness is more desireable than responsiveness. If
the boats is not going to be raced it can be heavy. Alas the problem with
sailboats is whenever another sail is within sight you are racing. Sailing
can be boring and comparing speed with other boats makes it less so. The
other thing that helps reduce sailing boredom is trying to figure out where
you are. :)



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

On 17 Apr 2004 12:55:21 GMT, (William R.
Watt) wrote:
however, from what I've read about the heavy vs light question,
heavy is for crusing, light is for racing.

===================================

It's more like comfort versus speed. Light boats have a quicker more
uncomfortable motion going through big seas, and that is amplified by
their faster speed as well.

Light Weight vs Heavy Weight
 

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:27:19 GMT, "Jess"
wrote:

We had an extensive give and take on this, on a NE fishing board, and
everyone said that "heavy" is one quality thaey all want in a boat.

The other points are being discussed elsewhere, so let me take up this
one.

"Heavy" means bigger engines, bigger masts, bigger sails, heavier
scantlings, larger fuel tanks, bigger rudder components, and more,
more, more. For a some improvement in ride in rough conditions, the
owner will pay for a more expensive boat up front, that is more
expensive to operate and more expensive to repair.

The heavy vs. light argument is kind of bogus. I would ask, if you
had a 10-ton boat, would you want it to be 25 feet long or 40 feet
long?

- Rick Tyler

--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian