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#11
posted to rec.boats.building
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Length of a boat
David Manthey wrote:
Is there an official way to determine the length of a boat? Title 46 of the US Code of Federal regulations defines vessel length as the LOA (length overall) which is "a straight-line measurement of the overall length from the foremost part of the vessel to the aftermost part of the vessel, measured parallel to the centerline. Bowsprits, bumpkins, rudders, outboard motor brackets, and similar fittings or attachments, are not to be included in the measurement. Length must be stated in feet and inches." So any bow pulpits or bolted on swim platforms or davits would not be inlcluded. However, swim platforms that are an integrally molded part of a hull would be. That's the length you'd need to state when registering or selling a boat. Harbormasters, otoh, aren't required to use the legal definition...they're concerned with how much dock space your occupies, including anything that extends from the bow or stern. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#12
posted to rec.boats.building
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Length of a boat
Length on Deck (LOD) is the same as LOA when measuring the hull itself, including caps but excluding bowsprits and other extensions (rudders, motors etc). LOA is the term that has been used in more than one way by some folks, but most commonly (and as legally described), it's the same as LOD. For your slip bill, you'd be best off by asking at the marina which definition they use. Brian D "MMC" wrote in message m... Brian, Shouldn't the lenght without bowsprits and boomkins be LOD? Little hard to convince the marina office to just charge for the lenght of the hull : } MMC "Brian D" wrote in message . .. Somebody else here stated that the definition for LOA included spars and bowsprits and what not ...while this definition is truly given by some, the national (US) marine fisheries association and the oceanic racing (FICO) organizations state that LOA does *not* include these other extensions, but just the hull and any bulwarks or caprails that exist. The fisheries folks say to round to the nearest foot, while the racing folks measure exactly. Most companies will overstate a boat's length, always rounding UP to the next highest foot. Brian D "Tom Dacon" Tom-at-dacons-dot-com-nospam wrote in message ... Most people use "length between perpendiculars" (LBP). This is the horizontal distance (parallel to the water's surface) between the closest points on the ends of the boat where you could drop a plumb bob and have it hit the water with the cord touching the boat. This doesn't include spars such as bowsprits and boomkins. You'd use the stem, ordinarily, and the aftermost point on the deck of the boat, including any cap rail but not including extensions like boomkins. That's what most people mean when they say LOD (length on deck). Length overall (LOA) includes the spars, meaning sprits and boomkins, sometimes also called "sparred length". In the old days (before, say, the first world war), the waterline length was what they used when they said how big the boat was. So a 30-footer would have been 30 feet on the waterline. The New York Thirtys were thirty (more or less) on the waterline, the New York Fortys were forty feet, and so on. Without knowing what your boat's profile looks like in detail, it sounds to me from your account like it's 23' 9". But really ... my own boat is 40' 3" between perps. When I bought it I was told it was 41', so that's what I tell people when they ask. When I haul it out in a self-service yard, I say it's just under 40', since a couple of yards I've hauled at in the past used 40' as a dividing line for daily charges. I'd call your bateau a 24-footer. Tom Dacon "David Manthey" wrote in message ... Is there an official way to determine the length of a boat? For instance, I am captain of a wooden bateaux that the builder claimed was 23' long. Measured from the very rear of the sternpost to the very forward of the stem, it is 23' 9". Measured at the height of the gunwale and including the stem and stern posts, the boat is 23' 0'. Exclusive of the stem and stern posts, the boat is 22' 6". The typical 'fullen laden' water line is 21', while the length along the bottom (it is flat bottom, so has no keel), is 19' 6". So, my questions a (a) when telling someone the length of the boat, which number do I use, and (b) has there been any standard on this over time? Thanks much. - David David Manthey Orbitals - Programs - Books - http://www.orbitals.com |
#13
posted to rec.boats.building
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Length of a boat
A big thank you to everyone who answered.
I now know what the legal length of my boat is and the length a marina would charge me for. One of my concerns with length has been in reading historic accounts of bateaux, the length is frequently cited. I guess that this number is whatever the person writing a journal or account was told by the boat men, the transportation booking agency, the builder, etc., and therefore would vary just as the different answers have varied. I have yet to see a historical account of a bateau give any qualifier for a length (no handy LOA or LWL after the number). Again, thanks a bunch. - David David Manthey Orbitals - Programs - Books - http://www.orbitals.com |
#14
posted to rec.boats.building
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Length of a boat
And if you think that's bad, try to figure out what the old books meant when
they spoke of a ship's tonnage. (Sometimes displacement, but often a measure of interior volume excluding machinery spaces.) Roger http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm "David Manthey" wrote in message ... A big thank you to everyone who answered. I now know what the legal length of my boat is and the length a marina would charge me for. One of my concerns with length has been in reading historic accounts of bateaux, the length is frequently cited. I guess that this number is whatever the person writing a journal or account was told by the boat men, the transportation booking agency, the builder, etc., and therefore would vary just as the different answers have varied. I have yet to see a historical account of a bateau give any qualifier for a length (no handy LOA or LWL after the number). Again, thanks a bunch. - David David Manthey Orbitals - Programs - Books - http://www.orbitals.com |
#15
posted to rec.boats.building
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Length of a boat
derbyrm wrote:
And if you think that's bad, try to figure out what the old books meant when they spoke of a ship's tonnage. (Sometimes displacement, but often a measure of interior volume excluding machinery spaces.) A couple of years ago Glen Ashmore posted the best explanation of ship's tonnage I've ever seen..I saved it...here it is: Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry. The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used to describe a ship's size. It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per ton. There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by the USCG for documenting boats. Gross Tonnage - is the internal volume in cubic feet of the vessel minus certain spaces above the main or "tonnage" deck, like stacks and ventilators, which are called "exemptions" . Net Registered Tonnage - is obtained by deducting from the gross tonnage the volume of space that can't be used for paying cargo or passengers, that is to say the space occupied by the engines, the crew's quarter, the stores, etc. Displacement Tonnage - is the actual weight of the water "displaced" by the ship and is usually quoted in long tons of 2240 lbs. Light Displacement Tonnage - is the weight with nothing in it. Loaded Displacement Tonnage - is the fully loaded weight to the maximum and is on her summer draft in salt water. Deadweight Tonnage - is the difference between Light and Loaded Displacement Tonnage....the actual carrying capacity of the vessel. Panama & Suez Canal Tonnages - these are different from the internationally accepted definitions. There used to be a lot of variations between countries and the canal owners thought they were being conned, so they came up with their own definitions. Simplified Measurement System - The USCG decided that all this was way too much for bureaucrats to deal with for yachts so they came up with their own formula: Take the horizontal distance between the outboard ends of the boat not including rudders and bow sprits. Multiply that by the maximum beam outside to outside. Multiply that by the distance from the sheer line not including bulwarks or cap rails to the outside bottom of the hull not including the keel. Add the volume of the deck house/cabin top. Multiply by .5 for sailboats and .67 for power boats. Divide by 100. This will give you the "Gross Tonnage". Net tonnage is 90% of gross for sailboats and 80% for power boats. It should be obvious to anyone who's managed to get this far that your boat's "tonnage" no longer has anything to do with anything real; it only exists in the mind of some government bureaucrat. A bit more maritime trivia: Rummage was the manner in which the wine casks were stored in the hold of the ship and came to refer to the whole ship's cargo. after a voyage any unclaimed and damaged cargo was stacked on the dock beside the boat and offered for sale - a rummage sale. another word of French maritime origin. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304 |
#16
posted to rec.boats.building
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Length of a boat
Peggie Hall wrote:
Glen Ashmore posted the best explanation of ship's tonnage I've ever seen. This question for anybody.... so I'll tack it on here... How does one measure tonnage of a Cathedral hull? ;-) Rick - well, since I've had no takers on my LWL question- -shrug- ;-) |
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