Ken,
Why do you sand first? I never do. I fill fat (that's push fill not pull.
Pull creates the bubbles and concave seams) with Sikaflex 290 and sand
flush. The mess is inevitable, but never an issue if you sand last. I end up
using more caulk, but a lot less labor, no bubbles and no concave seams. Who
said teak decks are cheap. You must tape the bottom of the seam, before you
caulk or you get peel separation under thermal expansion and contraction.
Also, you must clean and prime first. From a personal point of view,
Silicones have no place on a boat period. The stuff seems to go everywhere
and then nothing sticks to anything. You want grief, use silicone. Who said
teak decks are slippery when wet? Only a wet rug maybe better than raw
unfinished teak and a proper boat shoe.
Steve

"chayco" wrote in message
news:ya_uf.21557$tl.19048@pd7tw3no...



"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:VCVuf.1650$Dh.1089@dukeread04...
Need recommendations for seams in the new teak side decks. The
candidates
with estimated material cost a
Boat-Life pourable two part polysulfide $496
DetCo pourable two part polysulfide ???
Maritime Wood Products one part silicone $605
Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 ???
Teak Deck Company silicone $424

The silicones are prepacked in tubes or sausages which makes them a
little
less messy.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com



I would use a polyurethane like Sikaflex 290 DC, it has high UV light
resistance, easy to sand and elastic enough to adhere and expand.
Teak decking systems product is also a polyurethane, I believe. An
established teak deck installer I know uses Teak Decking System product
for
their decking projects.

My advice, reardless of the caulking product you choose, is to finish sand
your decks first and then caulk.

...Ken / island-teak.com

Steve Lusardi wrote:

Who said
teak decks are slippery when wet? .

Maybe because they keep them "pretty" instead of letting them weather to
a nice and rough grey?

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ken,
Why do you sand first? I never do. I fill fat (that's push fill not pull.
Pull creates the bubbles and concave seams) with Sikaflex 290 and sand
flush. The mess is inevitable, but never an issue if you sand last. I end
up
using more caulk, but a lot less labor, no bubbles and no concave seams.
Who
said teak decks are cheap. You must tape the bottom of the seam, before
you
caulk or you get peel separation under thermal expansion and contraction.
Also, you must clean and prime first. From a personal point of view,
Silicones have no place on a boat period. The stuff seems to go everywhere
and then nothing sticks to anything. You want grief, use silicone. Who
said
teak decks are slippery when wet? Only a wet rug maybe better than raw
unfinished teak and a proper boat shoe.
Steve

Hi Steve,

I started out by caulking first and sanding it all later and inevitably some
air bubbles would show up. Really hard to repair and look seamless once they
are evident.
When I was doing the decks of a retro 50's Chriscraft Riveria, look alike, I
was using white Sikaflex and sanding all later....what a mess. The tiny air
bubbles were more pronounced in the white and the belt sander actually
imbeded teak fibers into the white Sikaflex. I reccomend the sanding first
approach now simply because there are no surprises later. You immediately
see the finished deck as you walk away from the job while it sets up.

Ahh, the tape on the bottom of the caulking groove question....I'm of two
minds on that. The elasticity of the caulk is compromised when attached to
three surfaces.
Okay, but I believe the thickness of the decking should be taken into
consideration and I do not know where that point is. On 3/16" decking I do
not use a 'break bond' tape (less wood movement). On 1/2" decking I do. On
3/8" decking....I'm not sure. What is your greatest consideration ?
Prevention of water getting to your subdeck of course. I think there is a
greater chance of occasional 'non adherance' of the caulking material to the
side of the caulking groove than from deck expansion problems on 3/8" minus.
I have found this especially when you run a wee shy on filling the groove
and have to add more later... and also when your 'close up glasses' have
sticky goo on them and you are maybe missing the small details. My primary
concern is that the subdeck is sealed effectively from upper deck water
leakage and in 3/8" minus I don't use a 'break bond' tape ....unless the
client requests it.

...Ken

Ken,
Good answer. My experience is 3 decks, all 1/2" thick, but with 1/4" seam
depth and I cannot say you are wrong or right, but the break bond tape makes
sense to me. One deck I did that did not work well occurred because the teak
shrank too much. Once the teak deck was 2 years old and the deck was
recaulked, there were no more problems, so using teak of correct moisture
level has to be the greatest risk of new decks as it takes a very long time
to cure teak. I am inclined to think your bubble problem was linked to the
calk material you used as opposed to anything else. When doing a large deck,
labor savings is serious money and I think I will still sand last, but
thanks for your explanation anyway.
Steve

"chayco" wrote in message
news:aldvf.251660$ki.204315@pd7tw2no...

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ken,
Why do you sand first? I never do. I fill fat (that's push fill not pull.
Pull creates the bubbles and concave seams) with Sikaflex 290 and sand
flush. The mess is inevitable, but never an issue if you sand last. I end
up
using more caulk, but a lot less labor, no bubbles and no concave seams.
Who
said teak decks are cheap. You must tape the bottom of the seam, before
you
caulk or you get peel separation under thermal expansion and contraction.
Also, you must clean and prime first. From a personal point of view,
Silicones have no place on a boat period. The stuff seems to go
everywhere
and then nothing sticks to anything. You want grief, use silicone. Who
said
teak decks are slippery when wet? Only a wet rug maybe better than raw
unfinished teak and a proper boat shoe.
Steve

Hi Steve,

I started out by caulking first and sanding it all later and inevitably
some
air bubbles would show up. Really hard to repair and look seamless once
they
are evident.
When I was doing the decks of a retro 50's Chriscraft Riveria, look alike,
I
was using white Sikaflex and sanding all later....what a mess. The tiny
air
bubbles were more pronounced in the white and the belt sander actually
imbeded teak fibers into the white Sikaflex. I reccomend the sanding
first
approach now simply because there are no surprises later. You immediately
see the finished deck as you walk away from the job while it sets up.

Ahh, the tape on the bottom of the caulking groove question....I'm of two
minds on that. The elasticity of the caulk is compromised when attached to
three surfaces.
Okay, but I believe the thickness of the decking should be taken into
consideration and I do not know where that point is. On 3/16" decking I do
not use a 'break bond' tape (less wood movement). On 1/2" decking I do.
On
3/8" decking....I'm not sure. What is your greatest consideration ?
Prevention of water getting to your subdeck of course. I think there is a
greater chance of occasional 'non adherance' of the caulking material to
the
side of the caulking groove than from deck expansion problems on 3/8"
minus.
I have found this especially when you run a wee shy on filling the groove
and have to add more later... and also when your 'close up glasses' have
sticky goo on them and you are maybe missing the small details. My primary
concern is that the subdeck is sealed effectively from upper deck water
leakage and in 3/8" minus I don't use a 'break bond' tape ....unless the
client requests it.

...Ken

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:55:52 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Maybe because they keep them "pretty" instead of letting them weather to
a nice and rough grey?

=============================

Exactly. Gray is good, that's what I tell people uncharitable enough
to comment on mine. :-)

There is nothing slipperier than wet cetol. Don't even think of
getting it near a deck.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:55:52 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Maybe because they keep them "pretty" instead of letting them weather to
a nice and rough grey?

=============================

Exactly. Gray is good, that's what I tell people uncharitable enough
to comment on mine. :-)

There is nothing slipperier than wet cetol. Don't even think of
getting it near a deck.


Decks are decks and you learn to appreciate the weathered look of teak,
especially if it keeps you upright and on board.The contrast between well
oiled teak in the proximity of weathered teak helps the deck rats realize
that your weathered teak deck is there out of design not sloth. What do you
use on non deck, but weather exposed teak ?

Cetol , in my opinion, does not bring out the natural luxurious appearance
of teak... but it does last longer than varnish.
Oils can be messy to apply and don't last on the surface very long. I have
been experimenting with a lanolin aerosol product that is easy to apply and
does last longer than 'teak oil' . It does fade in the sun but real quick
and easy to apply. It's called 'fluid film' and sold as a penetrating fluid
similar to WD40 but as it is primarily lanolin it doesn't evaporate like
WD40. After it soaks in, it isn't 'slippery'......but I would not want to
compromise my footing in a challenging moment when the winds are up. I do
use it on some runabout soles and dock trawlers.


....Ken

Agreed on the gray decks. I use Signature Finish's Honey Teak on my
non-deck exterior teak. A little hard to apply, but worth it in
appearance and longevity once on. All you have to do is put a coat or
two of clear on annually after roughing up the surface with a
Scotchbrite pad. See: http://www.fabulainc.com/

chayco wrote:
Decks are decks and you learn to appreciate the weathered look of teak,
especially if it keeps you upright and on board.

And when it doesn't, well, you stick tradition anyway


Cetol , in my opinion, does not bring out the natural luxurious appearance
of teak...

Agreed, although the new stuff looks better than the 'orange
jello'.


.... but it does last longer than varnish.

I'm not so sure. I've owned a number of boats with
brightwork, including some that were all wood, and one
spectacular Swedish beauty with varnished topsides (that was
a long time ago). Tried a number of 'varnish substitutes'
but none were any significant time saving, especially in the
South where everything gets heavy UV.

Our current boat has *way* more brightwork than I wanted,
but my wife promised to take care of it... she learned
varnish work pretty well, and up thru last spring kept it in
beautiful shape. You could read a newspaper in the
reflection in the caprail.


Oils can be messy to apply and don't last on the surface very long. I have
been experimenting with a lanolin aerosol product that is easy to apply and
does last longer than 'teak oil' . It does fade in the sun but real quick
and easy to apply. It's called 'fluid film' and sold as a penetrating fluid
similar to WD40 but as it is primarily lanolin it doesn't evaporate like
WD40. After it soaks in, it isn't 'slippery'......but I would not want to
compromise my footing in a challenging moment when the winds are up. I do
use it on some runabout soles and dock trawlers.


Sounds interesting, where do you get it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

chayco wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:55:52 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Maybe because they keep them "pretty" instead of letting them
weather to a nice and rough grey?

=============================

Exactly. Gray is good, that's what I tell people uncharitable enough
to comment on mine. :-)

There is nothing slipperier than wet cetol. Don't even think of
getting it near a deck.


Decks are decks and you learn to appreciate the weathered look of
teak, especially if it keeps you upright and on board.The contrast
between well oiled teak in the proximity of weathered teak helps the
deck rats realize that your weathered teak deck is there out of
design not sloth. What do you use on non deck, but weather exposed
teak ?

It's been a long time since I've had *any* teak save the dashboard I
made a dozen years ago for my '73 Fiat Spyder.

When I had a sizeable sailboat I had considerable besides the deck but
it was "utility" teak...all the blocks (rope stropped) and their sheaves
were teak as were the belaying pin handles, pin rails and ratlines. I
made all and after doing so tossed them in a bucket of boiled linseed
oil for a day or two. Five years later they showed little weathering,
no grey; ten years later they were still in decent shape. Amazed the
hell out of me. Wasn't a pretty finish though...

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
chayco wrote:



Oils can be messy to apply and don't last on the surface very long. I
have
been experimenting with a lanolin aerosol product that is easy to apply
and
does last longer than 'teak oil' . It does fade in the sun but real
quick
and easy to apply. It's called 'fluid film' and sold as a penetrating
fluid
similar to WD40 but as it is primarily lanolin it doesn't evaporate like
WD40. After it soaks in, it isn't 'slippery'......but I would not want
to
compromise my footing in a challenging moment when the winds are up. I
do
use it on some runabout soles and dock trawlers.


Sounds interesting, where do you get it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


http://www.nlsproducts.ca/ff_e.html

...Ken